B.C. Politics Thread

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

What? Kids get to pass even if they fail?

 

Saw it when my daughter went through the system. 

 

It's not teachers being lazy, its more about the idea that kids will do better in life if not held back. I don't know what the right answer is or how it's being evaluated.

 

I would like to see a bigger emphasis on trades training much earlier in school. Lots of kids would excel in that vs more book learning.

 

[UnkNuk]

10 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

I, too, experienced that in my high school days...teachers didn't want us back in their class so passed us to get rid of us.

 

Oh?   Do tell.  Just what were you doing that teachers didn't want you back in their class?

 

(This could be quite entertaining!)   

 

j/k

[Boudrias]

3 hours ago, -dlc- said:

You have to go back to see the roots of many of our problems.

 

It's not just something that's developed in the recent past....this has been a slow deterioration over time. Especially in relation to the first two points.

 

Fentanyl tied to money laundering tied to casinos and real estate, the education system (that no longer accepts large cash payments for tuition as a result). Blind eyes that allowed this stuff to happen because those in power were part of the problem, not the solution. Rubbing shoulders with criminals.

 

There is not one party to blame here. It's just that some are expected to fix messes that were left unattended to.

I can agree on that.

[Sapper]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-conservatives-election-eductation-policy-1.7351918

 

Interesting.... So are cons saying bullying and violence against any child even perceived as gay or from gay home is good to return ....it's all.part of the good Christian youth learning experience ?

 

The school system tried for generations to leave sex Ed to parents and turned a blind eye to bullying ... All with disastrous outcomes.  The education and work in bullying is a direct result of evangelical policies of don't educate and some kids are ok to bully mentality.

 

Sogi is simply tools teachers can use to educate children that families are made up differently and they are all ok .... Removing sogi means only evangelical family units can be supported in schools. It also means by refusing to include discussions of families made up of same sex adults that we are putting bullseyes in those kids for torment .... And I say we because folks aren't doing enough to call out religious grooming that is going on 

 

All this con work to make life just like 1950 for some kids and not one day thing to ensure safety and equality at schools for all kids ... Not just kids who are and are from a straight traditional family unit 

 

BC cons feel anything that supports anything other than evangelical style lives is grooming when in fact it's them trying to set up the system 

[Wilbur]

34 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I will allow the 3 or 4 teachers in here address that appropriately 

I teach high school and I do see some students entering grade 10 kind of expecting auto-passing.  The reality is Grad Plans start in grade 10 and if you don't meet the requirements of the course you don't get credit.  Now, obviously I can't speak for every teacher out there, but I don't see auto-passing happening.  

 

There are alternate grad paths that can make things easier for some students, but neither of them are considered "full grads" even if you get to walk the stage in a cap and gown.  1 is the Evergreen.  This is for students that may have cognitive issues.  The focus is on IEP (individual education plan) goals rather than curricular goals.  There should have been some testing done by a school psychologist in order to be able to grad by this path (to assess for cognitive issues).  The Evergreen would not help you much for post-secondary.  I had a student graduate I couple years ago via this path.  Great kid, super nice, hard worker, great baker.  Cognitive disabilities prevented them from having a chance at getting 3 years of high school English successfully completed.

 

Another is the Adult Grad.  The requirement for an Adult Grad is 5 senior courses.  An English 12, a Math 11, plus 3 other recognized grade 12 courses.  These are courses are to be completed after a student turns 18.  This is what I find many of my students fall into because they have missed so much in their previous years of schooling (due to a wide range of circumstances).  And while you get to walk the stage, it's not a full grad either.  But an Adult Grad can be handy to get into many programs that don't have a long a list of prerequisites (many Trades programs, for example).

Edited Monday at 09:42 PM by Wilbur

[Warhippy]

4 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

I teach high school and I do see some students entering grade 10 kind of expecting that.  The reality is Grad Plans start in grade 10 and if you don't meet the requirements of the course you don't get credit.  Now, obviously I can't speak for every teacher out there, but I don't see auto-passing happening.  

 

There are alternate grad paths that can make things easier for some students, but neither of them are considered "full grads" even if you get to walk the stage in a cap and gown.  1 is the Evergreen.  This is for students that may have cognitive issues.  The focus is on IEP (individual education plan) goals rather than curricular goals.  There should have been some testing done by a school psychologist in order to be able to grad by this path (to assess for cognitive issues).  The Evergreen would not help you much for post-secondary.  I had a student graduate I couple years ago via this path.  Great kid, super nice, hard worker, great baker.  Cognitive disabilities prevented them from having a chance at getting 3 years of high school English successfully completed.

 

Another is the Adult Grad.  The requirement for an Adult Grad is 5 senior courses.  An English 12, a Math 11, plus 3 other recognized grade 12 courses.  These are courses are to be completed after a student turns 18.  This is what I find many of my students fall into because they have missed so much in their previous years of schooling (due to a wide range of circumstances).  And while you get to walk the stage, it's not a full grad either.  But an Adult Grad can be handy to get into many programs that don't have a long a list of prerequisites (many Trades programs, for example).

Thanks for the clarification!

[Wilbur]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Thanks for the clarification!

You're welcome.  Just continue to expect your daughters to finish that 80 credit grad.  Definitely makes things easier if transitioning to post secondary.

[Gurn]

I'm fine with uplifting word/grades

I'm fine with letter grades.

My issue is  with how, and why words are used.

coffin

casket

pine box

crypt

we are still dealing with a dead guy.

 

retarded

handicapped

developmentally disabled

special needs.

we are still dealing with some one that is  not quite, like most of us.

 

we need to deal with issues, not get too tied up in word play.

 

 

 

[Satchmo]

1 minute ago, Gurn said:

I'm fine with uplifting word/grades

I'm fine with letter grades.

My issue is  with how, and why words are used.

coffin

casket

pine box

crypt

we are still dealing with a dead guy.

 

retarded

handicapped

developmentally disabled

special needs.

we are still dealing with some one that is  not quite, like most of us.

 

we need to deal with issues, not get too tied up in word play.

 

 

 

We can't ask the dead guy how he feels about those words.   We could ask the others mentioned how they feel.  We could even ask them which words they like the best.

[-dlc-]

1 hour ago, UnkNuk said:

 

Oh?   Do tell.  Just what were you doing that teachers didn't want you back in their class?

 

(This could be quite entertaining!)   

 

j/k

I plead the fifth (we were a little wild)

[Gurn]

21 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

We can't ask the dead guy how he feels about those words.   We could ask the others mentioned how they feel.  We could even ask them which words they like the best.

We could- and the answer we'd likely get is not because of the words-but how the word was used.

Context.

I'm fine calling people damn near anything they want to be called, but words change, contexts change.

For decades there were retarded people, now we call them something else- but they are still 'different' than the so called rest of us.

I spent over ten years working with the retarded

after a year of employment, they were no no longer referred to as retarded, we used a different word.

then a couple years later that word changed- but the people were still different

then the words changed again

and again

and again.

Their condition had not changed, just the words that were used.

 

And all the asshole, bigots, and scum bags, slowly changed to using the new words; however they continued to use those words in derogatory, belittling ways.

 

I'd rather put more energy into changing people's attitudes about things, and people 'with special needs' than coming up with new words to describe the same thing.

[Alflives]

28 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

We can't ask the dead guy how he feels about those words.   We could ask the others mentioned how they feel.  We could even ask them which words they like the best.

I think the point is the feeling of words changes over time. How long before we need to change this word salad scale of classifying students because the lower levels are associated with being dumb? 
Do we eventually start handicapping the smart so they don’t have advantage? Kurt Vonnegut was very prophetic with “Harrison Bergeron”. 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Gurn said:

We could- and the answer we'd likely get is not because of the words-but how the word was used.

Context.

I'm fine calling people damn near anything they want to be called, but words change, contexts change.

For decades there were retarded people, now we call them something else- but they are still 'different' than the so called rest of us.

I spent over ten years working with the retarded

after a year of employment, they were no no longer referred to as retarded, we used a different word.

then a couple years later that word changed- but the people were still different

then the words changed again

and again

and again.

Their condition had not changed, just the words that were used.

 

And all the asshole, bigots, and scum bags, slowly changed to using the new words; however they continued to use those words in derogatory, belittling ways.

 

I'd rather put more energy into changing people's attitudes about things, and people 'with special needs' than coming up with new words to describe the same thing.

This ^^^^^ 

[Satchmo]

1 minute ago, Gurn said:

We could- and the answer we'd likely get is not because of the words-but how the word was used.

Context.

I'm fine calling people damn near anything they want to be called, but words change, contexts change.

For decades there were retarded people, now we call them something else- but they are still 'different' than the so called rest of us.

I spent over ten years working with the retarded

after a year of employment, they were no no longer referred to as retarded, we used a different word.

then a couple years later that word changed- but the people were still different

then the words changed again

and again

and again.

Their condition had not changed, just the words that were used.

 

And all the asshole, bigots, and scum bags, slowly changed to using the new words; however they continued to use those words in derogatory, belittling ways.

 

I'd rather put more energy into changing people's attitudes about things, and people 'with special needs' than coming up with new words to describe the same thing.

We are just not to agree on this on my friend.

 

Nice to hear of someone else who did the same thing I did for just as many years.  My wife did too. Though, while you worked with the retarded, we worked with the mentally handicapped.  

 

(Those words were even in the name of the agency we worked for.)

[Satchmo]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

I think the point is the feeling of words changes over time. How long before we need to change this word salad scale of classifying students because the lower levels are associated with being dumb? 
Do we eventually start handicapping the smart so they don’t have advantage? Kurt Vonnegut was very prophetic with “Harrison Bergeron”. 

Good story (like anything else by Vonnegut). Not applicable to this discussion though IMO.

 

Yes, 'political correctness'  can get out of hand. I agree with that.  But only my point was:   What do the people involved want to be called?    That's all.  

 

Certain groups of people have let us know they do not wish to be called Indians, or coloured, or faggots, or...  We seem to have listened to those people. Why not also listen to 'the retards'?

 

Edited Tuesday at 12:45 AM by Satchmo
sp

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Satchmo said:

Good story (like anything else by Vonnegut). Not applicable to this discussion though IMO.

 

Yes, 'political correctness'  can get out of hand. I agree with that.  But only my point was:   What do the people involved want too be called?    That's all.  

 

Certain groups of people have let us know they do not wish to be called Indians, or coloured, or faggots, or...  We seem to have listened to those people. Why not also listen to 'the retards'?

There are words that have an historic ugliness to them that should not be used, regardless of intention. 
The eduction system not grading kids anymore, or using some world salad to classify success or failure as it now appears, has become a political issue. Do we want our kids to struggle and compete or do we want them to move along regardless of effort and (or) ability? 
It’s a damned competitive world. 

[bishopshodan]

11 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

What do the people involved want too be called? 

 

The platinum rule.

[Gurn]

42 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

We are just not to agree on this on my friend.

 

Nice to hear of someone else who did the same thing I did for just as many years.  My wife did too. Though, while you worked with the retarded, we worked with the mentally handicapped.  

 

(Those words were even in the name of the agency we worked for.)

Thing is I also worked with the mentally handicapped, and the  physically/mentally disadvantaged, and those with special needs. Heck, for awhile I worked with the developmentally disabled.

In fact, I've been considering returning to that line of work.

I'd have to learn the new words, that are to be used;  but  my liking, and want to help those folk, has not changed.

 

 

 

[-dlc-]

1 hour ago, Gurn said:

We could- and the answer we'd likely get is not because of the words-but how the word was used.

Context.

I'm fine calling people damn near anything they want to be called, but words change, contexts change.

For decades there were retarded people, now we call them something else- but they are still 'different' than the so called rest of us.

I spent over ten years working with the retarded

after a year of employment, they were no no longer referred to as retarded, we used a different word.

then a couple years later that word changed- but the people were still different

then the words changed again

and again

and again.

Their condition had not changed, just the words that were used.

 

And all the asshole, bigots, and scum bags, slowly changed to using the new words; however they continued to use those words in derogatory, belittling ways.

 

I'd rather put more energy into changing people's attitudes about things, and people 'with special needs' than coming up with new words to describe the same thing.

Thing is though, some words came to have very negative connotations and that created stigma and discrimination. They were inflammatory.

 

We've learned that people with disabilities often learn to use other senses/motor skills/ways to function and it can be quite astonishing. That the obstacles they face don't define them. I worked in a school for students on the spectrum and in entering their world (rather than trying to force them into ours) it became "normal" to interact with them quite easily. And they were brilliant in many regards.

 

I recently had to write our Accessibility Plan (mandatory) and the things that are often hurdles for people with disabilities are simply things that we haven't adjusted to accommodate them.

 

We also want to move away from thinking of them as "different". They're human beings and very much like you or I.

 

I think changing attitudes comes with removing terms that are more limiting than inclusive. 

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, -dlc- said:

I think changing attitudes comes with removing terms that are more limiting than inclusive. 

I'd rather work on changing attitudes, than being so worried about words. Especially as the 'good' words we use today, will often become the bad words of tomorrow.

As I've said- I don't really have a problem with using 'new/better words'; other than the focus seems a bit misplaced.

 

The kids that used to belittle their classmates that got F's will still be belittle those kids that got 'emerging'.

And those adults will still be belittling people when they use 'mentally challenged', instead of 'retarded'.

 

Fortunately, the school system IS doing a good job, getting rid of bullying and belittlement. Gives me hope for the future. 

I've mentioned it before, but that year of being a janitor custodian for the School board up here was awesome.

All the hope, energy and optimism of the kids was really good for me. 

In my limited time I did notice that about 90% of these up and coming kids don't give a fuck what colour you are, or who you want to sleep with.  Which is miles ahead of my generation. Their  inclusivity towards the 'mentally disadvantage' students is also very good news.

 

We just have to keep things going, until these kids take over, we will be in good hands.

 

"There are no bad words, just words used badly" George Carlin

 

[Satchmo]

1 hour ago, Gurn said:

Thing is I also worked with the mentally handicapped, and the  physically/mentally disadvantaged, and those with special needs. Heck, for awhile I worked with the developmentally disabled.

In fact, I've been considering returning to that line of work.

I'd have to learn the new words, that are to be used;  but  my liking, and want to help those folk, has not changed.

 

 

 

And how did all those fine people you worked with like to be described?   I'd say whatever it was, go with that.

(And I get the George Carlin stuff about words.  I'm talking about people more than I'm talking about words.)

[4petesake]

10 minutes ago, Gurn said:

 

Fortunately, the school system IS doing a good job, getting rid of bullying and belittlement. Gives me hope for the future. 

I've mentioned it before, but that year of being a janitor custodian for the School board up here was awesome.

All the hope, energy and optimism of the kids was really good for me. 

In my limited time I did notice that about 90% of these up and coming kids don't give a fuck what colour you are, or who you want to sleep with.  Which is miles ahead of my generation. Their  inclusivity towards the 'mentally disadvantage' students is also very good news.

 

We just have to keep things going, until these kids take over, we will be in good hands.

 

 

Speaking of this - What a shock that an anti-bullying program turns out to…wait for it…reduce bullying for everyone, even heterosexual students.

 

SOGI 123 in B.C.’s schools reduces discrimination even for heterosexual students: report

By Amy Judd  Global News

Posted October 9, 2024 1:52 pm

 Updated October 12, 2024 

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/10803074/sogi-123-bc-schools-effective-discrimination-heterosexual-students-report/

 

[Optimist Prime]

20 hours ago, Wilbur said:

I teach high school and I do see some students entering grade 10 kind of expecting auto-passing.  The reality is Grad Plans start in grade 10 and if you don't meet the requirements of the course you don't get credit.  Now, obviously I can't speak for every teacher out there, but I don't see auto-passing happening.  

 

There are alternate grad paths that can make things easier for some students, but neither of them are considered "full grads" even if you get to walk the stage in a cap and gown.  1 is the Evergreen.  This is for students that may have cognitive issues.  The focus is on IEP (individual education plan) goals rather than curricular goals.  There should have been some testing done by a school psychologist in order to be able to grad by this path (to assess for cognitive issues).  The Evergreen would not help you much for post-secondary.  I had a student graduate I couple years ago via this path.  Great kid, super nice, hard worker, great baker.  Cognitive disabilities prevented them from having a chance at getting 3 years of high school English successfully completed.

 

Another is the Adult Grad.  The requirement for an Adult Grad is 5 senior courses.  An English 12, a Math 11, plus 3 other recognized grade 12 courses.  These are courses are to be completed after a student turns 18.  This is what I find many of my students fall into because they have missed so much in their previous years of schooling (due to a wide range of circumstances).  And while you get to walk the stage, it's not a full grad either.  But an Adult Grad can be handy to get into many programs that don't have a long a list of prerequisites (many Trades programs, for example).

it has certainly changed a LOT since my high school graduation over thirty years ago. The year I graduated, a severely handicapped boy who generally ran in tight circles while eating his own hand most of the day got a Dogwood Diploma, same as me. It felt discouraging to be honest, but my thoughts have changed and grown in the intervening years. I am happy to now read there are distinctions between the diplomas. Back then there were not. 
I had my own apartment and three jobs in Grade 12, and I was a bit smarter than the average public school grade 12 kid. I only attended two English 12 classes all year, and had many 'discussions' (arguments) with the English teacher and my councillor about being held back from graduating. They decided with the principals intervention that due to my personal situation of paying my own way in life and having three jobs and averaging A's in all the other classes that I could challenge the English 12 exam. I think i got 94%, something in the A or A+ range anyways, and got to graduate. I had also skipped grade 1 and went directly to grade 2 earlier in life, so I was happy to get away without having to redo even part of a year there. Meanwhile Mikey was just eating his hand and happy as a lark running in circles. Same diploma, he even ran in tight little circles across the stage to get the diploma, to great cheers. His bar was set. I don't know why I took it personally that they tried to hold me back when i had mastered the material while they were pushing him out with as a full grad who would need a babysitter 24/7 the rest of his days. But there it is. For the record, today I feel a lot differently, as we are collectively treating people with learning disabilities much better and their outcomes are greatly improved. Being at the spear thrust point of that turnaround was not good for the rest of us students though. IMO. In part, his inclusion in various classes is why I think those classes had the highest 'skips' out of the entire school. 

 

So then my nephew was in school during a change to modular learning they were trialing at his high school. He had to do I think it was 45 modules in any one course to pass that course. It was work at your own pace. By the time he turned 19 he had not finished enough modules to complete high school and the principal and councilor suggested he stop coming to school and carry on with life. He was a self made millionaire already in the farming industry after having secured the rights to both artificial inseminating bull semen companies in western canada and was managing herds for dozens of farms by this point, as well as some other sidelines. He owned a restaurant at a young age too and sold it for a profit. So now he is a multi-millionaire 42 year old, or was it 41? hrm.. doesn't matter. 

 

So my point is the system will never be perfect for everyone, the key is that it evolves to be good for the most people. What really matters is the drive of the individuals as they grow up. That they learn how to learn, and interact nicely in a rules based society. Not everyone will be a Dr or a Lawyer, pronounced liar, hehe. But if you can learn how to keep learning, and feel like a valued member of society, school has kind of done its job. There will always be what my wife and i call "schlubbies" that at the peak of their existance will barely hold onto a job at McDonalds, but those people are crucial too. 

 

I just really hope that taxpayer money will eventually not be given to religious based schools at all, nor private schools and focused clearly and wholly at public education schools. Secondly I hope those schools will evolve so they are not viewed as 8 to 3 babysitting during work days. That really browns my biscuits. Parents don't care their kids are not learning the multiplication tables on a professioinal development day, they care about 'who gonna look after dis babay while I am work'. Sad times. 

[Optimist Prime]

now: why i really came to the thread this morning:
Opinion | A fringe party packed with conspiracy theorists could soon be leading one of Canada’s largest provinces. Here’s why I’m not surprised

Quote

British Columbia’s provincial election is getting extremely weird, and it might be a sign something’s deeply broken in Canadian democracy.

The Conservative Party of B.C. — led by a man who had to issue a mea culpa after discussing the idea of prosecuting doctors in “Nuremberg”-style COVID-19 trials — has been surging in the polls. The party now looks set to make significant gains or perhaps even replace the incumbent B.C. NDP.

It’s more than an understatement to say John Rustad’s B.C. Conservatives represent a major ideological shift in B.C. politics. This party is not simply to the “far-right” of the B.C. NDP, they’re also far to the right of B.C.’s business-friendly, small-c conservative establishment of the last 60-plus years.

 

This is a party that won only one per cent of the vote in the last provincial election back in 2020. In fact, a number of its candidates were previously affiliated with Maxime Bernier’s People’s Party, a party known for welcoming bigots, conspiracy theorists and others with views far outside the mainstream.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/a-fringe-party-packed-with-conspiracy-theorists-could-soon-be-leading-one-of-canadas-largest/

[bolt]

https://www.conservativebc.ca/ideas

 

Finally but too late.  It's not as "far right" as we've been lied to by a sad and desperate Eby.

Edited Tuesday at 07:26 PM by bolt