aGENT Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 37 minutes ago, Bob Long said: What is the term we are using? Fair share? Who decides what "profiteering" is? I see knee jerk reaction to ceo salaries, I see very little critical analysis of whats fair and the correct strategy for Canada. Are you kidding me right now? Are you trying to pretend these aren't real issues? https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2022/ Quote Cumulatively, however, from 1978–2022, top CEO compensation shot up 1,209.2% compared with a 15.3% increase in a typical worker’s compensation. In 2022, CEOs were paid 344 times as much as a typical worker in contrast to 1965 when they were paid 21 times as much as a typical worker. And then they make less "salary" and pay less taxes than you or I do. Does that sound "fair" to you? https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/inflation-affordability-corporate-profits-1.6360277 Quote Oil and gas is hardly the only sector enjoying higher profits while consumers pay more. A similar story is unfolding for grocery store chains, home and auto insurance companies, Starbucks and Burger King, to name a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 (edited) 6 hours ago, aGENT said: Large corporations, CEO's... Are you seriously denying that large corporations and ultra-wealthy people aren't paying their fair share of taxes and that some companies have been profiteering...? They pay tax according to the tax code and according to the loopholes in the tax code. Who approves the tax code? Would you seriously pay more tax than you had to legally if you could find a way not to? Edited September 6 by Elias Pettersson 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: They pay tax according to the tax code and according to the loopholes in the tax code. Who approves the tax code? Would you seriously pay more tax than you had to legally if you could find a way not to? Left wing politics is often stupifying. Consider the Canfor decision to shut 2 sawmills in northern BC. The Americans double the softwood lumber tariff which makes dimensional lumber mills unprofitable. Do British Columbians even consider the lack of action on this file by our federal government a issue? It doesn't appear so at the provincial or federal level. The union response at these 2 mills is to confiscate Canfor's tree licenses. Canfor's investment sits idle, no return. Yet they are labeled the profiteers. Further south the 2 pulp mills in Prince George are now on the edge of closure. Canfor has moved their investment out of BC. Their sales are now 1/3 BC, 1/3 USA & 1/3 Sweden. Teck's new copper mine is in Chile, Enbridge and Trans Canada are now fundamentally American companies. Fortis and Emera generate more sales in the USA than Canada. The point is that Canada/BC have to defend our vital interest and create an environment where investment is rewarded. What appears to carry the day are the people who want to spend money but have no idea how to make it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 12 hours ago, aGENT said: Are you kidding me right now? Are you trying to pretend these aren't real issues? https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2022/ And then they make less "salary" and pay less taxes than you or I do. Does that sound "fair" to you? https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/inflation-affordability-corporate-profits-1.6360277 Do the math. What percentage of your grocery bill is ceo salary, eg. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 7 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: They pay tax according to the tax code and according to the loopholes in the tax code. Who approves the tax code? Would you seriously pay more tax than you had to legally if you could find a way not to? That doesn't seem to be the conversation. More so, fix the loopholes and dont give the utlra-rich the option to pay less than their fair share. Yes, it's the gov setting the tax, so make sure we have the right gov in place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 46 minutes ago, Boudrias said: Left wing politics is often stupifying. Consider the Canfor decision to shut 2 sawmills in northern BC. The Americans double the softwood lumber tariff which makes dimensional lumber mills unprofitable. Do British Columbians even consider the lack of action on this file by our federal government a issue? It doesn't appear so at the provincial or federal level. The union response at these 2 mills is to confiscate Canfor's tree licenses. Canfor's investment sits idle, no return. Yet they are labeled the profiteers. Further south the 2 pulp mills in Prince George are now on the edge of closure. Canfor has moved their investment out of BC. Their sales are now 1/3 BC, 1/3 USA & 1/3 Sweden. Teck's new copper mine is in Chile, Enbridge and Trans Canada are now fundamentally American companies. Fortis and Emera generate more sales in the USA than Canada. The point is that Canada/BC have to defend our vital interest and create an environment where investment is rewarded. What appears to carry the day are the people who want to spend money but have no idea how to make it. It gets frustrating for me to watch people talk about what business "should" do from whatever issue or angle that happens to irk them. The market will decide. Government shouldn't be involved in red herring issues like ceo pay, they should regulate, tax, and help defend industry where they can. But instead we see this 'us vs them' attitude from the NDP. Do they want successful industries in BC or not? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 8 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: They pay tax according to the tax code and according to the loopholes in the tax code. Who approves the tax code? Would you seriously pay more tax than you had to legally if you could find a way not to? That's kind of what we're discussing there Petey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 10 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Do the math. What percentage of your grocery bill is ceo salary, eg. That's not the point. You know that's not the point. This is hilariously stupid, especially after the "for the cost of a coffee a day" discussion a couple days ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 1 minute ago, aGENT said: That's not the point. You know that's not the point. This is hilariously stupid, especially after the "for the cost of a coffee a day" discussion a couple days ago. So whats the point then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 56 minutes ago, Boudrias said: Left wing politics is often stupifying. Consider the Canfor decision to shut 2 sawmills in northern BC. The Americans double the softwood lumber tariff which makes dimensional lumber mills unprofitable. Do British Columbians even consider the lack of action on this file by our federal government a issue? It doesn't appear so at the provincial or federal level. The union response at these 2 mills is to confiscate Canfor's tree licenses. Canfor's investment sits idle, no return. Yet they are labeled the profiteers. Further south the 2 pulp mills in Prince George are now on the edge of closure. Canfor has moved their investment out of BC. Their sales are now 1/3 BC, 1/3 USA & 1/3 Sweden. Teck's new copper mine is in Chile, Enbridge and Trans Canada are now fundamentally American companies. Fortis and Emera generate more sales in the USA than Canada. The point is that Canada/BC have to defend our vital interest and create an environment where investment is rewarded. What appears to carry the day are the people who want to spend money but have no idea how to make it. Again, this isn't about companies making profit and having success. Nobody is against that. Profiteering, and not paying a fair share taxes are a very real problem with some corporations and CEOs. Particularly large ones (or industries) able to lobby governments for favourable (lax) tax laws. There's been countless studies that show this is very much true. That they're paying historically low taxes. That CEOs are making historically high pay (while paying little to no taxes). That some industries did indeed profiteer using the pandemic as an excuse to pad historically high profits. It's not some "commie scheme to screw the rich". The ultra rich are already screwing us. As for softwood tariffs, people do indeed care about it. It's scummy and sucks. But it's also been happening for DECADES with Canada seemingly having little recourse. We go get it shot down, they stop for a while, then they do it again. Do you actually have some suggestion on how to get the US to stop playing this stupid game or are you just going to continue to blame working Canadians for tariffs they have no control over? 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 10 minutes ago, Bob Long said: So whats the point then ? That changing/amending/adding laws to get companies/ultra rich that are clearly profiteering and/or not paying taxes to... pay more taxes....? This is not complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 (edited) 30 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: That doesn't seem to be the conversation. More so, fix the loopholes and dont give the utlra-rich the option to pay less than their fair share. Yes, it's the gov setting the tax, so make sure we have the right gov in place? Yes, the conversation was about the rich paying their fair share. They pay tax according to the tax code. That's how it works. Who approved the tax code? The government. Many governments have been involved and the tax code never changes. So, don't hold your breath for any new politicians to change it. Remember, politicians have to pay tax too. Edited September 6 by Elias Pettersson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 4 minutes ago, aGENT said: That changing/amending/adding laws to get companies/ultra rich that are clearly profiteering and/or not paying taxes to... pay more taxes....? This is not complicated. how much more do you expect to get? really, I'd like to know what you think the difference would be. Not saying it shouldn't be done, but whats the amount you think this would be? And how does any of this help us support our industries in Canada, because I see nothing of that from the NDP side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 5 minutes ago, aGENT said: Again, this isn't about companies making profit and having success. Nobody is against that. Profiteering, and not paying a fair share taxes are a very real problem with some corporations and CEOs. Particularly large ones (or industries) able to lobby governments for favourable (lax) tax laws. There's been countless studies that show this is very much true. That they're paying historically low taxes. That CEOs are making historically high pay (while paying little to no taxes). That some industries did indeed profiteer using the pandemic as an excuse to pad historically high profits. It's not some "commie scheme to screw the rich". The ultra rich are already screwing us. As for softwood tariffs, people do indeed care about it. It's scummy and sucks. But it's also been happening for DECADES with Canada seemingly having little recourse. We go get it shot down, they stop for a while, then they do it again. Do you actually have some suggestion on how to get the US to stop playing this stupid game or are you just going to continue to blame working Canadians for tariffs they have no control over? I was thinking much the same. It's pretty rich to criticize the current government over American tariffs.....especially considering that it happened under the BC Liberals and Harper Conservatives as well. I think it's also worth noting at this point, that Canada could have done much worse in the resurrected NAFTA negotiations. It was thanks to Chrystia Freeland that they didn't. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 28 minutes ago, aGENT said: That's kind of what we're discussing there Petey. Yes. So, why would a CEO pay more tax than they have to? Which of your governments that you favour is going to change the tax code? The Green party? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Yes, the conversation was about the rich paying their fair share. They pay tax according to the tax code. That's how it works. Who approved the tax code? The government. Many government have been involved and the tax code never changes. So, don't hold your breath for any new politician to change it. Remember, politicians have to pay tax too. who's been running BC since 2017? why haven't they raised taxes more? because they already have: https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/canadas-rising-personal-tax-rates-and-falling-tax-competitiveness-2024.pdf At some point you've already raised them to the point where you risk being really uncompetitive. If you're out of ideas after that, then we're in real trouble. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said: Yes, the conversation was about the rich paying their fair share. They pay tax according to the tax code. That's how it works. Who approved the tax code? The government. Many governments have been involved and the tax code never changes. So, don't hold your breath for any new politicians to change it. Remember, politicians have to pay tax too. I think we are agreeing in part here my man. That the gov controls it. Their 'fair share' though, is not 'pay tax according to the tax code' I know the rich own the government so I wont hold my breath. But the convo is that the rich should pay more. That the current set up is not....fair. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 1 minute ago, bishopshodan said: I think we are agreeing in part here my man. That the gov controls it. Their 'fair share' though, is not 'pay tax according to the tax code' I know the rich own the government so I wont hold my breath. But the convo is that the rich should pay more. That the current set up is not....fair. do you really think the rich own the NDP in BC? truly? Or is it more that there's an actual limit to taxation and competitiveness, and there's a balance there all governments realize they need to meet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: who's been running BC since 2017? why haven't they raised taxes more? because they already have: https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/canadas-rising-personal-tax-rates-and-falling-tax-competitiveness-2024.pdf At some point you've already raised them to the point where you risk being really uncompetitive. If you're out of ideas after that, then we're in real trouble. The NDP has been in power since 2017. So, which tax code did they change to collect more provincial taxes from the rich CEO's and corporations? I'll wait for an answer but I certainly won't get one. Also, changing the tax brackets isn't going to get CEO's to pay more tax. They already are above every tax bracket. They use corporations, shell companies, trusts and loopholes to avoid paying taxes. Why hasn't ANY government changed this over the last 50+ years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 4 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: I think we are agreeing in part here my man. That the gov controls it. Their 'fair share' though, is not 'pay tax according to the tax code' I know the rich own the government so I wont hold my breath. But the convo is that the rich should pay more. That the current set up is not....fair. Again, if the rich SHOULD pay more, then why hasn't any government over the last 50+ years forced them too? Politicians need to pay taxes too. What is the net worth of the richest politicians? Once you figure this out you will know why they don't bother changing the tax code and fixing the loopholes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 Just now, Elias Pettersson said: The NDP has been in power since 2017. So, which tax code did they change to collect more provincial taxes from the rich CEO's and corporations? I'll wait for an answer but I certainly won't get one. Also, changing the tax brackets isn't going to get CEO's to pay more tax. They already are above every tax bracket. They use corporations, shell companies, trusts and loopholes to avoid paying taxes. Why hasn't ANY government changed this over the last 50+ years? well, Trudeau did go after capital gains and took at beating for it. But thats the kind of move needed to access the money. And the NDP hate him for it even though that was a serious card to play. Meanwhile, nothing is happening about Canada's productivity, supporting our new ventures through the valley of death or being scooped up by the US, etc etc. But hey, Galen made $X so I'm mad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 14 minutes ago, RupertKBD said: I was thinking much the same. It's pretty rich to criticize the current government over American tariffs.....especially considering that it happened under the BC Liberals and Harper Conservatives as well. I think it's also worth noting at this point, that Canada could have done much worse in the resurrected NAFTA negotiations. It was thanks to Chrystia Freeland that they didn't. I seem to remember the Cons moaning and complaining that Freeland didn't bend over and acquiesce to the American demands. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 2 minutes ago, King Heffy said: I seem to remember the Cons moaning and complaining that Freeland didn't bend over and acquiesce to the American demands. They certainly did....one of the loudest was the Kingmaker himself: Stephen Harper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 12 minutes ago, Bob Long said: do you really think the rich own the NDP in BC? truly? Or is it more that there's an actual limit to taxation and competitiveness, and there's a balance there all governments realize they need to meet. I think all govs are essentially owned. Are there lobby groups in BC? I'm still pissed about the Alc warning labels being removed. Was a Uvic initiative but the BC gov reversed their allowance of it after pressure. Can you believe that pointing out, like cigs, that booze causes cancer isnt allowed on the label? It should be a fed mandated thing, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 13 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Again, if the rich SHOULD pay more, then why hasn't any government over the last 50+ years forced them too? Politicians need to pay taxes too. What is the net worth of the richest politicians? Once you figure this out you will know why they don't bother changing the tax code and fixing the loopholes... Again Peepy, Because the rich own the gov and the politicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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