[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks Vs. Seattle Krakens, Climate Pledge Arena, September 28, @ 7PM PST, Preseason Game #3

[Canuckle]

15 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Soft af if that bothers you

 

No kidding. It's such a childlike view of the world. Shorthouse is top tier in the business-- That's why they had him doing out of market playoff games in the first place.

[GrammaInTheTub]

11 minutes ago, Tusk said:

Well you were replying to a post about Beau being a better trade than garland... I disagree with you Garlund is like a mighty mouse on the boards and worth his contract. Beau is also a cheap contract in the reality of things and has alot of upside.

 

Listen here boys, you’re both allowed to be right and don’t forget that 

[Tusk]

6 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

 

No kidding. It's such a childlike view of the world. Shorthouse is top tier in the business-- That's why they had him doing out of market playoff games in the first place.

Shorthouse tends to get happy when edmonton, toronto, boston or Montreal is in town. He talks about the other team players who are on a roll or on a drought and then wooops, they score. Cause 3 million people watching are like thinking about those poor fellas.

YOu know how Cheech told him to stop mentioning shutout when Luongo kept letting in that late 3rd period goal when they were up 8-0? 

 

[Canuckle]

59 minutes ago, cripplereh said:

Well 0-2-1 with two goals only is such q bad start no matter who has been playing.

 

3 pre in now we need to shift gears and play our actual team.

 

Well you're in luck. That was always the plan.

 

First games they gave the ahl/nhl cuspers try outs and see who rises to the top and earns themselves a job -- The best of the worst.

 

The last few games will be used to get the projected NHL roster prepped.

 

The scores didn't matter. Tocchet et al. are primarily looking at the details, "staples," and effort of individual players. Little more.

[canuck73_3]

13 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

 

Same talk as last season. It was only pre-season, nothing to worry about. Then once regular season hit we said it's only 5 games, then only 10 then it was too late.

 

While it's true pre-season means nothing in the standings and while the games not all NHL regulars were dressed, 3 loses and 2 goals scored is quite alarming. 

I’ll still hold judgement till the full roster plays 

[Aldergrove Canuck]

3 hours ago, Canuckle said:

Last year has nothing to do with this year or this years camp. The only similarity is that Mikheyev is out.

 

It's the preseason. Means fuck all.

You're gonna be that same guy, saying the same dumb old shit about how "there's still time" when we're like 15 games out of a wild card spot, 55 games into the season. 

Every. Game. Matters. 

I don't care if it's preseason or not, they need to get their shit together and quick. It's imperative that we get off to a healthy start and build a cushion for the tough parts of our schedule. Our division is no longer the push over that it was... LA is back to being quite good, Edmonton is good, Calgary will be looking to bounce back, we have the reigning champs in our division and Seattle has clearly already eclipsed us. There's 0 room for error in our division, and the team having a lax attitude going into the year will certainly spell disaster for us once again.

[Tusk]

3 minutes ago, Aldergrove Canuck said:

You're gonna be that same guy, saying the same dumb old shit about how "there's still time" when we're like 15 games out of a wild card spot, 55 games into the season. 

Every. Game. Matters. 

I don't care if it's preseason or not, they need to get their shit together and quick. It's imperative that we get off to a healthy start and build a cushion for the tough parts of our schedule. Our division is no longer the push over that it was... LA is back to being quite good, Edmonton is good, Calgary will be looking to bounce back, we have the reigning champs in our division and Seattle has clearly already eclipsed us. There's 0 room for error in our division, and the team having a lax attitude going into the year will certainly spell disaster for us once again.

I guess you are not watching the games then, or you would notice we are the only team not playing our first/second lines, and Demko had his first game tonight with at least 3 defensemen who will not be on the opening roster.

 

[iinatcc]

6 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

I’ll still hold judgement till the full roster plays 

 

I think the guys in Sportsnet said it best. If this was a core that has had some success the last few seasons, we can easily brush off the pre-season results. 

However, with this core. It hasn't earned that benefit of the doubt. 

It's still a team and core that needs to prove themselves regarldess if this is a regular season game or pre-season

[Truefan99]

28 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Well the choice is one of the two Garland is better 5 on 5 bye Beau. 

Well  i like the third option. Neither of the two. 

[Tusk]

1 minute ago, iinatcc said:

 

I think the guys in Sportsnet said it best. If this was a core that has had some success the last few seasons, we can easily brush off the pre-season results. 

However, with this core. It hasn't earned that benefit of the doubt. 

It's still a team and core that needs to prove themselves regarldess if this is a regular season game or pre-season

Sportsnet? You believe that stuff? Oh, right, they seem to be part owners of the NHL now, Bettman has a new income source

[kilgore]

37 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

 

What?

 

The Dickinson and the 2nd for Stillman was about making space (at a time virtually no teams were taking money) to later acquire Ethan Bear. That was the long play.

 

Organization stated they were working on that trade with Carolina for a long time. Dickinson trade was the first move on the board to do it. We can in essence link those trades together like a 3 team trade-- it just didn't happen all at once.

 

And regardless of timeline it doesn't matter anyway. Less about the when  and more about what they did with the assets gained in total.

 

A more honest view of the trade looks more like this:

 

Ethan Bear, Lane Pederson, Riley Stillman (and Carolina retains 400,000 of Ethan Bear salary)

 

for

 

Jason Dickinson, 2nd rd pick, 5th round pick.

 

And that's pretty good.

 

In a vacuum, yeah sure it looks bad. But that's not really the case in reality given the circumstances.  And it would be dishonest to say it was "the dumbest trade" without taking any of that into account. Just saying.

 

Another honest view.

 

Ethan Bear thanks to the 1.3 cap savings (hopefully he does re-sign), Bloom (who we got for Stillman) who just may be a steal, but no Lane Pederson (because  he was claimed off waivers unfortunately)

 

for

 

Jason Dickinson, 2nd rd pick, 5th round pick

 

 

I take your point that it all worked out okay.  But you are assuming Stillman was acquired strictly to facilitate the deal with Carolina after four months playing time here. At the time we got him, it wasn't just about creating cap space, it was also about shoring up our defence. With a physical veteran D. At least that was the messaging coming from management.  That's why we gave up (yet another) second round pick in there to do it. Even after the JR speech about not trading away any more draft picks.

 

By all accounts Bear is focused on re-signing with the Canucks, but he hasn't yet.

 

So another honest view of the whole thing is

 

1.3 mill in cap savings, Bloom

 

For a second round pick, and 5th round.

 

 

If Bloom and the 5th cancel each other out,

then it is one more of our dwindling second round picks

for

1.3 mill in cap savings for one more season. I don't know if that's such a bargain.

 

But yeah, if Bear re-signs, I guess it will be worth that second, as its now go time apparently.

 

I see your point, i was just trying to use some example of what was deemed at the time a mistake, as Stillman never really got up to speed here, to make a bigger point about the undervaluing of what Burroughs brought to the team as a 7/8 D, especially for what he was asking.

[Strawbone]

2 hours ago, Snoop Hogg said:

They haven’t played with a full roster yet. 

Which is exactly why I started with “if the full roster puts in a performance like this”. Ultimately it’s the regular season and playoffs that matter, but this team doesn’t have a history of bad pre-seasons followed by amazing regular seasons. You can’t just turn it on like a light switch (outlier years excepted). 

[Tusk]

I think with the next one being Edmonton, and on Sportsnet, you will see more of the actual team. 

And hopefully Edmonton brings everyone too, so we dont just kill thier AHL team 20 to 0.

[Canuckle]

Just now, Aldergrove Canuck said:

Every. Game. Matters.

I don't care if it's preseason or not...

 

...will certainly spell disaster for us once again.

 Every season game matters, yeah.

 

These are warm ups to the season-- They barely qualify as "games" given their purpose. It's simply not the same thing.

 

And yes I can tell you don't care if it's preseason because you don't understand the purpose. Ie. Why in

 

Game 1 was all ahlers. -- Theyre fighting for jobs, being evaluated.

 

game 2 split squad, game 3 split squad

 

If the org felt these games were so extremely crucial you think they'd be doing that? No.

 

Look, if they had their full NHL roster in every game and they're losing 10-0 then you can go on a rant how bad this and that is. Until then everything you're saying is extremely premature, and frankly missing the forest for the trees. The score don't matter.

 

Secondly, last year and any other year before this has nothing to do with this training camp, preseason or the season yet to come. Zilch.

 

But ruffle your feathers and scream the sky is already falling if you like.  It's bullshit, but do your thing.

[Aldergrove Canuck]

12 minutes ago, Tusk said:

I guess you are not watching the games then, or you would notice we are the only team not playing our first/second lines, and Demko had his first game tonight with at least 3 defensemen who will not be on the opening roster.

 

10 shots 55 minutes into a game is not going to win you many games, I don't care who is on the ice, that is just unacceptable. 

I wish fans like you would stop making every excuse in the book for this team that has been garbage for the better part of a decade.

[Tusk]

1 minute ago, Aldergrove Canuck said:

10 shots 55 minutes into a game is not going to win you many games, I don't care who is on the ice, that is just unacceptable. 

I wish fans like you would stop making every excuse in the book for this team that has been garbage for the better part of a decade.

well at least you are only 10 minutes drive to abbotsford Canucks and maybe free parking too. I think you should go there if you dont have patience to see the team we have grow into the team they can be

 

[wai_lai416]

3 minutes ago, Tusk said:

I guess you are not watching the games then, or you would notice we are the only team not playing our first/second lines, and Demko had his first game tonight with at least 3 defensemen who will not be on the opening roster.

 

so miller is going to be the 3rd line?

 

you guys act like seattle played their top players against us.. seattle played their 2nd/3rd and 1 regular pairing defenceman..

we played our 2nd/3rd line and 3/6 projected starting defenceman

 

bernier mccann erbele didn't even play tonight. 

megna olofsson fleury evans are not even projected to be their starting 6 defenceman..

 

we literally generated no chance no offence with our projected 2nd/3rd line against a team rocking 4 ahl defenceman.. outside of bains sasson and karlsson.. all the player we iced are either regulars or have legit shot at being on opening night roster.. we literally iced a very similar 2/3/4 vs their 2/3/4 and simliar defence.. 

[Aldergrove Canuck]

2 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

Game 1 was all ahlers. -- Theyre fighting for jobs, being evaluated.

 

game 2 split squad, game 3 split squad

 

If the org felt these games were so extremely crucial you think they'd be doing that? No.

That right there is why I, like many others are pissed off right now. 

They talk the talk and preach how IMPORTANT it is to get off to a good start. They acknowledge that previous pre-seasons have been a failure and have lead to them having a slow start out of the gate into the regular season, and how they look to rectify that this year, in this pre-season, and then proceed to do the same EXACT thing that resulted in previous poor starts to the season. 

It's extremely frustrating to be promised something, and then not have it delivered. 

Don't fucking preach to me about how you want to get off to a good start, and then dick around with the roster trying guys out. They know weeks in advance who will and will not be on the opening night roster, barring some minor miracle. 

If you want to evaluate guys, that's why you have an AHL squad, let them feed the NHL team intel on how their prospects are doing, that is what the AHL is for, development. Pre-season, at least in my mind is for the veterans to shake off rust and get into form before the games start counting for points... Time to work out the kinks, maybe try a new line combo to see if there's some chemistry, that sort of thing. Not seeing what they have out of 10 possible AHL lifers. 
 

[canuck73_3]

21 minutes ago, Truefan99 said:

Well  i like the third option. Neither of the two. 

Garland is our best 5 on 5 player and draws the most penalties. It’s not even up for debate. 

[Aldergrove Canuck]

4 minutes ago, Tusk said:

well at least you are only 10 minutes drive to abbotsford Canucks and maybe free parking too. I think you should go there if you dont have patience to see the team we have grow into the team they can be

 

I don't want to pull rank here, but I've been a fan of this team for 25 years that I can actively remember and I think that I've been pretty patient. I'm also a full season ticket holder for the Abby Canucks, from Day 1. I bleed green and blue, black, yellow and red, whatever colours you like, you get the point. 

I will always cheer for this team, but I'm not gonna sit by and pretend like there aren't some festering issues that don't seem to go away, regardless of the regime in charge and it's getting pretty old at this point.

[Canuckle]

8 minutes ago, kilgore said:

At the time we got Stillman, it wasn't just about creating cap space, it was also about shoring up our defence...

 

.... i was just trying to use some example of what was deemed at the time a mistake, as Stillman never really got up to speed here, to make a bigger point about the undervaluing of what Burroughs brought to the team as a 7/8 D, especially for what he was asking.

 

For starters we were talking about the initial trades themselves. If we want to move the goalposts to include things that happened after the fact then okay, but that still doesn't make the initial trade(s) bad at the time.

 

Bad later? Maybe. Most likely. Hell, I probably agree with you on that. But that wasn't really the focus there.

 

Bottomline is the trades still served a purpose at the time and made sense for them given the circumstances.

 

 I'm not saying Stillman himself was needed to facilitate the trade with Carolina. Dickinson money off the books was the primary facilitator in that with teams capped out all over the place and limited options.

 

Stillman was acquired primarily because they had a ton of injuries on the backend. They needed a warm body that could at least play above AHL level (little did we know.) Getting him in return from Chicago was moreso forced neccesity rather than wanting him specifically for some perceived "skillset." They needed a plug, and that's exactly what they got.  I just don't think they realized they were getting a fucking butt plug...and a big one at that. Fuck was he horrible.

 

And hey I liked Burroughs too. Allvin said they offered him a deal but he wanted more job security so took a longer contract in San Jose.   It wasn't about the money-- it was the term.  Canucks are hoping to have the roster carved out in the next few years here and they won't (theoretically) have a place for him. Much as I would have loved to have him this year, it wasn't really an option by the sounds of it.

[Canuckle]

38 minutes ago, Aldergrove Canuck said:

That right there is why I, like many others are pissed off right now.

 Well I hate to be the guy to tell you this but not every single game (or preseason scrimmage) is about winning and losing.  Games can be about more than that, and frankly sometimes they should. Case in point: preseason "games." It's just this "more than that" part I think you're failing to see.

 

If I'm hearing you correctly, there is nothing more important, at any time for any reason,than winning and losing. But life, I'm afraid, is much more complicated than that,  On and off the ice.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Canuckle

[Aldergrove Canuck]

4 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

 Well I hate to be the guy to tell you this but not every single game (or preseason scrimmage) is about winning and losing.  Games can be about more than that, and frankly sometimes they should. Case in point: preseason "games." It's just this "more than that" part I think you're failing to see.

 

If I'm hearing you correctly, there is nothing more important, at any time for any reason,than winning and losing. But life, I'm afraid, is much more complicated than that,  On and off the ice.

lol I love when people don't have a leg to stand on, so they get philosophical. In your words, I hate to be the guy to break this to you, but in Hockey, I'm afraid, is all about winning and losing, doesn't matter in my eyes what time of year that is. 

The long and the short of it is we need to hold our team to a higher standard. Stop making excuses, enough saying what we need to do, and actually do it.

I think the thing, honestly that gets my goat the most has been the overall effort level out of the NHL club these past few years. I think I wouldn't feel as fed up as I do right now, if the effort level at least appeared to be there 90% of the time.

As I've mentioned before, I'm a full season ticket holder for Abby and man there is a stark difference in the two clubs. The effort I see out of those boys in Abby compared to Vancouver is night and day. Rarely do you see a bad game out of them, or a lack of effort. These guys compete and are pretty much in every game I watch. 

Losses are definitely easier to digest when the team you're cheering for, actually looks like they give a shit. Rather than the apathetic attitude we seem to see out of Vancouver these past few years.

[GrammaInTheTub]

Well.

54 minutes ago, Aldergrove Canuck said:

I don't want to pull rank here, but I've been a fan of this team for 25 years that I can actively remember and I think that I've been pretty patient. I'm also a full season ticket holder for the Abby Canucks, from Day 1. I bleed green and blue, black, yellow and red, whatever colours you like, you get the point. 

I will always cheer for this team, but I'm not gonna sit by and pretend like there aren't some festering issues that don't seem to go away, regardless of the regime in charge and it's getting pretty old at this point.

Pull rank haha! Don’t try that stuff pal it’s a bad idea. Like seriously - who tries to pull rank on an anonymous forum? 

[GrammaInTheTub]

You boys just need to kiss and make up! We all want the same thing - a good start to the season. Thank goodness this is pre-season and we can work out the kinks now. Now kiss each other!