Active (or Waiting Period) Players Set for the Hall of Fame...

[Kevin Biestra]

Agree or disagree...

 

 

The following players either active or recently retired and in the waiting period (or still technically active even if done in the NHL for a while) are stone cold locks for the Hall of Fame, going in even if they retired tomorrow.

 

Sidney Crosby  (GP 1272, Points 1596, active)

Alexander Ovechkin  (GP 1426, Points 1550, active)

Jaromir Jagr  (GP 1733, Points 1921, done)

Joe Thornton  (GP 1714, Points 1539, done)

Zdeno Chara  (GP 1680, Points 680, done)

Patrice Bergeron  (GP 1294, Points 1040, done)

Connor McDavid  (GP 645, Points 982, active)

Leon Draisaitl  (GP 719, Points 850, active)

Erik Karlsson  (GP 1002, Points 817, active)

Brent Burns  (GP 1415, Points 881, active)

Anze Kopitar  (GP 1373, Points 1211, active)

Steven Stamkos  (GP 1082, Points 1137, active)

Patrick Kane  (GP 1230, Points 1284, active)

Jonathan Toews  (GP 1067, Points 883, done)

Duncan Keith  (GP 1256, Points 646, done)

Corey Perry  (GP 1311, Points 905, active)

Nathan MacKinnon  (GP 791, Points 899, active)

Nikita Kucherov  (GP 725, Points 873, active)

Artemi Panarin  (GP 672, Points 781, active)

Victor Hedman  (GP 1052, Points 728, active)

Roman Josi  (GP 909, Points 686, active)

Drew Doughty  (GP 1177, Points 669, active)

Evgeni Malkin  (GP 1145, Points 1296, active)

Sergei Bobrovsky  (GP 700, Wins 396, active)

Andrei Vasilevskiy  (GP 477, Wins 293, active)

Marc Andre Fleury  (GP 1025, Wins 561, active)

Carey Price  (GP 712, Wins 361, done)

Auston Matthews  (GP 562, Points 649, active)

 

 

The following are on the borderline and will either squeak in after waiting a while or need a couple more years of productivity in line with their pace thus far.

 

Patrick Marleau  (GP 1779, Points 1197, done)

Eric Staal  (GP 1365, Points 1063, done)

Joe Pavelski  (GP 1332, Points 1068, done)

Brad Marchand  (GP 1029, Points 929, active)

Aleksander Barkov  (GP 737, Points 711, active)

Jamie Benn  (GP 1112, Points 907, active)

Phil Kessel  (GP 1286, Points 992, done)

John Tavares  (GP 1109, Points 1040, active)

Claude Giroux  (GP 1182, Points 1066, active)

Nicklas Backstrom  (GP 1105, Points 1033, done)

Ryan O'Reilly  (GP 1073, Points 711, active)

Kris Letang  (GP 1087, Points 742, active)

Jonathan Quick  (GP 780, Wins 393, active)

 

 

The following wouldn't be in if they retired tomorrow as it is just too early, but they are trending to be Hall of Famers if they can avoid bad luck or the Jonathan Cheechoo career cliff.

 

Quinn Hughes  (GP 363, Points 333)

Adam Fox

Cale Makar (might be in if he retired tomorrow despite the short career)

Connor Hellebuyck

Matthew Tkachuk

 

 

On track to make a case for themselves...

 

JT Miller  (GP 799, Points 639)

Elias Pettersson  (GP 407, Points 412)

 

 

 

Gonna be a bit of a logjam.  Who am I forgetting...

 

 

Edited August 6 by Kevin Biestra

[I.Am.Ironman]

I'm not sure I'd consider Cory Perry, Sergei Bobrovsky, Duncan Keith or Carey Price as locks to make the HOF. I think I put Marchand and Jonathan Quick ahead of all 4.

[Kevin Biestra]

42 minutes ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

I'm not sure I'd consider Cory Perry, Sergei Bobrovsky, Duncan Keith or Carey Price as locks to make the HOF. I think I put Marchand and Jonathan Quick ahead of all 4.

 

 

Keith is a stone cold guarantee.  With his two Norris Trophies he would be in even without his three Cups and Conn Smythe.  Perry is probably guaranteed even if he has to wait a handful of years.  Bobrovsky has two Vezinas and now a Cup and doesn't have Tim Thomas' small career numbers.  I think Carey Price has the weakest case but he had a level of "fame" no other goalie really did and was the league's face of goaltending and I think his one Vezina will be weighed higher than almost any other goalie's.

 

Edited August 5 by Kevin Biestra

[King Heffy]

On 8/4/2024 at 10:20 PM, Kevin Biestra said:

 

 

Keith is a stone cold guarantee.  With his two Norris Trophies he would be in even without his three Cups and Conn Smythe.  Perry is probably guaranteed even if he has to wait a handful of years.  Bobrovsky has two Vezinas and now a Cup and doesn't have Tim Thomas' small career numbers.  I think Carey Price has the weakest case but he had a level of "fame" no other goalie really did and was the league's face of goaltending and I think his one Vezina will be weighed higher than almost any other goalie's.

 

I think Marchand's international play puts him over the threshold.

[Kevin Biestra]

4 hours ago, King Heffy said:

I think Marchand's international play puts him over the threshold.

 

Yeah he's probably in...he's a 4-time postseason All Star.  But John LeClair was a 5-time postseason All Star, Claude Provost has 9 Cups etc.  You never quite know.

 

Brian Propp had 5 Cup finals, 1000 points and was part of the 1987 Canada Cup.  Also won the Spengler Cup and did well at World Championships.

 

Edited August 7 by Kevin Biestra

[Diamonds]

On 8/4/2024 at 10:20 PM, Kevin Biestra said:

 

 

Keith is a stone cold guarantee.  With his two Norris Trophies he would be in even without his three Cups and Conn Smythe.  Perry is probably guaranteed even if he has to wait a handful of years.  Bobrovsky has two Vezinas and now a Cup and doesn't have Tim Thomas' small career numbers.  I think Carey Price has the weakest case but he had a level of "fame" no other goalie really did and was the league's face of goaltending and I think his one Vezina will be weighed higher than almost any other goalie's.

 

Agree with you on all points. But also, Price's Vezina is accompanied by a Hart and Ted Lindsay. That is an accomplishment matched only by Hasek. Plus he also has his fair share of international accolades (Olympic gold plus best goalie, WJC gold plus MVP).

 

Only 3 Hart winners have yet to be inducted into the HOF which certainly bodes well for Perry's chances. Not making it to 1000 points might hold him off though like it has for Naslund (one of two eligible Ted Lindsay winners not to be inducted). Perry does have a Cup though which Naslund never got.

[Kevin Biestra]

6 minutes ago, Diamonds said:

Agree with you on all points. But also, Price's Vezina is accompanied by a Hart and Ted Lindsay. That is an accomplishment matched only by Hasek. Plus he also has his fair share of international accolades (Olympic gold plus best goalie, WJC gold plus MVP).

 

Only 3 Hart winners have yet to be inducted into the HOF which certainly bodes well for Perry's chances. Not making it to 1000 points might hold him off though like it has for Naslund (one of two eligible Ted Lindsay winners not to be inducted). Perry does have a Cup though which Naslund never got.

 

I think Perry was at risk of not being inducted but this third act of his career with one Cup final after another after another I feel might seal the deal.  I think it's 4 finals in the last 5 years...with 4 different teams.

 

 

Edited August 7 by Kevin Biestra

[wai_lai416]

i dont think JT Miller will even be in the HOF conversation unless he wins a cup.. he have no personal accolade or stats to back it up... EP prolly have a easier path to the HOF than Miller if they both don't win a cup.. EP prolly makes the HOF if he finish his career at or close to 1 ppg and hits 1k points which is possible at this point of his career.. Miller i don't think will be close to a ppg or 1k points so he would have to literally drag the canucks on his back and win the conn smythe and a cup to make the hof.

 

Connor Hellebyuck is a easy no for me unless he wins a cup or gets into the top 10 in wins.. his stats on paper doesn't jump off the page at you and his playoff performance is pretty bad almost every year... they beaten just 3 teams in the playoff and none of them are a power house at the time.. minnesota nashville edmonton.. 

[Kevin Biestra]

10 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

i dont think JT Miller will even be in the HOF conversation unless he wins a cup.. he have no personal accolade or stats to back it up... EP prolly have a easier path to the HOF than Miller if they both don't win a cup.. EP prolly makes the HOF if he finish his career at or close to 1 ppg and hits 1k points which is possible at this point of his career.. Miller i don't think will be close to a ppg or 1k points so he would have to literally drag the canucks on his back and win the conn smythe and a cup to make the hof.

 

Connor Hellebyuck is a easy no for me unless he wins a cup or gets into the top 10 in wins.. his stats on paper doesn't jump off the page at you and his playoff performance is pretty bad almost every year... they beaten just 3 teams in the playoff and none of them are a power house at the time.. minnesota nashville edmonton.. 

 

Miller won't be a point per game but I think he has a more than fair shot at 1000 points.  He will also have peaked higher along the way than some who really nickel and dime their way there.  His career arc is pretty similar to the Sedins with the slow start.

 

Hellebuyck...two Vezinas and a four time finalist.  His career totals will probably add up within a few years to make him hard to deny.

[wai_lai416]

13 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Miller won't be a point per game but I think he has a more than fair shot at 1000 points.  He will also have peaked higher along the way than some who really nickel and dime their way there.  His career arc is pretty similar to the Sedins with the slow start.

 

Hellebuyck...two Vezinas and a four time finalist.  His career totals will probably add up within a few years to make him hard to deny.

i still say no to hellebuyck is playoff showing is abysmal he'll need to have a cup run or something.. i think winnipeg is on the downswing.. so i don't think his total will go up as fast as some thinks. Miller needs 360 points in the next 6 years.. doable? but not guaranteed.. if u put marchand in the borderline and more than likely to hit 1k points and have a cup and instrumental in their runs.. and Kessel a multi cup winner playoff performer 8 point shy of 1k and the NHL iron man is also a borderline.. then miller even at 1k point without a cup is a big maybe if that years list is really weak coz i don't think he is even close to marchand or kessel

[IBatch]

On 8/8/2024 at 4:51 AM, wai_lai416 said:

i still say no to hellebuyck is playoff showing is abysmal he'll need to have a cup run or something.. i think winnipeg is on the downswing.. so i don't think his total will go up as fast as some thinks. Miller needs 360 points in the next 6 years.. doable? but not guaranteed.. if u put marchand in the borderline and more than likely to hit 1k points and have a cup and instrumental in their runs.. and Kessel a multi cup winner playoff performer 8 point shy of 1k and the NHL iron man is also a borderline.. then miller even at 1k point without a cup is a big maybe if that years list is really weak coz i don't think he is even close to marchand or kessel

JT Miller has Hart votes (deservedly so), in 3 of his five seasons, one if we scraped in, would have likely been a finalist or winner.    One of a couple players that didn't disappear Greens final year, and then paced the best in the league, team fell a little short of a miracle second half.     It's not as far fetched as it looks, 3 times 7th in all-star voting, which means quite a few feel he's at least a top five center.    Not the sexy pick, but he's been the Canucks best forward (the good, great and grumpy all-in) since he arrived, and production wise it's not really even close, EPs got a lot of catching up to do.   

 

Up until his most consistent linemate, was public enemy number two (or for some one), so it's not like anyone is boosting his stats.   His 99 point effort, he played just over 200 minutes with Brock.   Top lines usually have the same bodies for 400 plus minutes ... played with everyone really.   And was part of 4 of 5 the Canuck's top line combos (other was Podz EP Hogs, couldn't score but also didn't get scored on).   

 

Agree he would need to replicate his two best seasons a few more times to get a shot ... Playoff heroics would for sure boost his odds too.    Would give him fair odds of averaging 60 points the next six seasons.    IF we re-sign Brock, think those odds go way up.    Figured he'd be a PPG player the first half or so of his deal, 50 point guy the second half.    So far he's created some buffer to achieve that.   Last year, that was one of the best lines in hockey for an extended period of time.    They did extremely well considering that Tochett tasked them to play head on the other teams best line.   

He's got a shot anyways. 

[IBatch]

Feel that if Perry gets on the list then Getzlaf should too.   He was the better player, at least that was the thought during his career.  Didn't win the Hart but was runner up, and Perry barely edged D Sedin.   And THN uses that Hart as an example that not all Harts are created equal.    It was the final 20 games that even put Perry into the conversation, otherwise a pedestrian season.   

[Coconuts]

Hmm, not sure Panarin is a lock if he retires tomorrow. Calder, WJC gold, Gagarin cup, World Championship silver and bronze. Not nothing, but hmm. 781 points in 672 games, but does he hit 1k games? 33 in October, one year left on his deal. Does he continue to produce how he has? I think he could get there but I question his accolades even if he has the point totals thus far. 

 

Josi's won a Norris, multiple time all-star, but I'm a bit on the fence as of today. His point per game is stellar for a D, no question. Three silvers at the World Championship ain't nothing considering he plays for Switzerland though I suppose, silver at the world cup too. I could see him getting eventually if he keeps piling up points, it's rarer for D to do that. If he retired tomorrow though? Not so sure about that. 

 

The rest of the first bracket will almost certainly be hall of famers. 

 

I really, really liked Pavelski but despite his numbers he never really won anything. Even at the international level all he got was an Olympic silver. He's hall of very good imo. 

 

Jamie Benn's an odd one, I dunno. Art Ross, Olympic gold, WJC gold.. is that enough? He's at 907 points in 1112 games, if he hits 1k is that enough? Doesn't really strike me as a hall of famer but he's been on some very good international teams. 

 

Quick's three cups, two Jennings, and Conn Smythe will get him in. Olympic silver might help. 

 

Not sure about Giroux, his numbers are good but he hasn't won much either, at least not at the NHL level. WJC gold, WC gold, WCH gold, is that enough? He's kinda in Benn territory. 

 

Letang's totals and three cups get him in imo.

 

I think O'Reilly gets there if he can bump his totals up more, which he should. Conn Smythe, cup, Selke, Lady Byng. That's enough. Couple world championship gold, world cup of hockey gold. As of today I'd have him as a more of a lock than Panarin. 

 

Backstrom's totals, cup, two world championship golds, and his Olympic silver get him in eventually. Without the cup I think it'd be more of a question mark, but I think the cup gets him over the hump. 

 

Tavares is a weird one, he hasn't won anything at the NHL level at all but he's been a regular all-star. His totals and Olympic gold, WCH gold, and two world juniors might get him over the hump. A cup would probably seal the deal but that seems unlikely to happen. 

 

Kessel barely missed 1k points but it's hard to argue with three cups, I think the iron-man streak helps him in too. Him being unique in holding that record helps the same way Marleau's having the games played record will probably help him get in (alongside two Olympic golds, WCH gold, and WC gold). 

 

Barkov is well on his way, particularly if he can win another Selke or two. 

 

Marchand's international resume and cup will get him in if he can hit 1k points imo, and there's a very good chance he does.

 

Staal's triple gold, don't see how he doesn't, he might have to wait a little while though.

 

Hughes will probably end up a hall of famer, Fox, Makar, Tkachuk, and Hellebuyck too. Agreed. If they can stay healthy and maintain their play they'll probably get in, I expect they'll all pick up some more NHL or international hardware before it's all said and done. 

 

Pettersson's off to a good start with a Calder and World Championship gold and has quite a bit of runway left in his career, I could see it. A Selke, Olympic gold, or cup would be a big boost. His world junior silver could help down the road.

 

Miller, I think he'll land in the hall of very good, similar to Pavelski. He's got a smattering of junior level gold, including world junior gold, but he hasn't won anything as an adult. He'll be 32 this coming season so he's beginning to run out of time, he really needs to win some hardware if he wants to get over the hump, I don't think breaking 1k games and 1k points will be enough without gathering some high end hardware; without hardware he'll probably just be remembered as one of Vancouver's most productive players. 

 

 

Edited August 22 by Coconuts

[wai_lai416]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

JT Miller has Hart votes (deservedly so), in 3 of his five seasons, one if we scraped in, would have likely been a finalist or winner.    One of a couple players that didn't disappear Greens final year, and then paced the best in the league, team fell a little short of a miracle second half.     It's not as far fetched as it looks, 3 times 7th in all-star voting, which means quite a few feel he's at least a top five center.    Not the sexy pick, but he's been the Canucks best forward (the good, great and grumpy all-in) since he arrived, and production wise it's not really even close, EPs got a lot of catching up to do.   

 

Up until his most consistent linemate, was public enemy number two (or for some one), so it's not like anyone is boosting his stats.   His 99 point effort, he played just over 200 minutes with Brock.   Top lines usually have the same bodies for 400 plus minutes ... played with everyone really.   And was part of 4 of 5 the Canuck's top line combos (other was Podz EP Hogs, couldn't score but also didn't get scored on).   

 

Agree he would need to replicate his two best seasons a few more times to get a shot ... Playoff heroics would for sure boost his odds too.    Would give him fair odds of averaging 60 points the next six seasons.    IF we re-sign Brock, think those odds go way up.    Figured he'd be a PPG player the first half or so of his deal, 50 point guy the second half.    So far he's created some buffer to achieve that.   Last year, that was one of the best lines in hockey for an extended period of time.    They did extremely well considering that Tochett tasked them to play head on the other teams best line.   

He's got a shot anyways. 

He will have a shot be a long shot. But like I said if some of the ppl on his list are fringe like marchand.. cup winner and likely gonna hit 1k points and not even retiring yet. Then miller is no where near fringe coz Marchand >>> miller career wise up to the same point and age

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

He will have a shot be a long shot. But like I said if some of the ppl on his list are fringe like marchand.. cup winner and likely gonna hit 1k points and not even retiring yet. Then miller is no where near fringe coz Marchand >>> miller career wise up to the same point and age

Miller on the Bruins maybe things would be different who knows, was tough to crack a contending NYR lineup, and move up on a loaded contending TB team.   Once he was given a shot, took it and ran with it.   Personally i wouldn't >>> Marchand.   Six season at a PPG or better playing on the wing with world class centers and one of the best snipers in the game.  It's somewhat situational.    Without that his stats aren't that different.   Haven't seen Marchand get 99 points, playing with 9 different guys in one season. 

Edited August 23 by IBatch

[wai_lai416]

45 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Miller on the Bruins maybe things would be different who knows, was tough to crack a contending NYR lineup, and move up on a loaded contending TB team.   Once he was given a shot, took it and ran with it.   Personally i wouldn't >>> Marchand.   Six season at a PPG or better playing on the wing with world class centers and one of the best snipers in the game.  It's somewhat situational.    Without that his stats aren't that different.   Haven't seen Marchand get 99 points, playing with 9 different guys in one season. 

sure but this is the same guy that lead the team in scoring and broke 100 points even with pastrnak and Bergeron missing a quarter of the season each.. and since u said miller have Hart votes so it must mean something.. well Marchand have wayyyyyy more hart votes than miller in his career on top of all the selke votes.. ppl are bias coz he's the rat and will forever hate him.. but Marchand is a heck of a player offensive and defensively on top of one of the games most effective and hated pest.. Marchand in his prime defensively is >>>> miller and it's not really close even though he's not a centre.

[IBatch]

58 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

sure but this is the same guy that lead the team in scoring and broke 100 points even with pastrnak and Bergeron missing a quarter of the season each.. and since u said miller have Hart votes so it must mean something.. well Marchand have wayyyyyy more hart votes than miller in his career on top of all the selke votes.. ppl are bias coz he's the rat and will forever hate him.. but Marchand is a heck of a player offensive and defensively on top of one of the games most effective and hated pest.. Marchand in his prime defensively is >>>> miller and it's not really close even though he's not a centre.

Miller playing with most of the lineup at different times, is still a better season than Marchand missing out on his two future HHOF linemates.    Yes he's got a lot of catching up to do, the point is teams and teammates matter, and Miller playing LW on that those teams instead you'd have to think his numbers would look awfully great too, and instead of Marchand getting the accolades, it would be him.   Sure he's developed into an elite player.   So has Miller, and without the back-up.   Last season was pretty darn good too. 

Edited August 23 by IBatch

[wai_lai416]

13 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Miller playing with most of the lineup at different times, is still a better season than Marchand missing out on his two future HHOF linemates.    Yes he's got a lot of catching up to do, the point is teams and teammates matter, and Miller playing LW on that those teams instead you'd have to think his numbers would look awfully great too, and instead of Marchand getting the accolades, it would be him.   Sure he's developed into an elite player.   So has Miller, and without the back-up.   Last season was pretty darn good too. 

well what I said still stand if Marchand doesn't make it into the hall of fame with a cup and another cup appearance + almost a .9ppg in his career and breaking 1k points.. then Miller have no chance of going in unless he wins the cup here and gets a conn Smyth.. and this is based on the ops list.. whether or not Marchand or Miller makes it I have no idea.. but if Marchand doesn't make it in then Miller will have no chance of making it in imo. no one is going to look at who he played with.. and for argument sake he didn't play with great wingers.. but he's playing with one of the top 2 offensive defenceman in the league, and Hughes is involved in a massive chunk of Miller's point total in Vancouver.

[IBatch]

On 8/22/2024 at 11:01 PM, wai_lai416 said:

well what I said still stand if Marchand doesn't make it into the hall of fame with a cup and another cup appearance + almost a .9ppg in his career and breaking 1k points.. then Miller have no chance of going in unless he wins the cup here and gets a conn Smyth.. and this is based on the ops list.. whether or not Marchand or Miller makes it I have no idea.. but if Marchand doesn't make it in then Miller will have no chance of making it in imo. no one is going to look at who he played with.. and for argument sake he didn't play with great wingers.. but he's playing with one of the top 2 offensive defenceman in the league, and Hughes is involved in a massive chunk of Miller's point total in Vancouver.

Last season yes (QHs).    The rest of his career top two is a stretch, and it goes both ways, QHs is getting points because of JT Miller too.   What about Josi?  Makar, and well EKs Norris was shocking given SJ was such a turd of a team.   QHs broke out last season.  

 

   For me anyways, his 99 point season was about JT Miller,  his four point night in Ottawa (was there) it was all him nobody else seemed like they were in the same game, both sides.   McKinnon/Kucherov/McDavid pace with Bruce, PPG pace with Green, and was definitely the best player on the team, a lot of those "points" JT Miller created on his own, with a revolving door of line mates.    For sure he'd of won the Hart or at least been a finalist, if the team kept it going for a few more games.   The season after wasn't very good though.   Then him and Brock and Suter/Pizza (not Pasta and Bergeron, had a better full season.   To me it was a more impressive effort then Corey Perry's crazy final 20 games that got ANA into the playoffs and took D Sedins better full season... 

 

Nobody is debating that Marchand won't make the HHOF.   And we are all agreeing that Miller has a lot of work to do to catch up.   3 more seasons like last year should help him gain some ground.   He's an outlier sure.    He definitely hasn't played with the same quality of players as Marchand so far in his career, which is true.   Last year Brock's resurgence helped Miller, but it's JT Miller who's helped Brock the most too. 

 

Notice the "Lotto Line" this is JT Millers 99 point year... it sure didn't do him any favours.   What a blender!  Two coaches, only Garland and Miller did anything with Green.  JT Miller had a more second impressive second half then pretty much any Canuck i've watched, Sedins, Naslund, Bure, Mogilny included.   Didn't matter who was added to his line. 

 

Edit: As an aside, was never into the "Miller versus Horvat"  thing, the coaches obviously knew who the better player was.   And it wasn't like the eye test or the things like this below weren't available.   Pettersson Horvat Boeser wasn't an effective line.    The Lotto line either.   And this wasn't EP's finest season.   EP's best year, was wasted on Spencer Martin.   At least JB was fired.   And the major surgery happened.   Since he's arrived JT Miller is making a case for the HHOF, 362 GP, 402 points (without checking, 50 or so more then EP) an all situation centers plus 44.     Yes he needs to keep it up for another 4-5  probably to make a case for the HHOF.   Unlikely, but possible.    Also possible his number ends up hanging from the rafters with some playoff heroics. 

 

Also as a Canucks fan, only Bure has managed two top ten all-time seasons.   Those for sure rank a lot higher than Millers.   As do most other single season records.  But man did he have a killer second half.   Bure had a killer first half one season, 40 in 40 pretty much, then 20 the second half (goals).   If he can add another one or two ... then yes the rafters for sure is a possibility.   EP could bump Miller, and well he could bump himself too. 

 

For perspective, JT Miller's 3 most productive  seasons with the Canuck's are 7, 9, 26.   Henrik 1, 11, 28.   They are comparable.    JT Miller more goals of course.   Naslund, 5, 15, 24.    Bure has them all beat by a country mile, 2,3, 14... And 171 goals.    That said both JT Miller and EP have a shot at adding their names into the top 30 a lot more.  QHs too (91 is good for 12th all-time).    The Canucks for sure don't look anything like the Habs!  

Edited August 25 by IBatch

[wai_lai416]

8 hours ago, IBatch said:

Last season yes (QHs).    The rest of his career top two is a stretch, and it goes both ways, QHs is getting points because of JT Miller too.   What about Josi?  Makar, and well EKs Norris was shocking given SJ was such a turd of a team.   QHs broke out last season.  

 

   For me anyways, his 99 point season was about JT Miller,  his four point night in Ottawa (was there) it was all him nobody else seemed like they were in the same game, both sides.   McKinnon/Kucherov/McDavid pace with Bruce, PPG pace with Green, and was definitely the best player on the team, a lot of those "points" JT Miller created on his own, with a revolving door of line mates.    For sure he'd of won the Hart or at least been a finalist, if the team kept it going for a few more games.   The season after wasn't very good though.   Then him and Brock and Suter/Pizza (not Pasta and Bergeron, had a better full season.   To me it was a more impressive effort then Corey Perry's crazy final 20 games that got ANA into the playoffs and took D Sedins better full season... 

 

Nobody is debating that Marchand won't make the HHOF.   And we are all agreeing that Miller has a lot of work to do to catch up.   3 more seasons like last year should help him gain some ground.   He's an outlier sure.    He definitely hasn't played with the same quality of players as Marchand so far in his career, which is true.   Last year Brock's resurgence helped Miller, but it's JT Miller who's helped Brock the most too. 

 

Notice the "Lotto Line" this is JT Millers 99 point year... it sure didn't do him any favours.   What a blender!  Two coaches, only Garland and Miller did anything with Green.  JT Miller had a more second impressive second half then pretty much any Canuck i've watched, Sedins, Naslund, Bure, Mogilny included.   Didn't matter who was added to his line. 

 

Edit: As an aside, was never into the "Miller versus Horvat"  thing, the coaches obviously knew who the better player was.   And it wasn't like the eye test or the things like this below weren't available.   Pettersson Horvat Boeser wasn't an effective line.    The Lotto line either.   And this wasn't EP's finest season.   EP's best year, was wasted on Spencer Martin.   At least JB was fired.   And the major surgery happened.   Since he's arrived JT Miller is making a case for the HHOF, 362 GP, 402 points (without checking, 50 or so more then EP) an all situation centers plus 44.     Yes he needs to keep it up for another 4-5  probably to make a case for the HHOF.   Unlikely, but possible.    Also possible his number ends up hanging from the rafters with some playoff heroics. 

 

Also as a Canucks fan, only Bure has managed two top ten all-time seasons.   Those for sure rank a lot higher than Millers.   As do most other single season records.  But man did he have a killer second half.   Bure had a killer first half one season, 40 in 40 pretty much, then 20 the second half (goals).   If he can add another one or two ... then yes the rafters for sure is a possibility.   EP could bump Miller, and well he could bump himself too. 

 

For perspective, JT Miller's 3 most productive  seasons with the Canuck's are 7, 9, 26.   Henrik 1, 11, 28.   They are comparable.    JT Miller more goals of course.   Naslund, 5, 15, 24.    Bure has them all beat by a country mile, 2,3, 14... And 171 goals.    That said both JT Miller and EP have a shot at adding their names into the top 30 a lot more.  QHs too (91 is good for 12th all-time).    The Canucks for sure don't look anything like the Habs!  

I wouldn’t call Quinn Hughes broke out last season. He’s scored more goals in the beginning to mid season something that doesn’t seem character for him. Assist wise he’s very similar. 
 

again you seem to miss my point. I am basing it on the ops list he put Marchand on the fringe list. If Marchand is fringe then miller is not even fringe because Marchand > miller at same stage and career wise and if you actually watch the bruins game.. Marchand stats isn’t a by product of his linemate.. he’s actually a very skilled player but an absolute douchebag. If miller playing with boeser plus random guy is impressive than wouldn’t ep 102 points be as impressive playing with kuzmenko beauvillier mikheyev podz hoglander Joshua boeser pederson. Ppl here seem to give a pass for millers previous season early struggle but ready to tear a new one into ep despite the coach handicapping the only players he have success with on the team and then after trading him away give him 0 players to play with. But this isn’t about ep. Like I said I dunno if Marchand or miller will make the hall of fame or not. But if Marchand doesn’t make the hall of fame then miller shouldn’t even be in the conversation to make it as his regular season stats doesn’t jump off the page and he doesn’t have much playoff stats to say he’s hall worthy either. Hence he needs to lead the team on a cup run to even have a chance to get in on a weak year. 

[IBatch]

16 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

I wouldn’t call Quinn Hughes broke out last season. He’s scored more goals in the beginning to mid season something that doesn’t seem character for him. Assist wise he’s very similar. 
 

again you seem to miss my point. I am basing it on the ops list he put Marchand on the fringe list. If Marchand is fringe then miller is not even fringe because Marchand > miller at same stage and career wise and if you actually watch the bruins game.. Marchand stats isn’t a by product of his linemate.. he’s actually a very skilled player but an absolute douchebag. If miller playing with boeser plus random guy is impressive than wouldn’t ep 102 points be as impressive playing with kuzmenko beauvillier mikheyev podz hoglander Joshua boeser pederson. Ppl here seem to give a pass for millers previous season early struggle but ready to tear a new one into ep despite the coach handicapping the only players he have success with on the team and then after trading him away give him 0 players to play with. But this isn’t about ep. Like I said I dunno if Marchand or miller will make the hall of fame or not. But if Marchand doesn’t make the hall of fame then miller shouldn’t even be in the conversation to make it as his regular season stats doesn’t jump off the page and he doesn’t have much playoff stats to say he’s hall worthy either. Hence he needs to lead the team on a cup run to even have a chance to get in on a weak year. 

Breakout ... So far Miller and Marchand "stats"  points, TOI, at the same age then Marchands < JT Millers not by much but he "broke out" at 26, where as the Rat broke out at 28.   It's funny how Miller still is getting the stink eye by some.   Like I keep saying, he would need another 4-5 seasons (age difference) to keep it up, but the two are a lot closer then your giving him credit for to date.    

 

Playoffs are team thing, have to make it there,  Marchand is one of the luckiest players of his generation to play on a regular playoff team his entire career.   JT Miller did too, NYR was a contender when he was with them, TB ... so until he was 25, then just the bubble and last year, 2 of 5 seasons with the Canucks.     Nobody is saying we aren't a playoff team anymore, so he's definitely got a chance to catch or even surpass Marchands regular season stats. 

 

Marchand was never looked at as a great Bruin, or star Bruin until he was 28.    

 

Edit:  If you go read my reply, it had nothing to do with if Marchand was a fringe ... that came later, your point .  All i'm saying is the two are closer than you think, actually stats wise, Miller has a leg up given he's been used primarily as a center since he got top line minutes with us, and two extra years to work with.  

 

As for Marchand, the talent was obvious when he played us in 2011.    Those shorties and his over the top antics ... i'd put him on the list of locks actually.    He's still got Pasta, and he's healthy, no reason to think he doesn't sign another deal, and won't be surprised if it's a 4-5 year one either.    1100 points is for sure within  his realm.   An all-time Rat, he's getting in. 

 

JT Miller, doesn't have the buzz of other players.   At least he's starting to get acknowledged.   And no I wouldn't say he's a lock.   But like the OP said, he's got a shot.      

 

Curiously,  JT Miller is a fantasy darling, he's up there in the top brackets with the best of the best, that include shots, blocks, hits plus minus.    Every year gets less respect than he deserves, well until last year anyways.   He's heads and tails ahead of EP over the same time period.   Now they are both in the same age group (when he broke out).   Will be interesting to see how long JT Miller can hold on to first line distinction.    All he did last year was kick ass again.  103 points, for most of the season was pacing or a little ahead of Henrik Sedin, and didn't get the 70% plus o-zone starts or feast on the PP, and didn't have Kesler taking on the best of the  best, that was his job.   

 

14th for Hart voting on a non-playoff team.    That doesn't happen often either.    A few more wins, and a lock for a finalist.    Have to wonder what he could do with DeBrusk on his line too.   Sure would be nice to have two top six players to play with, let alone two HHOFers.    Tochett did say "i won't lie and say it isn't tempting" (DeBrusk with Jt Miller). 

 

Edit:  JT Miller EP Brock.    It would be interesting to see what those 3 could manage together now that they are all in their primes too.   Too bad we don't have the luxury to find out.    Marchand Lindholm Pasta ... Marchand will continue to have good company. 

Edited August 26 by IBatch

[wai_lai416]

9 hours ago, IBatch said:

Breakout ... So far Miller and Marchand "stats"  points, TOI, at the same age then Marchands < JT Millers not by much but he "broke out" at 26, where as the Rat broke out at 28.   It's funny how Miller still is getting the stink eye by some.   Like I keep saying, he would need another 4-5 seasons (age difference) to keep it up, but the two are a lot closer then your giving him credit for to date.    

 

Playoffs are team thing, have to make it there,  Marchand is one of the luckiest players of his generation to play on a regular playoff team his entire career.   JT Miller did too, NYR was a contender when he was with them, TB ... so until he was 25, then just the bubble and last year, 2 of 5 seasons with the Canucks.     Nobody is saying we aren't a playoff team anymore, so he's definitely got a chance to catch or even surpass Marchands regular season stats. 

 

Marchand was never looked at as a great Bruin, or star Bruin until he was 28.    

 

Edit:  If you go read my reply, it had nothing to do with if Marchand was a fringe ... that came later, your point .  All i'm saying is the two are closer than you think, actually stats wise, Miller has a leg up given he's been used primarily as a center since he got top line minutes with us, and two extra years to work with.  

 

As for Marchand, the talent was obvious when he played us in 2011.    Those shorties and his over the top antics ... i'd put him on the list of locks actually.    He's still got Pasta, and he's healthy, no reason to think he doesn't sign another deal, and won't be surprised if it's a 4-5 year one either.    1100 points is for sure within  his realm.   An all-time Rat, he's getting in. 

 

JT Miller, doesn't have the buzz of other players.   At least he's starting to get acknowledged.   And no I wouldn't say he's a lock.   But like the OP said, he's got a shot.      

 

Curiously,  JT Miller is a fantasy darling, he's up there in the top brackets with the best of the best, that include shots, blocks, hits plus minus.    Every year gets less respect than he deserves, well until last year anyways.   He's heads and tails ahead of EP over the same time period.   Now they are both in the same age group (when he broke out).   Will be interesting to see how long JT Miller can hold on to first line distinction.    All he did last year was kick ass again.  103 points, for most of the season was pacing or a little ahead of Henrik Sedin, and didn't get the 70% plus o-zone starts or feast on the PP, and didn't have Kesler taking on the best of the  best, that was his job.   

 

14th for Hart voting on a non-playoff team.    That doesn't happen often either.    A few more wins, and a lock for a finalist.    Have to wonder what he could do with DeBrusk on his line too.   Sure would be nice to have two top six players to play with, let alone two HHOFers.    Tochett did say "i won't lie and say it isn't tempting" (DeBrusk with Jt Miller). 

 

Edit:  JT Miller EP Brock.    It would be interesting to see what those 3 could manage together now that they are all in their primes too.   Too bad we don't have the luxury to find out.    Marchand Lindholm Pasta ... Marchand will continue to have good company. 

the amount of disrespect marchand gets as a player is unbelievable and you think he only broke out at 28. how many players in the league can you say is a 20+ goal scorer his entire career? he failed to hit 20 once in his career because there's only 48 games due to lockout and he ended with 18.. so far to just count that as a 20 goal season.. he played 15 years in the league and have hit 20+ in 13 of them one being his rookie season he played 20 games and one being the shortened season yet he somehow only broke out at 28.. you could say he evolved into a better passer as he aged and of coz helps when you have a sniper like pastrnak. he's going to finish top 40 in most 20+ goals season in the history that's something.. and of those 40 players all of them are or will be in the HoF prolly with the exception of pavelski.. 

 

is pavelski a hall of fame in your mind? i think he's a good player but i don't think he's hall worthy.. his peak years isn't as great as Miller but he is a better scorer which counts for a lot.. and he's over 1k points in his career and one of the most consistent player in the league. the only way miller have any consideration for the hall of fame is he wins a cup. my opinion he doesn't have a better "CAREER" as pavelski or marchand.

[Bob Long]

8 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

the amount of disrespect marchand gets as a player is unbelievable and you think he only broke out at 28. how many players in the league can you say is a 20+ goal scorer his entire career? he failed to hit 20 once in his career because there's only 48 games due to lockout and he ended with 18.. so far to just count that as a 20 goal season.. he played 15 years in the league and have hit 20+ in 13 of them one being his rookie season he played 20 games and one being the shortened season yet he somehow only broke out at 28.. you could say he evolved into a better passer as he aged and of coz helps when you have a sniper like pastrnak. he's going to finish top 40 in most 20+ goals season in the history that's something.. and of those 40 players all of them are or will be in the HoF prolly with the exception of pavelski.. 

 

is pavelski a hall of fame in your mind? i think he's a good player but i don't think he's hall worthy.. his peak years isn't as great as Miller but he is a better scorer which counts for a lot.. and he's over 1k points in his career and one of the most consistent player in the league. the only way miller have any consideration for the hall of fame is he wins a cup. my opinion he doesn't have a better "CAREER" as pavelski or marchand.

 

I suspect it's the licking that turns people off. 

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

the amount of disrespect marchand gets as a player is unbelievable and you think he only broke out at 28. how many players in the league can you say is a 20+ goal scorer his entire career? he failed to hit 20 once in his career because there's only 48 games due to lockout and he ended with 18.. so far to just count that as a 20 goal season.. he played 15 years in the league and have hit 20+ in 13 of them one being his rookie season he played 20 games and one being the shortened season yet he somehow only broke out at 28.. you could say he evolved into a better passer as he aged and of coz helps when you have a sniper like pastrnak. he's going to finish top 40 in most 20+ goals season in the history that's something.. and of those 40 players all of them are or will be in the HoF prolly with the exception of pavelski.. 

 

is pavelski a hall of fame in your mind? i think he's a good player but i don't think he's hall worthy.. his peak years isn't as great as Miller but he is a better scorer which counts for a lot.. and he's over 1k points in his career and one of the most consistent player in the league. the only way miller have any consideration for the hall of fame is he wins a cup. my opinion he doesn't have a better "CAREER" as pavelski or marchand.

oYes he broke out his 8th season.  Started at 20.   Sure you could say his 7th maybe, 37 goals and 61 points.  18 goals in 45 games followed up by 24 and 25 isn't breaking out.   Had 42 points in a full season at 26.  Not inspiring.    Think you need to find another guy to debate this with, I'm saying he's likely going to the HHOF.   And pointing  that both Miller broke out before he did.   TOI is telling too,  Marchand's minutes weren't exactly top line until they were.   Made sense too, given whom else was on the team then.   He also had to work his way up.   Way I see it, JT Miller is ahead of the game a bit at the same age ... so why can't he also achieve the same things?  He's a center not a winger.   Another 95-103 campaign next season, another big step.    Marchand is likely got a couple good years left then retirement phase but that's enough.    How's that not respect? 

 

JT Millers 2 best seasons > then Marchands.   And he's still got time to add more.  Without Pasta and Bergeron. 

Edited August 27 by IBatch

[IBatch]

This might seem egregious, but actually believe Toews is the most overrated player on this list.   The same way he was added (at the age of 28!!) to the NHL's greatest top hundred players all-time.   What a whiff on that one.  Sports Illustrated did a re-do, taking five guys out and adding five guys.   Cups obviously matter.   But let's be real.   Malkin, Hawerchuck, Goulet,  Gilmour, Belfour >>> then Toews, and they didn't get on that list.    They argued Toew's, Datsyuk, Niedermayer, Lindros and Gartner out.   Some compelling stuff.    Actually agree with most of it.   Gilmour was a bigger snub then Malkin IMO, he was debatably  best player on the planet briefly, with the like's of Gretzky, Mario, Lafontaine, Oats, Yzerman, Sakic, Sundin etc, and that's just a sample size of centers.  Also was a standout in the greatest team ever assembled, 87 Canada Cup.    Hawerchuk ... well Jets.  Goulet well Nords.   

 

And on this list that almost  all the "maybes", were better individual players.    Just happened to be on the right team at the right time.    One of the most overpaid players in the cap era too.   Reminds me of post 94 Messier, a couple very good seasons then meh and entitlement. 

 

Yes he will get in.  They sure whiffed on counting their chickens before they hatched.   Hawerchuk even after he laid waste to goalies in the 80's, was still piling up 70 assists and 20 goals late in his career.   You know peak H. Sedin stuff.   Gilmour was at least his equal defensively, and so much more aside from that.   If he went to any other team aside from LA, Boston or maybe us, highly doubt he'd amount to more then O'Reilly. 

 

Back to the 100 greatest ... Hawerchuk and Stastny would have been the two biggest stars of the 80's without Gretzky (Coffey too, but just forwards).    He was the guy who took that face-off and told Gretzky what to do (just take off) and trusted Mario would get and give him the puck ... Keenan had the two greatest defensive centers in the game, Messier and Sutter, but instead loaded his line with his best offensive weapons .. shout out to Murphy for making it so easy, everyone expected the pass to land on Murphy's stick including they Russian lone defenseman and the goalie, Gretzky didn't even look at Mario, that's how he saw the game. 

 

Toews might have 3 cups, and was one of a group of guys (Kesler, Bergeron, Kopitar) for the Selke .. but he was nothing like some of the guys left out of that list. 

Edited August 27 by IBatch