B.C. Politics Thread

[Boudrias]

24 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

no idea how something like this gets sorted out. 

 

One of my concerns is the issue of hereditary rights claims. If we go by that, a literal handful of people control BCs land, even over the rights of elected bands. Again, UNDRIP is silent on how that is dealt with, but it provides a mechanism for endless argument. 

 

I understand the impulse to want to support UNDRIP in spirit. What really happens on the ground is another thing altogether and I think it actually has the potential to hurt more than help. 

Our local band has elections and the current chief has done a good job of buying up businesses and having them ran in a professional way. The band owns about 1/4 of the arable land and they farm some and rent the rest. I have a buddy who is native but not from the local band. He is an accountant and went to work for the local band. The problem he ran into was band members jockeying for jobs and trying to do jobs they weren't capable of doing. He eventually quit. Then he got called from another band to come work for them. He did for about 2 years and found out the corruption was very bad. Stealing from the band by band members was steady. The leadership counted on member apathy. My point in this is the need for band members to have their own equity independent of the band. Having title to a property makes all the difference into people buying in. The paternalism which so many bands are treated with undermines the individual rights and growth of so many. 

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Our local band has elections and the current chief has done a good job of buying up businesses and having them ran in a professional way. The band owns about 1/4 of the arable land and they farm some and rent the rest. I have a buddy who is native but not from the local band. He is an accountant and went to work for the local band. The problem he ran into was band members jockeying for jobs and trying to do jobs they weren't capable of doing. He eventually quit. Then he got called from another band to come work for them. He did for about 2 years and found out the corruption was very bad. Stealing from the band by band members was steady. The leadership counted on member apathy. My point in this is the need for band members to have their own equity independent of the band. Having title to a property makes all the difference into people buying in. The paternalism which so many bands are treated with undermines the individual rights and growth of so many. 

 

I remember similar stories from SK. 

 

Well, if nothing else, we're at least talking about this stuff. We'll see where it all ends up in 10 days. 

[RupertKBD]

So, honest question boys and girls:

 

If Rustad is elected and decides to scrap BC's participation in UNDRIP, will you see this as a net positive for the province?

Edited October 9 by RupertKBD

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

Quote

BC Coroners Service says no record of fatal overdose where Rustad says he saw man die

 

B.C. Conservative Leader John Rustad responds to questions from reporters after the televised leaders' debate, in Vancouver, on Tuesday, October 8, 2024. The BC Coroners Service says it has no record of any recent drug toxicity death at a Vancouver intersection where B.C. Conservative Leader John Rustad said he saw a man die of an overdose on his way to a televised election debate. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Darryl Dyck

   

By Darryl Greer, The Canadian Press

Posted October 9, 2024 3:23 pm.

Last Updated October 9, 2024 3:37 pm.

 

The BC Coroners Service says it has no record of any recent drug toxicity death at a Vancouver intersection where B.C. Conservative Leader John Rustad said he saw a man die on his way to a televised election debate.

 

Rustad told Tuesday’s party leaders’ debate that he saw someone die “from an overdose” on the corner of Robson and Hornby streets in Vancouver, later telling a news conference he watched first responders “pumping his chest” as an ambulance arrived.

 

The BC Coroners Service says it would be notified of a deadly overdose and it has no record of such an event in the last two and a half weeks at the location given by Rustad.

 

The service says if first responders were on scene and a person died “a coroner would be called,” and it would also be notified if a person received resuscitation but later died in hospital.

 

BC Emergency Health Services also says it has “no records of any patient events” on Tuesday at the corner of Robson and Hornby streets, “or on the blocks immediately adjacent to that intersection.”

 

Neither Rustad nor the B.C. Conservative Party responded to a request for comment about what Rustad says he saw.

 

He had used the anecdote during his debate with NDP Leader David Eby and Green Party Leader Sonia Furstenau as an illustration of what he called “the British Columbia that David Eby has created.”

 

“I was on my way over here, and on the corner of Robson and Hornby, there was an individual who died, and there was emergency people rushing (around). This person died from an overdose,” he said.

 

He was asked to elaborate at the post-debate press conference.

 

“(What) I saw from the window as I was looking down at this individual on the ground with the emergency people pumping his chest trying to bring him back to life and an ambulance coming up … I mean, it just, it’s horrendous to think that that is becoming normal place on our streets here in Vancouver and across this province.”

 

BC Coroners Service media relations manager Amber Schinkel said in an emailed response to questions that she had “reviewed drug toxicity deaths in Vancouver since September 25, 2024, and there is nothing near this address.”

 

Asked if there were circumstances in which the service would not record a death, she said if it involved drug toxicity the coroner would be notified.

 

“If first responders had attempted to resuscitate a person at a scene and the person died, a coroner would be called. If first responders transported the person to hospital, where they later died, the Coroners Service would still be notified,” she said.

 

She said an exception was if a person was in their home in the area and under a doctor’s care when they died, “a death through MAID for example,” then the service would not be notified.

 

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/10/09/no-record-of-fatal-overdose-where-rustad-says-he-saw-man-die/

 

Mr. Rustad can't possibly be lying... [cantonese gasp] or could he?  

[Sapper]

1 minute ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/10/09/no-record-of-fatal-overdose-where-rustad-says-he-saw-man-die/

 

Mr. Rustad can't possibly be lying... [cantonese gasp] or could he?  

In the conservative world truth , honesty and manners are a restriction on their  freedoms to win at all costs 

 

It's clear the guy is willing. To say and do anything for power ........ It's his fredumb after all

[RupertKBD]

10 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/10/09/no-record-of-fatal-overdose-where-rustad-says-he-saw-man-die/

 

Mr. Rustad can't possibly be lying... [cantonese gasp] or could he?  

 

What makes me curious is that if Rustad truly witnessed what he says he did, how did he know that the person had suffered an overdose? Seems like it just as easily could have been a heart attack, n'est pas?

[Bob Long]

38 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

So, honest question boys and girls:

 

If Rustad is elected and decides to scrap BC's participation in UNDRIP, will you see this as a net positive for the province?

 

it depends. I don't know if its this simple of a question: https://globalnews.ca/news/10785147/bc-conservatives-undrip-repeal-indigenous-rights-law-john-rustad/

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

I remember similar stories from SK. 

 

Well, if nothing else, we're at least talking about this stuff. We'll see where it all ends up in 10 days. 

a friend of mine is a UN water rights lawyer. She was raised on the Hobima reserve in the Prairies, some of her stories are absolutely horrendous. Grandsons kicking in their grammas front doors on 'check day' to beat them and rob them of the little they got to feed themselves with, and that sort of thing. Like the anecdote about Boudrias buddy the accountant: these are all symptoms of generational trauma, and it took generations of misuse/abuse for it to get to this day today, it will take generations to dig out from it. The upside is that band hired an outside accountant to get the knowledge they needed to see the 'corruption' as stated.. and it is a step towards sorting it out. It was really only in the 50's and 60's that cities and regional districts in BC flushed out corruption and some are still fighting that fight. I think we can give folks on reserve a bit of grace all things considered in the process (not unlike Ukraine in fact) of 'getting legit'. 

 

I may be telling tales out of school here, but I recall as a teenager the Hereditary chief in Duncan BC literally stole millions from teh band to do with a lease of a big mall property or something. I was young so i dont know all the deets, but a friend from school who ended up with the RCMP was telling me about it a few years back. Seems to me the guys wife went 'missing' too on a vacation supposedly taken with the proceeds of ripping off the band... I just don't know the details though. 

[Bob Long]

8 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

a friend of mine is a UN water rights lawyer. She was raised on the Hobima reserve in the Prairies, some of her stories are absolutely horrendous. Grandsons kicking in their grammas front doors on 'check day' to beat them and rob them of the little they got to feed themselves with, and that sort of thing. Like the anecdote about Boudrias buddy the accountant: these are all symptoms of generational trauma, and it took generations of misuse/abuse for it to get to this day today, it will generations to dig out from it. The upside is that band hired an outside accountant to get the knowledge they needed to see the 'corruption' as stated.. and it is a step towards sorting it out. It was really only in the 50's and 60's that cities and regional districts in BC flushed out corruption and some are still fighting that fight. I think we can give folks on reserve a bit of grace all things considered in the process (not unlike Ukraine in fact) of 'getting legit'. 

 

I may be telling tales out of school here, but I recall as a teenager the Hereditary chief in Duncan BC literally stole millions from teh band to do with a lease of a big mall property or something. I was young so i dont know all the deets, but a friend from school who ended up with the RCMP was telling me about it a few years back. Seems to me the guys wife went 'missing' too on a vacation supposedly taken with the proceeds of ripping off the band... I just don't know the details though. 

 

This is one of the areas that really concerns me. Are we rushing into undrip and will we be ending up supporting the wrong people? 

 

What will undrip mean for hereditary power?

 

I don't think we've had this discussion in BC yet.

 

[Sapper]

What a joke ... He had doubled down on it. This is like the Iraq officer live on tv claiming the USA had been stopped and destroyed ... While the US tanks drove up behind him 

His version has changed 

 

During the campaign, BC Conservative Leader John Rustad has repeatedly said people are "dying on the streets" in the province – and on Tuesday he claimed to have witnessed that very thing in downtown Vancouver while he was on his way to the leaders' debate.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/did-john-rustad-witness-an-overdose-death-on-his-way-to-the-b-c-leaders-debate-1.7068490

[Optimist Prime]

7 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

This is one of the areas that really concerns me. Are we rushing into undrip and will we be ending up supporting the wrong people? 

 

What will undrip mean for hereditary power?

 

I don't think we've had this discussion in BC yet.

 

I am not an expert, but you have said two things now: undrip is redundant, and undrip may give powers to the wrong people... so it is kind of easy to see one of those two things is not correct. I don't have the time to give it a thorough looky loo, but from the accounts of people I trust that are working on the file in real time, it seems better for First Nations people to recognize UNDRIP than to not do so. But again I just don't know personally first hand. I would need to find an afternoon of quiet and really dig into it. 

It is already a law in BC that passed with unanimous consent, so I lean towards that as a bit of a guide too. the UN likes it, all the elected members in the BC LEgislature liked it at a point in time: and now during an election where the right feels so emoldened in BC that eh Conservative Party of BC might have a chance at power for the first time in history .. now it is an issue? I dunno: I think Rustad says he will repeal it so that a majority of white old men will vote for Rustad. In this a am a bit of a cynic, i know. 

 

i just don't trust John Rustad, for obvious reasons. 

[Optimist Prime]

4 minutes ago, Sapper said:

What a joke ... He had doubled down on it. This is like the Iraq officer live on tv claiming the USA had been stopped and destroyed ... While the US tanks drove up behind him 

His version has changed 

 

During the campaign, BC Conservative Leader John Rustad has repeatedly said people are "dying on the streets" in the province – and on Tuesday he claimed to have witnessed that very thing in downtown Vancouver while he was on his way to the leaders' debate.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/did-john-rustad-witness-an-overdose-death-on-his-way-to-the-b-c-leaders-debate-1.7068490

and if he did: why didn't he try to administer aid while calling for help? First question...

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

9 minutes ago, Sapper said:

What a joke ... He had doubled down on it. This is like the Iraq officer live on tv claiming the USA had been stopped and destroyed ... While the US tanks drove up behind him 

His version has changed 

 

During the campaign, BC Conservative Leader John Rustad has repeatedly said people are "dying on the streets" in the province – and on Tuesday he claimed to have witnessed that very thing in downtown Vancouver while he was on his way to the leaders' debate.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/did-john-rustad-witness-an-overdose-death-on-his-way-to-the-b-c-leaders-debate-1.7068490

 

And when you have the agency responsible for tracking these sort of events responding with:

Quote

BC Emergency Health Services told CTV News it has "no records of any patient events on Oct. 8 with a location of Robson and Hornby Streets, or on the blocks immediately adjacent to that intersection."

 

The only logical conclusions that can be arrived at are -

1. he's hallucinating 

2. he's lying

 

Either way, not a good look for a person wanting to lead our province.

[Bob Long]

9 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

I am not an expert, but you have said two things now: undrip is redundant, and undrip may give powers to the wrong people... so it is kind of easy to see one of those two things is not correct.

 

nope these things can coexist. Its redundant as its general enough to be already covered by our charter and court decisions.

 

It can give power to the wrong people if applied improperly.

 

9 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

 

 

I don't have the time to give it a thorough looky loo, but from the accounts of people I trust that are working on the file in real time, it seems better for First Nations people to recognize UNDRIP than to not do so. But again I just don't know personally first hand. I would need to find an afternoon of quiet and really dig into it. 

It is already a law in BC that passed with unanimous consent, so I lean towards that as a bit of a guide too. the UN likes it, all the elected members in the BC LEgislature liked it at a point in time: and now during an election where the right feels so emoldened in BC that eh Conservative Party of BC might have a chance at power for the first time in history .. now it is an issue? I dunno: I think Rustad says he will repeal it so that a majority of white old men will vote for Rustad. In this a am a bit of a cynic, i know. 

 

I'd appreciate it if you did, you have a good noodle for this stuff. I'd like to know if you think my concerns are off base. 

 

9 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

i just don't trust John Rustad, for obvious reasons. 

 

he's a dink. 

 

[Duodenum]

16 minutes ago, Sapper said:

What a joke ... He had doubled down on it. This is like the Iraq officer live on tv claiming the USA had been stopped and destroyed ... While the US tanks drove up behind him 

His version has changed 

 

During the campaign, BC Conservative Leader John Rustad has repeatedly said people are "dying on the streets" in the province – and on Tuesday he claimed to have witnessed that very thing in downtown Vancouver while he was on his way to the leaders' debate.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/did-john-rustad-witness-an-overdose-death-on-his-way-to-the-b-c-leaders-debate-1.7068490

Honestly sounded like one of our local posters constant applicable anecdotal stories 

 

Rustad had another random unbelievable story as well, can't remember what it was about though.

Edited October 10 by Duodenum

[Duodenum]

Doesn't look like people liked Rustad's debate performance. Maybe that's why Conservatives have been ducking the debates left and right.

 

Huge swing in the poll odds towards the NDP.

[Optimist Prime]

4 minutes ago, Duodenum said:

Doesn't look like people liked Rustad's debate performance. Maybe that's why Conservatives have been ducking the debates left and right.

 

Huge swing in the poll odds towards the NDP.

I admit to not liking him long before the debate. He was told by his peers they didn't want him as the leader, he quit the party, joined the languishing BC CONS and took half the money and people with him. Then went to work undermining the guy who defeated him to lead the BC United folks, ultimately some backroom deal made that BCUP leader then simply fold the party without consulting his MLA's or candidates... that kind of backroom stuff is the antithesis of democracy. He is a swindler at best and a total crook at worst. It would be a terrible outcome if he was rewarded for that behaviour with the Premiers seat. Policy aside: he is unconscionable as a public leader, and appears to have little to no moral compass. For those reasons I am out. I wouldn't have voted for Falcon either, but if he won I would have shook his hand and said Congrats Mr Premier. 

[Sapper]

7 minutes ago, Duodenum said:

Doesn't look like people liked Rustad's debate performance. Maybe that's why Conservatives have been ducking the debates left and right.

 

Huge swing in the poll odds towards the NDP.

He has been trumped ..... As in the same thing Trump has been told .... No more unscripted events or debates as every time he opens.his mouth hr makes it worse 

[RupertKBD]

43 minutes ago, Sapper said:

What a joke ... He had doubled down on it. This is like the Iraq officer live on tv claiming the USA had been stopped and destroyed ... While the US tanks drove up behind him 

His version has changed 

 

During the campaign, BC Conservative Leader John Rustad has repeatedly said people are "dying on the streets" in the province – and on Tuesday he claimed to have witnessed that very thing in downtown Vancouver while he was on his way to the leaders' debate.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/did-john-rustad-witness-an-overdose-death-on-his-way-to-the-b-c-leaders-debate-1.7068490

 

To the conservative CFF members: This is the kind of thing we're talking about when we decry the "Trumpian" style of politics that is seeping into right wing politics in Canada....

 

Rustad likely knew he would be fact checked on this story, but he didn't care. The message was delivered: Under the previous administration, the streets of our cities have become a dystopian wasteland, where crime and drug use are rampant.....and it's time to start filling the jails, deporting the dark skinned people and get back to the "good old days"....

 

It's straight out of the Trump playbook....

[RupertKBD]

47 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

It is already a law in BC that passed with unanimous consent, so I lean towards that as a bit of a guide too. the UN likes it, all the elected members in the BC LEgislature liked it at a point in time: and now during an election where the right feels so emoldened in BC that eh Conservative Party of BC might have a chance at power for the first time in history .. now it is an issue? I dunno: I think Rustad says he will repeal it so that a majority of white old men will vote for Rustad. In this a am a bit of a cynic, i know. 

 

i just don't trust John Rustad, for obvious reasons. 

 

Exactly. Including John Rustad....

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, RupertKBD said:

So, honest question boys and girls:

 

If Rustad is elected and decides to scrap BC's participation in UNDRIP, will you see this as a net positive for the province?

Hard no.  The rest of Rustad's platform will make the province practically uninhabitable.

[UnkNuk]

1 hour ago, Optimist Prime said:

I don't have the time to give it a thorough looky loo, but from the accounts of people I trust that are working on the file in real time, it seems better for First Nations people to recognize UNDRIP than to not do so.

 

I don't know that much about it either.  But I thought that the controversy about the agreement ddn't lie within the First Nations.  They may be all for it.  The controversy lies with non-aboriginals.  Just what are the implications of that agreement for non-aboriginals?  What are non-aboriginals giving up?  

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, Sapper said:

What a joke ... He had doubled down on it. This is like the Iraq officer live on tv claiming the USA had been stopped and destroyed ... While the US tanks drove up behind him 

His version has changed 

 

During the campaign, BC Conservative Leader John Rustad has repeatedly said people are "dying on the streets" in the province – and on Tuesday he claimed to have witnessed that very thing in downtown Vancouver while he was on his way to the leaders' debate.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/did-john-rustad-witness-an-overdose-death-on-his-way-to-the-b-c-leaders-debate-1.7068490

Reminds me of Heddy Fry Liberal Mp who claimed, in the house of commons, that "people are burning crosses in Prince George, even as  we speak."

A few months later, around Easter time she was on the CKNW Bill Good program, and I managed to get on air.

I said a little bit, then as a closing " Bill, I'd like to stay around, but I'm burning hot cross buns, even as we speak".

He laughed enough to go to a break.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Duodenum said:

Honestly sounded like one of our local posters constant applicable anecdotal stories 

 

OMG did you just Dox Petey? 

[Coconuts]

3 hours ago, RupertKBD said:

So, honest question boys and girls:

 

If Rustad is elected and decides to scrap BC's participation in UNDRIP, will you see this as a net positive for the province?

 

No, I've seen it said that it's redundant but I view it as having value. One also needs to give thought to why Rudstad wants to get rid of it in the first place, and not just in terms of what he's had to say, but moreso what he potentially hasn't. Dude is a snake and can't be trusted, he's making promises out the whazoo. Who benefits from repealing it? Because I doubt it's Indigenous Peoples. 

 

I don't view any of this as being negative. https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/governments/indigenous-people/new-relationship/united-nations-declaration-on-the-rights-of-indigenous-peoples

 

"The legislation is meant to provide a framework for the province to align its laws with the standards of the UN declaration — something Indigenous groups have long been advocating for in B.C. and across the country.", I think this is important. I know folks are skeptical of the UN nowadays but this actually tethers Indigenous rights to the international community to a degree, as opposed to just Canadian systems, which historically haven't done all that right by Indigenous Peoples. 

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/bc-undrip-indigenous-rights-1.5333137

 

"UNDRIP has now been endorsed by both B.C. and Canada. It consists of 46 articles meant to recognize the basic human rights of Indigenous people along with their rights to self-determination.", this is something I think is worth keeping around. Just because something doesn't have step by step instructions or clear guidance on everything doesn't mean it's not worth having, because recognizing the basic human rights of Indigenous Peoples is something worth aspiring to on a broader level, given that historically that very much hasn't been the case.

 

Even amongst Indigenous Peoples the band council, leadership bits vs the hereditary bits, it's complicated. But again, blame Canada, because if one goes back and digs into the history, it all ties back to the Indian Act. Obviously the hereditary system predates colonial mechanisms. 

 

More than likely Rustad trying to utilize UNDRIP is more a means to a political end than about anything to do with helping Indigenous Peoples. 

 

I would particularly encourage the reading of pages 5 and 6.

 

https://irshdc.ubc.ca/files/2020/03/UNDRIP_Article1_Consistency.pdf

Edited October 10 by Coconuts