Bob Long Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 16 hours ago, Sapper said: https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/private-health-care-taxpayer-money-1.6777470 There are a great number of links available to similiar reports that article basically explains how complex the issue is, and we can't blanket "privatization" as all bad. 16 hours ago, Sapper said: As soon as anything health related becomes for profit ... Its efficiencies for the end user drops anything? so you're saying government is the ultimate efficiency benchmark? 16 hours ago, Sapper said: Also not reported is that ever time a private clinic does a major surgery the public hospital has to block a bed in case of complications. The private clinics don't have the capacity or ability to prove acute care recovery or ICU. I've never heard of this 'bed blocking' - do you have any kind of link to that? 16 hours ago, Sapper said: This means beds sit empty to ensure those patients at private clinics have a bed if there is complications..... In countries that folks like Dr Day rely on those places have fully private hospitals seperate from the public system and can offer those other services In Canada we don't have enough scale to make having 2 fully functioning systems in place .... It's one or the other for core health care needs again, I'm not talking about 2 fully separate systems, just more efficient delivery where it makes sense to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 2 hours ago, Bob Long said: that article basically explains how complex the issue is, and we can't blanket "privatization" as all bad. anything? so you're saying government is the ultimate efficiency benchmark? I've never heard of this 'bed blocking' - do you have any kind of link to that? again, I'm not talking about 2 fully separate systems, just more efficient delivery where it makes sense to. For bed blocking talk to any ICU or surgical nurses. Each hospital will have a set number of beds blocked for hip replacement for example. If there is a private surgical clinic in your city they would normally hold a bed for a day or 2 just in case that patient needs to come back in. The private clinic isn't able to keep them overnight and nor can they provide on going post surgical acute care. When that happens it backs up the list for that type of surgery in hospital Were government gives a private clinic enough money to purchase an MRI machine and uses them to reduce the back log ..... Once that's completed and the private clinic isn't making the profit they either sell.the machine or move it. The local hospital still only has their old machine with the tax payers funding the one for the private clinic We are better served if the money stays in the community and invested locally Most of the comparisons the supporters of private care use are countries with enough of a population to support both. In Canada outside of very limited geographic locations that are near major training hospitals ... They simply can't recruit enough specialists to staff both private and public so doing so means a reduction in the other Places like Montreal or Toronto may be able to recruit the extra staff needed to run 2 parallel systems , but for example if you open a private surgical clinic in Kelowna or Kamloops they simply don't have the staff to run both systems and in order to make any money the private site would need to be given all.surguries .... Not just some There could be a place for some private services were there is no public service in place , but again in order to make the profits they would need there is no business case for most of it This in part is why health authorities are buying the private sites for diagnostic equipment and bringing them into their systems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samiamnot Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 1 hour ago, Sapper said: We are better served if the money stays in the community and invested locally Don't think anyone's going to disagree with you there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 2 hours ago, Sapper said: For bed blocking talk to any ICU or surgical nurses. Each hospital will have a set number of beds blocked for hip replacement for example. If there is a private surgical clinic in your city they would normally hold a bed for a day or 2 just in case that patient needs to come back in. The private clinic isn't able to keep them overnight and nor can they provide on going post surgical acute care. When that happens it backs up the list for that type of surgery in hospital Were government gives a private clinic enough money to purchase an MRI machine and uses them to reduce the back log ..... Once that's completed and the private clinic isn't making the profit they either sell.the machine or move it. The local hospital still only has their old machine with the tax payers funding the one for the private clinic We are better served if the money stays in the community and invested locally Most of the comparisons the supporters of private care use are countries with enough of a population to support both. In Canada outside of very limited geographic locations that are near major training hospitals ... They simply can't recruit enough specialists to staff both private and public so doing so means a reduction in the other Places like Montreal or Toronto may be able to recruit the extra staff needed to run 2 parallel systems , but for example if you open a private surgical clinic in Kelowna or Kamloops they simply don't have the staff to run both systems and in order to make any money the private site would need to be given all.surguries .... Not just some There could be a place for some private services were there is no public service in place , but again in order to make the profits they would need there is no business case for most of it This in part is why health authorities are buying the private sites for diagnostic equipment and bringing them into their systems. I'm working with an ICU chief on a project right now, I will ask him about bed blocking. I suspect the bed gets filled if there's an emergency but it would suck if someone else's surgery got bumped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arrogant Worms Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 On 7/20/2024 at 2:11 PM, Bob Long said: I'm working with an ICU chief on a project right now, I will ask him about bed blocking. I suspect the bed gets filled if there's an emergency but it would suck if someone else's surgery got bumped. It would suck more if the emergency patient died. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arrogant Worms Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 Third BC United MLA set to go to B.C.'s Conservatives RICHMOND, B.C. — BC United Leader Kevin Falcon is losing a third member of the legislature to the Conservative Party of British Columbia. https://www.timescolonist.com/bc-news/third-bc-united-mla-set-to-go-to-bcs-conservatives-9286024 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 3 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said: Third BC United MLA set to go to B.C.'s Conservatives RICHMOND, B.C. — BC United Leader Kevin Falcon is losing a third member of the legislature to the Conservative Party of British Columbia. https://www.timescolonist.com/bc-news/third-bc-united-mla-set-to-go-to-bcs-conservatives-9286024 Wat a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 3 hours ago, The Arrogant Worms said: Third BC United MLA set to go to B.C.'s Conservatives RICHMOND, B.C. — BC United Leader Kevin Falcon is losing a third member of the legislature to the Conservative Party of British Columbia. https://www.timescolonist.com/bc-news/third-bc-united-mla-set-to-go-to-bcs-conservatives-9286024 So ... they're the bc liberals still 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spur1 Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 6 hours ago, The Arrogant Worms said: Third BC United MLA set to go to B.C.'s Conservatives RICHMOND, B.C. — BC United Leader Kevin Falcon is losing a third member of the legislature to the Conservative Party of British Columbia. https://www.timescolonist.com/bc-news/third-bc-united-mla-set-to-go-to-bcs-conservatives-9286024 At least they are starting to be more honest. The B.C. Liberals were like Hitler calling his party socialist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 Hey, more polls… https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/07/30/bc-conservatives-ndp-polling/ BC Conservatives ‘virtually tied’ with BC NDP in latest poll “The race has tightened considerably in southern B.C., where the BC NDP and the BC Conservatives are virtually tied” said Research Co. President Mario Canseco. “In June, the BC New Democrats were 11 points ahead of the BC Conservatives in this region of British Columbia.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashian Kassian Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 Yikes not good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spur1 Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 56 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said: Yikes not good Just drove from BC (home) to Saskatchewan. Stayed in Alberta on the way. The story is the same. Lady in Hanna was saying she had to go to Medicine Hat for shoulder surgery. Quite a distance. Just like I had to travel to Kelowna for Stent Surgery. Again a year later for follow up. (Thanks for Angel Flights EK.). Here in Saskatchewan at my family reunion the subject of overloaded ERs came up early in the conversations. Get in line after the drug overdose patients. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 7 hours ago, Spur1 said: Just drove from BC (home) to Saskatchewan. Stayed in Alberta on the way. The story is the same. Lady in Hanna was saying she had to go to Medicine Hat for shoulder surgery. Quite a distance. Just like I had to travel to Kelowna for Stent Surgery. Again a year later for follow up. (Thanks for Angel Flights EK.). Not sure how the rural specialist issue gets resolved fully, that's always going to be a tough issue to crack. 7 hours ago, Spur1 said: Here in Saskatchewan at my family reunion the subject of overloaded ERs came up early in the conversations. Get in line after the drug overdose patients. Maybe stop voting for Moe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 Absolutely brutal that this is what our health care system is denigrating into. My son is a OP nurse and has been telling me for 6-7 years that this would happen. I was recently in the Cranbrook hospital for a visit and there were patients laying in beds in the hallway. I do not know the specifics of why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 10 minutes ago, Boudrias said: Absolutely brutal that this is what our health care system is denigrating into. My son is a OP nurse and has been telling me for 6-7 years that this would happen. I was recently in the Cranbrook hospital for a visit and there were patients laying in beds in the hallway. I do not know the specifics of why? Hospital staffing shortages and resulting bed closures have meant admitted patients are subjected to much longer emergency department stays https://www.cmaj.ca/content/195/24/E851 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 1 hour ago, Bob Long said: Hospital staffing shortages and resulting bed closures have meant admitted patients are subjected to much longer emergency department stays https://www.cmaj.ca/content/195/24/E851 Also lack of family doctors leaves a lot of people going to the ER that could be helped with nurse practitioners. We're starting to see some good ways of alleviating the pressure with the urgent care clinics and allowing pharmacists to prescribe drugs for minor ailments. I'd like to see a ban on employers requiring a doctor's note for illness. Finally, let's get those accredited in foreign jurisdictions working, even if in a limited capacity while they finish getting certified to practice in Canada. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 We need way more healthcare and public safety investment. Way. More. It's an area that I think all of us can agree regardless of political lean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 (edited) 2 hours ago, Boudrias said: Absolutely brutal that this is what our health care system is denigrating into. My son is a OP nurse and has been telling me for 6-7 years that this would happen. I was recently in the Cranbrook hospital for a visit and there were patients laying in beds in the hallway. I do not know the specifics of why? Aging population. Global problem. Also not remotely centric to just health care. There's staff shortages in basically every industry. Though it does have the double whammy of too many health care workers retiring/dying with not enough younger people to replace then, PLUS an increasing amount of aging people needing care. Need a multi faceted approach to try to manage it. As @King Heffypointed out, we need more nurse practitioners, more people going to pharmacists, accreditation streamlined, better public education in what ER's are for (not average cold and flu symptoms for example) and we likely need some help from technology/AI to help streamline basic diagnoses/triage etc. Edited August 3 by aGENT 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 44 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Finally, let's get those accredited in foreign jurisdictions working, even if in a limited capacity while they finish getting certified to practice in Canada. This-This and THIS. I really want to know exactly what the hold up is in accrediting foreign doctors and .... How much is really about their "different, and perceived inferior training' and how much of it is just local governing bodies protecting their turf. And if the training is truly inferior- how long to get them up to Canadian standards. Is it possible to have 2 or 3 'Canadian" doctors working at a clinic that has 2-3 'foreign' doctors doing a 'apprenticeship". creativity is one way to success, maybe we should try it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 My Doctor's office has had a nurse practitioner working there for a couple years now. You can book to see her, without the doctor involved at all. doctor can also call refer you to the nurse, during your Doctor visit. He spots something, asks for your consent, and directs the nurse to take care of whatever the issue is. Need skin tags and/or moles removed- see her, not him. Ear cleaning, toe nail issues, on and on....... gives the doctor a lot more time to do the stuff you actually need a doctor for. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 2 minutes ago, Gurn said: My Doctor's office has had a nurse practitioner working there for a couple years now. You can book to see her, without the doctor involved at all. doctor can also call refer you to the nurse, during your Doctor visit. He spots something, asks for your consent, and directs the nurse to take care of whatever the issue is. Need skin tags and/or moles removed- see her, not him. Ear cleaning, toe nail issues, on and on....... gives the doctor a lot more time to do the stuff you actually need a doctor for. I like having mental health experts helping out/working with the cops too. That's a great initiative, they have the skills and would relieve some police resources. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 Just now, Gurn said: My Doctor's office has had a nurse practitioner working there for a couple years now. You can book to see her, without the doctor involved at all. doctor can also call refer you to the nurse, during your Doctor visit. He spots something, asks for your consent, and directs the nurse to take care of whatever the issue is. Need skin tags and/or moles removed- see her, not him. Ear cleaning, toe nail issues, on and on....... gives the doctor a lot more time to do the stuff you actually need a doctor for. My physician is one of the clinical instructors and "supervisors" that bring residents into their clinic to oversee their work. All but one of my last 5 or 6 appointments with him have either been directly dealing with the resident from start to finish, or at most a 3 minute oversight interaction with my physician where he then takes the info that I have or the resident has repeated and then based on the resident's proposed action gives his own assessment and suggested approach. The one time I saw him for the full appointment was probably in between sessions, and he seemed very refreshed. Now, if they'd expand that to more practicing doctors and more trained professionals looking for a residency (or looking to complete their residency)... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arrogant Worms Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 B.C. United promises major income tax cut if elected https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-united-promises-major-income-tax-cut-1.7293343 A B.C. United government would eliminate the provincial income tax on the first $50,000 earned by every British Columbian, Leader Kevin Falcon announced Tuesday. The move would save British Columbians an average of $2,050 a year each at a time when people are struggling to afford the rising cost of living, Falcon said. The tax cut would cost the province $5.4 billion in tax revenue, B.C. United says. Proposed tax cut details Falcon said the provincial income tax cut would be applied directly to people's paycheques, saving them about $100 every two weeks. The party, citing Canada Revenue Agency data, says 2.4 million B.C. taxpayers earn less than $50,000 a year. Right now, anyone who makes $11,980 a year or less does not pay provincial income tax, but the B.C. United plan would raise that exemption to the first $50,000. Falcon said the marginal tax rate will not change for higher income earners, who will also have their provincial income tax waived on the first $50,000. Reaction During an unrelated news conference in Penticton on Tuesday, Premier David Eby slammed the B.C. United plan, saying it would result in a dramatic cut to the services British Columbians rely on, including health care, education and transportation. "[Falcon] will propose to do this in the same way that he did it before," Eby said, alluding to Falcon's time as a cabinet minister in the B.C. Liberal government from 2001 to 2013. "'Oh, don't worry, I'll cut your taxes over here. But you'll pay MSP, you'll pay road tolls, bridge tolls ... your ICBC rates will go up.' They'll sell off public assets to pretend that the books are balanced." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 20 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said: B.C. United promises major income tax cut if elected https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-united-promises-major-income-tax-cut-1.7293343 A B.C. United government would eliminate the provincial income tax on the first $50,000 earned by every British Columbian, Leader Kevin Falcon announced Tuesday. The move would save British Columbians an average of $2,050 a year each at a time when people are struggling to afford the rising cost of living, Falcon said. The tax cut would cost the province $5.4 billion in tax revenue, B.C. United says. Proposed tax cut details Falcon said the provincial income tax cut would be applied directly to people's paycheques, saving them about $100 every two weeks. The party, citing Canada Revenue Agency data, says 2.4 million B.C. taxpayers earn less than $50,000 a year. Right now, anyone who makes $11,980 a year or less does not pay provincial income tax, but the B.C. United plan would raise that exemption to the first $50,000. Falcon said the marginal tax rate will not change for higher income earners, who will also have their provincial income tax waived on the first $50,000. Reaction During an unrelated news conference in Penticton on Tuesday, Premier David Eby slammed the B.C. United plan, saying it would result in a dramatic cut to the services British Columbians rely on, including health care, education and transportation. "[Falcon] will propose to do this in the same way that he did it before," Eby said, alluding to Falcon's time as a cabinet minister in the B.C. Liberal government from 2001 to 2013. "'Oh, don't worry, I'll cut your taxes over here. But you'll pay MSP, you'll pay road tolls, bridge tolls ... your ICBC rates will go up.' They'll sell off public assets to pretend that the books are balanced." Yeah....this is a garbage idea.... Pandering to the gullible, who won't see beyond the extra "$100 per paycheque.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 4 minutes ago, RupertKBD said: Yeah....this is a garbage idea.... Pandering to the gullible, who won't see beyond the extra "$100 per paycheque.... I'd be fine with it if it was offset with a tax hike in the highest brackets. We need money for our medical and education systems. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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