Bob Long Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 6 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: I think all govs are essentially owned. Are there lobby groups in BC? I'm with you on changing how lobbying is done. All of it needs to be done out in the open, full public record. 6 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: I'm still pissed about the Alc warning labels being removed. Was a Uvic initiative but the BC gov reversed their allowance of it after pressure. Can you believe that pointing out, like cigs, that booze causes cancer isnt allowed on the label? It should be a fed mandated thing, actually. booze taxes are too important to the bottom line. Shouldn't that tell us something about how we need to support other tax generating businesses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Bob Long said: I'm with you on changing how lobbying is done. All of it needs to be done out in the open, full public record. booze taxes are too important to the bottom line. Shouldn't that tell us something about how we need to support other tax generating businesses? Tells me that the govs are inline with the greedy pigs to all of our detriment. Edited September 6 by bishopshodan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 14 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Again Peepy, Because the rich own the gov and the politicians. Yes, so how is that ever going to change? It won't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 7 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Tell me that the govs are inline with the greedy pigs to all of our detriment. If we had a broader tax base, we could regulate big booze a lot more. But will we ever be rid of alcohol addiction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Yes, so how is that ever going to change? It won't... When was I saying it was going to change? Calling it how I see it. In the meantime I will support anyone that talks the good talk, even if its idealistic and vague. I'm a forward thinker. If more were like me, humans might have a chance. But most are set in their ways and think they have it all figured out, while the world crumbles. Its why I didnt breed homie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 Just now, bishopshodan said: When was I saying it was going to change? Calling it how I see it. In the meantime I will support anyone that talks the good talk, even if its idealistic and vague. I'm a forward thinker. If more were like me, humans might have a chance. But most are set in their ways and think they have it all figured out, while the world crumbles. Its why I didnt breed homie. I didn't breed either. Life just won't be the same when me and you are gone really... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 4 minutes ago, Bob Long said: But will we ever be rid of alcohol addiction? Warning labels help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I didn't breed either. Life just won't be the same when me and you are gone really... I'm solipsistic. So, i really dont know why I do all this to myself. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arrogant Worms Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 47 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Warning labels help. Warning labels help? I don't think so for someone who is going to drink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satchmo Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 2 hours ago, Boudrias said: Left wing politics is often stupifying. Could the same be said for right wing politics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 Just now, The Arrogant Worms said: Warning labels help? I don't think so for someone who is going to drink. How would you know? as there are not warning labels on Alc right now. They have helped with cigs. But at minimum, the public should be aware that alc can cause cancer. It could turn off people that are new to booze and add a bit of encouragement to those trying to quit/reduce. However, thats extra to my point. There was a brief study by Uvic where they were allowed to put warning labels on booze, gov allowed it at first then reversed the decision after pressure from the alc companies. Thats BS and was a small example of gov being controlled by big money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 56 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: When was I saying it was going to change? Calling it how I see it. In the meantime I will support anyone that talks the good talk, even if its idealistic and vague. I'm a forward thinker. If more were like me, humans might have a chance. But most are set in their ways and think they have it all figured out, while the world crumbles I don't disagree with you on the ideals, but I don't see how your guys can get it done. We all have to work as partners, and I don't see the NDP acting like they want that version of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: Yes. So, why would a CEO pay more tax than they have to? Who here is suggesting CEO's would pay more tax than they're obligated to? Literally nobody is suggesting that. WTF are you going on about? 3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: Which of your governments that you favour is going to change the tax code? The Green party? The NDP federally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 5 minutes ago, aGENT said: Who here is suggesting CEO's would pay more tax than they're obligated to? Literally nobody is suggesting that. WTF are you going on about? The NDP federally. Yeah, good luck with that. They will never form the government, and if they are telling you they will change the tax code, they are lying to you... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 3 hours ago, Bob Long said: who's been running BC since 2017? why haven't they raised taxes more? because they already have: https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/canadas-rising-personal-tax-rates-and-falling-tax-competitiveness-2024.pdf At some point you've already raised them to the point where you risk being really uncompetitive. If you're out of ideas after that, then we're in real trouble. And that's great provincially. Look what good the NDP did. And yes, Provincially there's not much more they can do given current circumstances due to equally/more lax tax laws in other provinces and countries. 4 hours ago, Bob Long said: how much more do you expect to get? really, I'd like to know what you think the difference would be. Not saying it shouldn't be done, but whats the amount you think this would be? And how does any of this help us support our industries in Canada, because I see nothing of that from the NDP side. The larger discussion of "fair" taxes, profiteering etc is more of a federal issue. The changes to capital gains was a decent start there and is projected to add ~$4B/year to the budget FYI. But that probably doesn't make up very much of a percentage of my grocery bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arrogant Worms Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 3 hours ago, bishopshodan said: How would you know? as there are not warning labels on Alc right now. They have helped with cigs. But at minimum, the public should be aware that alc can cause cancer. It could turn off people that are new to booze and add a bit of encouragement to those trying to quit/reduce. However, thats extra to my point. There was a brief study by Uvic where they were allowed to put warning labels on booze, gov allowed it at first then reversed the decision after pressure from the alc companies. Thats BS and was a small example of gov being controlled by big money. How would I know? I used to be an alcoholic....still am technically I guess. Thats how I would know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 3 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said: How would I know? I used to be an alcoholic....still am technically I guess. Thats how I would know. Dont want to beat a dead horse, as it was just an example for the convo of gov doing the wrong thing. imo. The 'how would you know' was simply that you very likely have never experienced alc with warning labels, so you dont know if they would have had any effect on you. Maybe, before you even tried the sauce, if there was labels you might have been more informed and made different choices. I obviously dont know your story but just pointing out that knowledge is power. Good for you getting on the right side of alc though my man, that is tough AF. And thanks for sharing, I beleive being open about addiction and the struggles can help others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 1 hour ago, aGENT said: And that's great provincially. Look what good the NDP did. And yes, Provincially there's not much more they can do given current circumstances due to equally/more lax tax laws in other provinces and countries. The larger discussion of "fair" taxes, profiteering etc is more of a federal issue. The changes to capital gains was a decent start there and is projected to add ~$4B/year to the budget FYI. But that probably doesn't make up very much of a percentage of my grocery bill You and I have different definitions of great. Health care is still nowhere near where it needs to be, the drug crisis was fumbled, Eby has done very little for market housing. But sure let's worry about public company executive salaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 Just now, Bob Long said: You and I have different definitions of great. Health care is still nowhere near where it needs to be, the drug crisis was fumbled, Eby has done very little for market housing. But sure let's worry about public company executive salaries. That's highly disingenuous. They've done more for health care in the last ~5 years than the last 4 governments combined. They made vast and sweeping changes in regards to housing as well. Neither of those things are going to make 180 degree turns in the time frames we're dealing with here. Drug crisis fumble? Sure. The real problem is not having the other pieces in place (support facilities, mental health, staffing etc) to support decriminalization (which is still the right thing to do). They also did what good governments do and adjusted on the fly when what they tried wasn't working, rather than doubling down on ideology. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the destroyer of worlds Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 11 minutes ago, aGENT said: That's highly disingenuous. They've done more for health care in the last ~5 years than the last 4 governments combined. They made vast and sweeping changes in regards to housing as well. Neither of those things are going to make 180 degree turns in the time frames we're dealing with here. Drug crisis fumble? Sure. The real problem is not having the other pieces in place (support facilities, mental health, staffing etc) to support decriminalization (which is still the right thing to do). They also did what good governments do and adjusted on the fly when what they tried wasn't working, rather than doubling down on ideology. You forgot safe supply. Fentanyl a major problem and getting it out of the drug supply is going to require significant changes that a significant portion of our population is against. Hell, the BC CONs essentially want to go the other way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 4 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: I didn't breed either. Life just won't be the same when me and you are gone really... You're 25 years-old, calm down 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arrogant Worms Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 BC United to run some candidates to keep party name alive, despite halting campaign VICTORIA — British Columbia's Official Opposition BC United party now says it will run some candidates in the Oct. 19 election, despite suspending its campaign last week to support the B.C. Conservative Party instead https://www.timescolonist.com/national-news/bc-united-to-run-some-candidates-to-keep-party-name-alive-despite-halting-campaign-9486588 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arrogant Worms Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 Involuntary mental health care must be 'dignified and humane,' B.C. premier says VANCOUVER — Premier David Eby says mental health care in the province for those committed against their will needs to be "dignified and humane" to be effective, as his government works on a strategy about involuntary care. https://www.timescolonist.com/national-news/involuntary-mental-health-care-must-be-dignified-and-humane-bc-premier-says-9486384 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 (edited) 14 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said: Involuntary mental health care must be 'dignified and humane,' B.C. premier says VANCOUVER — Premier David Eby says mental health care in the province for those committed against their will needs to be "dignified and humane" to be effective, as his government works on a strategy about involuntary care. https://www.timescolonist.com/national-news/involuntary-mental-health-care-must-be-dignified-and-humane-bc-premier-says-9486384 Speaking of the mental health/addiction crisis... I hope they build up the needed support services, like this involuntary care facility (and yes, safe supply @the destroyer of worlds) and try decriminalization again when that's all up and functioning. They put the cart before the horse on this. Lesson learned. Edited September 6 by aGENT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted September 6 Share Posted September 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, aGENT said: Speaking of the mental health/addiction crisis... I hope they build up the needed support services, like this involuntary care facility (and yes, safe supply @the destroyer of worlds) and try decriminalization again when that's all up and functioning. They put the cart before the horse on this. Lesson learned. Ooo, rabbit hole time. Regarding mental health and addiction, I hope they don't just build needed services, but build up the needed wraparound services. Addiction and mental health are multifaceted things, so any response needs to be nuanced and multifaceted as well. Furthermore, services and resources, particularly when it comes to the involuntary bits, need to operate, at least in part, from a trauma informed approach across the board. Being drawn into mental health systems, the experiences within said systems, and people's experiences (especially in regards to involuntary care) can absolutely be, or have been, traumatizing. It's best to operate from the approach that individuals have experienced trauma of some sort. It's also important to factor in how aspects like poverty, race, ethnicity, culture, and so on intersect with addiction and mental health, and these should ultimately play a role in how addiction and mental health are approached. For example, taking a white, Eurocentric approach to addressing the mental health of Indigenous individuals and communities may not have the best results. Same goes for addiction. Westernized views of medicine, illness, wellness, healing and so on may not always be applicable, nor will they always be the most appropriate or beneficial. What constitutes "wellness" on it's own is nuanced. It's also not enough to build and develop resources, but to actually commit to adequately fund them on a long-term basis. A lot of the time approaches to tackling things like addiction and mental health seem to be piecemeal at best, there is no hope of adequately addressing either of these things without resources, infrastructure, funding, and qualified staff imo. Bottom line is it's gonna take money, but if we're gonna invest in anything it may as well be people's wellness. Also, much has been said of Riverview since it's been shut down, but they'd be wise to consider non-institutional options as well, such as a community-based approach to mental health. There are pros and cons to various models, such as the typically dominant medical model or a community-based model, but a diverse approach might have better results. Obviously various scenarios may be appropriate in certain instances, but ideally mental health care is individualized and approached on a case by case basis anyway. But yeah, options. It's not enough to be dignified and humane, it's gotta be ethical too, which is what I typically bring up when folks speak of things like forced rehabilitation for drug use; it wouldn't work anyway, recovery is nuanced too and can't be forced. One might be able to force someone to detox, it's something else entirely to try and force someone to start walking a recovery journey. Decriminalization is a worthy goal, but yeah, there's a lot that needs to be done. Regarding mental health, it's also worth questioning what recovery, wellness, and living with dignity looks like, because those are broad concepts as well. It's also worth questioning the funding provided to those who'll never be able to live typically "healthy" lives, such as those on disability. Some folks can't live independently, some experienced limitations regarding their engaging in the workforce or simply cannot, and on and on. But for those who can live independently, or in an assisted living scenario, and for those who can't, what community resources exist? What does discharge planning look like and what ongoing supports exist? Because it's tough to connect folks with supports that don't exist. More than likely some of what I've mentioned already exists in some degree, though it'll vary from community to community, but I'd love to see BC be more progressive on a lot of these matters, so I'm a tad considered about the possibility of the Cons getting in. Edited September 6 by Coconuts 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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