[Signing] Daniel Sprong to the Canucks

[VegasCanuck]

Anyone else in the bargain bin that we like?

[AnthonyG]

3 hours ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Lol What are you talking about? Your entire premise to this post has literally nothing to do with what either of us are talking about. The entire premise of my post was the difference between 2015/16 OEL, and OEL in his 2 years leading up to the trade with the Canucks trade. Then your entire argument some how ignores that and instead blames... Let me check, the coach, for not utilizing a redundant player properly? Sure would have been nice for Benning to have traded for a player that wasn't redundant and could have been used in his position of strength, but no such luck. Such was life with Jim.

 

How did you jump from calling OEL a 20 goal player to blaming his usage? He wasn't an effective player for years leading up to us trading a top 10 pick for him. His ay has slipped far before he ever put on blue.

 

A) you ignored the entire argument made in both my, and your own post, somehow.

2) I wasn't even being serious since... I mean, come-on. How can you take this seriously. We're having a debate about Benning with who I can only assume is Jim's wife or kid

 

 

Funny because OEL’s pointer per 60 is basically unchanged in his years leading up to being acquired.

your tunnel vision looks at total points and then you look at total goals in his down years, I look at his overall points, games played and look at points per 60. 
 

 

 

awkwaarrrrrrrrd.

 

 

Maybe do a little research before you decide to chime in.

 

2nd best PP60 behind this beloved little 2015-16 cherry picked season you used. Right before being acquired. 1.8 vs 1.5. Goes and puts up respectable numbers right after getting healthy and going to FLA and wins a cup. Go fuckin figure the writing was on the walls the entire time. Not to mention his on ice goals for impact per 60 100% consistent. 

[IBatch]

30 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Buddy put the blunt down or the bottle back in the cupboard. 
 

gArLaNd iS tHe tuh-wenty goAl sCorEr derp. Top 4 dman AND a 50pt 20 goal scorer . You complained about the trade, I pointed out the other part of the trade you completely missed.

 

 

So.  OEL was 10-12 5 x 5 EV with Myers, his first season,  extremely expensive, but serviceable yes.  ONE year.   Then he was worth a 3 million dollar guy, instead of a 5.5  one the year before. 

 

 Garland (who i've always liked), finally earned his cap hit last year, and got himself off the trade rumour mill. the playoffs helped a lot with that too.  Lindholm was our second best forward.   Did a lot more then score too, hit and often.

 

     OEL is the big winner.  Oh my is he getting paid well.  Went to Florida, took a huge pay-cut, and played the minutes he played.   Same ones Forbot and Desharnais will play for us next season.    7.25 plus almost 5 ... 12 plus million in cap space that JB could have easily found in the open market with some patience at equal or better value.   And kept Guenther or whomever.    Better for OEL.   How much is he getting this year?  And how much last year.   Fair market value, and this is without an injured foot.   His personal excuse for how things ended for him in Vancouver.    He wasn't a "top 5 defensive 5 x 5 pairing league wide".   That's absolutely ridiculous.    I'm actually trying to be nice, so you can move on.     Look what happened to the team by replacing him with Cole!    Who partnered a lot with Friedman.   And Hronek, how did that work out for QHs (no way he wins a Norris with Schen re-upped).    The amount of wasted overpaid guys was egregious.   Brock underperformed his entire second deal, at best par for a UFA contract,  and finally earned his pay last season.     

 

He also burnt up his cap space, and was left holding the bag twice, once when EP and QHs were up, couldn't get EP to sign 6-8 years with the team, because he didn't have the money, and of course covid.   IF he wasn't so horny on OEL, we'd of kept Tanev i'm sure.   Don't care about Toffoli as much.       The amount of deals that Alvin's made in quantity, and signings, in a flat cap market is rather astonishing in such a short time, and his hit miss ratio so is too.    Fixes his mistakes quickly.   And the best part about him, is he acts, doesn't react.   Did it with the Miller signing,  Horvat trade,   zadarov trafe Lindholm trade and was able to do a lot of that because of the OEL buyout,  Dickinson and Pearson trades to find cap where there was none.   

 

Anyways, you're not going to find much support on this site.   Took some time, but even convinced me that he needed to go.    Would have just wrecked the good he did bring in, and the goal isn't to make the playoffs it's to win the cup.   JR did admit they misjudged the market a bit, and that he could see the vision JB had for the club.    So it's not black and white.    He's no Pat Quin that's for sure.    So had no business trying to do that much on his own.

 

Best part of the OEL debacle is Aqua finally had enough. 

Edited July 22 by IBatch

[MeanSeanBean]

22 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Buddy put the blunt down or the bottle back in the cupboard. 
 

gArLaNd iS tHe tuh-wenty goAl sCorEr derp. Top 4 dman AND a 50pt 20 goal scorer . You complained about the trade, I pointed out the other part of the trade you completely missed.

 

 

Right on cue. A classic Anthony debate.

 

Says a bunch of stupid stuff, starts throwing insults, then makes up a quote or statement (I have not mentioned Garland even once) then while I'm responding to one message another one comes flying in behind it that I won't even justify reading.

 

You must be the last hold out for ol' Jim. I kinda respect it. Through sickness and health, that's what the pastor says.

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Right on cue. A classic Anthony debate.

 

Says a bunch of stupid stuff, starts throwing insults, then makes up a quote or statement (I have not mentioned Garland even once) then while I'm responding to one message another one comes flying in behind it that I won't even justify reading.

 

You must be the last hold out for ol' Jim. I kinda respect it. Through sickness and health, that's what the pastor says.

But the marriage is over.   In hockey, that's like death.   He's never ever coming back to Vancouver.   And sure we won't be hearing from in the media about the Canuck's and his time here, likely for a decade at least.  

[AnthonyG]

5 minutes ago, IBatch said:

 Better for OEL.   How much is he getting this year?  And how much last year. 

OEL was bought out, no one is paying any inflation on any deal with him or ANY previously bought out player. They already have pocketed their money. He is able to take a deal worth less because that would be the equivalent of what his contract value would be at the end of that deal. his 35+ years. 

He's technically paid out til 2029 or whatever it is. They guy has made 97mil to date with that buyout.

 

7 minutes ago, IBatch said:

 He wasn't a "top 5 defensive 5 x 5 pairing league wide".   That's absolutely ridiculous.    I'm actually trying to be nice, so you can move on.     Look what happened to the team by replacing him with Cole!    Who partnered a lot with Friedman. 

Buddy do the research, not only that it was even talked about on television how god damn good OEL and Myers were as a shutdown pair.

 

I did the research I compared it to EVERY OTHER PAIR IN THE LEAGUE its on the old forums, they were legitimately top 5 in the fucking league as a shut down pair, dzone distribution, goals against, reducing high danger attempts and overall scoring attempts etc etc. I did the homework when I heard it on TV I was very fucking curious to know just how effective they truly were.

 

Cole is 100% a great Dman, no discrediting him whatsoever, but OELs first season without injury 4.3DPS. Ian Cole, 3.4DPS. Ian Cole's defensive point shares can suck OELs left nut. OEL dropped significantly in 2022-23 because of his high ankle sprain which his DPS was 0.2. You know what it was last season in Florida? 4.0.

 

13goals against all playoffs for OEL. 9 at 5v5. Regular season 62 total, 40 goals against 5v5 total. 

 

 

Ian Cole spent 123minutes total with Friedman at all strengths.
 

OEL played with a HIGH ANKLE SPRAIN ALL SEASON in 2022-23. Yea his numbers are gunna hurt. But prior to that he had incredible numbers.

 

18 minutes ago, IBatch said:

 Brock underperformed his entire second deal, at best par for a UFA contract,  and finally earned his pay last season.     

Brock had mental distractions and injuries and lets also not forget he lead the team in 2020-21 in points.

He finally came to terms with the loss of his father. 2022-23 was the first year without his dad, all the pain and suffering and mental hardship leading up to his dads final breath was not the end of his battle. It also meant every birthday, thanksgiving, christmas, family thing, fathers day. All of that shit was still ahead for him to have to come to terms with. A constant reminder all year long. He finally came to terms with it after getting through all those firsts without his dad and the monkey was off the back.

 

 

[AnthonyG]

17 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Right on cue. A classic Anthony debate.

 

Says a bunch of stupid stuff, starts throwing insults, then makes up a quote or statement (I have not mentioned Garland even once) then while I'm responding to one message another one comes flying in behind it that I won't even justify reading.

 

You must be the last hold out for ol' Jim. I kinda respect it. Through sickness and health, that's what the pastor says.

you brought up the OEL trade, guess what buddy, Garland was part of it. Which is why I mocked you as to who the hell would want a top 4dman AND a 20 goal 50pt scorer on their team.

 

Classic troll bud, you're going back on block. Forgot how painful it was dealing with ignorance and stupidity.

 

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, Pears said:

As long as they have McDavid and Crysaitl they'll always have the edge on straight fire power. But after those two it's very even. 

 

That's only when the get +++ PPs.

[CanuckMan]

Would be awesome to see some lady throw her thong on the ice after Sprong scored a hattrick. 
Cowan the Brabarian like.

[hockeyfan-observer]

Thought this was a great move and a low risk acquisition - opens up several possibilities on the team - may create a more balanced scoring lineup - the extra forward(s) they now have may also be used in possible trades later in the season (probably for another puck moving D) should that be the direction they want to go through.

 

Overall, been a busy summer for JR/PA -  without spending on 2-3 expensive free agents that would have taken most of the cap - I think he's spread out the funds to create a more balanced roster.  Hopefully the team can work/ gel together for a more successful campaign next year.

[higgyfan]

52 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Anyone else in the bargain bin that we like?

 

Kylington would be nice.

 

https://thehockeynews.com/news/nhl-free-agency-why-ufas-daniel-sprong-and-oliver-kylington-are-worth-signing

[Kevin Biestra]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Canucks are linked to two top five all time fleecings... One good one bad.   Stanajov for Naslund.   Just to be positive.   And if we really want to play the blame game and credit game, i'm sure it's all because of Bud Poile.   He screwed up with BOTH the Luongo AND the OEL buyouts because well "butterfly effects" and all.    

 

I honestly think Luongo for Bertuzzi (not considered a fleecing to such a degree) is about on par with Neely for Pederson.  I think Pederson was actually a better player for the Canucks than Bertuzzi was after the Canucks.

 

What would the others be...  I think Joe Thornton for Marco Sturm is an all time great robbery.  Early in their careers, each of Marcel Dionne and Phil Esposito were traded for players nowhere near their level, but good players.  I think the Bruins actually got Phil Esposito AND Ken Hodge Sr. (almost a Hall of Famer) in that one trade.

 

Dominik Hasek acquired at the start of his career for Stephane Beauregard (decent backup) was pretty big.  Although the Blackhawks then had an embarrassment of riches in net (Belfour at the start of his career etc.) which was the same situation for the Islanders c. 1980 (Smith and Resch and maybe even Melanson on the way) which was why we got King Richard for literally nothing more than swapping places in the 5th round of the next draft.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

4 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I honestly think Luongo for Bertuzzi (not considered a fleecing to such a degree) is about on par with Neely for Pederson.  I think Pederson was actually a better player for the Canucks than Bertuzzi was after the Canucks.

To be fair, what's often overlooked in the Pederson-Neely trade is the 1st round pick that also went with Neely:

 

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl1987e.html

 

Even a guy like Luke Richardson could've been a solid supporting member on the blueline for years.  Course, there's the guy taken at 15 (but we all know Ron Delorme was in Sweden scouting prospects at the time so he might've not noticed Burnaby Joe playing for Swift Current ).  Some "stinkers" in that round to be sure.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

8 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

I think the Bruins actually got Phil Esposito AND Ken Hodge Sr. (almost a Hall of Famer) in that one trade.

Ken Dryden for two nobodies really came to bite the Bruins in the butt though.

[48MPHSlapshot]

Mam, Guenther would look great in a Canuck uniform. Just sayin'

[Kevin Biestra]

1 minute ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Ken Dryden for two nobodies really came to bite the Bruins in the butt though.

 

Yep a huge one that slipped my mind.  Doug Gilmour for Gary Leeman (who was good but went off a cliff immediately after the trade while Gilmour got better and better).  The Flames didn't like that one...nor did they like giving up Brett Hull at the start of his career for Rob Ramage and Rick Wamsley (both good players but also both near the end of the road and also not Brett Hull level).

[MeanSeanBean]

39 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

you brought up the OEL trade, guess what buddy, Garland was part of it. Which is why I mocked you as to who the hell would want a top 4dman AND a 20 goal 50pt scorer on their team.

 

Classic troll bud, you're going back on block. Forgot how painful it was dealing with ignorance and stupidity.

 

It's so funny you accused me of "cherry picking" when you constantly keep going to that stat... Which only happened one time... In 2015.... Which you then accused me of cherry picking when I pointed out. Please tell me the irony of all the insults you tried to throw, while doing things like this, is not lost on you? It's so funny, you have to see it... Right?

[Kevin Biestra]

There don't seem to be that many memorable straight up hockey trades where it's a pretty even swap of premier players (Gartner for Ciccarelli in their primes, Hawerchuk for Housley) or a pretty even swap of an established star for a younger emerging one (Moog for Ranford, Peca for Mogilny, Nieuwendyk for Iginla).

 

 

Edited July 22 by Kevin Biestra

[MeanSeanBean]

12 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapshot said:

Mam, Guenther would look great in a Canuck uniform. Just sayin'

Yeah yeah, Guenther is great and all. But I far prefer the handicap of 4.77 million of dead cap against the books when the team really hits it's stride. That way, when we win the cup, we can have done it on hard mode. Really earn that first cup. And it's all thanks to Jim. Best gm we ever had. Way better then Gillis.

Edited July 22 by MeanSeanBean

[Devron]

1 hour ago, R3aL said:

Well we got a guy who is a right shot scoring winger. Proven 20 goal guy, offensively gifted clearly, who if he could round out his game a little more or be sheltered in a system you could get the best out of him.

 

he’s also on an inconsequential cap hit; is a moveable asset, provides depth and extra competition.

 

I also like that it’s another RHS winger in front of JL temporarily. I really like the idea of him spending a whole year in Abby.

 

low risk; reasonable value floor with some potential for more

he’s also at an age were there is the possibility for some improvements to parts of his game that are Coachable.

 

whats not to like?

 

 

Again, it’s not that I don’t like it. It’s just not that exciting. Hope he has a great year for us 

[Devron]

Also stfu about Benning and OEL, this is the Sprong thread. Frick guys

[dannydog]

I’m just curious with all these moving parts if we will have any consistency for lines to gel.i get it and love the options but a bit nervous of seeing the line blender mixing drinks all year.

[DeNiro]

10 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Yeah yeah, Guenther is great and all. But I far prefer the handicap of 4.77 million of dead cap against the books when the team really hits it's stride. That way, when we win the cup, we can have done it on hard mode. Really earn that first cup. And it's all thanks to Jim. Best gm we ever had. Way better then Gillis.

I’m sure there’s examples of cup winners that didn’t spend close to the cap.

 

Just forces management to be smarter and make sure they have value contracts and flexibility. Something you need either way.

[Devron]

5 minutes ago, dannydog said:

I’m just curious with all these moving parts if we will have any consistency for lines to gel.i get it and love the options but a bit nervous of seeing the line blender mixing drinks all year.

Yeah it will be interesting we have 3 first line forwards and about 9 middle players lol. Good depth but almost like we are still missing a top 6 player. But hey that the cap world and maybe it will be Sprong man who knows 

[PureQuickness]

5 hours ago, MeanSeanBean said:

I mean, I'm young enough that I don't remember the Neely trqde since I was only a kid and prefered the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles at the time. But I know the fallout of it. Neely was a worse trade, but that's also why I said "one of the worst trades" instead of "the worst trade" 

 

I still think the OEL may be one of the worst trades in recent memory, but there's other trades in the past that have just been awful.

Gudbrandson for a 2nd was pretty bad (Benning)

Gillis trade for Ballard for 1st and Grabner was awful.

Forsling trade for Clendenning is pretty bad, given how Clendenning didn't even pan out.

The fact that OEL came with Garland makes it not that bad to be honest. It's not a great trade, of course, but at least you have a serviceable player. The above trades had ZERO positive net return. Gudbranson was pretty marginal as a serviceable player.