B.C. Politics Thread

[Combover]

 

hahaha 

the NDP are such a freaking joke.

So get rid of the carbon tax they said repeatedly they couldn’t 

now involuntary treatment for a problem they’ve created by becoming the country’s biggest drug dealers with the miserable failure of legalizing meth.
 

best part is if they get elected they won’t do either.

 

4 years of tough love with Cons sounds better every time Eby talks. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Combover said:

 

hahaha 

the NDP are such a freaking joke.

So get rid of the carbon tax they said repeatedly they couldn’t 

now involuntary treatment for a problem they’ve created by becoming the country’s biggest drug dealers with the miserable failure of legalizing meth.
 

best part is if they get elected they won’t do either.

 

4 years of tough love with Cons sounds better every time Eby talks. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is funny. It means to me that the NDP internal polling has Eby as nervous as a virgin on prom night.

 

[aGENT]

31 minutes ago, Combover said:

.

So get rid of the carbon tax they said repeatedly they couldn’t 

 

 

They can't. They're currently required to have one. Unless/until the federal cons get in and "axe the tax", which is what they're discussing here. Then they'll be able to change it.

 

And even then, they've stated they'll replace it with another one that charges industry (which will just be past on to the consumer anyway). 

 

 

 

[King Heffy]

38 minutes ago, Combover said:

 

hahaha 

the NDP are such a freaking joke.

So get rid of the carbon tax they said repeatedly they couldn’t 

now involuntary treatment for a problem they’ve created by becoming the country’s biggest drug dealers with the miserable failure of legalizing meth.
 

best part is if they get elected they won’t do either.

 

4 years of tough love with Cons sounds better every time Eby talks. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're ok with letting a lunatic like Rustad completely destroy the province out of spite towards the NDP?

[Warhippy]

15 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

They can't. They're currently required to have one. Unless/until the federal cons get in and "axe the tax", which is what they're discussing here. Then they'll be able to change it.

 

And even then, they've stated they'll replace it with another one that charges industry (which will just be past on to the consumer anyway). 

 

 

 

Don't forget to add that they hold the carbon tax created by the BC Liberal/Conservatives.  And if they DO in fact decide to get rid of it none of that money will stay in province.

 

But hey, 4 years of tough love by the formerly bc liberal/conseravtives that created the actual messes that person is speaking of looks sooOOOOooooo good in comparison

[Bob Long]

Interesting info from the BC real estate association.

 

https://www.bcrea.bc.ca/advocacy/election/#issue-2-housing-tax-reform

 

Not sure there's much incentive for the NDP to lower taxes on housing, we are too reliant on it.

 

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

Don't forget to add that they hold the carbon tax created by the BC Liberal/Conservatives.  And if they DO in fact decide to get rid of it none of that money will stay in province.

 

But hey, 4 years of tough love by the formerly bc liberal/conseravtives that created the actual messes that person is speaking of looks sooOOOOooooo good in comparison

 

How long do the NDP get to say "because libs"? I would have thought 7 years in power makes things theirs but maybe you have a number.

[Warhippy]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

Interesting info from the BC real estate association.

 

https://www.bcrea.bc.ca/advocacy/election/#issue-2-housing-tax-reform

 

Not sure there's much incentive for the NDP to lower taxes on housing, we are too reliant on it.

 

When the BC Liberal/Conservatives were in power, housing starts were one of the top 3 drivers of our economy.  They still maintain that status which is genuine insanity.  There is no chance any party taking power in the province will at any point stop that gravy train.

 

 

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

How long do the NDP get to say "because libs"? I would have thought 7 years in power makes things theirs but maybe you have a number.

It takes a minimum of 18 months for major legislative changes to affect the economy and job markets outside of direct intervention from government sources.  Aside from the decriminalization project it has not exactly been a bad or rough ride for BC since the NDP took over.

 

I have to ask, what exactly is your bias or slant against them?  Have been curious for some time because you haven't exactly explained it outside of the same kind of rhetoric others state.  Between the BC NDP and the Rustad Conservative Liberals; you still seem happy to vote for Rustad just because they are not eh BC NDP.

 

Why?

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

When the BC Liberal/Conservatives were in power, housing starts were one of the top 3 drivers of our economy.  They still maintain that status which is genuine insanity.  There is no chance any party taking power in the province will at any point stop that gravy train.

 

 

It takes a minimum of 18 months for major legislative changes to affect the economy and job markets outside of direct intervention from government sources.  Aside from the decriminalization project it has not exactly been a bad or rough ride for BC since the NDP took over.

 

I have to ask, what exactly is your bias or slant against them?  Have been curious for some time because you haven't exactly explained it outside of the same kind of rhetoric others state.  Between the BC NDP and the Rustad Conservative Liberals; you still seem happy to vote for Rustad just because they are not eh BC NDP.

 

Why?

 

Mainly their anti-development and us vs them business stance. Ive seen it in 3 different provinces and throughout my career. It is what it is. I also think they believe that they have some moral high ground. 

 

When did I say I liked or was voting for Rustad btw? 

 

[Ricky Ravioli]

Coalition of Metro Vancouver officials call for immediate action by feds, province to address public safety

 

A coalition of Metro Vancouver officials is calling on the provincial and federal governments to do something about public safety and the ongoing mental health crisis.

 

Vancouver Mayor Ken Sim fronted the media Monday morning, flanked by his city’s fire and police chiefs, and counterparts from other Metro Vancouver municipalities.

 

The coalition issued a three-point plan, urging immediate action to be taken “on the public safety and mental health crisis gripping Vancouver and other communities across this great province of ours, and we’re united in calling for immediate action to address this crisis on three critical fronts,” Sim said.

 

Firstly, they want Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to provide funding to help care for those dealing with severe mental health and addiction.

“Secondly, we are requesting quick and decisive action, both by the Premier and the federal government to bring forward meaningful bail reform for repeat offenders,” Sim explained.

Finally, the coalition is calling, “once again,” on the Prime Minister and the federal government to “take decisive action when it comes to implementing actual policing at Metro Vancouver’s ports to combat organized crime by stopping the importation of illicit toxic drugs.”

 

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/09/16/metro-vancouver-officials-public-safety-call-to-action/

[Warhippy]

10 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Mainly their anti-development and us vs them business stance. Ive seen it in 3 different provinces and throughout my career. It is what it is. I also think they believe that they have some moral high ground. 

 

When did I say I liked or was voting for Rustad btw? 

 

Your career and other provinces are not here and now.  Anti development?  They have actually essentially allowed housing starts and major projects (barring the bridge/tunnel) to be green lit and have in fact increased them to kind of insane levels.

 

I don't care about moral high ground, ALL parties are arrogant as hell.

 

But to date the BC NDP have allowed for the pipeline, site c, numerous major infrastructure and energy projects as well as urban development at levels not seen before in this province since the 60s/70s

 

I never said you WERE voting for that individual, but that you seemed happy to be because they are not the NDP.  While I know your statements exist regarding the Greens etc.  We both know that there is and has always been in BC and federally a 2 party system in which a vote for one part is effectively a vote against another.

 

With the race being between Rustad and his bat shit crazy group of former Liberals and the ever sour Eby it comes down to the turd sandwich or the giant douche.

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Your career and other provinces are not here and now.

 

OK, I'll remember that next time you discuss your personal expereince 

 

Its the same spin as 30 years ago. Parties are what they are. 

 

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

 

  Anti development?  They have actually essentially allowed housing starts and major projects (barring the bridge/tunnel) to be green lit and have in fact increased them to kind of insane levels.

 

how closely does the NDP work with developers? whats their stance on new industires? We can debate this all day, but I doubt eithe of us would be moved much. 

 

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I don't care about moral high ground, ALL parties are arrogant as hell.

 

But to date the BC NDP have allowed for the pipeline, site c, numerous major infrastructure and energy projects as well as urban development at levels not seen before in this province since the 60s/70s

 

I never said you WERE voting for that individual, but that you seemed happy to be because they are not the NDP.  While I know your statements exist regarding the Greens etc.  We both know that there is and has always been in BC and federally a 2 party system in which a vote for one part is effectively a vote against another.

 

With the race being between Rustad and his bat shit crazy group of former Liberals and the ever sour Eby it comes down to the turd sandwich or the giant douche.

 

Dunno, can't help what you read into it, but I have no love for Rustad. 

 

[Warhippy]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

OK, I'll remember that next time you discuss your personal expereince 

 

Its the same spin as 30 years ago. Parties are what they are. 

 

 

how closely does the NDP work with developers? whats their stance on new industires? We can debate this all day, but I doubt eithe of us would be moved much. 

 

 

Dunno, can't help what you read into it, but I have no love for Rustad. 

 

Remember whatever you want.  Politically, provincial parties are very different from each other.  Eby vs Wab Kenew.  Different NDP.  Notley/Nenshi vs Eby.  Very different.  Eby vs Singh.  Closer but still different.  Over multiple decades I would also say that provincially and federally the parties positions have changed a touch as well.

 

The NDP should not be working with or for developers, any party should be working with and for the people.  It is almost inarguable that the BC NDP have completed very large portions of their platforms and have in fact not shut down major projects and have in fact made it much easier for developers to bypass municipal red tape.

 

Don't care if you love rustad or not, if a person is not voting for the NDP it is by extension a vote for the BC Conservative LIberals.  If a person is not voting for the BC Conservative Liberals it is by extension a vote for the BC NDP.  I personally don't care, I don't vote for parties; but we ARE in a two party system (still) in this province.

[Bob Long]

7 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Remember whatever you want.  Politically, provincial parties are very different from each other.  Eby vs Wab Kenew.  Different NDP.  Notley/Nenshi vs Eby.  Very different.  Eby vs Singh.  Closer but still different.  Over multiple decades I would also say that provincially and federally the parties positions have changed a touch as well.

 

The NDP should not be working with or for developers, any party should be working with and for the people.  It is almost inarguable that the BC NDP have completed very large portions of their platforms and have in fact not shut down major projects and have in fact made it much easier for developers to bypass municipal red tape.

 

"for the people"... which people?

 

7 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Don't care if you love rustad or not, if a person is not voting for the NDP it is by extension a vote for the BC Conservative LIberals.  If a person is not voting for the BC Conservative Liberals it is by extension a vote for the BC NDP.  I personally don't care, I don't vote for parties; but we ARE in a two party system (still) in this province.

 

nah its not an extension of anything. I don't have to be forced to pick a side here, I can vote who I want to see. If thats Green, thats what I'll do. 

 

I can do the same thing to Jag supporters. They are splitting the federal vote and will let PP take over, is what you're telling me. 

 

[Coconuts]

On 9/15/2024 at 11:56 AM, Optimist Prime said:

B.C. to expand involuntary care for those with addiction issues

Premier David Eby made a public safety pitch Sunday, announcing mental health units at correctional facilities

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-involuntary-care-addiction-1.7324079

 

Finally!

 

Not exactly keen on this but I understand the push, I could see it doing more harm than good in many cases. The article itself speaks to some of the why. I seriously question how many of these talking head politicians actually know much about addiction, given the amount it's spoken about. 

 

"However, advocates have said that involuntary care for those with drug addictions is often not helpful, with one study showing that people were at a higher risk of drug overdose after being discharged from compulsory treatment." Here's the associated article.

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0376871622002290

 

There's absolutely truth to it, one of the biggest risks for folks coming out of treatment is obviously relapse, but it's not necessarily just about the fact someone goes back to using drugs, it's partially about what dosage they go back to using. Relapsing is especially dangerous because it's not uncommon for folks to go right back to what they'd use in the past, but if someone hasn't used in a good while they aren't going to have the tolerance they once did. 

 

""Involuntary treatment or forced care [is] not effective and does not help people, and is an extremely traumatic experience, which actually drives people away from the health care system," said Tyson Singh Kelsall, an outreach worker in Vancouver's Downtown Eastside and a PhD candidate in Simon Fraser University's faculty of health sciences."

 

There's actually quite a bit of truth to this. Involuntary treatment is murky both legally and ethically. It's not uncommon for individuals to be traumatized by their  experiences within the system, and it can absolutely push people away from what's historically been a medicalized model of care. This definitely applies to individuals with mental health issues. 

 

"In an interview before the Sunday announcement, Kelsall said that the building of new facilities to house those detained under involuntary care was distracting from a health-care crisis in the province."

 

"He said that the province should be focused on interventions like affordable housing, regulating the drug supply and increasing welfare rates instead."

 

Bingo, you can't address addiction without addressing the intersecting pieces like poverty, trauma, housing, and so on. Wraparound services are needed. The thing about addiction is you can't force someone to be ready, they can throw people into facilities and the like but that still won't guarantee the results they want. It might get them off the street so to speak, but they'll likely still be paying for that in some capacity. 

 

Eby himself has supposedly spoken to this in the past, we'll see where it goes. 

 

"In previous comments, Eby said there's still a place for involuntary care in B.C., but "warehousing people" isn't enough without adequate support that "hopefully helps them get back on their own feet."

 

The only upside is I believe the NDP would be better at implementing this than the BC Cons, it's on the agenda for both parties it would seem.

 

https://vancouversun.com/news/bc-will-force-addicted-mentally-ill-people-into-involuntary-care

 

"There is no doubt we need to make changes,” he said, adding the Conservative platform makes “compassionate involuntary care a key piece in dealing with the medical emergency in B.C.”

 

"Rustad said his party had “consistently pushed for policies that prioritize the health and safety of individuals suffering from severe mental illness and addiction.”

 

I question how much of this decision is about efficacy and how much is about which way political winds are blowing.

 

"B.C. Greens leader Sonia Furstenau said Eby was following Rustad off a reactionary cliff."

 

"“I am deeply concerned about the overreliance on involuntary care. We are currently involuntarily treating more people than we ever have in our province — over 20,000 people annually — yet there’s little evidence it reduces rehospitalization or repeat offences,” Furstenau said."

 

"Furstenau said that Eby was starting to embrace right-wing politics."

 

"“Eby and Rustad are pushing reactionary sound bites, ignoring the root causes of homelessness and substance use,” Furstenau said."

 

"“They fail to ensure that we have a mental health care system that prevents crises. And they do very little for the youth who have aged out of care, who are on a direct path to this outcome, failed by one system only to be put in another."

 

The above quite is particularly poignant, there have been valid criticisms of the lack of supports for youth aging out of care for years. Thankfully there's been some movement on this, but there's still a lot of work to do.

 

The most poignant bit from the article below is "in 2020, B.C.’s children’s watchdog warned that services for these young people were “deeply flawed and inadequate,” and the coroner’s service concluded in 2018 that youth aging out of care died at five times the rate of those in the general population.".

 

https://vancouversun.com/news/feature-to-update-whats-happening-with-youth-aging-out-of-care#:~:text=In 2020%2C B.C.'s children's,those in the general population.

 

"“David Eby claims to follow evidence and data, yet he overlooks key reports like the Provincial Health Officer’s recommendations on alternatives to toxic drugs, the All-Party Health Committee’s findings, the B.C. Coroners Service Death Panel Review, and the Police Act Review. He cherry-picks evidence to fit his increasingly right-wing politics.”"

 

One thing I can't emphasize enough is the need for discharge planning, and actual resources to connect folks with. I've told this story here over the last year, but I'll tell it again. There was an individual connected with Service BC up this way, they'd gotten into treatment and then come back, but there weren't housing options in place. They tried to get emergency housing funding, which they may or may not have gotten, but within a span of a few months they'd relapsed and died. It's not enough to press people into treatment, or even detox, there need to be things in place to support people when they get out. One of the issues in this particular scenario is that the go to housing option was shelter housing, I'm sure folks can imagine why that wouldn't be a great environment for someone who's just gone through rehab. 

 

There needs to be short and long-term funding, there needs to be a housing contingent, there need to be ongoing supports. There needs to be actual infrastructure, maybe what the NDP are proposing could be part of it, but there needs to be a lot more. That's one of the biggest things regarding Alcoholics and Narcotics Anonymous, having that support system, having that sponsor, having a network to reach out to in the event of a relapse. Things like transitional housing, safe environments, those are key too. We can't just work to get folks clean and then shove them back out onto the streets. 

 

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

"for the people"... which people?

 

 

nah its not an extension of anything. I don't have to be forced to pick a side here, I can vote who I want to see. If thats Green, thats what I'll do. 

 

I can do the same thing to Jag supporters. They are splitting the federal vote and will let PP take over, is what you're telling me. 

 

Any party should be working for the people.  We are the people.  Not business, not developers, not donation happy corporations.  The people.  Taxpaying majority.  Us.  You know better mate.

 

Nobody is saying you are forced to pick a side, I am highlighting that we have a 2 party system.

 

But that is factual.  We have more options federally though.  The greens, NDP and Bloc and even the seatless PPC all provide a different option.  But yes, voting for the NDP is in fact going to split the vote.  it is a foregone conclusion though as right now federally PP is going to win his majority.

[Optimist Prime]

2 hours ago, Coconuts said:

 

Not exactly keen on this but I understand the push, I could see it doing more harm than good in many cases. The article itself speaks to some of the why. I seriously question how many of these talking head politicians actually know much about addiction, given the amount it's spoken about. 

 

"However, advocates have said that involuntary care for those with drug addictions is often not helpful, with one study showing that people were at a higher risk of drug overdose after being discharged from compulsory treatment." Here's the associated article.

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0376871622002290

 

There's absolutely truth to it, one of the biggest risks for folks coming out of treatment is obviously relapse, but it's not necessarily just about the fact someone goes back to using drugs, it's partially about what dosage they go back to using. Relapsing is especially dangerous because it's not uncommon for folks to go right back to what they'd use in the past, but if someone hasn't used in a good while they aren't going to have the tolerance they once did. 

 

""Involuntary treatment or forced care [is] not effective and does not help people, and is an extremely traumatic experience, which actually drives people away from the health care system," said Tyson Singh Kelsall, an outreach worker in Vancouver's Downtown Eastside and a PhD candidate in Simon Fraser University's faculty of health sciences."

 

There's actually quite a bit of truth to this. Involuntary treatment is murky both legally and ethically. It's not uncommon for individuals to be traumatized by their  experiences within the system, and it can absolutely push people away from what's historically been a medicalized model of care. This definitely applies to individuals with mental health issues. 

 

"In an interview before the Sunday announcement, Kelsall said that the building of new facilities to house those detained under involuntary care was distracting from a health-care crisis in the province."

 

"He said that the province should be focused on interventions like affordable housing, regulating the drug supply and increasing welfare rates instead."

 

Bingo, you can't address addiction without addressing the intersecting pieces like poverty, trauma, housing, and so on. Wraparound services are needed. The thing about addiction is you can't force someone to be ready, they can throw people into facilities and the like but that still won't guarantee the results they want. It might get them off the street so to speak, but they'll likely still be paying for that in some capacity. 

 

Eby himself has supposedly spoken to this in the past, we'll see where it goes. 

 

"In previous comments, Eby said there's still a place for involuntary care in B.C., but "warehousing people" isn't enough without adequate support that "hopefully helps them get back on their own feet."

 

The only upside is I believe the NDP would be better at implementing this than the BC Cons, it's on the agenda for both parties it would seem.

 

https://vancouversun.com/news/bc-will-force-addicted-mentally-ill-people-into-involuntary-care

 

"There is no doubt we need to make changes,” he said, adding the Conservative platform makes “compassionate involuntary care a key piece in dealing with the medical emergency in B.C.”

 

"Rustad said his party had “consistently pushed for policies that prioritize the health and safety of individuals suffering from severe mental illness and addiction.”

 

I question how much of this decision is about efficacy and how much is about which way political winds are blowing.

 

"B.C. Greens leader Sonia Furstenau said Eby was following Rustad off a reactionary cliff."

 

"“I am deeply concerned about the overreliance on involuntary care. We are currently involuntarily treating more people than we ever have in our province — over 20,000 people annually — yet there’s little evidence it reduces rehospitalization or repeat offences,” Furstenau said."

 

"Furstenau said that Eby was starting to embrace right-wing politics."

 

"“Eby and Rustad are pushing reactionary sound bites, ignoring the root causes of homelessness and substance use,” Furstenau said."

 

"“They fail to ensure that we have a mental health care system that prevents crises. And they do very little for the youth who have aged out of care, who are on a direct path to this outcome, failed by one system only to be put in another."

 

The above quite is particularly poignant, there have been valid criticisms of the lack of supports for youth aging out of care for years. Thankfully there's been some movement on this, but there's still a lot of work to do.

 

The most poignant bit from the article below is "in 2020, B.C.’s children’s watchdog warned that services for these young people were “deeply flawed and inadequate,” and the coroner’s service concluded in 2018 that youth aging out of care died at five times the rate of those in the general population.".

 

https://vancouversun.com/news/feature-to-update-whats-happening-with-youth-aging-out-of-care#:~:text=In 2020%2C B.C.'s children's,those in the general population.

 

"“David Eby claims to follow evidence and data, yet he overlooks key reports like the Provincial Health Officer’s recommendations on alternatives to toxic drugs, the All-Party Health Committee’s findings, the B.C. Coroners Service Death Panel Review, and the Police Act Review. He cherry-picks evidence to fit his increasingly right-wing politics.”"

 

One thing I can't emphasize enough is the need for discharge planning, and actual resources to connect folks with. I've told this story here over the last year, but I'll tell it again. There was an individual connected with Service BC up this way, they'd gotten into treatment and then come back, but there weren't housing options in place. They tried to get emergency housing funding, which they may or may not have gotten, but within a span of a few months they'd relapsed and died. It's not enough to press people into treatment, or even detox, there need to be things in place to support people when they get out. One of the issues in this particular scenario is that the go to housing option was shelter housing, I'm sure folks can imagine why that wouldn't be a great environment for someone who's just gone through rehab. 

 

There needs to be short and long-term funding, there needs to be a housing contingent, there need to be ongoing supports. There needs to be actual infrastructure, maybe what the NDP are proposing could be part of it, but there needs to be a lot more. That's one of the biggest things regarding Alcoholics and Narcotics Anonymous, having that support system, having that sponsor, having a network to reach out to in the event of a relapse. Things like transitional housing, safe environments, those are key too. We can't just work to get folks clean and then shove them back out onto the streets. 

 

Good post, generally no disagreement from me on the points.

 

Two notes though: Sonya Fursteneau is also politicking with the issue, her two opponents ideas are bad and hers are good, right? so vote GREEN. 

Secondly; the entire post has zero mention of the communities, businesses and people who ARE NOT addicts who are caught up in the void zones that have become the upside down for anyone not enjoying their drug of choice on a sidewalk in some areas. For my valley, the one that Sonya has done zero for in her time in office 'representing' us and has actually completely disappeared from for the last two years at least... my valley (she is leaving to run against someone who got 55% of the vote last time .. ergo she is ensuring she loses and can slip out to collect her pension that she qualifies for) the Cowichan Valley has had a hole in Duncan that is a terrible blight on our entire community: a so called safe injection site, whose windows look across the road to a middle school and an elementary school, 2 blocks from a high school and community center where a used items business that a lot of folks saved money at and donated to, keeping things out of landfill and helping struggling families afford things they need, was burnt to the ground, another restaurant was forced to shutter its doors and two other businesses went belly up in the void zone of Street Gumbies bent at the waist opiated to oblivion. one of the addicts was seen being beaten horrifically by her 'partner' and none of the other addicts or homeless did anything to help her, she is still missing by the way, and while I am no detective, she disappeared the same night that used clothing and items store was burnt to the ground, (i would sift the ashes for human remains if i was in charge). The school kids that step over passed out addicts, the vehicles that need to change lanes to avoid grocery carts and personal items in the slow lane, the folks who have to try not to get stuck with needles for 3 city blocks around the site (and around the 3 dozen tents the cops play whack-a-mole with in that area) are also suffering from bad health due 100% to those addicts. 
Forced rehabilitation for a year ( i hope it is that long ) will help these community blights return to community assets. 
I get the addicts may not rehab at all and will simply count down the days to their next overdose, but some will take advantage of the year of being clean and get help and move on out. Allowing them to sit in their filth and spread it around to others only exacerbates the problem. 
Incarceration without rehab is a non starter, it has to be rehab, forced, and hopefully for a meaningful amount of time. It will be expensive, but it will have more results than nalaxoning the same 40 year old 18 times in two years. 

 

sorry for the long winded diatribe with poor spelling, but i wanted to get it down on paper quickly. 
The experiment has to be over now that the data is in: at least in my hometown, allowing free range addicts was incredibly destructive and saved none of them from their private hell, just spread the flames and suffering around to others. 

[Sapper]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-united-caucus-employees-severance-1.7324702

 

Just a reminder how little the BC Liberals/Bacup/Conservative party thinks about workers

 

The three are the same but just like how one sect took over the socred flag and then moved liberal .... This is the extremist arm from the socred/then liberal/ then Bacup and now conservative party and this is what they really feel about workers 

If they didn't give a shit about their own staffers what makes anyone think they will give a rats ass about your job ?

Edited Monday at 10:55 PM by Sapper

[Coconuts]

50 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Good post, generally no disagreement from me on the points.

 

Two notes though: Sonya Fursteneau is also politicking with the issue, her two opponents ideas are bad and hers are good, right? so vote GREEN. 

Secondly; the entire post has zero mention of the communities, businesses and people who ARE NOT addicts who are caught up in the void zones that have become the upside down for anyone not enjoying their drug of choice on a sidewalk in some areas. For my valley, the one that Sonya has done zero for in her time in office 'representing' us and has actually completely disappeared from for the last two years at least... my valley (she is leaving to run against someone who got 55% of the vote last time .. ergo she is ensuring she loses and can slip out to collect her pension that she qualifies for) the Cowichan Valley has had a hole in Duncan that is a terrible blight on our entire community: a so called safe injection site, whose windows look across the road to a middle school and an elementary school, 2 blocks from a high school and community center where a used items business that a lot of folks saved money at and donated to, keeping things out of landfill and helping struggling families afford things they need, was burnt to the ground, another restaurant was forced to shutter its doors and two other businesses went belly up in the void zone of Street Gumbies bent at the waist opiated to oblivion. one of the addicts was seen being beaten horrifically by her 'partner' and none of the other addicts or homeless did anything to help her, she is still missing by the way, and while I am no detective, she disappeared the same night that used clothing and items store was burnt to the ground, (i would sift the ashes for human remains if i was in charge). The school kids that step over passed out addicts, the vehicles that need to change lanes to avoid grocery carts and personal items in the slow lane, the folks who have to try not to get stuck with needles for 3 city blocks around the site (and around the 3 dozen tents the cops play whack-a-mole with in that area) are also suffering from bad health due 100% to those addicts. 
Forced rehabilitation for a year ( i hope it is that long ) will help these community blights return to community assets. 
I get the addicts may not rehab at all and will simply count down the days to their next overdose, but some will take advantage of the year of being clean and get help and move on out. Allowing them to sit in their filth and spread it around to others only exacerbates the problem. 
Incarceration without rehab is a non starter, it has to be rehab, forced, and hopefully for a meaningful amount of time. It will be expensive, but it will have more results than nalaxoning the same 40 year old 18 times in two years. 

 

sorry for the long winded diatribe with poor spelling, but i wanted to get it down on paper quickly. 
The experiment has to be over now that the data is in: at least in my hometown, allowing free range addicts was incredibly destructive and saved none of them from their private hell, just spread the flames and suffering around to others. 

 

It's a tough gig, especially in the valley. I've got a buddy whose job involves picking up an ambulance from x community on the island, driving to x and cleaning it, and getting it to x community. Not always the same community, but yeah. He's never had anything good to say about driving through Duncan for reasons akin to what you've said, describing some of what you've said. 

 

Nanaimo's got similar issues, moreso the south end and towards downtown. I don't know if it's currently killing businesses, but it certainly affects them. 

 

Safe injection sites are a tough one, because I do believe they have their place in communities as a part of a harm reduction approach, but placement matters. Thing is, nobody wants that sort of thing in their neighborhood, NIMBYism will always rear it's head. Nanaimo ran into that with relocating the denizens of Nanaimo's tent city to supportive housing, nobody wanted that in their neighborhood either, which is a tough one because supportive housing is a big part of actually folks away from living on the street. Should a safe injection site be located near a school? Probably not, but I do think there's a place for them in communities through BC. 

 

Duncan also gets it for the same reason the rest of the island does, Vancouver Island has the mildest climate in Canada and is frankly a great place to be homeless if you're going to be homeless. If someone's gonna live homeless they're probably better doing it somewhere where they aren't going to be sleeping in -20 to -40. Island communities, and coastal mainland communities will probably always have to deal with these things a bit more for climate reasons. 

 

Hard to say to what degree this will get folks off the streets though, involuntarily pressing someone into care isn't a simple thing to do. But yeah, at this point I think a lot of BC residents will take just about anything that has the semblance of being a solution. 

 

Incarceration and rehab is a tricky one, I wouldn't call it a non-starter, but that's because I view addiction more as needing to be approached as a social health issue than a criminal issue. The thing about rehabilitation is it always requires funding, infrastructure, and so on, I've no doubt that there are probably several prisons out there with rehabilitation components (@bishopshodan), but I question whether they're equipped to act in the place of rehab facilities. 

 

Rehab and detox are tough things, because even government funded rehabilitation typically has waitlists. Obviously waits will vary regarding different programs and the like, but they do exist. Further compounding this are limited numbers of spots, beds, facilities, and so on, not to mention financial burder. https://globalnews.ca/news/8892038/long-waitlists-bc-toxic-drug-crisis-extreme/

 

"According to B.C’s Ministry of Mental Health and Addictions, there are 3,203 adult and youth funded community substance use beds across the province.". Article is from 2022 but I question how much that'll have expanded since. 

 

If anything, whichever provincial government takes the reigns going forward may need to simply start pouring more money into it's current rehabilitation infrastructure in order to expand it. Private options exist of course, but they can be obscenely expensive. 

 

For context, I did my second year practicum at Edgewood during the spring of 2021 and from what I recall it was roughly $500 a night for the 45-50 day stay, I think it went up to about $700-750 for their extended programming, but I could be off. This article from last year noted that "Edgewood Health Network says its 50-day program at the Nanaimo facility costs $38,750, for example, with some flexibility for the length of stay “based on a client’s needs or various contracts we have.”. It also noted that "it’s cheaper to attend Edgewood’s Vancouver-based outpatient program: $8,137.50.". 

https://cheknews.ca/former-clients-raise-concerns-about-prominent-drug-treatment-provider-in-nanaimo-1174089/#:~:text=Edgewood Health Network says its,or various contracts we have.”

 

Now, I was in a rather unique position as a practicum student and I got to spend quite a bit of time just hanging out and talking with residents (was there for 210 hours), it wasn't uncommon to hear that this was someone's second or third time through. Thing is, most people don't have the financial resources, the insurance, or the jobs willing to pay for rehab (jobs will, I met a lot of folks working high earning jobs and several folks who were much more extensively educated than I was at the time). Lot of the better quality rehabilitation options out there simply aren't available for people, and limited options compounds people's ability to get help, or to get other folks help, during BC's drug crisis. Both for the average person and potentially for those struggling with addiction on the street. 

 

Tackling addiction and mental health is a tough thing for any government, provincial or federal, to tackle. In all fairness to the NDP who want to implement what was in the article, addressing such societal matters takes time and it doesn't all happen at once. But whoever takes the next provincial election, be that the NDP or the Cons, they've got some tough roads ahead of them in regards to addressing homelessness, mental health, and addiction. 

Edited Monday at 11:41 PM by Coconuts

[Optimist Prime]

18 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

It's a tough gig, especially in the valley. I've got a buddy whose job involves picking up an ambulance from x community on the island, driving to x and cleaning it, and getting it to x community. Not always the same community, but yeah. He's never had anything good to say about driving through Duncan for reasons akin to what you've said, describing some of what you've said. 

 

Nanaimo's got similar issues, moreso the south end and towards downtown. I don't know if it's currently killing businesses, but it certainly affects them. 

 

Safe injection sites are a tough one, because I do believe they have their place in communities as a part of a harm reduction approach, but placement matters. Thing is, nobody wants that sort of thing in their neighborhood, NIMBYism will always rear it's head. Nanaimo ran into that with relocating the denizens of Nanaimo's tent city to supportive housing, nobody wanted that in their neighborhood either, which is a tough one because supportive housing is a big part of actually folks away from living on the street. Should a safe injection site be located near a school? Probably not, but I do think there's a place for them in communities through BC. 

 

Duncan also gets it for the same reason the rest of the island does, Vancouver Island has the mildest climate in Canada and is frankly a great place to be homeless if you're going to be homeless. If someone's gonna live homeless they're probably better doing it somewhere where they aren't going to be sleeping in -20 to -40. Island communities, and coastal mainland communities will probably always have to deal with these things a bit more for climate reasons. 

 

Hard to say to what degree this will get folks off the streets though, involuntarily pressing someone into care isn't a simple thing to do. But yeah, at this point I think a lot of BC residents will take just about anything that has the semblance of being a solution. 

 

Incarceration and rehab is a tricky one, I wouldn't call it a non-starter, but that's because I view addiction more as needing to be approached as a social health issue than a criminal issue. The thing about rehabilitation is it always requires funding, infrastructure, and so on, I've no doubt that there are probably several prisons out there with rehabilitation components (@bishopshodan), but I question whether they're equipped to act in the place of rehab facilities. 

 

Rehab and detox are tough things, because even government funded rehabilitation typically has waitlists. Obviously waits will vary regarding different programs and the like, but they do exist. Further compounding this are limited numbers of spots, beds, facilities, and so on, not to mention financial burder. https://globalnews.ca/news/8892038/long-waitlists-bc-toxic-drug-crisis-extreme/

 

"According to B.C’s Ministry of Mental Health and Addictions, there are 3,203 adult and youth funded community substance use beds across the province.". Article is from 2022 but I question how much that'll have expanded since. 

 

If anything, whichever provincial government takes the reigns going forward may need to simply start pouring more money into it's current rehabilitation infrastructure in order to expand it. Private options exist of course, but they can be obscenely expensive. 

 

For context, I did my second year practicum at Edgewood during the spring of 2021 and from what I recall it was roughly $500 a night for the 45-50 day stay, I think it went up to about $700-750 for their extended programming, but I could be off. This article from last year noted that "Edgewood Health Network says its 50-day program at the Nanaimo facility costs $38,750, for example, with some flexibility for the length of stay “based on a client’s needs or various contracts we have.”. It also noted that "it’s cheaper to attend Edgewood’s Vancouver-based outpatient program: $8,137.50.". 

https://cheknews.ca/former-clients-raise-concerns-about-prominent-drug-treatment-provider-in-nanaimo-1174089/#:~:text=Edgewood Health Network says its,or various contracts we have.”

 

Now, I was in a rather unique position as a practicum student and I got to spend quite a bit of time just hanging out and talking with residents (was there for 210 hours), it wasn't uncommon to hear that this was someone's second or third time through. Thing is, most people don't have the financial resources, the insurance, or the jobs willing to pay for rehab (jobs will, I met a lot of folks working high earning jobs and several folks who were much more extensively educated than I was at the time). Lot of the better quality rehabilitation options out there simply aren't available for people, and limited options compounds people's ability to get help, or to get other folks help, during BC's drug crisis. Both for the average person and potentially for those struggling with addiction on the street. 

 

Tackling addiction and mental health is a tough thing for any government, provincial or federal, to tackle. In all fairness to the NDP who want to implement what was in the article, addressing such societal matters takes time and it doesn't all happen at once. But whoever takes the next provincial election, be that the NDP or the Cons, they've got some tough roads ahead of them in regards to addressing homelessness, mental health, and addiction. 

Again I have to agree with almost all of this post. I just don't think free range homeless addicts is any kind of solution at all. Zip. It simply spreads the infection, if you will, to others. I am not saying I am right, when it comes to feels I am 'emotionally dysregulated' as I suffer from operational stress injuries myself. Many other vets are themselves homeless and addicts too. It is a rough situation, but one that we don't need to foster out in public on the streets and doorways of restaurants and in parking lots across the street from grade schools and middle schools.  I know I also suffer from a skewed perspective from what I have witnessed globally first hand. We pretend life is precious here in our generally safe communities, present topic notwithstanding, but on a global level life is cheaper than anyone would guess, sad to say. I don't expect the hard core opioid addicts who have been living rough for a dozen years to ever fully become integrated, productive souls again, I think that ship has sailed. What I do expect is that they are not available to infect others in our streets. I readily admit that I am jaded in that regard. I would not choose to use a kit to save someone overdosing. I don't believe in it, but not from being a callous ass hat, I just believe that whatever demons that person is escaping from, maybe bringing them back to face them again is the bad option. It is for me like waterboarding someone at GITMO for 12 years. Drown them, revive them, drown them, revive them, drown them, revive them. That is torture. I feel like reviving the same person 12 times is akin to torture, just let their poor soul go, they are already gone, all you have to do is not revive them to be waterboarded again. 
I know my opinion on that is in the extreme minority, but wanted to share it for perspective. 

[Bob Long]

3 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Any party should be working for the people.  We are the people.  Not business, not developers, not donation happy corporations.  The people.  Taxpaying majority.  Us.  You know better mate.

 

Do I? here's where maybe you and i differ. I see so much promise in manufacturing in Canada, including BC. Places like Germany and Japan don't actually have the anti-corporation thing we have going here. Different histories of course but its an important difference. We get in our own way here so much, and a big part of that imo is our needles stance where is us vs them. We have so much potential thats being pissed away, and i see a lot of NDP philospohy in that. We don't need to debate it, its my personal take based on my experience, which we won't change here today.

 

3 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Nobody is saying you are forced to pick a side, I am highlighting that we have a 2 party system.

 

I'm not pro NDP in BC, so I also think I see some warts others maybe don't see the same way here. I wasn't born in BC so that does give me some perspective too, imo anyway.

 

Take reconcilation e.g. No brainer that the NDP is better, right? well... I offer you the failed Olympics support. What better way to showcase support for BC First Nations to the planet? oh well, at least they backed FIFA.

 

There's many other issues that I'd give them a meh rating on like healthcare (thank god tho for Bonnie Henry), housing, industrial support or infrastructure. Yes we are doing some projects, but could be doing far more.

 

We're also running a pretty big deficit for a province thats collecting 2 billion per year from the uncertain real estate market. What happens if that collapses?

 

So i don't see them quite as great as others do. 

 

OTOH Rustad is an idiot, so whats a guy to do?

 

3 hours ago, Warhippy said:

But that is factual.  We have more options federally though.  The greens, NDP and Bloc and even the seatless PPC all provide a different option.  But yes, voting for the NDP is in fact going to split the vote.  it is a foregone conclusion though as right now federally PP is going to win his majority.

 

I still think there's an outside shot at the Libs-Bloc forming the next government. Very outside shot.

 

I think we're going to see a massive budget bill this fall based on Carney's input that puts a lot of money into Quebec manufacturing and other goodies. 

Edited Tuesday at 12:22 AM by Bob Long

[aGENT]

7 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Do I? here's where maybe you and i differ. I see so much promise in manufacturing in Canada, including BC. Places like Germany and Japan don't actually have the anti-corporation thing we have going here. Different histories of course but its an important difference. We get in our own way here so much, and a big part of that imo is our needles stance where is us vs them. We have so much potential thats being pissed away, and i see a lot of NDP philospohy in that. We don't need to debate it, its my personal take based on my experience, which we won't change here today.

 

As I noted the other day, the US is the problem. Any time we have any successful startup, it gets swallowed by US $$$, dismantled, relocated, offshored etc to very little long term benefit to Canada/Canadians. We're like their unappreciated farm team for business. Otherwise we're just a resource supplier for them and that's all they really care to let us be. That's a FAR bigger problem the any "anti corporation" issues of people or a political party.

 

It's not that people (or the NDP) are "anti-business" (though again, given the daily profiteering, gouging, subsidizing etc we have right to be touch cautious and prickly). It's that realistically, the way our relationship is setup with the US, we don't have much choice there. You need to solve that problem and stop blaming Canadians or the NDP.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

There's many other issues that I'd give them a meh rating on like healthcare (thank god tho for Bonnie Henry), housing, industrial support or infrastructure. Yes we are doing some projects, but could be doing far more.

 

We're also running a pretty big deficit for a province thats collecting 2 billion per year from the uncertain real estate market. What happens if that collapses?

puts a lot of money into Quebec manufacturing and other goodies. 

 

We're doing projects, I agree. And thank goodness or we'd be falling even further behind on vital infrastructure like schools and hospitals with the immigration influx we've been, and will continue to see. And we're running a deficit to do so...which you of course complain about in your next point  So which is it, should we be doing even more, or should we be spending even less? And before you quote ICBC rebates, I bet they amount to a lot less than the CEO salaries on our grocery bills 

 

18 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

I'm not pro NDP in BC, so I also think I see some warts others maybe don't see the same way here. I wasn't born in BC so that does give me some perspective too, imo anyway. 

 

You're spelling hypocrisy awful funny Bob 

[The Arrogant Worms]

Another incumbent BC United MLA to run as Independent as Kirkpatrick re-enters race

WEST VANCOUVER, B.C. — An incumbent BC United legislative member has reversed her decision not to seek re-election and has announced she'll run as an Independent in the riding of West Vancouver-Capilano in the upcoming British Columbia election.

 

https://www.timescolonist.com/bc-news/another-incumbent-bc-united-mla-to-run-as-independent-as-kirkpatrick-re-enters-race-9528542

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

 

As I noted the other day, the US is the problem. Any time we have any successful startup, it gets swallowed by US $$$, dismantled, relocated, offshored etc to very little long term benefit to Canada/Canadians. We're like their unappreciated farm team for business. Otherwise we're just a resource supplier for them and that's all they really care to let us be. That's a FAR bigger problem the any "anti corporation" issues of people or a political party.

 

It's not that people (or the NDP) are "anti-business" (though again, given the daily profiteering, gouging, subsidizing etc we have right to be touch cautious and prickly). It's that realistically, the way our relationship is setup with the US, we don't have much choice there. You need to solve that problem and stop blaming Canadians or the NDP.

 

 

 

We're doing projects, I agree. And thank goodness or we'd be falling even further behind on vital infrastructure like schools and hospitals with the immigration influx we've been, and will continue to see. And we're running a deficit to do so...which you of course complain about in your next point  So which is it, should we be doing even more, or should we be spending even less? And before you quote ICBC rebates, I bet they amount to a lot less than the CEO salaries on our grocery bills 

 

 

You're spelling hypocrisy awful funny Bob 

 

[The Arrogant Worms]

B.C. Ferries aims to add seven new major vessels to its fleet

A request for proposals to design and build the diesel-electric hybrid ferries was issued on Monday.

 

https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/bc-ferries-aims-to-add-seven-new-major-vessels-to-its-fleet-9528155