Bob Long Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Boudrias said: I think options have to be looked at. I do not understand why the 'back office' of health care is not standardized with a software program that delivers patient oversight and admin costs to government. about 8 years ago I was in a room for some of these discussions at the ADM level. A big barrier is the silo's that are created under our health authority system. Instead of having one HA with the necessary legal and procedural model in place, you need to do this six times and combine reports up to the ministry, its a big waste of time. We've seen some good movement on personal health records at least with health gateway. 26 minutes ago, Boudrias said: When you consider the $'s spent it seems like a no brainer. My wife's doctor still records long hand. Her office regularly loses referrals. The NDP will have a hard time defending their record here. The BC Cons are talking about some Euro models they want to try. Hopefully both parties will develop a fleshed out plan. IMO, fwiw, is we are continuing to try to force a model created decades ago on health needs that are vastly different today. Add to that, there's no incentive for ADM's and above to really take a risk to improve things. More beds, is pretty much the sum of their ideas. Add again, the real inventor and innovative class in healthcare isn't in the room for decision making. Innovations will have to come from the private sector, there's just no appetite for it in the ministry. Thats what I learned as a consultant. Edited August 21 by Bob Long 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 6 hours ago, Bob Long said: about 8 years ago I was in a room for some of these discussions at the ADM level. A big barrier is the silo's that are created under our health authority system. Instead of having one HA with the necessary legal and procedural model in place, you need to do this six times and combine reports up to the ministry, its a big waste of time. We've seen some good movement on personal health records at least with health gateway. IMO, fwiw, is we are continuing to try to force a model created decades ago on health needs that are vastly different today. Add to that, there's no incentive for ADM's and above to really take a risk to improve things. More beds, is pretty much the sum of their ideas. Add again, the real inventor and innovative class in healthcare isn't in the room for decision making. Innovations will have to come from the private sector, there's just no appetite for it in the ministry. Thats what I learned as a consultant. My guess too is you have a lot of clashing that commonly happens between tech and business, whether it's government or a large corporation. Often business doesn't understand the tech side and they "think" they're saving money by not upgrading their technology. Too much in the here and now and not looking into the future and the cycle just continues until you have legacy systems in place that might have well been created at the start of the human race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 11 minutes ago, The Lock said: My guess too is you have a lot of clashing that commonly happens between tech and business, whether it's government or a large corporation. Often business doesn't understand the tech side and they "think" they're saving money by not upgrading their technology. Too much in the here and now and not looking into the future and the cycle just continues until you have legacy systems in place that might have well been created at the start of the human race. Pretty much. Government isn't always the best choice to run things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) 7 hours ago, Boudrias said: I think options have to be looked at. I do not understand why the 'back office' of health care is not standardized with a software program that delivers patient oversight and admin costs to government. When you consider the $'s spent it seems like a no brainer. My wife's doctor still records long hand. Her office regularly loses referrals. The NDP will have a hard time defending their record here. The BC Cons are talking about some Euro models they want to try. Hopefully both parties will develop a fleshed out plan. We should. IIRC there was even plans for it a couple decades ago but it was expensive, got shelved and then power changes nixed it. Going to be even more expensive now. https://www.thetyee.ca/News/2023/06/01/Canada-Broken-Medical-Records/ Edited August 21 by aGENT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 One can argue that BC is the center of money laundering, drug production and distribution and loan sharking in Canada. Chinese gangs and possibly the Chinese government are involved. That said I cannot remember seeing any news on ongoing efforts to counter these crimes. No news and no major arrests. As we edge closer to a BC election day I hear only platitudes from the contending political parties on how they will counter these criminals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 (edited) 23 hours ago, Boudrias said: I think options have to be looked at. I do not understand why the 'back office' of health care is not standardized with a software program that delivers patient oversight and admin costs to government. When you consider the $'s spent it seems like a no brainer. My wife's doctor still records long hand. Her office regularly loses referrals. The NDP will have a hard time defending their record here. The BC Cons are talking about some Euro models they want to try. Hopefully both parties will develop a fleshed out plan. Just my opinion but it seems when you don't have a viable opposition for extended periods of time, there isn't the motivation by the governing party to do much of anything. Now, I"m not advocating a period of time where the Italian government had so many parties/splinter groups, they could never get anything done; but a real opposition would force the governing party to actually govern well (else be voted out). Edited August 22 by NewbieCanuckFan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 16 hours ago, aGENT said: We should. IIRC there was even plans for it a couple decades ago but it was expensive, got shelved and then power changes nixed it. Going to be even more expensive now. https://www.thetyee.ca/News/2023/06/01/Canada-Broken-Medical-Records/ Its one of the reasons I keep arguing for a single health authority 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 34 minutes ago, Boudrias said: One can argue that BC is the center of money laundering, drug production and distribution and loan sharking in Canada. Chinese gangs and possibly the Chinese government are involved. That said I cannot remember seeing any news on ongoing efforts to counter these crimes. No news and no major arrests. As we edge closer to a BC election day I hear only platitudes from the contending political parties on how they will counter these criminals. I dont know much about drug production in BC but with Vancouver being a big Port area/city the drugs will keep arriving by the container load. Really wish they would clamp down on the ports. Side not to this is I think it was good to repeal the decriminalisation. Not that I hate the idea but it wasn't supported and might have even given criminals an easy distrobution of their dirty drugs. As for money laundering, I found this.. https://vancouversun.com/business/b-c-introduces-measures-to-combat-money-laundering-includes-orders-to-explain-wealth One thing I would like to happen, being in law enforcement, is a crack down on repeat offenders. We have a person on the island doing the revolving door, in and out of prison,...has 110 charges. Its BS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 3 hours ago, Bob Long said: Its one of the reasons I keep arguing for a single health authority Or at least one unified oversight body, yes. I feel similarly about our myriad school districts. I feel like we could pretty easily whittle them down to like +/-20 "regions" from the hundreds of current, separate districts. And again, a province wide oversight body of some sort. Would do away with a LOT of administrative redundancy (precisely why none of those people are pushing for it) and minimize things like union negotiation etc. I'd also push for that oversight body to allow more free movement of employees. It's dumb that you can't currently carry your seniority etc from one district to another within BC for a lot of support staff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 4 hours ago, bishopshodan said: Side not to this is I think it was good to repeal the decriminalisation. Not that I hate the idea but it wasn't supported and might have even given criminals an easy distrobution of their dirty drugs. I'd prefer we actually follow through on actual, full support for people, than go back to what wasn't working either. The problem is that we only took one step forward on a longer journey. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 1 hour ago, aGENT said: Or at least one unified oversight body, yes Unfortunately no. That's just another name for a committee, which is the sure path to stalling any initiative. For healthcare you can't innovative service this way in any kind of timely way, just too many people that can say no or just not comply. 1 hour ago, aGENT said: I feel similarly about our myriad school districts. I feel like we could pretty easily whittle them down to like +/-20 "regions" from the hundreds of current, separate districts. And again, a province wide oversight body of some sort. Would do away with a LOT of administrative redundancy (precisely why none of those people are pushing for it) and minimize things like union negotiation etc. I'd also push for that oversight body to allow more free movement of employees. It's dumb that you can't currently carry your seniority etc from one district to another within BC for a lot of support staff. Our school districts are ridiculously over managed too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 1 hour ago, Bob Long said: Unfortunately no. That's just another name for a committee, which is the sure path to stalling any initiative. For healthcare you can't innovative service this way in any kind of timely way, just too many people that can say no or just not comply. I think it depends how it's set up. One overarching body that determines provincial frameworks and standards and allows for the smaller entities to "self govern' within that? Should the Ministry have a bigger oversight role, is that what you're suggesting? 1 hour ago, Bob Long said: Our school districts are ridiculously over managed too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arrogant Worms Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 B.C.'s rental protection fund helps non-profits secure nearly 1,500 homes, says Eby NORTH VANCOUVER, B.C. — A British Columbia government fund to help non-profits buy rental buildings to protect tenants from eviction and maintain affordable rents is on track to exceed its target of 2,000 homes. https://www.timescolonist.com/bc-news/bcs-rental-protection-fund-helps-non-profits-secure-nearly-1500-homes-says-eby-9391484 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 1 hour ago, aGENT said: I think it depends how it's set up. One overarching body that determines provincial frameworks and standards and allows for the smaller entities to "self govern' within that? Should the Ministry have a bigger oversight role, is that what you're suggesting? its about governance and who actually carries the big stick. Compliance is a really big problem when trying to implement something through 6 health authorities. Lots of ways for people to grind things to a halt, and it happens all the time. We're hanging on to an old, very silo idea of how to manage healthcare. There's just no reason to have six of the damn things for 5 million people. If we have one, it removes all of the old barriers to implementing province wide ideas like a standard ehealth system. Or providing hospital privileges to new physicians. Or training. On and on. We don't actually need more overarching bodies or committees, we actually need fewer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 4 minutes ago, Bob Long said: its about governance and who actually carries the big stick. Compliance is a really big problem when trying to implement something through 6 health authorities. Lots of ways for people to grind things to a halt, and it happens all the time. We're hanging on to an old, very silo idea of how to manage healthcare. There's just no reason to have six of the damn things for 5 million people. If we have one, it removes all of the old barriers to implementing province wide ideas like a standard ehealth system. Or providing hospital privileges to new physicians. Or training. On and on. We don't actually need more overarching bodies or committees, we actually need fewer. So how do we get there (health and education?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 1 minute ago, aGENT said: So how do we get there (health and education?) For starters, he'll want to deep-six the BC NDP government as step 1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 4 minutes ago, aGENT said: So how do we get there (health and education?) well, for health we need someone with the cajones to consolidate all health authorities into one. People in rural areas will likely lose their shizz, and you know what those island hippies are like. But if it also comes with a solid plan for faster better services I think people might be willing to give it a chance. Education will be really hard. That union is so tied into the BC NDP I'm not sure it's possible, but something similar. Maybe they could get behind reduction in some of these salaries, I mean look at how much is being paid out in K-12 senior admin: https://www.publicsectorcompensation.gov.bc.ca/executive-compensation-disclosures/2022-2023 328k to run the Burnaby school district e.g.? holy crackers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 (edited) 18 hours ago, Bob Long said: well, for health we need someone with the cajones to consolidate all health authorities into one. People in rural areas will likely lose their shizz, and you know what those island hippies are like. But if it also comes with a solid plan for faster better services I think people might be willing to give it a chance. Education will be really hard. That union is so tied into the BC NDP I'm not sure it's possible, but something similar. Maybe they could get behind reduction in some of these salaries, I mean look at how much is being paid out in K-12 senior admin: https://www.publicsectorcompensation.gov.bc.ca/executive-compensation-disclosures/2022-2023 328k to run the Burnaby school district e.g.? holy crackers. I dont know if the salaries are that out of whack. It's 2024. I wouldn't do those jobs for less. I'm someone that wants great wages for healthcare, education, and public safety. If those areas were the paid very well, they would attract the best (and enough) people, setting us up for a healthier, smarter, safer, better future. Edited August 23 by bishopshodan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 1 hour ago, bishopshodan said: I know some people on that list. Weird knowing their salary. Btw, superintendents are not union. I know, sorry for the confusion. It's just anything education in BC gets the union going. 1 hour ago, bishopshodan said: I dont know if the salaries are that out of whack. It's 2024. I wouldn't do those jobs for less. I'm someone that wants great wages for healthcare, education, and public safety. If those areas were the paid very well, they would attract the best (and enough) people, setting us up for a healthier, smarter, safer, better future. Its about the total number of positions as well as the salaries, both are too high imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bob Long said: Its about the total number of positions as well as the salaries, both are too high imo. The amount of positions seems high. That said, i wish I understood the system better. I know of a few mgmt positions, top jobs, where they have had to temp pull people out of retirement to run things. ( including where I work) If the salaries are high, they shouldnt have issues finding people to fill the top spots. Edited August 23 by bishopshodan 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 (edited) 3 hours ago, bishopshodan said: The amount of positions seems high. That said, i wish I understood the system better. I know of a few mgmt positions, top jobs, where they have had to temp pull people out of retirement to run things. ( including where I work) for me its more about the number of positions than the salaries (but I do question the Burnaby school district manager making nearly as much as the PM). It breaks down to something like being responsible for 25/26 schools (1570/60 districts) for 300k. If we consolidated that to 40-50 schools for the same manager salary, would we even notice? Plus the savings on the board trustee salaries. The Fraser Institute did an interesting study on education spending and they did show spending actually doesn't correlate well with outcomes. BC in fact had some of the lowest spending with higher outcomes, which tells me we have some good teachers. 3 hours ago, bishopshodan said: If the salaries are high, they shouldnt have issues finding people to fill the top spots. yea thats an interesting issue, but it could be that people just don't want to work in those agencies for some reason. Hard to say. 3 hours ago, bishopshodan said: . We're going to need to have tough conversations if we want to improve things in our government services. I know the health system better, and have seen the fat and disinterest in change first hand and it's repulsive. As far as education goes, I really have a hard time seeing why we need 60 districts. Would someone e.g., have been less effective if she had 40 schools instead of 25 e.g.? dunno, I'd like to hear their thoughts on if consolidation is viable or if there's a really good reason for 60 of them with the additional boards. 3 hours ago, bishopshodan said: My nephew ( one of my other sisters sons) graduated highschool, did his business batchelors at UVic, got a job at a development company, received a promotion to entry level mgmt. He doesnt make too much less than folks on the list He just bought a nice apt in olympic village and is looking for a second. He's 26! Thats why I think the salaries are inline. love the village, lived there for 5 years. Edited August 23 by Bob Long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bob Long said: for me its more about the number of positions than the salaries (but I do question the Burnaby school district manager making nearly as much as the PM). It breaks down to something like being responsible for 25/26 schools (1570/60 districts) for 300k. If we consolidated that to 40-50 schools for the same manager salary, would we even notice? Plus the savings on the board trustee salaries. The Fraser Institute did an interesting study on education spending and they did show spending actually doesn't correlate well with outcomes. BC in fact had some of the lowest spending with higher outcomes, which tells me we have some good teachers. yea thats an interesting issue, but it could be that people just don't want to work in those agencies for some reason. Hard to say. We're going to need to have tough conversations if we want to improve things in our government services. I know the health system better, and have seen the fat and disinterest in change first hand and it's repulsive. As far as education goes, I really have a hard time seeing why we need 60 districts. Eww, the Frasier Institute. ( I kid, kinda) You make some good points and I cant speak to if there are too many postions. I dont know the system enough. However, I think top people wages in education should be on par with top doctors. The best people will chase the top dollars, thats why companies snap up great folk like my nephew. Capitalism for the win Jimmy! Edited August 23 by bishopshodan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 5 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Eww, the Frasier Institute. ( I kid, kinda) yeah I know, waiting for the blowback from the usuals but the raw numbers in that study are really interesting. 5 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: You make some good points and I cant speak to if there are too many postions. I dont know the system enough. for health, its about two things - one of course trimming admin fat, but even more important is cutting the number of people that can say "no". It's a huge problem in our system, so many ways to tank good ideas. If you ever wonder why it's so hard to implement something, thats your #1 candidate. My education knowledge (for lack of a better term) comes via my wife's experiences. 5 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: However, I think top people wages in education should be on par with top doctors. The best people will chase the top dollars, thats why companies snap up great folk like my nephew. Capitalism for the win Jimmy! they will for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 2 minutes ago, Bob Long said: they will for sure. A guy just quoted my neighbour to do his fencing at $120 per hour. The guy doing my car resto is $100 per hour. My nephew-in-law is $75+ per hour to operate his excavator. I dont know what people should be paid these days but these examples show that there are classic jobs that pay well. Jobs that require very little education too, so they avoid that pesky law of diminishing returns due to student debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, bishopshodan said: A guy just quoted my neighbour to do his fencing at $120 per hour. The guy doing my car resto is $100 per hour. My nephew-in-law is $75+ per hour to operate his excavator. I dont know what people should be paid these days but these examples show that there are classic jobs that pay well. Jobs that require very little education too, so they avoid that pesky law of diminishing returns due to student debt. Compensation is a difficult discussion. Something I heard once is you are worth what people will pay you. I don't really agree with that because I know people who make $25 per hour looking after vulnerable seniors. I've met deputy ministers who were complete wastes of space. Id rather pay someone 450k per year to run 50 schools than two people at 338 to run 26 each, if it's possible to do that and not reduce education quality. Edited August 23 by Bob Long 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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