filthy animal Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 4 hours ago, Provost said: This is totally classic… it is silly to be mentioning mistakes (that are still impacting the team) from a GM who left 2.5 years ago… instead we should really be dwelling on mistakes from a GM who left more than 10 years ago and the players and contracts from his era are retired and long gone. Yeah its absolutely hilarious. Anthony calls out Canuck73 on his hindsight being 20/20 on Bennings mishaps and yet Anthony completely lays out Tanev, Markstrom and Toffoli's careers post Canucks lol. Its buffoonery at its finest If everybody's partners were as devoted as Anthony is to Jim Benning, mixed in with that Hawk Tuah girl, theyd put divorce lawyers out of business 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combover Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 Might aswell retire he’s won every thing and the team he will be resign with will be competing for lottery picks. Why risk his heath when he’s been concussed so many times just to lose. Or sign with a club that has a chance to win. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmaster Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 1 hour ago, Combover said: Might aswell retire he’s won every thing and the team he will be resign with will be competing for lottery picks. Why risk his heath when he’s been concussed so many times just to lose. Or sign with a club that has a chance to win. Would be so good if we got him for a couple years. DeBrusk Miller Brock Crosby Petey Heinen That would be a wicked top 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Tim Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 17 minutes ago, Grandmaster said: Would be so good if we got him for a couple years. DeBrusk Miller Brock Crosby Petey Heinen That would be a wicked top 6 Crosby on the wing no chance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmaster Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 1 hour ago, Jim Tim said: Crosby on the wing no chance We will never know… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 (edited) On 7/9/2024 at 11:23 AM, AnthonyG said: Yes!!! then Tkachuk comes in a has a direct impact on the standings like he did in Calgary. Then we drop in the 2017 draft 10 spots like Calgary did and we take Erik Brannstrom instead of Pettersson and then your user name is Erik Brannstrom instead of Elias Pettersson (thank god) then the following year we either trade our picks away to get whoever instead of keeping our pick and not getting Hughes or we keep our picks and draft 11th because Calgary went up in the draft 4 spots from the previous season ZOMG THEY WERE CLIMBING UP THATS AMAZING THEY LOOK LIKE THEY ARE TRUE CUP CONTENDERS IN NO TIME!! So after drafting 15th we would then draft 11th in 2018 which funny enough is directly in the middle of Hughes at 7, Denisenko at 15 and we would take Wahlstrom at 11th and have the greatest blue line of all time ZOMG and then to complete our forward group we would trade Tkachuk because he tells us to and we land Huberdeau and Weegar and our blue line yet again GETS BETTER ZOMG THIS IS SO EXCITING!!! So then we sign Huberdeau to that 11mil deal, better yet we sign him to that Loui Eriksson 6x6 deal during rebuilding years that did nothing to hurt our far from any realistic chance hopes of winning a cup and then we watch Florida win the cup and we’re complete!! We did it!! We used 20/20 vision successfully!! Holy fuck we are soooooo sooooooooo smrt! seriously move on it’s been nearly 10 fucking years. And the best part of not picking Juolei IS THAT OUR CORE IS STILL INTACT AND NOW CONTENDING, how is Calgary doin???? How’d that Tkachuk selection work out??? How far have they been in the playoffs? MT didn't play his draft plus one. And doubt his 13 goals would have made a massive difference in 2016-2017. A very good chance, EP would have still been around even if we did move up a spot or two. Weren't we third worst team in the league, or It think maybe second worst (bumped from the lotto), we weren't turning the corner yet that's for sure. One of the worst rosters all-time, Canuck's roster (2016-2017). Maybe we draft 7, he's still there. Only team remotely interested in was the NYRs. And he wasn't their only player. As far as him wanting to stay, who knows. We should be worried QHs won't want to stay in that case. QHs, get the sarcasm, but do agree it would be MT and EP versus OJ, EP and QHs. OJ is already considered, one of the biggest busts of the 2010's (draft picks) and Canucks too. Should have paid more attention to what he was doing with a loaded London team, and less time focusing on Finland and the WJs. All 3 of those guys range from total bust and disappointment (Puljarivi, Laine, OJ). BTW, missing on a 5 is hard to do if you draft BPA, instead of an organizational slant. Looking to replace Edler was JB's hope i'm sure. Too bad he didn't focus on Chychrun or Sergavhev, could have traded down and got either no problem (must have really really wanted OJ, for sure would have got one of the 3). A year before, Chycrhun versus Mathew's was a bit of a thing, injures derailed his draft season. That's what a pedigree looks like though. I'm not a fan of the WJ's as far as how much weight is put in a short tournament and draft position. In the future, those 3 could be used as a warning signs. JB made up for some of his whiffs, with the JT Miller trade. That was a home run. Drafting for sure isn't the sole method to build a team. Hindsight is 50/50. So the saying goes. Personally felt JB was average. It's mostly his core today though. Thanks god he's not around to muck the cap up and make bad decisions. His hail Mary, OEL. What a mess that caused. Edited July 20 by IBatch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 (edited) 9 hours ago, IBatch said: MT didn't play his draft plus one. And doubt his 13 goals would have made a massive difference in 2016-2017. A very good chance, EP would have still been around even if we did move up a spot or two. Weren't we third worst team in the league, or It think maybe second worst (bumped from the lotto), we weren't turning the corner yet that's for sure. One of the worst rosters all-time, Canuck's roster (2016-2017). Maybe we draft 7, he's still there. Only team remotely interested in was the NYRs. And he wasn't their only player. As far as him wanting to stay, who knows. We should be worried QHs won't want to stay in that case. QHs, get the sarcasm, but do agree it would be MT and EP versus OJ, EP and QHs. OJ is already considered, one of the biggest busts of the 2010's (draft picks) and Canucks too. Should have paid more attention to what he was doing with a loaded London team, and less time focusing on Finland and the WJs. All 3 of those guys range from total bust and disappointment (Puljarivi, Laine, OJ). BTW, missing on a 5 is hard to do if you draft BPA, instead of an organizational slant. Looking to replace Edler was JB's hope i'm sure. Too bad he didn't focus on Chychrun or Sergavhev, could have traded down and got either no problem (must have really really wanted OJ, for sure would have got one of the 3). A year before, Chycrhun versus Mathew's was a bit of a thing, injures derailed his draft season. That's what a pedigree looks like though. I'm not a fan of the WJ's as far as how much weight is put in a short tournament and draft position. In the future, those 3 could be used as a warning signs. JB made up for some of his whiffs, with the JT Miller trade. That was a home run. Drafting for sure isn't the sole method to build a team. Hindsight is 50/50. So the saying goes. Personally felt JB was average. It's mostly his core today though. Thanks god he's not around to muck the cap up and make bad decisions. His hail Mary, OEL. What a mess that caused. Tkachuk indeed did play immediately after being drafted yes we were 28th that season and we would have dropped in the draft several spots had we added another 10+ goals to our roster. MT scored 13, but overall he had a direct hand in 35 more goals and that’s just ones he registered a point on. There’s also penalties drawn by that rat bag, there’s more to it than just 13 goals. 2016-17 we were nowhere near turning the corner, it wasn’t until 2018-19, Petterssons first season that we saw a franchise changing player. Which we followed that up with Hughes and Miller in 2019-20. JB spun this organization and rebuild around on its head. If you look at the 2015-16 CGY roster and then look at the 2016-17 roster, you'll see that Tkachuk is really the only big addition to the team, which he had a direct impact on standings. That could have certainly led us to losing Pettersson and a very good chance of it. 2015-16 Regular Season Playoffs Vitals # Player Name Pos. GP G A Pts PIM +/- GP G A Pts PIM Birthplace Age Totals 229 407 636 740 13 Johnny Gaudreau L 79 30 48 78 20 4 -- -- -- -- -- NJ: Salem 22 23 Sean Monahan C 81 27 36 63 18 -6 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Brampton 20 5 Mark Giordano D 82 21 35 56 54 -5 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Toronto 31 11 Mikael Backlund C 82 21 26 47 28 10 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Vasteras 26 7 T.J. Brodie D 70 6 39 45 18 4 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Chatham 25 8 Joe Colborne C 73 19 25 44 27 -9 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: Calgary 25 27 Dougie Hamilton D 82 12 31 43 46 -14 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Toronto 22 93 Sam Bennett C 77 18 18 36 37 -11 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Holland Landing 19 24 Jiri Hudler 1 R 53 10 25 35 17 -1 -- -- -- -- -- Czech Rep.: Olomouc 31 67 Michael Frolik R 64 15 17 32 24 1 -- -- -- -- -- Czech Rep.: Kladno 27 6 Dennis Wideman D 51 2 17 19 30 -9 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Kitchener 32 79 Micheal Ferland L 71 4 14 18 45 -15 -- -- -- -- -- MAN: Swan River 23 18 Matthew Stajan C 80 6 11 17 52 -4 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Mississauga 31 19 David Jones 2 R 59 9 6 15 10 -8 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Guelph 31 4 Kris Russell 3 D 51 4 11 15 8 -4 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: Caroline 28 16 Josh Jooris R 59 4 9 13 39 -1 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Burlington 25 29 Deryk Engelland D 69 3 9 12 54 7 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: Edmonton 33 60 Markus Granlund 4 C 31 4 3 7 8 -1 -- -- -- -- -- Finland: Oulu 22 17 Lance Bouma L 44 2 5 7 31 -6 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: Provost 25 3 Jyrki Jokipakka 5 D 18 0 6 6 8 3 -- -- -- -- -- Finland: Tampere 24 21 Mason Raymond L 29 4 1 5 8 -3 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: Cochrane 29 33 Jakub Nakladal D 27 2 3 5 6 -5 -- -- -- -- -- Czech Rep.: Hradec Kralove 27 52 Brandon Bollig L 54 2 2 4 103 -10 -- -- -- -- -- MO: St. Charles 28 49 Hunter Shinkaruk 6 L 7 2 1 3 2 -4 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: Calgary 20 64 Garnet Hathaway R 14 0 3 3 31 -1 -- -- -- -- -- FL: Naples 23 25 Freddie Hamilton C 4 1 1 2 0 1 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Toronto 23 50 Patrick Sieloff D 1 1 0 1 2 1 -- -- -- -- -- MI: Ann Arbor 21 65 Turner Elson C 1 0 1 1 0 1 -- -- -- -- -- BC: New Westminster 22 22 Drew Shore C 2 0 1 1 2 0 -- -- -- -- -- CO: Denver 24 26 Tyler Wotherspoon D 11 0 1 1 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- BC: Burnaby 22 57 Derek Grant C 15 0 1 1 2 -7 -- -- -- -- -- BC: Abbotsford 25 31 Karri Ramo G 37 0 1 1 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- Finland: Asikkala 29 58 Oliver Kylington D 1 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Stockholm 18 51 Kenny Agostino L 2 0 0 0 0 -2 -- -- -- -- -- NJ: Morristown 23 28 Emile Poirier L 2 0 0 0 2 -1 -- -- -- -- -- PQ: Montreal 20 32 Niklas Backstrom G 4 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- Finland: Helsinki 37 61 Brett Kulak D 8 0 0 0 0 -2 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: Edmonton 21 15 Ladislav Smid D 22 0 0 0 6 -7 -- -- -- -- -- Czech Rep.: Frydlant 29 37 Joni Ortio G 22 0 0 0 2 0 -- -- -- -- -- Finland: Turku 24 1 Jonas Hiller G 26 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- Switzerland: Felben Wellhausen 33 2016-17 Regular Season Playoffs Vitals # Player Name Pos. GP G A Pts PIM +/- GP G A Pts PIM Birthplace Age Totals 222 396 618 940 13 Johnny Gaudreau L 72 18 43 61 4 -7 4 0 2 2 0 NJ: Salem 23 23 Sean Monahan C 82 27 31 58 20 -1 4 4 1 5 0 ONT: Brampton 21 11 Mikael Backlund C 81 22 31 53 36 9 4 1 2 3 0 Sweden: Vasteras 27 27 Dougie Hamilton D 81 13 37 50 64 12 4 0 1 1 8 ONT: Toronto 23 19 Matthew Tkachuk L 76 13 35 48 105 14 4 0 0 0 4 AZ: Scottsdale 18 67 Michael Frolik R 82 17 27 44 58 13 4 0 1 1 0 Czech Rep.: Kladno 28 5 Mark Giordano D 81 12 27 39 59 22 4 0 1 1 2 ONT: Toronto 32 10 Kris Versteeg R 69 15 22 37 46 -3 4 1 3 4 4 ALTA: Lethbridge 30 7 T.J. Brodie D 82 6 30 36 24 -16 4 0 4 4 2 ONT: Chatham 26 93 Sam Bennett C 81 13 13 26 75 -16 4 2 0 2 4 ONT: Holland Landing 20 79 Micheal Ferland L 76 15 10 25 50 -1 4 0 0 0 7 MAN: Swan River 24 36 Troy Brouwer R 74 13 12 25 31 -11 4 0 2 2 0 BC: Vancouver 31 39 Alex Chiasson R 81 12 12 24 46 -6 4 0 0 0 2 PQ: Montreal 25 18 Matthew Stajan C 81 6 17 23 40 3 3 0 0 0 0 ONT: Mississauga 32 6 Dennis Wideman D 57 5 13 18 32 -6 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Kitchener 33 29 Deryk Engelland D 81 4 12 16 85 2 4 0 0 0 2 ALTA: Edmonton 34 17 Lance Bouma L 61 3 4 7 35 -2 3 0 0 0 2 ALTA: Provost 26 26 Michael Stone 1 D 19 2 4 6 20 5 4 1 0 1 0 MAN: Winnipeg 26 3 23 Jyrki Jokipakka 2 D 38 1 5 6 12 -3 -- -- -- -- -- Finland: Tampere 25 64 Garnet Hathaway R 26 1 4 5 44 0 -- -- -- -- -- FL: Naples 24 20 27 Curtis Lazar 3 C 4 1 2 3 0 2 1 0 0 0 0 BC: Salmon Arm 21 61 Brett Kulak D 21 0 3 3 12 -3 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: Edmonton 22 25 Freddie Hamilton C 26 2 0 2 8 -3 1 0 0 0 0 ONT: Toronto 24 44 Matt Bartkowski D 24 1 1 2 26 -4 4 0 0 0 0 PA: Pittsburgh 28 49 Hunter Shinkaruk L 7 0 1 1 2 -3 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: Calgary 21 32 Jon Gillies G 1 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- NH: Concord 22 54 Rasmus Andersson D 1 0 0 0 0 -1 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Malmo 19 77 Mark Jankowski C 1 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Hamilton 21 David Rittich G 1 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- Czech Rep.: Jihlava 24 8 Nicklas Grossmann D 3 0 0 0 2 -4 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Stockholm 31 Tyler Wotherspoon D 4 0 0 0 0 -2 -- -- -- -- -- BC: Burnaby 23 16 Linden Vey R 4 0 0 0 0 -2 -- -- -- -- -- SASK: Wakaw 25 31 Chad Johnson G 36 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 SASK: Saskatoon 30 1 Brian Elliott G 49 0 0 0 4 0 4 0 0 0 0 ONT: Newmarket 31 Going from what he inherited in 2014 to what we had in 2019-20 with ZERO top 3 picks and zero grade A prospects in the cupboards. That’s truly remarkable. It’s only COVID that fucked us after 2020. This upcoming seasons new cap is what was announced to be in 2020-21…… just think…. JB lost a massive cap increase that forced him no other choice but to take a step back miss on a 5th overall is hard to do? Michael Dal Colle Barret Hayton Alex Turcotte Jake Sanderson That’s 4 players at 5th overall that hasn’t exactly panned out that were all BPA. Hey how about the 2019 Draft? All for hockey related reasons too, not health like Juolevi. If Juolevi (who didn’t pan out LARGELY due to health reasons) was a bad pick, then by those standards, Luc Bourdon was a bad pick. both unforeseeable circumstances that were unrelated to hockey. OJ multiple knee and back injuries/surgeries/rehabs plus in 2020-21 he was on our opening night roster, which then he got hit with COVID much like everyone else, except he was hit harder than everyone except Sutter. Juolevi who had clear conditioning problems the following season, could have been affected by a virus that impacts the respiratory system as it did to Sutter and his career. He was on our opening night roster in 2020-21 and was looking stable. Also everyone can blame JB all they want for mucking up the cap…, but Horvat, Boeser, Pettersson, Hughes, Demko’s deals all say otherwise. Who really fucked the cap was COVID. Name the biggest most important piece we lost due to JBs “poor cap management” not only that the guy got hit with a cap recapture penalty. Like just think about that…. Cap recapture came off and went straight into a flattened cap that had a projected cap increase to 84-88mil, that’s 7-11mil of cap he never had an opportunity to use. Yes every other team did too, but not as many had contract situations he had that very offseason it froze and no one else had a 3mil cap recapture penalty. Markstrom? lol 6mil anchor Tanev? 4.5mil cripple Toffoli? 4.25mil 1 way player who’s now on his…. 4th team since walking? seems like JB made the wise choices to let the ones walk who we should have let walk. His drafting is better than ANY GM before him, better than anyone with the same draft cards dealt in any of the last 20 years without a top 3 pick. No generational 1OA… nothing to really give him a true advantage. so on the old forums I had put together a draft breakdown of JB vs the entire league. He was top 7 and now after a few years since that was done, I can guarantee you he is most likely top 3 behind TOR and EDM if not top 5 and he hasn’t had NEARLY the same draft advantages or monster free agent signings like Tavares to impact point totals produced by draft picks. I will show you a table later of just how lucky we are we had JB. JB got fucked by COVID, the OEL trade is nowhere near as devastating as the OEL buyout and the worst part of all, OEL bounced right back and won a cup. Meanwhile PA signed deadweight on Mikheyev during a competitive window, sold rock bottom low on Kuzmenko, sold a fuckton for Lindholm and Zadorov and at the end of it we have what to show for all those trades? Nothing. We mainly competetive again next season thanks to everything that JB put on this roster/organization Miller Pettersson Hughes Demko Boeser Garland Myers Silovs Hoglander I will show you a list later tonight on drafting position. edit: replicating JB's 1st round draft position from 2003 the strongest draft to 2016 Tkachuks draft. Here is what group of players you would have if you selected 6th and 24th in the same draft, 23rd the following, 5th, 5th, 7th and 10th. 2003-2008 6th Michalek 24th Richards 23rd Mezjaros 5th Price 5th Kessel 7th Voracek 10th Hodgson 2004-2009 6th Montoyoa 24th Chucko 23rd Bergfors 5th Kessel 5th Alzner 7th C Wilson 10th Paajarvi 2005-2010 6th Brule 24th Oshi 23rd Varlamov 5th Alzner 5th L Schenn 7th Kadri 10th McIlrath 2006-2011 6th Brassard 24th Persson 23rd Blum 5th L Schenn 5th B Schenn 7th J Skinner 10th Brodin 2007-2012 6th Gagner 24th Backlund 23rd Cuma 5th B Schenn 5th Niederreiter 7th Scheifele 10th Koekkoek 2008-2013 6th Filatov 24th Tedenby 23rd Erixon 5th Niederreiter 5th R Strome 7th Dumba 10th Nichuskin 2009-2014 6th OEL 24th Johansson 23rd Pysyk 5th Strome 5th Reilly 7th Nurse 10th Ritchie 2010-2015 6th Connolly 24th K Hayes 23rd Morrow 5th Reilly 5th E Lindholm 7th Fleury 10th Rantanen 2011-2016 6th Zibenejad 24th Puempel 23rd Matheson 5th E Lindholm 5th Dal Colle 7th Provorov 10th Jost 2012-2017 6th H Lindholm 24th M Subban 23rd Burakovsky 5th Dal Colle 5th Hanifin 7th Keller 10th Tippett 2013-2018 6th Monahan 24th Shinkaruk 23rd Bleackley 5th Hanifin 5th Juolevi 7th L Andersson 10th Bouchard 2015-2019 6th Zacha 24th Koneckny 23rd Borgstrom 5th Pettersson 5th Hayton 7th Cozens 10th Perfetti 2016-2020 6th Tkachuk 24th M Jones 23rd Joseph 5th Hayton 5th Turcotte 7th Holtz 10th Boucher How many of those groups would you select over Virtanen McCann Boeser Juolevi Pettersson Hughes Podkolzin It goes to show not every pick in each spot works out or is always going to be the BPA or a homerun. How many of those groups have multiple elite players? Not trying to come off as bias or anything, but I'm taking the group of draft picks that has Pettersson AND Hughes over any of those other groups. Edited July 20 by AnthonyG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 3 hours ago, AnthonyG said: Tkachuk indeed did play immediately after being drafted yes we were 28th that season and we would have dropped in the draft several spots had we added another 10+ goals to our roster. MT scored 13, but overall he had a direct hand in 35 more goals and that’s just ones he registered a point on. There’s also penalties drawn by that rat bag, there’s more to it than just 13 goals. 2016-17 we were nowhere near turning the corner, it wasn’t until 2018-19, Petterssons first season that we saw a franchise changing player. Which we followed that up with Hughes and Miller in 2019-20. JB spun this organization and rebuild around on its head. If you look at the 2015-16 CGY roster and then look at the 2016-17 roster, you'll see that Tkachuk is really the only big addition to the team, which he had a direct impact on standings. That could have certainly led us to losing Pettersson and a very good chance of it. 2015-16 Regular Season Playoffs Vitals # Player Name Pos. GP G A Pts PIM +/- GP G A Pts PIM Birthplace Age Totals 229 407 636 740 13 Johnny Gaudreau L 79 30 48 78 20 4 -- -- -- -- -- NJ: Salem 22 23 Sean Monahan C 81 27 36 63 18 -6 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Brampton 20 5 Mark Giordano D 82 21 35 56 54 -5 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Toronto 31 11 Mikael Backlund C 82 21 26 47 28 10 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Vasteras 26 7 T.J. Brodie D 70 6 39 45 18 4 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Chatham 25 8 Joe Colborne C 73 19 25 44 27 -9 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: Calgary 25 27 Dougie Hamilton D 82 12 31 43 46 -14 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Toronto 22 93 Sam Bennett C 77 18 18 36 37 -11 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Holland Landing 19 24 Jiri Hudler 1 R 53 10 25 35 17 -1 -- -- -- -- -- Czech Rep.: Olomouc 31 67 Michael Frolik R 64 15 17 32 24 1 -- -- -- -- -- Czech Rep.: Kladno 27 6 Dennis Wideman D 51 2 17 19 30 -9 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Kitchener 32 79 Micheal Ferland L 71 4 14 18 45 -15 -- -- -- -- -- MAN: Swan River 23 18 Matthew Stajan C 80 6 11 17 52 -4 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Mississauga 31 19 David Jones 2 R 59 9 6 15 10 -8 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Guelph 31 4 Kris Russell 3 D 51 4 11 15 8 -4 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: Caroline 28 16 Josh Jooris R 59 4 9 13 39 -1 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Burlington 25 29 Deryk Engelland D 69 3 9 12 54 7 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: Edmonton 33 60 Markus Granlund 4 C 31 4 3 7 8 -1 -- -- -- -- -- Finland: Oulu 22 17 Lance Bouma L 44 2 5 7 31 -6 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: Provost 25 3 Jyrki Jokipakka 5 D 18 0 6 6 8 3 -- -- -- -- -- Finland: Tampere 24 21 Mason Raymond L 29 4 1 5 8 -3 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: Cochrane 29 33 Jakub Nakladal D 27 2 3 5 6 -5 -- -- -- -- -- Czech Rep.: Hradec Kralove 27 52 Brandon Bollig L 54 2 2 4 103 -10 -- -- -- -- -- MO: St. Charles 28 49 Hunter Shinkaruk 6 L 7 2 1 3 2 -4 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: Calgary 20 64 Garnet Hathaway R 14 0 3 3 31 -1 -- -- -- -- -- FL: Naples 23 25 Freddie Hamilton C 4 1 1 2 0 1 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Toronto 23 50 Patrick Sieloff D 1 1 0 1 2 1 -- -- -- -- -- MI: Ann Arbor 21 65 Turner Elson C 1 0 1 1 0 1 -- -- -- -- -- BC: New Westminster 22 22 Drew Shore C 2 0 1 1 2 0 -- -- -- -- -- CO: Denver 24 26 Tyler Wotherspoon D 11 0 1 1 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- BC: Burnaby 22 57 Derek Grant C 15 0 1 1 2 -7 -- -- -- -- -- BC: Abbotsford 25 31 Karri Ramo G 37 0 1 1 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- Finland: Asikkala 29 58 Oliver Kylington D 1 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Stockholm 18 51 Kenny Agostino L 2 0 0 0 0 -2 -- -- -- -- -- NJ: Morristown 23 28 Emile Poirier L 2 0 0 0 2 -1 -- -- -- -- -- PQ: Montreal 20 32 Niklas Backstrom G 4 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- Finland: Helsinki 37 61 Brett Kulak D 8 0 0 0 0 -2 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: Edmonton 21 15 Ladislav Smid D 22 0 0 0 6 -7 -- -- -- -- -- Czech Rep.: Frydlant 29 37 Joni Ortio G 22 0 0 0 2 0 -- -- -- -- -- Finland: Turku 24 1 Jonas Hiller G 26 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- Switzerland: Felben Wellhausen 33 2016-17 Regular Season Playoffs Vitals # Player Name Pos. GP G A Pts PIM +/- GP G A Pts PIM Birthplace Age Totals 222 396 618 940 13 Johnny Gaudreau L 72 18 43 61 4 -7 4 0 2 2 0 NJ: Salem 23 23 Sean Monahan C 82 27 31 58 20 -1 4 4 1 5 0 ONT: Brampton 21 11 Mikael Backlund C 81 22 31 53 36 9 4 1 2 3 0 Sweden: Vasteras 27 27 Dougie Hamilton D 81 13 37 50 64 12 4 0 1 1 8 ONT: Toronto 23 19 Matthew Tkachuk L 76 13 35 48 105 14 4 0 0 0 4 AZ: Scottsdale 18 67 Michael Frolik R 82 17 27 44 58 13 4 0 1 1 0 Czech Rep.: Kladno 28 5 Mark Giordano D 81 12 27 39 59 22 4 0 1 1 2 ONT: Toronto 32 10 Kris Versteeg R 69 15 22 37 46 -3 4 1 3 4 4 ALTA: Lethbridge 30 7 T.J. Brodie D 82 6 30 36 24 -16 4 0 4 4 2 ONT: Chatham 26 93 Sam Bennett C 81 13 13 26 75 -16 4 2 0 2 4 ONT: Holland Landing 20 79 Micheal Ferland L 76 15 10 25 50 -1 4 0 0 0 7 MAN: Swan River 24 36 Troy Brouwer R 74 13 12 25 31 -11 4 0 2 2 0 BC: Vancouver 31 39 Alex Chiasson R 81 12 12 24 46 -6 4 0 0 0 2 PQ: Montreal 25 18 Matthew Stajan C 81 6 17 23 40 3 3 0 0 0 0 ONT: Mississauga 32 6 Dennis Wideman D 57 5 13 18 32 -6 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Kitchener 33 29 Deryk Engelland D 81 4 12 16 85 2 4 0 0 0 2 ALTA: Edmonton 34 17 Lance Bouma L 61 3 4 7 35 -2 3 0 0 0 2 ALTA: Provost 26 26 Michael Stone 1 D 19 2 4 6 20 5 4 1 0 1 0 MAN: Winnipeg 26 3 23 Jyrki Jokipakka 2 D 38 1 5 6 12 -3 -- -- -- -- -- Finland: Tampere 25 64 Garnet Hathaway R 26 1 4 5 44 0 -- -- -- -- -- FL: Naples 24 20 27 Curtis Lazar 3 C 4 1 2 3 0 2 1 0 0 0 0 BC: Salmon Arm 21 61 Brett Kulak D 21 0 3 3 12 -3 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: Edmonton 22 25 Freddie Hamilton C 26 2 0 2 8 -3 1 0 0 0 0 ONT: Toronto 24 44 Matt Bartkowski D 24 1 1 2 26 -4 4 0 0 0 0 PA: Pittsburgh 28 49 Hunter Shinkaruk L 7 0 1 1 2 -3 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: Calgary 21 32 Jon Gillies G 1 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- NH: Concord 22 54 Rasmus Andersson D 1 0 0 0 0 -1 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Malmo 19 77 Mark Jankowski C 1 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Hamilton 21 David Rittich G 1 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- Czech Rep.: Jihlava 24 8 Nicklas Grossmann D 3 0 0 0 2 -4 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Stockholm 31 Tyler Wotherspoon D 4 0 0 0 0 -2 -- -- -- -- -- BC: Burnaby 23 16 Linden Vey R 4 0 0 0 0 -2 -- -- -- -- -- SASK: Wakaw 25 31 Chad Johnson G 36 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 SASK: Saskatoon 30 1 Brian Elliott G 49 0 0 0 4 0 4 0 0 0 0 ONT: Newmarket 31 Going from what he inherited in 2014 to what we had in 2019-20 with ZERO top 3 picks and zero grade A prospects in the cupboards. That’s truly remarkable. It’s only COVID that fucked us after 2020. This upcoming seasons new cap is what was announced to be in 2020-21…… just think…. JB lost a massive cap increase that forced him no other choice but to take a step back miss on a 5th overall is hard to do? Michael Dal Colle Barret Hayton Alex Turcotte Jake Sanderson That’s 4 players at 5th overall that hasn’t exactly panned out that were all BPA. Hey how about the 2019 Draft? All for hockey related reasons too, not health like Juolevi. If Juolevi (who didn’t pan out LARGELY due to health reasons) was a bad pick, then by those standards, Luc Bourdon was a bad pick. both unforeseeable circumstances that were unrelated to hockey. OJ multiple knee and back injuries/surgeries/rehabs plus in 2020-21 he was on our opening night roster, which then he got hit with COVID much like everyone else, except he was hit harder than everyone except Sutter. Juolevi who had clear conditioning problems the following season, could have been affected by a virus that impacts the respiratory system as it did to Sutter and his career. He was on our opening night roster in 2020-21 and was looking stable. Also everyone can blame JB all they want for mucking up the cap…, but Horvat, Boeser, Pettersson, Hughes, Demko’s deals all say otherwise. Who really fucked the cap was COVID. Name the biggest most important piece we lost due to JBs “poor cap management” not only that the guy got hit with a cap recapture penalty. Like just think about that…. Cap recapture came off and went straight into a flattened cap that had a projected cap increase to 84-88mil, that’s 7-11mil of cap he never had an opportunity to use. Yes every other team did too, but not as many had contract situations he had that very offseason it froze and no one else had a 3mil cap recapture penalty. Markstrom? lol 6mil anchor Tanev? 4.5mil cripple Toffoli? 4.25mil 1 way player who’s now on his…. 4th team since walking? seems like JB made the wise choices to let the ones walk who we should have let walk. His drafting is better than ANY GM before him, better than anyone with the same draft cards dealt in any of the last 20 years without a top 3 pick. No generational 1OA… nothing to really give him a true advantage. so on the old forums I had put together a draft breakdown of JB vs the entire league. He was top 7 and now after a few years since that was done, I can guarantee you he is most likely top 3 behind TOR and EDM if not top 5 and he hasn’t had NEARLY the same draft advantages or monster free agent signings like Tavares to impact point totals produced by draft picks. I will show you a table later of just how lucky we are we had JB. JB got fucked by COVID, the OEL trade is nowhere near as devastating as the OEL buyout and the worst part of all, OEL bounced right back and won a cup. Meanwhile PA signed deadweight on Mikheyev during a competitive window, sold rock bottom low on Kuzmenko, sold a fuckton for Lindholm and Zadorov and at the end of it we have what to show for all those trades? Nothing. We mainly competetive again next season thanks to everything that JB put on this roster/organization Miller Pettersson Hughes Demko Boeser Garland Myers Silovs Hoglander I will show you a list later tonight on drafting position. edit: replicating JB's 1st round draft position from 2003 the strongest draft to 2016 Tkachuks draft. Here is what group of players you would have if you selected 6th and 24th in the same draft, 23rd the following, 5th, 5th, 7th and 10th. 2003-2008 6th Michalek 24th Richards 23rd Mezjaros 5th Price 5th Kessel 7th Voracek 10th Hodgson 2004-2009 6th Montoyoa 24th Chucko 23rd Bergfors 5th Kessel 5th Alzner 7th C Wilson 10th Paajarvi 2005-2010 6th Brule 24th Oshi 23rd Varlamov 5th Alzner 5th L Schenn 7th Kadri 10th McIlrath 2006-2011 6th Brassard 24th Persson 23rd Blum 5th L Schenn 5th B Schenn 7th J Skinner 10th Brodin 2007-2012 6th Gagner 24th Backlund 23rd Cuma 5th B Schenn 5th Niederreiter 7th Scheifele 10th Koekkoek 2008-2013 6th Filatov 24th Tedenby 23rd Erixon 5th Niederreiter 5th R Strome 7th Dumba 10th Nichuskin 2009-2014 6th OEL 24th Johansson 23rd Pysyk 5th Strome 5th Reilly 7th Nurse 10th Ritchie 2010-2015 6th Connolly 24th K Hayes 23rd Morrow 5th Reilly 5th E Lindholm 7th Fleury 10th Rantanen 2011-2016 6th Zibenejad 24th Puempel 23rd Matheson 5th E Lindholm 5th Dal Colle 7th Provorov 10th Jost 2012-2017 6th H Lindholm 24th M Subban 23rd Burakovsky 5th Dal Colle 5th Hanifin 7th Keller 10th Tippett 2013-2018 6th Monahan 24th Shinkaruk 23rd Bleackley 5th Hanifin 5th Juolevi 7th L Andersson 10th Bouchard 2015-2019 6th Zacha 24th Koneckny 23rd Borgstrom 5th Pettersson 5th Hayton 7th Cozens 10th Perfetti 2016-2020 6th Tkachuk 24th M Jones 23rd Joseph 5th Hayton 5th Turcotte 7th Holtz 10th Boucher How many of those groups would you select over Virtanen McCann Boeser Juolevi Pettersson Hughes Podkolzin It goes to show not every pick in each spot works out or is always going to be the BPA or a homerun. How many of those groups have multiple elite players? Not trying to come off as bias or anything, but I'm taking the group of draft picks that has Pettersson AND Hughes over any of those other groups. There are too many what it's to having drafted Tkachuk instead of Juolevi. Yes, we likely would have won a couple more games in 2016-17 but not a lot. However, in the 2017 draft all three of the lottery picks went to teams with better records than us. So there actually a really good chance that if we were a slightly better team we would have actually drafted higher. It's pretty publicly known that our internal draft rankings had Makar #1 and Petey #2 so we might have lost out on Petey but likely will have ended up with Makar instead. 2017-18 would have been a larger improvement and we almost certainly would have lost out on Hughes, but again Carolina still moved up from 11th to 2nd in the lottery. So maybe that would have been us instead and we draft Svechnikov. Or maybe we would have taken Dobson. Or maybe we would have just missed the playoffs and drafted Farabee. Far too many what ifs. But would you be happy with Makar and Svechnikov instead of Petey and Hughes? I would be. Or a defense that's anchored by Makar and Dobson? The team wouldn't be the same but that doesn't mean it couldn't be just as good as it is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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