Canucks outside the top 10 in 2025 odds

[Westcoasting]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

The odds  aren't determined on who is betting and putting money into what.   It's done using math and algorithms.    The house wants to win.   Right?   So they don't give out as much money, for the teams that the math says have the best odds of winning the cup.    And this will be fluid (won't be the same by the pre-season, and once injuries start up, after the TDL etc).  Depending on injuries, roster movements, schedule, rookie's, sophomore slumps etc etc.   As of right NOW, this is where we are at.    We don't have Lindholm or Zadarov anymore.    Added some better support along the edges and De-Brusk.   That's not a better roster then the one we had in the post season.   .   And you can bet Demko is a ? mark.   Don't play him enough have a lot tougher road to the final.   Overplay him,  no cup.     

 

Vegas doesn't give a rats ass about emotion and what fans like what teams.   Just about making money.  

 

NHL.com at 8 them at 10.   

It is exactly that. If you consider a single game them house wants both teams to get an equal number of bets because that’s how they make money. If you look at a season they want as many bets on Calgary as Edmonton so they adjust the odds accordingly.

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

The odds  aren't determined on who is betting and putting money into what.   It's done using math and algorithms.    The house wants to win.   Right?   So they don't give out as much money, for the teams that the math says have the best odds of winning the cup.    And this will be fluid (won't be the same by the pre-season, and once injuries start up, after the TDL etc).  Depending on injuries, roster movements, schedule, rookie's, sophomore slumps etc etc.   As of right NOW, this is where we are at.    We don't have Lindholm or Zadarov anymore.    Added some better support along the edges and De-Brusk.   That's not a better roster then the one we had in the post season.   .   And you can bet Demko is a ? mark.   Don't play him enough have a lot tougher road to the final.   Overplay him,  no cup.     

 

Vegas doesn't give a rats ass about emotion and what fans like what teams.   Just about making money.  

 

NHL.com at 8 them at 10.   

 

[wai_lai416]

i think it's very realistic the canucks are outside of the top 10... we saw in the playoff.. the team without QH on the ice barely have a sniff of offence and stuck playing defensive hockey parking the bus.. let's just assume Hronek is unable to drive his own line and playing with QH.. we moved out zadorov and cole and replaced it with 2 even more defensive defenceman.. where's the offence going to come from when QH is not on the ice. 

 

[IBatch]

9 hours ago, Westcoasting said:

It is exactly that. If you consider a single game them house wants both teams to get an equal number of bets because that’s how they make money. If you look at a season they want as many bets on Calgary as Edmonton so they adjust the odds

8 hours ago, Drive-By Body Pierce said:

 

 

It's the start of the betting season.   Didn't I said it would be fluid?   It's DETERMINED.   That's the word you're missing from my post - the odds are Determined using math and algorithms.   Actuaries and mathematicians do this.   And of course the house always gets their cut.   Maybe to be clearer, given these odds just came out - it's determined on who they believe will have the best chance of winning the cup AND how to get fans betting.    There is a lot of leeway between the multiple tiers, for them to make money all the way until the cup is won.   And absolutely, heavy betting one way or the other will affect his math.     As of right now, this is their starting game.  

 

Anyone who doesn't believe these odds go ahead and make a bet.    It's not called gambling for no reason, and the positive takeaway, again, is the Canucks are on the lists.    Don't see why anyone should find this upsetting.

 

Another poster opted to use NHL.coms current power rankings with Canuck's at 8.   Just some writers, they don't get those jobs without knowing their industry.   Is it also a slight on us fans saying that we are "only" 8th best?    Last year we were right at the top for quite sometime.    

 

 

Edited July 15 by IBatch

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

6 minutes ago, IBatch said:

 

It's the start of the betting season.   Didn't I said it would be fluid?   It's DETERMINED.   That's the word you're missing from my post - the odds are Determined using math and algorithms.   Actuaries and mathematicians do this.   And of course the house always gets their cut.   Maybe to be clearer, given these odds just came out - it's determined on who they believe will have the best chance of winning the cup AND how to get fans betting.    There is a lot of leeway between the multiple tiers, for them to make money all the way until the cup is won.   And absolutely, heavy betting one way or the other will affect his math.     As of right now, this is their starting game.  

 

Anyone who doesn't believe these odds go ahead and make a bet.    It's not called gambling for no reason, and the positive takeaway, again, is the Canucks are on the lists.    Don't see why anyone should find this upsetting.

 

Another poster opted to use NHL.coms current power rankings with Canuck's at 8.   Just some writers, they don't get those jobs without knowing their industry.   Is it also a slight on us fans saying that we are "only" 8th best?   

 

 

 

Backtracking.

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, Drive-By Body Pierce said:

 

Backtracking.

A little, don't think this is anything we should feel slighted about.    Maybe by December we will have moved up.   A lot.   Maybe we will stay where we are.    Just like power rankings.    The information is available for anyone who wants to google it.   How they set the odds. 

Edited July 15 by IBatch

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

A little, don't think this is anything we should feel slighted about.    Maybe by December we will have moved up.   A lot.   Maybe we will stay where we are.    Just like power rankings.    The information is available for anyone who wants to google it.   How they set the odds. 

 

Bottom line though... betting odds are affected by the amount of money put on one side or the other.

 

Edit: ... that's how the house makes the most money, as you alluded to as well.

Edited July 15 by Drive-By Body Pierce

[IBatch]

7 minutes ago, Drive-By Body Pierce said:

 

Bottom line though... betting odds are affected by the amount of money put on one side or the other.

 

Edit: ... that's how the house makes the most money, as you alluded to as well.

The more buzz the better.  And look at the emotional reaction on this thread.    We are now considered a "team" that can make them money.    Nobody is dropping the CHI payout. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

19 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

i think it's very realistic the canucks are outside of the top 10... we saw in the playoff.. the team without QH on the ice barely have a sniff of offence and stuck playing defensive hockey parking the bus.. let's just assume Hronek is unable to drive his own line and playing with QH.. we moved out zadorov and cole and replaced it with 2 even more defensive defenceman.. where's the offence going to come from when QH is not on the ice. 

 

Only because our most offensively skilled forward, Petey, was playing hurt (my opinion).

[TheMightyQuinns]

On 7/9/2024 at 4:11 PM, Pears said:

NHL logic: Not among top 10 for best odds to win the cup and behind Vegas and LA to win the division, but starting off #8 in the top 10 best teams. Help. 

Super 16? Nobody told me this topic was about Trevor...

[wai_lai416]

6 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Only because our most offensively skilled forward, Petey, was playing hurt (my opinion).

that partly yes but who's moving the pucks to the forward if QH/FH is not on the ice? even the miller line struggled on offence when QH specifically wasn't on the ice

[NewbieCanuckFan]

5 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

that partly yes but who's moving the pucks to the forward if QH/FH is not on the ice? even the miller line struggled on offence when QH specifically wasn't on the ice

Well Luca Sbisa was good at moving the puck to forwards.  Only they weren't the ones in Canuck uniform 

[IBatch]

On 7/14/2024 at 6:21 PM, wai_lai416 said:

i think it's very realistic the canucks are outside of the top 10... we saw in the playoff.. the team without QH on the ice barely have a sniff of offence and stuck playing defensive hockey parking the bus.. let's just assume Hronek is unable to drive his own line and playing with QH.. we moved out zadorov and cole and replaced it with 2 even more defensive defenceman.. where's the offence going to come from when QH is not on the ice. 

 

Sure.  On the same note, QHs skating was completely gone by game 3/4 versus NSH, Cole became a  liability, and Hronek was a total non-factor.   Zadarov was great.   So

agree with you on the D.    Soucy and Myers were fine.    QHs stopped skating out of self preservation.    Started to make quick little passes and really didn't do much aside from that.   And Hronek's game wasn't very inspiring.   To be nice about it.   The rest of the crew did their jobs.   Ground and pounded away.   
 

I don't think Alvin is going to stop at Forbet.   That's his Irwin upgrade.   As for Cole, he kind of lost his mojo the latter half of the season and didn't redeem himself in the post season.    I sure hope they split up QHs and Hronek.   Half of one season super natural, the other half very good then exposed.     I have serious doubts that they have four rounds in them, as a pairing.    Since Vegas, they've got the book on QHs.  NSH and EDM played him well.     He's no Ray Borque or Al Mac, as in he doesn't have the physical attributes to play any which way a team wants to play him.     Coffey especially, he'd of had several fights to give himself room and retaliate/protect himself after those hits.   When QHs was double teamed.    We don't need to see how tough he is, we need him alive still for the final. 

 

Funny how we are so hard on Bouchard, yet he outplayed QHs in that series.   Brian Campbell used to be our nemesis until Keith took over.    I'm fine with PMD's but don't think the little guys should be paired together, in the playoffs anyways.  Even Tochett started double shifting Zadarov with QHs and unstuck his thinking on that in the EDM series, and he should know.   He likes his "long defenseman".    And well, they aren't there for the regular season as much as the playoffs.    
 

All these guys can make a solid first pass. 

Edited July 16 by IBatch

[wai_lai416]

11 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Sure.  On the same note, QHs skating was completely gone by game 3/4 versus NSH, Cole became a  liability, and Hronek was a total non-factor.   Zadarov was great.   So

agree with you on the D.    Soucy and Myers were fine.    QHs stopped skating out of self preservation.    Started to make quick little passes and really didn't do much aside from that.   And Hronek's game wasn't very inspiring.   To be nice about it.   The rest of the crew did their jobs.   Ground and pounded away.   
 

I don't think Alvin is going to stop at Forbet.   That's his Irwin upgrade.   As for Cole, he kind of lost his mojo the latter half of the season and didn't redeem himself in the post season.    I sure hope they split up QHs and Hronek.   Half of one season super natural, the other half very good then exposed.     I have serious doubts that they have four rounds in them, as a pairing. 

well hopefully.. but if the QH/FH splitting up doesn't work.. at this stage of the UFA season do you see anyone out there as a plan B? right now the defense is very um immobile. we are kinda doubling down on this ground and pound style that i personally don't think will end well because with all the extra travel with vancouver.. the team will be beat and tired out before playoff even starts imo.. and puts lots of stress and work on the goaltenders on top

[IBatch]

24 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

well hopefully.. but if the QH/FH splitting up doesn't work.. at this stage of the UFA season do you see anyone out there as a plan B? right now the defense is very um immobile. we are kinda doubling down on this ground and pound style that i personally don't think will end well because with all the extra travel with vancouver.. the team will be beat and tired out before playoff even starts imo.. and puts lots of stress and work on the goaltenders on top

Think Plan A is they will use the remaining cap for a D upgrade when one of those guys goes down.     Sure hope so anyways.  I don't see Cole as a big upgrade on Desharnais.    The D we are starting with is about the same as the one we started with last season.   Zadarov.  I'd of signed him for the same deal he got in Boston.   That sucked.   But get that cap is limited as well.   
 

No idea how they will pull it off, but do think they are missing something on the  blue line too.    And do hope they split up QHs for the post season unless Hronek can channel some inner Chris Chelios or something.

 

Don't think we need another small PMD though, we've got our capacity as is.   As far travel goes, sure didn't make a difference with the corp

we had in the 90's.  Jovo became the little guy.   That's part of the game.    There are a lot of teams that put similar or more miles then we do.   COL did one year (the most).    Don't like that excuse.   Often they schedule a different team to take the brunt of that.  

 

Glad that Allvin didn't spend all his money.  As for that - he did great last season with his signings in the summer.   They all out punched their cap hits.    Not sure he will be able to hit it out of the park again this season.   QHs did fine with Schenn.   It could be QHs Desharnais Soucy Hronek Forbet Myers. 

Edited July 16 by IBatch

[wai_lai416]

15 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Think Plan A is they will use the remaining cap for a D upgrade when one of those guys goes down.     Sure hope so anyways.  I don't see Cole as a big upgrade on Desharnais.    The D we are starting with is about the same as the one we started with last season.   Zadarov.  I'd of signed him for the same deal he got in Boston.   That sucked.   But get that cap is limited as well.   
 

No idea how they will pull it off, but do think they are missing something on the  blue line too.    And do hope they split up QHs for the post season unless Hronek can channel some inner Chris Chelios or something.

 

Don't think we need another small PMD though, we've got our capacity as is.   As far travel goes, sure didn't make a difference with the corp

we had in the 90's.  Jovo became the little guy.   That's part of the game.    There are a lot of teams that put similar or more miles then we do.   COL did one year (the most).    Don't like that excuse.   Often they schedule a different team to take the brunt of that.  

cole is/was a top 4.. desharnais is a bottom 2 that plays 15mins and usually the 3/4th option on the pk.. regardless of how much cole regress maybe due to fatigue/age or whatever later on in the season and playoff.. Cole regular season >>>>>>>>>>> desharnais and it's not even close.. right now we are going to ask a combination of myers soucy desharnais forbot against other teams top 2 line and top pp unit.. 3 of them are career 3rd pairing defenceman and 1 is at the age where he should be a 3rd pairing defenceman.. i shudder just thinking about it.. and of coz travel factors into it.. it's just just the pure mileage.. it's the timezone difference much easier to wake up 3 hrs later than 3 hrs earlier. on top of playing in an absurd amount of funky hours 10am noon games.

[kilgore]

What a joke

 

I can't wait to sweep Edmonton again next season.

[IBatch]

On 7/15/2024 at 9:44 PM, wai_lai416 said:

cole is/was a top 4.. desharnais is a bottom 2 that plays 15mins and usually the 3/4th option on the pk.. regardless of how much cole regress maybe due to fatigue/age or whatever later on in the season and playoff.. Cole regular season >>>>>>>>>>> desharnais and it's not even close.. right now we are going to ask a combination of myers soucy desharnais forbot against other teams top 2 line and top pp unit.. 3 of them are career 3rd pairing defenceman and 1 is at the age where he should be a 3rd pairing defenceman.. i shudder just thinking about it.. and of coz travel factors into it.. it's just just the pure mileage.. it's the timezone difference much easier to wake up 3 hrs later than 3 hrs earlier. on top of playing in an absurd amount of funky hours 10am noon games.

Personally find it a lot harder to fly across the country and start doing things at 10:00pm my time, then the other way around (doing something at 4:00pm rather the  7:00pm).   You've got it backwards.   Having done both a lot.    35 years in BC flying out East wasn't so bad.   Flying East to West, it's exhausting showing up at 2:00am EST, for an arrival of 11:00pm PST on the Island.   Or 12:00pm EST to the Vancouver airport.   I'm sure that you didn't consider that.   That's the expectation though.   These guys don't have the same sleep schedules as ordinary people as it is.   Doing a long eastern  road trip, i'd expect the hardest part is coming home after a long road trip, trying to re-adjust.    Short ones, advantage western teams.  

Edited July 17 by IBatch

[Ghostsof1915]

Patrik was quoted he liked the flexibility of being below the cap, because with injuries it's dollar in, dollar out when you're tight against the cap. Sounds like when players are doing well in Abby, he wants the ability to call them up, and see how they can handle things in the NHL. Basically it snowballs, the cheaper the players are, the more cap options you get. It's great to see a GM that is trying to plan ahead for a change.

[Rip The Mesh]

Presented by  @FDSportsbook 

                        

 They put the NHL insignia on it

 yet they are not connected

 in any way. This is not a site 

 I would put any validity into at all.

Not to have the Canucks in it just shows that.

At the very worst, they could be an 8th or 9th team, and more then likely no worse then 5th.. 

                                                                  

 

 

 

[D-Money]

It's hard to gauge how much we really lost. Zadorov and Cole were very good depth defensemen, but how much of their success last year was because of coaching? Zad had never played that well in his whole career. If the guys who left take a step back, and Forbort/Desharnais take a step forward, we may actually be pretty close to last season. Desharnais in particular may have a lot of room to grow.

 

Up front Lindholm looked great in the playoffs between Garland & Joshua. That said, Bluger looked pretty good in the same spot for most of the year. So the drop-off at forward they're is likely negated by the big improvements on the wings with Debrusk/Heinen/Sherwood.

 

Any list that has us behind the Leafs next year is a joke.

[IBatch]

On 7/15/2024 at 8:23 PM, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Well Luca Sbisa was good at moving the puck to forwards.  Only they weren't the ones in Canuck uniform 

Same with Adrian Aucion for a couple years, and Adrian Plavsic all the time.   

[wai_lai416]

7 hours ago, IBatch said:

Personally find it a lot harder to fly across the country and start doing things at 10:00pm my time, then the other way around (doing something at 4:00pm rather the  7:00pm).   You've got it backwards.   Having done both a lot.    35 years in BC flying out East wasn't so bad.   Flying East to West, it's exhausting showing up at 2:00am EST, for an arrival of 11:00pm PST on the Island.   Or 12:00pm EST to the Vancouver airport.   I'm sure that you didn't consider that.   That's the expectation though.   These guys don't have the same sleep schedules as ordinary people as it is.   Doing a long eastern  road trip, i'd expect the hardest part is coming home after a long road trip, trying to re-adjust.    Short ones, advantage western teams.  

To each their own i fly across 6 times a year plus twice in Hong Kong. I 100% have no issue waking up later than waking up early. If u think western teams have advantage with time zone I have no clue what to say. A lot easier for me to show up at 9am than it is at 6am 

[IBatch]

21 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

To each their own i fly across 6 times a year plus twice in Hong Kong. I 100% have no issue waking up later than waking up early. If u think western teams have advantage with time zone I have no clue what to say. A lot easier for me to show up at 9am than it is at 6am 

It's about when the games start.   Do you think a professional athlete wants to start a game at 10:00pm their sleep schedule, or 4:00pm.  Why you're so concerned about the schedule, it's always been this way.  And what does Hong Kong have to do with it?  Are you going there to build a stone wall or lay pavers 12 hours a day?    I know exactly how it affects these guys.   You're making it out to be a big disadvantage and a bigger deal than it needs to be. 

 

Canuck's get a favourable scehdule for where they live.   They should travel the most miles, but it's not them that does.   Why?  Because the league makes adjustments.   It's always harder to lose sleep over gain it.   Good grief like playing a game at 4:00pm is easier then 10:00pm.    It's hard on the Eastern teams in that regard.    A couple games and one way or the other, doesn't  matter either way,  it's the road trips that last a couple weeks that are hard, for both sides but harder for Eastern teams at the start, harder for the Western teams when they come home.    And the short swings well i'd sure rather play my game at 4:00 pm then 10:00pm.   These guys aren't playing a video game.   Or working in an office.   Also 6:00am isn't even early.     Now 3:00am that's early.

 

Edit: FYI, how many cups has COL won.  Or LA.  Or CHI.    OR TO and DET when they were in the Western Conference (and in the Eastern time zone!!).    Don't remember much bitching.   When I did start getting the bitching on the old CDC circa early 2010's, bought into it for a tiny little bit.   Until I put myself in other teams shoes and discovered it wasn't Vancouver putting the most miles in.    Hint COL, LA, SJ, EDM and then VAN is the usual.    And yes for sure the Eastern teams get a big bump some of them.   Not all though.    I'd rather start work at 4:00pm then 10:00pm.   As a person that did a psychically demanding job, and worked with 3 ex hockey players, they will also attest to this.   Waiting is the hardest part.  Tom Petty. 

 

And personally, given when they actually are playing the games, would much rather play them at 4:00pm then 10:00pm.   Bet every single fan that moved out East will say the same thing, just sitting on their couch.    It's much easier to watch a game from 4-7 and then 7-10 then 7-10, then 10-1:00. 

Edited July 18 by IBatch

[wai_lai416]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

It's about when the games start.   Do you think a professional athlete wants to start a game at 10:00pm their sleep schedule, or 4:00pm.  Why you're so concerned about the schedule, it's always been this way.  And what does Hong Kong have to do with it?  Are you going there to build a stone wall or lay pavers 12 hours a day?    I know exactly how it affects these guys.   You're making it out to be a big disadvantage and a bigger deal than it needs to be. 

 

Canuck's get a favourable scehdule for where they live.   They should travel the most miles, but it's not them that does.   Why?  Because the league makes adjustments.   It's always harder to lose sleep over gain it.   Good grief like playing a game at 4:00pm is easier then 10:00pm.    It's hard on the Eastern teams in that regard.    A couple games and one way or the other, doesn't  matter either way,  it's the road trips that last a couple weeks that are hard, for both sides but harder for Eastern teams at the start, harder for the Western teams when they come home.    And the short swings well i'd sure rather play my game at 4:00 pm then 10:00pm.   These guys aren't playing a video game.   Or working in an office.   Also 6:00am isn't even early.     Now 3:00am that's early.

 

Edit: FYI, how many cups has COL won.  Or LA.  Or CHI.    OR TO and DET when they were in the Western Conference (and in the Eastern time zone!!).    Don't remember much bitching.   When I did start getting the bitching on the old CDC circa early 2010's, bought into it for a tiny little bit.   Until I put myself in other teams shoes and discovered it wasn't Vancouver putting the most miles in.    Hint COL, LA, SJ, EDM and then VAN is the usual.    And yes for sure the Eastern teams get a big bump some of them.   Not all though.    I'd rather start work at 4:00pm then 10:00pm.   As a person that did a psychically demanding job, and worked with 3 ex hockey players, they will also attest to this.   Waiting is the hardest part.  Tom Petty. 

 

And personally, given when they actually are playing the games, would much rather play them at 4:00pm then 10:00pm.   Bet every single fan that moved out East will say the same thing, just sitting on their couch.    It's much easier to watch a game from 4-7 and then 7-10 then 7-10, then 10-1:00. 

athelete likes to keep things the same whenever possible. canucks does not have a more favorable schedule.. they have one of the most games outside their regular starting time 7pm pst than any other teams in the league on top of travel.