Jasper decimated by fire, up to 50% of the town is gone.

[Dumb Nuck]

Surprised there isn’t a thread yet, if so please delete.

 

Sad as we were there just after the playoffs, my daughter loved it, now it’s gone.

 

https://www.cp24.com/news/alberta-premier-says-a-third-perhaps-half-of-all-jasper-buildings-burned-by-fire-1.6976943

 

NOTE: this is a verified video from Jasper from today.

 

 

Edited July 26 by Dumb Nuck

[D.B Cooper]

Im absolutely heart broken.  
I grew up in Golden and spent a ton of time hiking and exploring in Jasper.  
Golden and Parson are in real trouble right now too      
 

I am moving to Alberta at the end of August. We bought a farm north of Red Deer! Just can’t do the coast anymore.  
A couple weeks ago, my wife and I were planning our route with the trailer up to the new house.  
I was so excited to take my girls to my home town (hopefully it’s still there) and to Banff, Lane Louis and Jasper. 
We will drive through if we can, but im probably going to cry.  
 

[RWMc1]

A few years back I wanted to go to Jasper for a vacation but my wife wanted to go to somewhere else. I put my sons in Sylvan Lake hockey camp in Jasper just to have a reason to holiday there. We stayed at Maligne river campground and went up to Miette while we were there. There was a music festival going on and I climbed the hill beside the rink and listened to Ashley MacIsaac perform while my sons were doing their thing. My wife was watching them and my daughter.

 

I used to go there with my family when I was a kid. We always stayed at the Maligne river campground and would also go up to Miette hot-springs. I remember walking around Jasper looking in shops etc. while my parents were having a few beers in the hotel. The weird sheep at Miette and hiking the trails. All the wildlife and beautiful scenery. So many great memories from there. What a loss. Very saddened by this.

[6YPE]

So what happened to proper forestry management?? Why arent they building and maintaining firebreaks around towns in forested areas, in fact why hasnt this always been the practice in these types of areas??? Even the natives did this before the white guys showed up. Its such a simple preventative thing they could be doing. Think about all the money the government throws away at random stuff when they could put some dollars into something that makes sense. 

[stawns]

7 minutes ago, 6YPE said:

So what happened to proper forestry management?? Why arent they building and maintaining firebreaks around towns in forested areas, in fact why hasnt this always been the practice in these types of areas??? Even the natives did this before the white guys showed up. Its such a simple preventative thing they could be doing. Think about all the money the government throws away at random stuff when they could put some dollars into something that makes sense. 

 

Because it costs money and people whine incessantly about taxes as it is.  

[6YPE]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

 

Because it costs money and people whine incessantly about taxes as it is.  

 

Thats a pretty weak excuse, politicians certainly seem to get paid and so do a lot of their pet projects, you'd think if politicians were working for the people they'd do the right thing for the people who vote for them and pay their salaries 

[stawns]

Just now, 6YPE said:

 

Thats a pretty weak excuse, politicians certainly seem to get paid and so do a lot of their pet projects, you'd think if politicians were working for the people they'd do the right thing for the people who vote for them and pay their salaries 

 

Pretty weak excuse?  Do you think Albertans are going to elect a government that raises taxes?  A job that big is going to cost tens of millions of dollars, maybe hundreds.

 

I'm all for it, but doubtful most are

[Barnstorm]

16 minutes ago, 6YPE said:

So what happened to proper forestry management?? Why arent they building and maintaining firebreaks around towns in forested areas, in fact why hasnt this always been the practice in these types of areas??? Even the natives did this before the white guys showed up. Its such a simple preventative thing they could be doing. Think about all the money the government throws away at random stuff when they could put some dollars into something that makes sense. 

 

 

 

[6YPE]

Just now, stawns said:

 

Pretty weak excuse?  Do you think Albertans are going to elect a government that raises taxes?  A job that big is going to cost tens of millions of dollars, maybe hundreds.

 

I'm all for it, but doubtful most are

 

 

Where did I say raise the taxes? Why are you assuming thats the only route? You do know that the Canadian Government gives billions of their taxpayer's dollars away to other programs and countries that do absolutely nothing for Canadian taxpayers right? 

[Attila Umbrus]

13 minutes ago, 6YPE said:

 

Thats a pretty weak excuse, politicians certainly seem to get paid and so do a lot of their pet projects, you'd think if politicians were working for the people they'd do the right thing for the people who vote for them and pay their salaries 

Jasper and Banff are Parks Canada and are federally regulated. So Alberta and BC government can’t do squat other than make recommendations to Ottawa.

 

My wife and I love Jasper so it’s tough to watch.

[Barnstorm]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Pretty weak excuse?  Do you think Albertans are going to elect a government that raises taxes?  A job that big is going to cost tens of millions of dollars, maybe hundreds.

 

I'm all for it, but doubtful most are

National parks are operated, maintained and controlled by federal government legislation.

 

You can’t lift so much as a twig in a national park without federal approval. 
 

National parks in Canada are federally funded. Provincial taxes do not go directly to national parks.

 

In 2020 - 2021 the Llberal federal budget for the entire national park system in Canada including marine parks was a measly $ 1.3 billion. 
 

Tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars is but a but a pittance of what governments give away outside of our borders. 
 

[Dumb Nuck]

From what I read the fire covered 5 kilometres in 1/2 hour and the flames were 100 meters high. There was a lot of dead wood from pine beetles infestations that was known about for many years. I hope this is investigated.

 

 

 

Edited July 26 by Dumb Nuck

[Slegr]

That’s pretty brutal. Jasper was such a beautiful spot. At least it seems like there weren’t many injuries / casualties, unless I missed that.

[stawns]

14 minutes ago, Barnstorm said:

National parks are operated, maintained and controlled by federal government legislation.

 

You can’t lift so much as a twig in a national park without federal approval. 
 

National parks in Canada are federally funded. Provincial taxes do not go directly to national parks.

 

In 2020 - 2021 the Llberal federal budget for the entire national park system in Canada including marine parks was a measly $ 1.3 billion. 
 

Tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars is but a but a pittance of what governments give away outside of our borders. 
 

 

I'm talking forest management, overall.  Not just national parks

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Dumb Nuck said:

From what I read the fire covered 5 kilometres in 1/2 hour and the flames were 100 meters high. There was a lot of dead wood from pine beetles infestations that was known about mor many years. I hope this is investigated.

 

Investigated for what?  Every community in the west has loads of pine beetle kill

[Dumb Nuck]

2 minutes ago, Slegr said:

That’s pretty brutal. Jasper was such a beautiful spot. At least it seems like there weren’t many injuries / casualties, unless I missed that.

So far no casualties, the town was successfully evacuated.

[Dumb Nuck]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

 

Investigated for what?  Every community in the west has loads of pine beetle kill

Why there were warnings many years ago that this would happen and nothing was done, those that decided to do nothing need to justify their decisions.

[Vancan]

12 minutes ago, Barnstorm said:

National parks are operated, maintained and controlled by federal government legislation.

 

You can’t lift so much as a twig in a national park without federal approval. 
 

National parks in Canada are federally funded. Provincial taxes do not go directly to national parks.

 

In 2020 - 2021 the Llberal federal budget for the entire national park system in Canada including marine parks was a measly $ 1.3 billion. 
 

Tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars is but a but a pittance of what governments give away outside of our borders. 
 

The 2016 Fort McMurray fires cost an estimated 9.9 Billion.... Wildfires are not going to improve over the years, if anything this is just a small sample of whats to come. 

Time to rethink and start making this a much, much higher priory. If a piece of Canada is burning, Canada comes together as a whole to stop it, and prevent it. 

[JIAHN]

Well, even though this is a Alberta problem, we in BC are in the same boat. I can not help but think that when we had the 1.6 billion surplus, we did not buy 10 water bombers.

 

Maybe with that and an agreement with Alberta to do the same, we could actually respond to these fires without putting so many people and properties in jeopardy.

 

Canada, with some of the largest forest, does little to protect them.

 

Driving through Manning Park 5 days ago and smelling the sweet smell of evergreens, it sickens me even more to think what Jasper smells like today!

 

 

Edited July 26 by JIAHN

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, Barnstorm said:

 

 

 

OK full stop im about to get banned here

 

Anyone posting ANYTHING regarding this blaze from Keanne Bexte is; IN MY OPINION ONLY a fucking idiot.  Keane Bexte doesn't know the first thing about wildfire training and or mitigation.  Taking anything regarding wildfires or wildfire fighting from him is like asking a blind and deaf individual to drive your kids to school and defending their right to do so

 

He is a fucking idiot period.  He has no idea what he is talking about.

 

Wildfire services are and have been the sole responsibility of the provinces since the early 70s.  To suggest that this is Trudeaus fault is nothing more than partisan fuckery and people trying to score cheap political points off of the decimation of yet another canadian town to a wildfire is fucking sad.

 

There are literally hundreds of people homeless, a national parks crown jewel town is gone.  Golden is on the front line and this fucking idiot is whining on twitter and people who have never shoved a spade in to a fucking ounce of dirt on a fire line think hes smart for it.

 

Get fucked.

 

Bottom line.  PROVINCES are in charge of wildfire management, fighting and forestry practices END FUCKING ARGUMENT.  I have personally fought on a line making the century mark.  I have spent almost 10+ years cataloguing and photographing BC wildfire services on the front lines and post blaze mapping.  

 

Unless anyone can honestly come forward with the same god damned resume, and has opened their doors to anyone now homeless due to this blaze, I will say that shoving Keane bexte who is the firefighting equivalent of an idiot blocking traffic to take a nice photo for the gram forward as some sort of voice of reason is just fucking ridiculous.

 

This has been a tragedy.  This has nothing to do with the liberals.  it has very little to do with the federal government.

 

if you want to actually do this and point fingers, blame the municipality of Jasper, the province of alberta and the individuals who refuse to manage their own property to help reduce and mitigate the severity of and risk of an urban interface fire.

 

Every GD year I deal with this, or someone whining about the martin mars, or some idiot with a drone in the sky as a fire boss 6 team tries to make a pass over a line of containment, or some hero who tries to get behind the lines to get some "good photos" or "check on a friends place" 

 

If this gets me escorted out of here fine.  I don't care.  My entire social media feed has bene lit up all day from halfwits who think this is Trudeaus fault and keep shoving the same 3 tweets from Bexte on their timelines like he has a fucking clue.

Stop it.

 

Just stop.

 

Stop the partisan idiocy, open your doors to people now homeless, give them a place to stay clothing food anything.  Be a decent fucking human being for once in your life instead of trying to make hay out of this.  Our fucking neighbours are suffering and you people are making some sort of smug point that isn't even remotely close to being factual but you don't care because you can't conceive a single moment of a day where the government isn't the fault of your entire life's issues.

 

Seriously, knock it off and give it at least a fucking day before you start lgrabbing your ignorant pitchforks.

Edited July 26 by Warhippy

[Vancan]

2 minutes ago, JIAHN said:

Well, even though this is a Alberta problem, we in BC are in the same boat. I can not help but think that when we had the 1.6 billion surplus, we did not buy 10 water bombers.

 

Maybe with that and an agreement with Alberta to do the same, we could actually respond to these fires without putting so many people and properties in jeopardy.

 

Canada, with some of the largest forest, do little to protect them.

 

Driving through Manning Park 5 days ago and smelling the sweet smell of evergreens, it sickens me even more to think what Jasper smells like today!

I mean it's a Alberta problem this day. That can change in a few hours, to BC's problem, like Kelowna and area last year, Lytton, etc. California does little to protect themselves, 2020 Australia was on fire. I'm not making this an environmental rant, but this is a world problem. Considering what it would take to buy 10 water bombers, maintain, and operate them, it still doesn't even come close to what it costs us in damage. There must be more to it than a few planes.

[Warhippy]

44 minutes ago, Barnstorm said:

National parks are operated, maintained and controlled by federal government legislation.

 

You can’t lift so much as a twig in a national park without federal approval. 
 

National parks in Canada are federally funded. Provincial taxes do not go directly to national parks.

 

In 2020 - 2021 the Llberal federal budget for the entire national park system in Canada including marine parks was a measly $ 1.3 billion. 
 

Tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars is but a but a pittance of what governments give away outside of our borders. 
 

National parks are government funded.  Yup.  But the provinces maintain them.  Feds are only in charge of maintenance stewardship and infrastructure as the federal government does not now nor have they ever maintained any form of wildfire services.  the closest they ever came was post WW2 when they transferred control of some former ocean scout planes and heavy bombers for conversion to e used as fire bombing units.

 

These units were sold in the 60s to private firms and since the 70s every province has a team like Coulson, Conair, Biggcat or the like and private pilot teams that operate helicopters that fight fires.  

 

Again, unless you know what you're talking about.  Suggesting this is the federal governments fault is childish.

 

The last time the feds had any effect on a wildfire was when Harper and Clarke in BC pulled an entire brigade of fighters off of a line outside of Westbank to congratulate them and for the photo op.  Lemme tell ya, it was absolutely NOT a positive thing 

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, Vancan said:

I mean it's a Alberta problem this day. That can change in a few hours, to BC's problem, like Kelowna and area last year, Lytton, etc. California does little to protect themselves, 2020 Australia was on fire. I'm not making this an environmental rant, but this is a world problem. Considering what it would take to buy 10 water bombers, maintain, and operate them, it still doesn't even come close to what it costs us in damage. There must be more to it than a few planes.

It will take an entire reset to the approach we take to prevent and fight these blazes.  In BC there was decades of pesticides/herbicides spread over the forest which allowed for the endless die off and accumulation of fuel, it also killed natural pests that break down this fuel.

 

We have hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of beetle killed areas and the same volume of poorly logged sites that were never cleaned up properly.  

 

We have municipalities building in to the forests without proper mitigation plans let alone proper planning for these events.  The explosion of these subdivisions only exacerbates this.

 

We have governments cutting back on proscribed burns and cutting hundreds of individuals from fire teams and forestry management teams.  Our forestry management practices at the provincial level (which is the jurisdiction in charge) are decades old and need to be revised from the ground up.

 

A few planes won't help anything, because eventually these forests WILL burn.  It's the natural order of things.

 

Until we revise our entire way of approaching and managing things this will keep happening but that's not how we as a species operate.

[Vancan]

3 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

It will take an entire reset to the approach we take to prevent and fight these blazes.  In BC there was decades of pesticides/herbicides spread over the forest which allowed for the endless die off and accumulation of fuel, it also killed natural pests that break down this fuel.

 

We have hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of beetle killed areas and the same volume of poorly logged sites that were never cleaned up properly.  

 

We have municipalities building in to the forests without proper mitigation plans let alone proper planning for these events.  The explosion of these subdivisions only exacerbates this.

 

We have governments cutting back on proscribed burns and cutting hundreds of individuals from fire teams and forestry management teams.  Our forestry management practices at the provincial level (which is the jurisdiction in charge) are decades old and need to be revised from the ground up.

 

A few planes won't help anything, because eventually these forests WILL burn.  It's the natural order of things.

 

Until we revise our entire way of approaching and managing things this will keep happening but that's not how we as a species operate.

Well put thanks.

Unfortunately though, we probably missed the mark to revise how we think and approach.

The planet has been doing this for billions of years, and wont stop just to appease our little blimp in time here. 

[Barnstorm]

Federal government is solely responsible for the protection of national parks. Nothing happens in these parks without their approval. They hire and or contract outside sources to do what they say. The buck

stops at the federal level.