Jasper decimated by fire, up to 50% of the town is gone.

[Warhippy]

14 minutes ago, bolt said:

The environmentalists didn't want to backburn and protect the community.  When you have a bunch of dead forest caused by the pine beetle you have to act. 

 

The problem with the left wing movement is their soley blaming climate change. 

The environmentalists are the ones screaming for prescribed burning and proper interface mitigation strategies.

 

You and Barn should maybe stay in your lanes instead of making wild claims you're not experienced enough to make

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

2 hours ago, Heretic said:

Maybe they can use money from all the carbon tax they collect - after all, a burning forest and/or a town contributes to green house gases.  

I've got an idea. I know it sounds crazy but hear me out. Make the oil companies pay it out of their record fucking profits. 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

40 minutes ago, DSVII said:

 

Let's continue that accountability journey.

 

2019  Budget cuts claim Alberta's elite wildfire fighting unit -  

 

The UCP eliminated Alberta’s elite wildfire-fighting crew of 63 firefighters stationed across the province. The program had been in service for over 40 years. The UCP made the cuts and ignored warnings from experienced firefighters. Former members of the team say they believe they could have made a difference this year if the program had not been eliminated by the UCP.

 

Shortly after being elected to office in 2019, the UCP government shut down 26 active fire towers across Alberta, more than one-fifth of detection coverage in the province. Lookouts are responsible for a 40-kilometre radius of forest. Early detection and investigation of wildfires enables firefighters to put suppression plans in place before wildfires escalate into large-scale catastrophes.

 

2020 - Province cuts funding for firefighter training: Alberta Fire Chiefs Association 

AFCA executive director Fred Tyrrell said the cuts will have consequences down the road.

 

“A lot of our small rural volunteer fire departments are in municipalities that don’t have big pockets and the potential consequences are simple,” Tyrrell said.

 

“Those volunteers that have stepped up to provide what has to be seen as a specialized service that requires a lot of volunteer hours, they may no longer be able to get that training, because their own municipality may not be able to afford the training programs that this grant up until now has provided.”

 

2023 - ‘Alberta’s UCP Government Has Cut Tens of Millions of Dollars From Wildfire Preparedness Programs

In 2018-2019, according to government estimates, Alberta’s “wildfire management,” budget was $130 million. In the 2019-2020 budget, the UCP itself boasted to the Edmonton Journal, Alberta’s wildfire management budget was $117.6 million.

 

And by 2022-2023, the province’s budget estimates reduced its “wildfire management” to $100.5 million. It is projected to fall again to $100.4 million in 2023-2024.

All told, that’s a $30 million cut, against rising inflation.

 

Parkland Institute Executive Director Ricardo Acuna says budget cuts are hampering the province’s emergency resources.

 

“Those are the kinds of cuts that have a direct impact on the province’s ability to detect and effectively fight wildfires,” Acuna told PressProgress.

 

“They eliminated the province’s elite aerial attack wildfire fighting program – which stationed 63 firefighters in key areas who were trained and prepared to rappel from helicopters into wildfires to facilitate more efficient firefighting. Bases included Edson, Fox Creek, and Lac La Biche – areas dealing with out-of-control fires this year. In that same budget, the government closed 15 wildfire lookouts meant to provide early detection of fires.”

 

2024 - Would you fight Alberta's wildfires for $22/hour? And no benefits?

 

It's "hard for Alberta to bring people back" when workers could earn more working for B.C. or Parks Canada, AUPE vice-president James Gault told CBC News. 

Seasonal firefighters in Alberta start at $22.44/hour. The most a seasonal employee could earn in a leadership position, with years of experience, is $30.17/hour. In B.C., pay starts at $27.58/hour. Parks Canada fire crew members started at $29.94/hour in 2023; in 2024, starting wages are $30.52/hour. 

 

According to a 2019 internal retention survey of Alberta's seasonal wildland firefighters obtained by CBC News, a third of respondents cited a lack of benefits as the "greatest challenge wildfire management faces when hoping to increase retention rates." 

'Conditional' offers

Unlike some other wildfire agencies, such as Parks Canada and those in Northwest Territories, B.C., Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Ontario, seasonal firefighters in Alberta receive no health benefits coverage. In April, Ontario said it would provide wildland firefighters with additional health coverage to include some types of cancers, heart injuries and PTSD — to bring benefits in line with what municipal firefighters are entitled to in that province. 

 

AUPE says it wants to see a similar extension to its wildland firefighters. "I would think that's almost secondary because we don't get any benefits," said Wigmore, who took a pay cut, and gave up the benefits, pension and job security she had as a permanent, year-round employee in Alberta for a job leading a unit on the front lines. 

 

 

But I wanted to fuck Trudeau. 

[Warhippy]

11 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

But I wanted to fuck Trudeau. 

Same with Bolt and every ther Conservative right now.

 

It's actually weird.  if Trudeau charged every single one of them that wanted to fuck him $1000 he'd probably have enough to pay down a sizeable amount of the national debt

[Heretic]

31 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

I've got an idea. I know it sounds crazy but hear me out. Make the oil companies pay it out of their record fucking profits. 

Why just Oil companies?  Banks make a billion dollars profit a quarter.  Should be any company with massive profits.  

Edited July 26 by Heretic

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

13 minutes ago, Heretic said:

Why just Oil companies?  Banks make a billion dollars profit a quarter.  Should be any company with massive profits.  

 

 Am I seeing correctly?  Heretic pushing a socialist agenda?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LB28]

Edit

Edited July 26 by LB28

[LB28]

1 hour ago, DSVII said:

 

Let's continue that accountability journey.

 

2019  Budget cuts claim Alberta's elite wildfire fighting unit -  

 

The UCP eliminated Alberta’s elite wildfire-fighting crew of 63 firefighters stationed across the province. The program had been in service for over 40 years. The UCP made the cuts and ignored warnings from experienced firefighters. Former members of the team say they believe they could have made a difference this year if the program had not been eliminated by the UCP.

 

Shortly after being elected to office in 2019, the UCP government shut down 26 active fire towers across Alberta, more than one-fifth of detection coverage in the province. Lookouts are responsible for a 40-kilometre radius of forest. Early detection and investigation of wildfires enables firefighters to put suppression plans in place before wildfires escalate into large-scale catastrophes.

 

2020 - Province cuts funding for firefighter training: Alberta Fire Chiefs Association 

AFCA executive director Fred Tyrrell said the cuts will have consequences down the road.

 

“A lot of our small rural volunteer fire departments are in municipalities that don’t have big pockets and the potential consequences are simple,” Tyrrell said.

 

“Those volunteers that have stepped up to provide what has to be seen as a specialized service that requires a lot of volunteer hours, they may no longer be able to get that training, because their own municipality may not be able to afford the training programs that this grant up until now has provided.”

 

2023 - ‘Alberta’s UCP Government Has Cut Tens of Millions of Dollars From Wildfire Preparedness Programs

In 2018-2019, according to government estimates, Alberta’s “wildfire management,” budget was $130 million. In the 2019-2020 budget, the UCP itself boasted to the Edmonton Journal, Alberta’s wildfire management budget was $117.6 million.

 

And by 2022-2023, the province’s budget estimates reduced its “wildfire management” to $100.5 million. It is projected to fall again to $100.4 million in 2023-2024.

All told, that’s a $30 million cut, against rising inflation.

 

Parkland Institute Executive Director Ricardo Acuna says budget cuts are hampering the province’s emergency resources.

 

“Those are the kinds of cuts that have a direct impact on the province’s ability to detect and effectively fight wildfires,” Acuna told PressProgress.

 

“They eliminated the province’s elite aerial attack wildfire fighting program – which stationed 63 firefighters in key areas who were trained and prepared to rappel from helicopters into wildfires to facilitate more efficient firefighting. Bases included Edson, Fox Creek, and Lac La Biche – areas dealing with out-of-control fires this year. In that same budget, the government closed 15 wildfire lookouts meant to provide early detection of fires.”

 

2024 - Would you fight Alberta's wildfires for $22/hour? And no benefits?

 

It's "hard for Alberta to bring people back" when workers could earn more working for B.C. or Parks Canada, AUPE vice-president James Gault told CBC News. 

Seasonal firefighters in Alberta start at $22.44/hour. The most a seasonal employee could earn in a leadership position, with years of experience, is $30.17/hour. In B.C., pay starts at $27.58/hour. Parks Canada fire crew members started at $29.94/hour in 2023; in 2024, starting wages are $30.52/hour. 

 

According to a 2019 internal retention survey of Alberta's seasonal wildland firefighters obtained by CBC News, a third of respondents cited a lack of benefits as the "greatest challenge wildfire management faces when hoping to increase retention rates." 

'Conditional' offers

Unlike some other wildfire agencies, such as Parks Canada and those in Northwest Territories, B.C., Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Ontario, seasonal firefighters in Alberta receive no health benefits coverage. In April, Ontario said it would provide wildland firefighters with additional health coverage to include some types of cancers, heart injuries and PTSD — to bring benefits in line with what municipal firefighters are entitled to in that province. 

 

AUPE says it wants to see a similar extension to its wildland firefighters. "I would think that's almost secondary because we don't get any benefits," said Wigmore, who took a pay cut, and gave up the benefits, pension and job security she had as a permanent, year-round employee in Alberta for a job leading a unit on the front lines. 

 

 

Wow, that is insane that the Alberta government would cut funding.

 

What an embarassment.

[Elias Pettersson]

53 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Same with Bolt and every ther Conservative right now.

 

It's actually weird.  if Trudeau charged every single one of them that wanted to fuck him $1000 he'd probably have enough to pay down a sizeable amount of the national debt

 

Does Trudeau pay you to defend him this hard?

[canuck73_3]

15 hours ago, 6YPE said:

 

 

Where did I say raise the taxes? Why are you assuming thats the only route? You do know that the Canadian Government gives billions of their taxpayer's dollars away to other programs and countries that do absolutely nothing for Canadian taxpayers right? 

You realize the "Money" sent to Ukraine is not actually money but old military equipment right? And that "money" is already allocated for and has F all to do with Forestry and fire aid right? 

[Bure_Pavel]

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jamie-sarkonak-ottawa-let-wildfire-fuel-pile-up-in-jasper-for-decades

 

"The fire started in Jasper National Park, which is the responsibility of the federal government. It’s Ottawa that’s in charge of the park’s forest management and, crucially, fire mitigation."

 

Looks like they dropped the ball again. Wonder where all those heavy increased climate control taxes are going. 

[Satchmo]

5 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jamie-sarkonak-ottawa-let-wildfire-fuel-pile-up-in-jasper-for-decades

 

"The fire started in Jasper National Park, which is the responsibility of the federal government. It’s Ottawa that’s in charge of the park’s forest management and, crucially, fire mitigation."

 

Looks like they dropped the ball again. Wonder where all those heavy increased climate control taxes are going. 

Sarkonak's opinion.  Your opinion.  There is some truth to the statement that NO PLACE in Canada is truly prepared for fire in the 21st century but articles like these are just taking advantage of a chance to fan flames and burn the libs.   Jasper's loss is your gain apparently.

[Warhippy]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Does Trudeau pay you to defend him this hard?

Does pierre pay you to create false narratives and push his agenda this hard?

 

Why do you always do this?  Like the insane jumps to the extremes are honestly childish man.

 

There is an entire population of this nation that cry about everything and have made the F trudeau brand their entire identity.  They literally have nothing else.  Like the lets go brandon crowd in the US.  

 

Right now on social media this section of the populace is blaming the current PM for a natural disaster occurring in which numerous government entities failed.  You actually have individuals making opinion columns spreading disinformation about the federal governments ability and jurisdicitional rights within provincial boundaries because they have no idea how fire management works or who is in charge of it.

 

Hell I am looking at one right now from the national post in which the author claims that just because the feds are in charge of national parks trudeau failed.  even though it is parks canada and the entirety of the parks system has less than 700 total members for fire relief stewardship and mitigation for a national park over a million hecatres large in some of the most challenging terrain against the face of nimby opposition and more.  That has been an ongoing issue for literal decades.

 

So in essence what I am hearing you say is you don't care about our democracy or provincial rights (see what I just did there, slipped in a little petey type response) and you don't care about the truth

Edited July 26 by Warhippy

[Warhippy]

17 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jamie-sarkonak-ottawa-let-wildfire-fuel-pile-up-in-jasper-for-decades

 

"The fire started in Jasper National Park, which is the responsibility of the federal government. It’s Ottawa that’s in charge of the park’s forest management and, crucially, fire mitigation."

 

Looks like they dropped the ball again. Wonder where all those heavy increased climate control taxes are going. 

See below.

 

15 hours ago, Warhippy said:

The federal governments mandate in national parks includes forestry and wildlife monitoring, stewardship and infrastructure.  They are in charge of any potential development or reparations done due to development.

 

There is a shared database and monitoring system between federal and provincial offices regarding wildfires or the CWFIS or CFFDRS which work to monitor and coordinate levels of response and risk via the CIFFC which is a non profit jointly managed by the provinces and feds.  Quick question, name the three provinces that yelled at the feds for putting more money in to it after last year and who actually reduced contributions.  Just guess.

 

The feds have a fire risk management system and modelling program used by provinces and provincial wildfire teams called the CanFIRE and PFAS systems.  

 

The feds do not have a firefighting team.  In national parks firefighting is STILL under the provincial management of provincial wildfire teams.  Air and ground teams like Coulson, Bigcat, Conair etc are private businesses which are contracted by the provincial and in the event of emergencies, federal governments every single summer.  They also take contracts in the US, Portugal, Aus and south america.

 

data sets between feds provinces and municipalities are set down and agreed upon almost every autumn/winter after serious examination.  These are then enacted late winter and early to mid spring in the form of controlled burns and falls.  Many of which no longer exist in provinces due to lobbying by citizens who don't like the smoke etc.

 

The last TRUE major event in Jasper national was over 100 years ago.  The feds have been making major inroads in attempting to mitigate areas but have outright avoided lobbying by major forestry companies that wanted to wholesale log the areas under the guise of "forestry management" but the issue is over 100 years of deadfall have accumulated and the ONLY way to remove it...

 

Is to burn it.

 

You can not mitigate an entire national park.  it is not possible.  Like even a little.  Suggesting otherwise is insanity.

 

https://www.removepaywall.com/article/current

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/jasper-national-park-research-fire-1.4612320

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/4335116/jasper-national-park-mountain-pine-beetle-epidemic-plan/

 

https://blogs.egu.eu/geolog/2018/07/23/imaggeo-on-mondays-wildfires-leave-their-mark-on-jasper-national-park/

 

14 hours ago, Warhippy said:

In 2024 alone

 

Prescribed burns in Southesk, Talbot Lake, Douglas and HIllside as well as BCM totalling 5300 hectares burnt, as well as a municipal burn of 5-10 hectares. Since 2017 reduction projects and wildifre risk reduction have managed over 47,000 hectares largest areas included the

 

Bench FMU 3 and 4 corridors

Aspen Gardens/Sawridge

Doug fir Slopes west

Trail 8A water treatment, and Trail 8 B and C trail system

FMU 2 corridor

Stone Mountain 

93a evac south 93a evac north taken by the entirety of the jasper township to get out of jasper days before the fire tore through it

whistlers campground

Wapiti

Maintenance compounds in FID 11, 12 and 15

Thorton village

JPL, JPL plateaus

Lac Beauvert

Pat Lake FMU/4

Annette Day area and annette lake

Chetamon cleanup

Keith lakes

Signal Mountain

Maligne lk rd to Skyline ridge trail

 

And more all taken along the Montane Cordillera sub alpine and alpine forestry areas in to the taiga and boreal plains forestry areas of Albertas jasper national.  This is without mentioning that much of this work is ONLY viable during the late winter through early spring and as so much of it takes place in and around the jasper township and municipal areas, it also needs in many instances approval from the jasper township, which begs the question as to why the jasper township voted against creating larger firebreaks in 2020, 2021 and again in 2022 due to losing the "aesthetic appeal" of the crown jewel of Albertas parks areas.

 

Here in fact is the CIFFC yearly meeting prior to the fire season at the start of prescribed burn season and their outlook and projection on the 2024 fire season.  These are the experts.  Pay attention to what they have to say about the Cordillera regime areas of the rocky mountains and their fears of the boreal cordillera areas of the Yukon and northern provinces.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, DSVII said:

 

Let's continue that accountability journey.

 

2019  Budget cuts claim Alberta's elite wildfire fighting unit -  

 

The UCP eliminated Alberta’s elite wildfire-fighting crew of 63 firefighters stationed across the province. The program had been in service for over 40 years. The UCP made the cuts and ignored warnings from experienced firefighters. Former members of the team say they believe they could have made a difference this year if the program had not been eliminated by the UCP.

 

Shortly after being elected to office in 2019, the UCP government shut down 26 active fire towers across Alberta, more than one-fifth of detection coverage in the province. Lookouts are responsible for a 40-kilometre radius of forest. Early detection and investigation of wildfires enables firefighters to put suppression plans in place before wildfires escalate into large-scale catastrophes.

 

2020 - Province cuts funding for firefighter training: Alberta Fire Chiefs Association 

AFCA executive director Fred Tyrrell said the cuts will have consequences down the road.

 

“A lot of our small rural volunteer fire departments are in municipalities that don’t have big pockets and the potential consequences are simple,” Tyrrell said.

 

“Those volunteers that have stepped up to provide what has to be seen as a specialized service that requires a lot of volunteer hours, they may no longer be able to get that training, because their own municipality may not be able to afford the training programs that this grant up until now has provided.”

 

2023 - ‘Alberta’s UCP Government Has Cut Tens of Millions of Dollars From Wildfire Preparedness Programs

In 2018-2019, according to government estimates, Alberta’s “wildfire management,” budget was $130 million. In the 2019-2020 budget, the UCP itself boasted to the Edmonton Journal, Alberta’s wildfire management budget was $117.6 million.

 

And by 2022-2023, the province’s budget estimates reduced its “wildfire management” to $100.5 million. It is projected to fall again to $100.4 million in 2023-2024.

All told, that’s a $30 million cut, against rising inflation.

 

Parkland Institute Executive Director Ricardo Acuna says budget cuts are hampering the province’s emergency resources.

 

“Those are the kinds of cuts that have a direct impact on the province’s ability to detect and effectively fight wildfires,” Acuna told PressProgress.

 

“They eliminated the province’s elite aerial attack wildfire fighting program – which stationed 63 firefighters in key areas who were trained and prepared to rappel from helicopters into wildfires to facilitate more efficient firefighting. Bases included Edson, Fox Creek, and Lac La Biche – areas dealing with out-of-control fires this year. In that same budget, the government closed 15 wildfire lookouts meant to provide early detection of fires.”

 

2024 - Would you fight Alberta's wildfires for $22/hour? And no benefits?

 

It's "hard for Alberta to bring people back" when workers could earn more working for B.C. or Parks Canada, AUPE vice-president James Gault told CBC News. 

Seasonal firefighters in Alberta start at $22.44/hour. The most a seasonal employee could earn in a leadership position, with years of experience, is $30.17/hour. In B.C., pay starts at $27.58/hour. Parks Canada fire crew members started at $29.94/hour in 2023; in 2024, starting wages are $30.52/hour. 

 

According to a 2019 internal retention survey of Alberta's seasonal wildland firefighters obtained by CBC News, a third of respondents cited a lack of benefits as the "greatest challenge wildfire management faces when hoping to increase retention rates." 

'Conditional' offers

Unlike some other wildfire agencies, such as Parks Canada and those in Northwest Territories, B.C., Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Ontario, seasonal firefighters in Alberta receive no health benefits coverage. In April, Ontario said it would provide wildland firefighters with additional health coverage to include some types of cancers, heart injuries and PTSD — to bring benefits in line with what municipal firefighters are entitled to in that province. 

 

AUPE says it wants to see a similar extension to its wildland firefighters. "I would think that's almost secondary because we don't get any benefits," said Wigmore, who took a pay cut, and gave up the benefits, pension and job security she had as a permanent, year-round employee in Alberta for a job leading a unit on the front lines. 

 

 

Again.  The feds have less than 700 total individuals for fire management, monitoring and stewardship for the entire nation.  Fire fighting and management has been the provinces jurisdiction since the early 70s.

[Bure_Pavel]

16 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

Sarkonak's opinion.  Your opinion.  There is some truth to the statement that NO PLACE in Canada is truly prepared for fire in the 21st century but articles like these are just taking advantage of a chance to fan flames and burn the libs.   Jasper's loss is your gain apparently.

Its no ones gain, Jasper was a beautiful place with gorgeous scenery and full of wildlife. Especially as a national park, should have been protected.  

 

National parks = federal governments responsibility

Province park = provinces responsibility 

Regular parks = municipalities responsibility   

 

People saying the Federal government have their hands clean on this one are dead wrong. Maybe not so much regarding fighting the fire, but prevention 100%.

Edited July 26 by Bure_Pavel

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

See below.

 

 

 

Again.  The feds have less than 700 total individuals for fire management, monitoring and stewardship for the entire nation.  Fire fighting and management has been the provinces jurisdiction since the early 70s.

 

Not to mention that the Tories have also wielded their axe against Parks Canada when they were in government.

 

Quote

‘Parks Canada is being gutted,’ former deputy minister warns

Anne McIlroy

Ottawa

Published June 25, 2012

This article was published more than 12 years ago. Some information may no longer be current.

Environment Minister Peter Kent shows off part of what will beocme Rouge National Urban Park in Scarborough, Ont., on May 25, 2012.Nathan Denette/The Canadian Press

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A former deputy minister at Environment Canada says the Conservative government is gutting Parks Canada.

Jacques Gérin was with the department from 1977 to 1985, including three years as deputy minister. In a letter to Environment Minister Peter Kent, he said federal budget cuts will undermine a decade of progress on protecting the ecological integrity, or health, of Canada's national parks.

The agency is implementing $29-million in budget cuts, and is significantly reducing the number of scientists and technical staff who work in national parks. Many were hired over the past 10 years.

 

"These are highly-educated public servants with decades of experience in ecological restoration and understanding natural systems. These are the people who know what is happening to Canadian ecosystems and how to restore endangered species like caribou, salmon and rare plants," Mr. Gérin says.

Other experts have expressed the same concerns about cuts to the scientific capacity of Parks Canada, a move one critic described as a "lobotomy" of the parks system.

In response, Parks Canada has said the scientists were hired to develop monitoring programs and appropriate protocols for restoring ecosystems, but that now the agency is moving into another phase of the work.

Mr. Gérin doesn't buy that explanation. "If there is no monitors, who is going to do the monitoring?" he says.

 

The former deputy minister is also worried about how the cuts will affect efforts to build relationships with first nations. "People within Parks Canada who have spent years diligently building relationships of trust and respect with members of first nations are also being let go. It is hard to believe that these relationships will not suffer as a result."

He has not yet received a response to his letter to the environment minister. After his retirement, Mr. Mr. Gérin served as chair of a high-profile panel on the ecological intergity of Canada's national parks.

"We had taken two years to examine the problems our parks were facing. Our report concluded our natural treasures were indeed in danger. ... Our recommendations covered a wide range of necessary changes: to increase scientific understanding and capacity to monitor ecological health, to restore degraded park lands, to rebuild relationships with Aboriginal peoples and to develop better programs for Canadians to learn about and connect to the natural world.

"Substanial progress has been made," says Mr. Gérin, but those achievements are now at risk. "... Parks Canada is being gutted."

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/parks-canada-is-being-gutted-former-deputy-minister-warns/article4367990/

 

 

[Warhippy]

16 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Its no ones gain, Jasper was a beautiful place with gorgeous scenery and full of wildlife. Especially as a national park, should have been protected.  

 

National parks = federal governments responsibility

Province park = provinces responsibility 

Regular parks = municipalities responsibility   

 

People saying the Federal government have their hands clean on this one are dead wrong. Maybe not so much regarding fighting the fire, but prevention 100%.

Since 2017 the feds have committed to over 50k hectares of prescribed burns and been rejected by the province of Alberta and municipality of Jasper for creating larger fire breaks and larger burns.

 

The feds have been doing what they can with the manpower they have regarding parks canada and stewardship of the Jasper National park area.

 

Again though, wildfire fighting is the jurisdiction of the provincial government.  Period.  This is not an argument we will have because this is a matter of simple plain and bold fact.  While parks Canada COULD have done more, the last true sub alpine blazes of any severity enough to clean up the fuel in the area occurred in the late 1800s.  That is over 130 years of fuel being built up and mitigating that in a national forest with over a million hectares of Montane Cordillera regime vegetation being the principal source of the fuel at hand and now massive swaths of beetle killed areas.

 

The risks have been apparent since the 80s and have been screamed about from park services and fire experts for decades.  The fact even 50k hectares have been managed to be burnt in the last 7 years is actually impressive when you factor in how much lobbying goes in to ensuring these burns don't even happen due to poor optics and scaring the tourist economy away or burns that would shut down major hiking and walking trails or ruin vistas and views.

 

There is so much more involved than the person's opinion you posted and so much more than saying "national parks" federal responsibility

 

Please see the posted quotes for reference.

[Warhippy]

21 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

Not to mention that the Tories have also wielded their axe against Parks Canada when they were in government.

 

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/parks-canada-is-being-gutted-former-deputy-minister-warns/article4367990/

 

 

It's been decades long.  Mulroney even spoke of it during the acid rain environmental legislation as a source of serious concern regarding major forests and national parks.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

25 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Its no ones gain, Jasper was a beautiful place with gorgeous scenery and full of wildlife. Especially as a national park, should have been protected.  

 

National parks = federal governments responsibility

Province park = provinces responsibility 

Regular parks = municipalities responsibility   

 

People saying the Federal government have their hands clean on this one are dead wrong. Maybe not so much regarding fighting the fire, but prevention 100%.

Probably plenty of blame to go around.  Though it's Alberta where people check under their beds to see if the ghost of Pierre is lurking there before the go to sleep 

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

8 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

It's been decades long.  Mulroney even spoke of it during the acid rain environmental legislation as a source of serious concern regarding major forests and national parks.

 

True.  Just pointing out to the "fuck durtope" crowd that it goes both ways.

[Warhippy]

17 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

True.  Just pointing out to the "fuck durtope" crowd that it goes both ways.

It's just gotten so old man

 

Right now I am waiting to hear from a family displaced in Jasper because i have space for their rv, I also have a friend in westbank I am coordinating storage/stabling for horses in.

 

The entire time I am doing it all over social media "trudeau let jasper burn"

 

It's so tiring 

[canuck73_3]

7 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

It's just gotten so old man

 

Right now I am waiting to hear from a family displaced in Jasper because i have space for their rv, I also have a friend in westbank I am coordinating storage/stabling for horses in.

 

The entire time I am doing it all over social media "trudeau let jasper burn"

 

It's so tiring 

It's just wild to me that the folk who whine about civics the most have zero fucking clue how it works. It's exhausting.

[Bob Long]

4 hours ago, stawns said:

 

I think it needs to be a partnership.........an acknowledgement of the reality of the climate situation were in.  Obviously the provinces have neither the resources or the manpower to tackle this situation.  They're basically playing whackamole with forest fires

 

Why not train the military to do the work in the forests to fight forest fires, they're already in service and being paid.......convert older aircraft to fight forest fires etc etc.  they can also provide the same manpower and equipment to prevrntion

 

provinces can provide the planning, coordination, administration etc in both preventing and fighting fires.

 

Something has to change, we can't just keep watching entire towns disappear every summer.

 

As far as taking money from other areas, that's just robbing peter to pay Paul.  I'm all for cutting senior admin positions and salaries, but that money needs to stay in the education system.

 

using the military seems like compounding the problem to me, recruitment is hard enough, not sure people would join up for low pay to do that job. 

 

We do have the resources provincially, we just like wasting it on too much admin across too many ministry silo's. 

 

[Satchmo]

1 hour ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Its no ones gain, Jasper was a beautiful place with gorgeous scenery and full of wildlife. Especially as a national park, should have been protected.  

 

National parks = federal governments responsibility

Province park = provinces responsibility 

Regular parks = municipalities responsibility   

 

People saying the Federal government have their hands clean on this one are dead wrong. Maybe not so much regarding fighting the fire, but prevention 100%.

I'm not disputing the fact that Parks Canada is in charge of national parks.  I'm just commenting on the mileage Cons are trying to get out of this and the implication - with no proof based on past practices - that they would somehow have done better.

[RupertKBD]

4 hours ago, bolt said:

The environmentalists didn't want to backburn and protect the community.  When you have a bunch of dead forest caused by the pine beetle you have to act. 

 

The problem with the left wing movement is their soley blaming climate change. 

 

Absolute bullshit.

 

I'm an environmentalist and like me, every other environmentalist I know understand and support the idea of controlled burns to combat wildfires.

 

And in response to your last sentence, no, we're not. It's Climate Change combined with human error and mismanagement. Where we disagree is with which level of government the mismanagement is occurring.