Jasper decimated by fire, up to 50% of the town is gone.

[Spur1]

Might as well get used to it. Climate change is here like it or not. 

[Vancan]

4 minutes ago, Spur1 said:

Might as well get used to it. Climate change is here like it or not. 

Land and water have never been hotter in our recorded history. Were fucked. Cant even say we had a good run compared to other spices that were here prior and a shit ton longer.

[Warhippy]

For reference since I KNOW I am going to be addressed in short order about this. 

 

The federal governments mandate in national parks includes forestry and wildlife monitoring, stewardship and infrastructure.  They are in charge of any potential development or reparations done due to development.

 

There is a shared database and monitoring system between federal and provincial offices regarding wildfires or the CWFIS or CFFDRS which work to monitor and coordinate levels of response and risk via the CIFFC which is a non profit jointly managed by the provinces and feds.  Quick question, name the three provinces that yelled at the feds for putting more money in to it after last year and who actually reduced contributions.  Just guess.

 

The feds have a fire risk management system and modelling program used by provinces and provincial wildfire teams called the CanFIRE and PFAS systems.  

 

The feds do not have a firefighting team.  In national parks firefighting is STILL under the provincial management of provincial wildfire teams.  Air and ground teams like Coulson, Bigcat, Conair etc are private businesses which are contracted by the provincial and in the event of emergencies, federal governments every single summer.  They also take contracts in the US, Portugal, Aus and south america.

 

data sets between feds provinces and municipalities are set down and agreed upon almost every autumn/winter after serious examination.  These are then enacted late winter and early to mid spring in the form of controlled burns and falls.  Many of which no longer exist in provinces due to lobbying by citizens who don't like the smoke etc.

 

The last TRUE major event in Jasper national was over 100 years ago.  The feds have been making major inroads in attempting to mitigate areas but have outright avoided lobbying by major forestry companies that wanted to wholesale log the areas under the guise of "forestry management" but the issue is over 100 years of deadfall have accumulated and the ONLY way to remove it...

 

Is to burn it.

 

You can not mitigate an entire national park.  it is not possible.  Like even a little.  Suggesting otherwise is insanity.

 

https://www.removepaywall.com/article/current

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/jasper-national-park-research-fire-1.4612320

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/4335116/jasper-national-park-mountain-pine-beetle-epidemic-plan/

 

https://blogs.egu.eu/geolog/2018/07/23/imaggeo-on-mondays-wildfires-leave-their-mark-on-jasper-national-park/

[Warhippy]

17 minutes ago, Barnstorm said:

Federal government is solely responsible for the protection of national parks. Nothing happens in these parks without their approval. They hire and or contract outside sources to do what they say. The buck

stops at the federal level. 
 

 

No.  They are not.

 

Period.

 

A screen shot is not the whole story.  At all.  You're wrong.

 

Stop it.

[Ghostsof1915]

2 hours ago, 6YPE said:

So what happened to proper forestry management?? Why arent they building and maintaining firebreaks around towns in forested areas, in fact why hasnt this always been the practice in these types of areas??? Even the natives did this before the white guys showed up. Its such a simple preventative thing they could be doing. Think about all the money the government throws away at random stuff when they could put some dollars into something that makes sense. 

Greed.

[Ghostsof1915]

21 minutes ago, Spur1 said:

Might as well get used to it. Climate change is here like it or not. 

Well just nuke the planet, and it will stop climate change, by getting rid of the humans.

 

[Barnstorm]

In 2017 Catherine Mckenna, the Liberal Minister of Environment and Climate Change acknowledged she was aware of the tinder box in Jasper and assured all Canadians the Liberal Government was “absolutely committed and working hard “ to preserve Canada’s park and specifically Jasper.

Does anyone know exactly what those responsible for the park accomplished to preserve it over the last 7 years? Canadians , especially those living, working in  and enjoying Jasper are asking. 

 

Obviously this is tragedy, no one needs to be reminded of that. 
 

Accountability would go a long way in preventing more of these disasters. 

[Barnstorm]

7 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

No.  They are not.

 

Period.

 

A screen shot is not the whole story.  At all.  You're wrong.

 

Stop it.

 

Who are you to tell me what to do?

[Spur1]

2 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Well just nuke the planet, and it will stop climate change, by getting rid of the humans.

 

How about we just stop burning fossil fuels. Please don’t try to tell me it can’t be done. 

[Ghostsof1915]

1 minute ago, Spur1 said:

How about we just stop burning fossil fuels. Please don’t try to tell me it can’t be done. 

Judging by your climate change is here to stay comment, I'm pleasantly surprised by the response.

[Warhippy]

8 minutes ago, Barnstorm said:

 

Who are you to tell me what to do?

I am a guy with over a decade of experience with bc wildfire services who knows who is in charge of what regarding wildfires in provinces and nationally.

 

You're a guy with a political hard on looking to assign blame instead of just being a decent human being about things.

 

I posted exactly who is in charge of what if you'd like to address it.

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

The folks who couldn't gaf about climate change are suddenly looking for someone to scapegoat. Why am I not surprised in the least. 

[Barnstorm]

13 minutes ago, Spur1 said:

How about we just stop burning fossil fuels. Please don’t try to tell me it can’t be done. 

If it were possible that would go a long way to reducing GHG. Unfortunately that will take decades to accomplish. The entire world  would grind to a halt and there would be massive societal breakdown. 
 

We have a better chance of reducing these  world wide fires  that produce unimaginable amounts of GHG than we do shutting off the petrol in the present time. 

[Vancan]

15 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I am a guy with over a decade of experience with bc wildfire services who knows who is in charge of what regarding wildfires in provinces and nationally.

 

You're a guy with a political hard on looking to assign blame instead of just being a decent human being about things.

 

I posted exactly who is in charge of what if you'd like to address it.

Not sure if I am right, nor if I should get involved in this. I an not a forest fire fighter, but am city firefighter. Should it not be a shared responsibility with Parks Canada and the Municipality of Jasper? Then Alberta without much say other than any and all support they ask for. 

[Spur1]

15 minutes ago, Barnstorm said:

If it were possible that would go a long way to reducing GHG. Unfortunately that will take decades to accomplish. The entire world  would grind to a halt and there would be massive societal breakdown. 
 

We have a better chance of reducing these  world wide fires  that produce unimaginable amounts of GHG than we do shutting off the petrol in the present time. 

Really…how do you propose stopping dumb people and lighting from starting fires. Not to mention those Jewish space lasers. Do you propose raking the forest?  We can stop producing  and burning fossil fuels a lot easier and faster. 

[Warhippy]

16 minutes ago, Barnstorm said:

In 2017 Catherine Mckenna, the Liberal Minister of Environment and Climate Change acknowledged she was aware of the tinder box in Jasper and assured all Canadians the Liberal Government was “absolutely committed and working hard “ to preserve Canada’s park and specifically Jasper.

Does anyone know exactly what those responsible for the park accomplished to preserve it over the last 7 years? Canadians , especially those living, working in  and enjoying Jasper are asking. 

 

Obviously this is tragedy, no one needs to be reminded of that. 
 

Accountability would go a long way in preventing more of these disasters. 

Sure

 

In 2024 alone

 

Prescribed burns in Southesk, Talbot Lake, Douglas and HIllside as well as BCM totalling 5300 hectares burnt, as well as a municipal burn of 5-10 hectares. Since 2017 reduction projects and wildifre risk reduction have managed over 47,000 hectares largest areas included the

 

Bench FMU 3 and 4 corridors

Aspen Gardens/Sawridge

Doug fir Slopes west

Trail 8A water treatment, and Trail 8 B and C trail system

FMU 2 corridor

Stone Mountain 

93a evac south 93a evac north taken by the entirety of the jasper township to get out of jasper days before the fire tore through it

whistlers campground

Wapiti

Maintenance compounds in FID 11, 12 and 15

Thorton village

JPL, JPL plateaus

Lac Beauvert

Pat Lake FMU/4

Annette Day area and annette lake

Chetamon cleanup

Keith lakes

Signal Mountain

Maligne lk rd to Skyline ridge trail

 

And more all taken along the Montane Cordillera sub alpine and alpine forestry areas in to the taiga and boreal plains forestry areas of Albertas jasper national.  This is without mentioning that much of this work is ONLY viable during the late winter through early spring and as so much of it takes place in and around the jasper township and municipal areas, it also needs in many instances approval from the jasper township, which begs the question as to why the jasper township voted against creating larger firebreaks in 2020, 2021 and again in 2022 due to losing the "aesthetic appeal" of the crown jewel of Albertas parks areas.

 

Here in fact is the CIFFC yearly meeting prior to the fire season at the start of prescribed burn season and their outlook and projection on the 2024 fire season.  These are the experts.  Pay attention to what they have to say about the Cordillera regime areas of the rocky mountains and their fears of the boreal cordillera areas of the Yukon and northern provinces.

 

 

Again man, this is absolutely not the time to be shoving your rage boner around looking to make political points using Keane bexte as some sort of metric for credibility just to make some sort of political or partisan talking point.  If you don't understand the situation and all you want to do is whinge and point a finger, you're absolutely not part of the solution here.

 

 

 

[Barnstorm]

26 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I am a guy with over a decade of experience with bc wildfire services who knows who is in charge of what regarding wildfires in provinces and nationally.

 

You're a guy with a political hard on looking to assign blame instead of just being a decent human being about things.

 

I posted exactly who is in charge of what if you'd like to address it.

Accountability hurts?

 

Stamping your feet and pounding your fists. 
 

Now on top of telling me what to do you’re assuming my motivation and calling me names. Opinions and thoughts will not always be in agreement with you. Try to express yourself without making it personal. 

 

Grow up and be better champ. 

[King Heffy]

4 minutes ago, Barnstorm said:

Accountability hurts?

 

Stamping your feet and pounding your fists. 
 

Now on top of telling me what to do you’re assuming my motivation and calling me names. Opinions and thoughts will not always be in agreement with you. Try to express yourself without making it personal. 

 

Grow up and be better champ. 

Let's start with holding whoever taught you which level of government is responsible for what accountable, because they sure as hell failed.

[Warhippy]

7 minutes ago, Vancan said:

Not sure if I am right, nor if I should get involved in this. I an not a forest fire fighter, but am city firefighter. Should it not be a shared responsibility with Parks Canada and the Municipality of Jasper? Then Alberta without much say other than any and all support they ask for. 

Actually quite right.  One of the biggest issues noted in BC prior to 2003 was the lack of communication between the national services, provincial services and municipal fire squads.  That is why every year the CIFFC gets involved with every potential agency involved, especially of places with significant urban interface areas or explosive growth in to interface environments without the infrastructure to combat blazes.

 

These meetings are absolutely critical to maintain the lines of communication between jurisdictions.  In interface areas, it is one of the only situations in which an agency like BCWFS would be shouldering the load with municipal firefighters.  But due to infrastructure almost always having the ground crews bending the knee to municipal fire command due to the knowledge of existing infrastructure and roadways.

 

The chain of command is always the same.  Provincial wildfire services making the call in rural areas.  NAVCAN and provincial services in charge of anything in the sky.  Municipal services if necessary playing a back up roll.  Once interface environments are met, wildfire services and municipal services fall under again, NAVCAN for flights and wildfire services fall under the command of or at the very least; expertise of municipal teams due to the knowledge of infrastructure and city routes as well as better equipment for the environment at hand.

 

As well, you are not just as you say a "city firefighter" you are a fire fighter and an emergency first responder and as such should never belittle or devalue your station.  Individuals like yourself are why so many individuals outside of fire incidences are alive today.  So thank you.

[Barnstorm]

3 minutes ago, Spur1 said:

Really…how do you propose stopping dumb people and lighting from starting fires. Not to mention those Jewish space lasers. Do you propose raking the forest?  We can stop producing  and burning fossil fuels a lot easier and faster. 

I don’t think we have the infrastructure in place to go electric full bore … yet. The entire world currently functions through carbon based fuels although progress in weening off is increasing. 
 

Recent statistics in BC indicate fires caused by people are declining so that may be a step in the right direction. The whole key to reducing fires is to stop them when they’re small.  

 Perhaps heavy investment in means of detection, an increase in aerial equipment and night ops would help in getting them before they develop into monsters. 
 

I don’t profess to have the answers , just my own opinions and thoughts. 
 

 

[Barnstorm]

4 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Let's start with holding whoever taught you which level of government is responsible for what accountable, because they sure as hell failed.

Fill your boots.

[Spur1]

1 minute ago, Barnstorm said:

I don’t think we have the infrastructure in place to go electric full bore … yet. The entire world currently functions through carbon based fuels although progress in weening off is increasing. 
 

Recent statistics in BC indicate fires caused by people are declining so that may be a step in the right direction. The whole key to reducing fires is to stop them when they’re small.  

 Perhaps heavy investment in means of detection, an increase in aerial equipment and night ops would help in getting them before they develop into monsters. 
 

I don’t profess to have the answers , just my own opinions and thoughts. 
 

 

I just don’t think that you realize the scale of how much forest is out there. 

[Warhippy]

6 minutes ago, Barnstorm said:

Accountability hurts?

 

Stamping your feet and pounding your fists. 
 

Now on top of telling me what to do you’re assuming my motivation and calling me names. Opinions and thoughts will not always be in agreement with you. Try to express yourself without making it personal. 

 

Grow up and be better champ. 

I've done just that and all you've done is swing a rage boner around pointing the blame.  I've addressed your finger pointing and have more than addressed who is in charge of what as well as what efforts have been and continue to be taken in the Jasper national park areas.  

 

I am also not assuming your motivation as it is blatantly obvious what your motivation is here and in the Canadian politics thread.  Your suggestion of accountability is far fetched as it is obvious you don't care so long as you can blame the federal government.  Stamping my feet and pounding my fists?  That is not happening on my end, what you are seeing is disgust that someone would turn a tragedy in to a partisan talking point.

 

It sickens me.

 

If you want to tell me to grow up and be better, you need at least a season on a line swinging a spade before you can even pretend I'll have enough respect for your opinion to worry about it.  Something tells me though you'll be int he same lne as Keane Bexte for fighting any level of wildfire. Maybe just stick to the tweeting and finger pointing.

[Warhippy]

13 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Sure

 

In 2024 alone

 

Prescribed burns in Southesk, Talbot Lake, Douglas and HIllside as well as BCM totalling 5300 hectares burnt, as well as a municipal burn of 5-10 hectares. Since 2017 reduction projects and wildifre risk reduction have managed over 47,000 hectares largest areas included the

 

Bench FMU 3 and 4 corridors

Aspen Gardens/Sawridge

Doug fir Slopes west

Trail 8A water treatment, and Trail 8 B and C trail system

FMU 2 corridor

Stone Mountain 

93a evac south 93a evac north taken by the entirety of the jasper township to get out of jasper days before the fire tore through it

whistlers campground

Wapiti

Maintenance compounds in FID 11, 12 and 15

Thorton village

JPL, JPL plateaus

Lac Beauvert

Pat Lake FMU/4

Annette Day area and annette lake

Chetamon cleanup

Keith lakes

Signal Mountain

Maligne lk rd to Skyline ridge trail

 

And more all taken along the Montane Cordillera sub alpine and alpine forestry areas in to the taiga and boreal plains forestry areas of Albertas jasper national.  This is without mentioning that much of this work is ONLY viable during the late winter through early spring and as so much of it takes place in and around the jasper township and municipal areas, it also needs in many instances approval from the jasper township, which begs the question as to why the jasper township voted against creating larger firebreaks in 2020, 2021 and again in 2022 due to losing the "aesthetic appeal" of the crown jewel of Albertas parks areas.

 

Here in fact is the CIFFC yearly meeting prior to the fire season at the start of prescribed burn season and their outlook and projection on the 2024 fire season.  These are the experts.  Pay attention to what they have to say about the Cordillera regime areas of the rocky mountains and their fears of the boreal cordillera areas of the Yukon and northern provinces.

 

 

Again man, this is absolutely not the time to be shoving your rage boner around looking to make political points using Keane bexte as some sort of metric for credibility just to make some sort of political or partisan talking point.  If you don't understand the situation and all you want to do is whinge and point a finger, you're absolutely not part of the solution here.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

For reference since I KNOW I am going to be addressed in short order about this. 

 

The federal governments mandate in national parks includes forestry and wildlife monitoring, stewardship and infrastructure.  They are in charge of any potential development or reparations done due to development.

 

There is a shared database and monitoring system between federal and provincial offices regarding wildfires or the CWFIS or CFFDRS which work to monitor and coordinate levels of response and risk via the CIFFC which is a non profit jointly managed by the provinces and feds.  Quick question, name the three provinces that yelled at the feds for putting more money in to it after last year and who actually reduced contributions.  Just guess.

 

The feds have a fire risk management system and modelling program used by provinces and provincial wildfire teams called the CanFIRE and PFAS systems.  

 

The feds do not have a firefighting team.  In national parks firefighting is STILL under the provincial management of provincial wildfire teams.  Air and ground teams like Coulson, Bigcat, Conair etc are private businesses which are contracted by the provincial and in the event of emergencies, federal governments every single summer.  They also take contracts in the US, Portugal, Aus and south america.

 

data sets between feds provinces and municipalities are set down and agreed upon almost every autumn/winter after serious examination.  These are then enacted late winter and early to mid spring in the form of controlled burns and falls.  Many of which no longer exist in provinces due to lobbying by citizens who don't like the smoke etc.

 

The last TRUE major event in Jasper national was over 100 years ago.  The feds have been making major inroads in attempting to mitigate areas but have outright avoided lobbying by major forestry companies that wanted to wholesale log the areas under the guise of "forestry management" but the issue is over 100 years of deadfall have accumulated and the ONLY way to remove it...

 

Is to burn it.

 

You can not mitigate an entire national park.  it is not possible.  Like even a little.  Suggesting otherwise is insanity.

 

https://www.removepaywall.com/article/current

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/jasper-national-park-research-fire-1.4612320

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/4335116/jasper-national-park-mountain-pine-beetle-epidemic-plan/

 

https://blogs.egu.eu/geolog/2018/07/23/imaggeo-on-mondays-wildfires-leave-their-mark-on-jasper-national-park/

 

2 minutes ago, Barnstorm said:

Fill your boots.

Consider my boots filled

[Barnstorm]

2 minutes ago, Spur1 said:

I just don’t think that you realize the scale of how much forest is out there. 

This seems like a strange reply to my post. What exactly about my post suggests I’m unaware of the size of forested land?

 

Seems it would be like me suggesting I’m not sure you understand how much  the would relies on carbon based fuel. I’m not suggesting it won’t change, going to take time.