B.C. Politics Thread

[RupertKBD]

3 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I'd be fine with it if it was offset with a tax hike in the highest brackets.  We need money for our medical and education systems.

 

Yep. If he was able to pull this off with no loss of tax revenue, then it would be a winner for him.

 

Of course we know, this is fantasyland....

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

The move would save British Columbians an average of $2,050 a year

 

1 hour ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

The party, citing Canada Revenue Agency data, says 2.4 million B.C. taxpayers earn less than $50,000 a year. 

2.4 million times $2,050= 4,920,000,000

 

just shy of a $5 billion hit to provincial tax income.

 

Edit- that could well be a severe underestimate as I used the number of taxpayers under $50,000-- while the article said "British columbians an average of $2,050---  perhaps this needs to be 

 

$2,050 multiplied by approx 5.5 million peopole= 11,275,000,000

An $11.275 billion hit to revenue?   

Edited August 14 by Gurn

[The Arrogant Worms]

1 hour ago, King Heffy said:

I'd be fine with it if it was offset with a tax hike in the highest brackets.  We need money for our medical and education systems.

Thats cute thinking he might tax the rich

[Bob Long]

On 8/3/2024 at 9:23 AM, bishopshodan said:

We need way more healthcare and public safety investment.

Way. More.

 

It's an area that I think all of us can agree regardless of political lean.

 

 

 

we can, but do we have to be stuck on government providing all of it? Does it really matter if some more is privatized if it means everyone gets the help they need?

 

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Yeah....this is a garbage idea....

 

Pandering to the gullible, who won't see beyond the extra "$100 per paycheque....

 

this feels like Christy's skytrain to Squamish promise. 

[Attila Umbrus]

On 8/3/2024 at 12:35 AM, Spur1 said:

Just drove from BC (home) to Saskatchewan. Stayed in Alberta on the way. The story is the same. Lady in Hanna was saying she had to go to Medicine Hat for shoulder surgery. Quite a distance. Just like I had to travel to Kelowna for Stent Surgery. Again a year later for follow up. (Thanks for Angel Flights EK.). 
Here in Saskatchewan at my family reunion the subject of overloaded ERs came up early in the conversations. Get in line after the drug overdose patients. 

I've experienced the same...the ER where i'm living is full of people waiting to be seen while ambulance after ambulance show up with over dose victims that get treated first. I waited 12 hours to be seen by the doctor. An old lady sitting beside me who wasn't dying but in major pain waited LONGER than me to see a doctor, she was in tears and it was tough to watch.

 

I don't blame doctors, triage is triage and they have to follow the code. But something has to change. A lot of people are suffering and are waiting at the back of the line up while over dose victims get to the front of the line and then take up a lot of bed space after as well. We run out of beds constantly at our hospital. People who need to be seen are sent home with pain pills just to get them out of the ER...it's a mess.

 

Honestly I may get roasted for this...but if you keep over dosing...at what point is a health professional allowed to just "let it happen"...like 3 strikes and you're out?

 

I dunno, I feel terrible for saying that. But what else can be done?

[King Heffy]

15 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

Thats cute thinking he might tax the rich

I didn't think he would, hence why I won't be voting for them.

[bishopshodan]

6 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

we can, but do we have to be stuck on government providing all of it? Does it really matter if some more is privatized if it means everyone gets the help they need?

 

 

Like Finland. We were talking about that.

 

Happy system.

 

 

[King Heffy]

8 minutes ago, Attila Umbrus said:

I've experienced the same...the ER where i'm living is full of people waiting to be seen while ambulance after ambulance show up with over dose victims that get treated first. I waited 12 hours to be seen by the doctor. An old lady sitting beside me who wasn't dying but in major pain waited LONGER than me to see a doctor, she was in tears and it was tough to watch.

 

I don't blame doctors, triage is triage and they have to follow the code. But something has to change. A lot of people are suffering and are waiting at the back of the line up while over dose victims get to the front of the line and then take up a lot of bed space after as well. We run out of beds constantly at our hospital. People who need to be seen are sent home with pain pills just to get them out of the ER...it's a mess.

 

Honestly I may get roasted for this...but if you keep over dosing...at what point is a health professional allowed to just "let it happen"...like 3 strikes and you're out?

 

I dunno, I feel terrible for saying that. But what else can be done?

Involuntary treatment, and the safe consumption sites lower the chance of overdose.  Both cost money that the right will moan and complain about spending.

[Bob Long]

30 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

Like Finland. We were talking about that.

 

Happy system.

 

 

 

If think if we can disconnect universal access from government delivery a bit more we will get somewhere. 

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, Attila Umbrus said:

I've experienced the same...the ER where i'm living is full of people waiting to be seen while ambulance after ambulance show up with over dose victims that get treated first. I waited 12 hours to be seen by the doctor. An old lady sitting beside me who wasn't dying but in major pain waited LONGER than me to see a doctor, she was in tears and it was tough to watch.

 

I don't blame doctors, triage is triage and they have to follow the code. But something has to change. A lot of people are suffering and are waiting at the back of the line up while over dose victims get to the front of the line and then take up a lot of bed space after as well. We run out of beds constantly at our hospital. People who need to be seen are sent home with pain pills just to get them out of the ER...it's a mess.

 

Honestly I may get roasted for this...but if you keep over dosing...at what point is a health professional allowed to just "let it happen"...like 3 strikes and you're out?

 

I dunno, I feel terrible for saying that. But what else can be done?

I am of the opinion that reviving a homeless drug addict over and over is akin to waterboarding: if you come across them and they are gone, just have the mercy to leave them gone. I know it isn't a popular opinion, but it is my opinion. And yes I am sorry for your loss, loved ones of the homeless addicts that have OD'd, my opinion doesn't make me a horrible person. 

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, King Heffy said:

Involuntary treatment, and the safe consumption sites lower the chance of overdose.  Both cost money that the right will moan and complain about spending.

I am a bit left, by all measures. I think that safe consumption sites are a blight on any local community they exist in. Evidence has been weighed now for twenty years and more: no city block has recovered from having a safe injection site and 90% of them are worse for having them. I am not sure the rights of the addict outweigh the rights of the business owners and home owners and kids walking to school through the mess. Involuntary treatment is where I am leaning these days. 

[Optimist Prime]

2 hours ago, Gurn said:

 

2.4 million times $2,050= 4,920,000,000

 

just shy of a $5 billion hit to provincial tax income.

 

Edit- that could well be a severe underestimate as I used the number of taxpayers under $50,000-- while the article said "British columbians an average of $2,050---  perhaps this needs to be 

 

$2,050 multiplied by approx 5.5 million peopole= 11,275,000,000

An $11.275 billion hit to revenue?   

You mean an 11 billion hit to social services. (and yeah i know my opinion on this item is juxtaposed to my opinion on addicts just above..but there it is. I have an opinion for every occassion and I know I am in the minority of folks who have opinions that don't connect to any one political philosophy, but I have my whole life weighed each topic on its own merrits, rather than the yankee A.O.C. version of opposing every single item that is right of center. 
I am opposed to cutting social services in general, but I would axe safe injection sites in particular. I am a weirdo, haha. 

[King Heffy]

3 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

I am a bit left, by all measures. I think that safe consumption sites are a blight on any local community they exist in. Evidence has been weighed now for twenty years and more: no city block has recovered from having a safe injection site and 90% of them are worse for having them. I am not sure the rights of the addict outweigh the rights of the business owners and home owners and kids walking to school through the mess. Involuntary treatment is where I am leaning these days. 

I'm in favor of keeping the injection sites and combining that with a crackdown over use in areas such as playgrounds.  The tent cities that we're getting are a bigger issue than the injection sites.

[Gurn]

governments didn't learn a freaking thing , after dumping the  mentally ill people out of the institutes, with minimal support.

go to safe injection sites- yay!

Not have rehab beds available --booooo.

 

If the government does something- at least do it well, no more half assing around.

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

I am of the opinion that reviving a homeless drug addict over and over is akin to waterboarding: if you come across them and they are gone, just have the mercy to leave them gone. I know it isn't a popular opinion, but it is my opinion. And yes I am sorry for your loss, loved ones of the homeless addicts that have OD'd, my opinion doesn't make me a horrible person. 

 

How about we have a separate and dedicated overdose facility?

 

[Optimist Prime]

6 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

How about we have a separate and dedicated overdose facility?

 

My crass wine fueled answer: why?

Do we really think any of the gumbies in downtown Duncan for instance, folded at the waist, heads on the toes of their shoes blissfully wacked out on whatever insane drugs the kids of Duncan shouldn't be exposed to will ever be productive members of society again? It is as sad as a psych patient in the 40s being lobotomized for not wanting to have sex with her husband. 

I am sure i will somewhat agree in the morning but right now i see it as good money thrown after bad to do that. I would rather a fully funded dedicated involuntary rehab center, with locks and bars. Edit part: make it a thousand nights in treatment for anyone found whacked out in public on opiods, with local quick judgements that don't clog up the rest of the justice system. Scoop em up high as fuck and they wake up in a detox center they can't leave for 1000 days. PHone calls, showers, clothes, food and treatment when they sober up in a days time. March them out the other end as completely different people. 

 

completely different topic: funny i am more right wing when i am drinking...someone should look into that as a phenomenon. hahaha.

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

My crass wine fueled answer: why?

Do we really think any of the gumbies in downtown Duncan for instance, folded at the waist, heads on the toes of their shoes blissfully wacked out on whatever insane drugs the kids of Duncan shouldn't be exposed to will ever be productive members of society again? It is as sad as a psych patient in the 40s being lobotomized for not wanting to have sex with her husband. 

I am sure i will somewhat agree in the morning but right now i see it as good money thrown after bad to do that. I would rather a fully funded dedicated involuntary rehab center, with locks and bars. 

 

completely different topic: funny i am more right wing when i am drinking...someone should look into that as a phenomenon. hahaha.

 

I guess for the ones that might recover?

 

This is one area where a private facility could really help. The province could probably be cost neutral on it, and it would really ease er issues.

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

6 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I guess for the ones that might recover?

 

This is one area where a private facility could really help. The province could probably be cost neutral on it, and it would really ease er issues.

 

 

Do you really believe for profit treatment will have results that aren't skewed towards more profit? 
no to for profit healthcare all around, imo. Again, i know I sound crass and inhumane, but i have family who are medics and firefighters: and my brother in law, a volunteer fire chief, has 7 cousins in his hall. They have for example revived the same woman, i don't know her name or where she lives, 9 times since 2020. That is just one person using hundreds of thousands of dollars of services now while she doesn't give a rip about her own life...why? Why revive that person? What outcome do the revivists think will happen for her in life? I really hate that some canadians were tortured in GITMO against my arguments in places of authority over my career, and i honestly believe that reviving this lady without treating her forcibly if need be is exactly like water boarding an inmate and 'killing them' 200 times in a decade...it is pure torture. Let her anguished soul go. 

 

edit: I will say to his credit that my highly conservative fire chief brother in law simply says that they are mandated to save her life every single time and they will continue to do just that. he said that with a look of sympathy towards my position but he is smart enough to mask his own opinioin in favour of the office he holds.

[Bob Long]

27 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Do you really believe for profit treatment will have results that aren't skewed towards more profit? 

 

 

Yes I do. I'm tired of hearing about "profit" as a reason to not make changes. No one works for free. 

 

If we can have a better system overall, why do you care if someone makes a business that way? Nearly everything you do has some kind of business attached to it.

 

Our system is in crisis and we need to get far more efficient. Government isn't always the best delivery system.

 

27 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

no to for profit healthcare all around, imo.

 

So where do you draw this line? Are you ok with buying drugs and devices from the US that are for profit, but god forbid we run a better type of private clinic? I don't get the resistance.

 

27 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

 

Again, i know I sound crass and inhumane, but i have family who are medics and firefighters: and my brother in law, a volunteer fire chief, has 7 cousins in his hall. They have for example revived the same woman, i don't know her name or where she lives, 9 times since 2020. That is just one person using hundreds of thousands of dollars of services now while she doesn't give a rip about her own life...why? Why revive that person? What outcome do the revivists think will happen for her in life? I really hate that some canadians were tortured in GITMO against my arguments in places of authority over my career, and i honestly believe that reviving this lady without treating her forcibly if need be is exactly like water boarding an inmate and 'killing them' 200 times in a decade...it is pure torture. Let her anguished soul go. 

 

edit: I will say to his credit that my highly conservative fire chief brother in law simply says that they are mandated to save her life every single time and they will continue to do just that. he said that with a look of sympathy towards my position but he is smart enough to mask his own opinioin in favour of the office he holds.

 

Dunno this is a tough question. If we are going to go down this path though I'd want to triage anti vaxxers too. 

[Optimist Prime]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Yes I do. I'm tired of hearing about "profit" as a reason to not make changes. No one works for free. 

 

If we can have a better system overall, why do you care if someone makes a business that way? Nearly everything you do has some kind of business attached to it.

 

Our system is in crisis and we need to get far more efficient. Government isn't always the best delivery system.

 

 

So where do you draw this line? Are you ok with buying drugs and devices from the US that are for profit, but god forbid we run a better type of private clinic? I don't get the resistance.

 

 

Dunno this is a tough question. If we are going to go down this path though I'd want to triage anti vaxxers too. 

I know myself and I will have a slightly different take in the morning, its been a couple bottles of vino. En Vino Veritas though i guess. 

[Bob Long]

4 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

I know myself and I will have a slightly different take in the morning, its been a couple bottles of vino. En Vino Veritas though i guess. 

 

It's all good, none of this is easy.

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

It's all good, none of this is easy.

 

 

I do want to affirm that I have never advocated tonights thoughts in any of my work that goes to political folks. I am aware my opinions on the  subject of addicted homeless are for want of a better word 'vile'. 

[Maninthebox]

[Bob Long]

8 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

I do want to affirm that I have never advocated tonights thoughts in any of my work that goes to political folks. I am aware my opinions on the  subject of addicted homeless are for want of a better word 'vile'. 

 

I think your thoughts come from a good place where you don't like to see constant suffering for no reason.