Elias Pettersson Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago Just now, King Heffy said: Because the doctors have to come from somewhere, which is the public system. Privatization of our health care is completely unacceptable. Go to the USA if you want that garbage. Bullshit. Lots of doctors prefer to work privately. They don’t want to be in the system having the government control their wages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 21 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I agree. Not sure why people would be against having private health care for people who want to pay for it. Only reason I can think of is they would be upset that rich people can bypass the cue. Becaus much like Clarke/Campbell and private education in BC, inevitably tax payer money WILL go to pay for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: Bullshit. Lots of doctors prefer to work privately. They don’t want to be in the system having the government control their wages. And I prefer to be able to crack a beer at work with lunch, but we have basic decency and norms in this province. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 6 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Most sane people who have seen what Rustad wants to do to the province are in fear. You're underestimating how opposed normal people are to truly evil vermin destroying BC. Are those the same people who will be voting for Poilievre in record numbers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Bullshit. Lots of doctors prefer to work privately. They don’t want to be in the system having the government control their wages. Which will only drive up the issue of staffing for doctors and nursing shortages. Which will allow for nurses and doctors in the public systems to strike demanding higher wages which means less money for the public system while the private ystem ends up being subidized by the yax payer and we eventually have less services and staff overall to go around. This has to be easy enough to understand no? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 19 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I agree. Not sure why people would be against having private health care for people who want to pay for it. Only reason I can think of is they would be upset that rich people can bypass the cue. For things that aren't in the 'medically necessary' category we already have private delivery. This just one of the problems with the graphic, its suggesting that there's cue jumping when there isn't. Worse tho, it's suggesting that the 28k someone would spend at Cambie Surgical on their knee could somehow be accessed by the system, which of course it can't be. Add to that, the spending on private clinics by the system is barely 1% of total spending in Ontario. It's just one tool in the box to get people more timely care. OR time is really really expensive, so while a person might be sent for a knee to a private clinic, maybe the hospital is performing a much more expensive surgery with that OR time. We can absolutely have privately run services under a single payer system in our rural areas. Thats different from a 2 tier system. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 2 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Becaus much like Clarke/Campbell and private education in BC, inevitably tax payer money WILL go to pay for it. Well we could always tax the rich to cover the difference… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 2 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Which will only drive up the issue of staffing for doctors and nursing shortages. Which will allow for nurses and doctors in the public systems to strike demanding higher wages which means less money for the public system while the private ystem ends up being subidized by the yax payer and we eventually have less services and staff overall to go around. This has to be easy enough to understand no? No. Right now we have a serious access problem in rural and northern care. So it's not the equivalence you are suggesting. Our current system configuration isn't providing timely care in many areas. If a private clinic could make it work, whats the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Are those the same people who will be voting for Poilievre in record numbers? No, these are the people who don't have something profoundly wrong with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 6 minutes ago, King Heffy said: And I prefer to be able to crack a beer at work with lunch, but we have basic decency and norms in this province. You’re not allowed to have a beer at lunch? Is Trudeau your boss or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Well we could always tax the rich to cover the difference… That would be incredibly sensible wouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 11 minutes ago, Bob Long said: from what I can tell, the "cutting" is based on the idea that the proposed spending amount won't match inflation, so its being deemed a "cut". But thats an assumption in isolation of many other factors like finding efficiencies elsewhere in the system. So to me that's a bit thin. hmm, Well Rustad seems trustworthy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 6 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Which will only drive up the issue of staffing for doctors and nursing shortages. Which will allow for nurses and doctors in the public systems to strike demanding higher wages which means less money for the public system while the private ystem ends up being subidized by the yax payer and we eventually have less services and staff overall to go around. This has to be easy enough to understand no? Didn’t we lose a whole bunch of nurses to the US and Alberta a number of years ago when they went on strike demanding higher wages? Also, all of the anti vaxxer nurses and doctors that the system fired and don’t want can certainly go work in the private system without affecting any of the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Didn’t we lose a whole bunch of nurses to the US and Alberta a number of years ago when they went on strike demanding higher wages? Also, all of the anti vaxxer nurses and doctors that the system fired and don’t want can certainly go work in the private system without affecting any of the numbers. It will be an interesting vote. How many Greens will leak over to the NDP? How many votes will the Independant ex-Liberals siphon from the Conservatives? We have an Independant running in a NDP held riding in my area. She is a nurse who lost her job for not getting a vaccine shot. I am impressed by her campaign but cannot tell who she will hurt the most the NDP or Cons? This is an NDP seat but their campaign is pretty low key. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Didn’t we lose a whole bunch of nurses to the US and Alberta a number of years ago when they went on strike demanding higher wages? Also, all of the anti vaxxer nurses and doctors that the system fired and don’t want can certainly go work in the private system without affecting any of the numbers. Until such time as the union has a privatized sector to match wages against in their upcoming negotiations. As well, health care is and would still be governed by the ruling bodies which means those still non vaccinated workers would still be inadmissible for employment due to potential health issues/risks. BC has also seen the largest inflow of health care professionals in the nation with a large portion of them coming from Alberta and Sask. Both of whom have semi private care and outsource operations and treatment. Wonder why 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 9 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: hmm, Well Rustad seems trustworthy... two different issues tho. I'm challenging the assumption of the conclusion that it's a "cut". Seems a bit partisan to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 2 minutes ago, Boudrias said: It will be an interesting vote. How many Greens will leak over to the NDP? How many votes will the Independant ex-Liberals siphon from the Conservatives? We have an Independant running in a NDP held riding in my area. She is a nurse who lost her job for not getting a vaccine shot. I am impressed by her campaign but cannot tell who she will hurt the most the NDP or Cons? This is an NDP seat but their campaign is pretty low key. The thing you touched on is one I have wondered why the media and polls have not covered. in BC we do have some very small amount of green seating on the island. But by and large the only true and consistent bleeding of votes will come at the hands of the conservatives by former BC Liberal/BC United candidates who are still running and who are the only other centre/centre right option. 1000-2000 votes per candidate can be more than enough to completely tank the BC Conservatives and allow a few more NDP candidates to come up the middle. I honestly wonder why nobody is speaking of this, as those former candidates are far more widely placed in the province than the fewe small and negligible green candidates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 1 minute ago, Warhippy said: Until such time as the union has a privatized sector to match wages against in their upcoming negotiations. As well, health care is and would still be governed by the ruling bodies which means those still non vaccinated workers would still be inadmissible for employment due to potential health issues/risks. BC has also seen the largest inflow of health care professionals in the nation with a large portion of them coming from Alberta and Sask. Both of whom have semi private care and outsource operations and treatment. Wonder why but they can't demand the same wages, assuming the ones in the north e.g. would be higher. They would be higher, because they are in the north. How would someone in the union in Vancouver argue that they deserve a northern pay bump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago Just now, Bob Long said: but they can't demand the same wages, assuming the ones in the north e.g. would be higher. They would be higher, because they are in the north. How would someone in the union in Vancouver argue that they deserve a northern pay bump? Cost of living Higher paid private nurses/care personnel/anesthesiologists Increased competition per sector The threat of lost labour hours and bodies. A large number of actual reasons which would be quantified by the entrance of private surgical and semi private outsource surgical centres. It happened and happens in the US with frequency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: two different issues tho. I'm challenging the assumption of the conclusion that it's a "cut". Seems a bit partisan to me. So do you trust that the Cons wouldn't ? I feel Rustad has shown that he is untrustworthy. Since he sees dead people that others cant, like an M,Night Shyamalan movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago Just now, Warhippy said: Cost of living Higher paid private nurses/care personnel/anesthesiologists Increased competition per sector The threat of lost labour hours and bodies. A large number of actual reasons which would be quantified by the entrance of private surgical and semi private outsource surgical centres. It happened and happens in the US with frequency. we have Cambie Surgical now, it hasn't changed surgeon rates. Properly staffing Northern and rural areas isn't happening now, so whats the basis for using it as a negotiation tool? I don't see it. As far as lost labour goes, same problem, it's not being staffed properly now. If a private clinic attracts more people, then we need to do that. The only threat I see is more crappy service for rural people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 3 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: So do you trust that the Cons wouldn't ? I feel Rustad has shown that he is untrustworthy. Since he sees dead people that others cant, like an M,Night Shyamalan movie. I don't trust Eby either, so it's moot for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: I don't trust Eby either, so it's moot for me. As much as you dont trust 'Vax gives you Aids' boy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago Just now, bishopshodan said: As much as you dont trust 'Vax gives you Aids' boy? is that guy going to be the new health minister setting policy? Dunno, maybe he watches too much Rogan. Things like the infographic above are why I don't trust the NDP to get it right. It's highly slanted, very pro-union and misleading. Just pumping more money into the unions isn't the sole answer to the really wide range of problems BC has, and I don't see Eby putting forward anything innovative on healthcare. Maybe you can show me differently? where's the plan for rural health? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petesake Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago 1 hour ago, Boudrias said: As EP said with 1 million advance voters it suggests a real desire for change. My wife and I voted early and it was the first time for both of us and it was not for change, and I’ll tell you that for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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