Pavel Bure or Quinn Hughes

[Rip The Mesh]

2 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

And there would thankfully be no Mark Messier Leadership Trophy.

Lays potato chips should be ashamed. 

[IBatch]

Both unique talents.   Difference to me is Bure didn't need more then a season to get going and then launched himself into elite wingers of his era, was special from his first to his last shift.    And that he was by far the superior post season player (so far, not that QHs is at fault for that either, that's a team thing too).    Bure was a one player line often in the regular season, Gino and ?!  whomever.   Sometimes Linden, sometimes not.   As for Linden, at number two overall, he we still got more value then we've received from QHs so far.    And what's this about "saving the franchise"?   Bure didn't do that.   He bailed from the franchise when it was in trouble.   Orca entertainment was brought in to bail out the Griffiths who were bleeding money due to salary disclosure (in fairness they weren't getting paid close to what they should have been, but it got out of hand five years later).   Moginly  was here, our second bona-fide big star.   QHs has had one great regular season so far.   Bure had two back to back and as @Kevin Biestra stated above, would have won the Conn Smythe if Ronning and Lafayette made good on their wide open net game 7 shots, seasons 2-3 ... was how old in 94?  Who scored both goals again that game?  Linden.  Who also holds all the post season records.   He was money in 1989 versus CAL, one of the best teams all-time (THN thinks so anyways, ranked them a lot higher then 94 NYR, and lower then the NYI dynasty ... Boston didn't make their top 25 teams all-time, nor should it) at 18-19.   He was also still money, when the Sedins were still trying to find their game against Turco, as a third liner.   So.   Maybe we should just put a pin on this, and wait until we see some more playoff performances.    Vegas, NSH, EDM, the past three series, not to be too critical, but i've seen better D performances from names that i'm sure people would get their backs up.    QHs has time in his favour, but back when Bure was 24, we all couldn't wait to see what he'd be like when he was 26-32 as well.    Rooting for him big time.   Same with the current core, it's turning into the first core since the Linden one, that seems to have the same post season potential. 

 

Having a Linden on your team, seemed to mean an automatic bye to the second round.   Against some excellent teams (often ones that went on to win the cup or that were considered contenders, CHI, St. Louis/Keenan, COL for example).   It's a great time to be a Canuck fan.   Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves though.  Cap era is tricky to navigate.   The Sedin teams might have been the best regular season teams, but didn't get it done in the post season.   Flopped badly twice after 2011.   The 94 team didn't, and well, imploded when they should have been all entering their primes.   Money issues for sure played into that, Bure wanted US dollars and hard to blame him, that's what others were getting.  WNP and the NORDs couldn't compete.   They folded.    

 

Ronning doesn't get enough love.  Smyl had a run.   What about him (wasn't he a third round pick?).    Peca has a great career, and in hindsight we should have kept him, instead of trading for Mogilny.   Linden, Ronning Peca would have been quite the center depth (one could argue Peca was as good as Kesler, except he was a brutal open ice hitter).  Hedican, Aucion and Ohlund core D's transitioning from Lumme and Babych.   Nedved price paid in full for 94.   

 

Anyways, sure hope you all got to see Bure.   Nothing like him before or since.    A one player line.   Gino lol.   God love him, i'm sure Bure could have had 75-80 that year if he didn't keep trying to set him up.   Not sure how many 2-1's it was.   McDavid, McKinnon, Crosby and Ovi have nothing on Bure, when it came to breakaway ability.   Why he was on the PK.  

 

Edited August 8 by IBatch

[Kevin Biestra]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

And what's this about "saving the franchise"?   Bure didn't do that.   He bailed from the franchise when it was in trouble.   Orca entertainment was brought in to bail out the Griffiths who were bleeding money due to salary disclosure (in fairness they weren't getting paid close to what they should have been, but it got out of hand five years later).   Monthly was here, our second bona-fide big star.   QHs has had one great regular season so far.   Bure had two back to back and as @Kevin Biestra stated above, would have won the Conn Smythe if Ronning and Lafayette made good on their wide open net game 7 shots.   Who scored both goals again that game?  Linden.  Who also holds all the post season records.

 

In addition to being an all time great final, 1994 had an all time great race for the Conn Smythe.  Really I wouldn't have been shocked with any of Bure, Linden, McLean, Leetch, Messier or Richter.

[IBatch]

22 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

In addition to being an all time great final, 1994 had an all time great race for the Conn Smythe.  Really I wouldn't have been shocked with any of Bure, Linden, McLean, Leetch, Messier or Richter.

Yep.   That's exactly how excellent the quality of competition was.   Most hate Messier, I hated the era, and the betrayals (Keenan, we all loved beating his Blues).   And his ego.   Anyways, he did give us a great compliment "this cup is extra special given the quality of opponent " .    Truly he wasn't a dick at all about us at the time, despite his the shit he pulled on Linden in game six, and Momesso (super dirty cross check to his back).   We weren't supposed to win, that wasn't the "script".     McLean gave us a win on his own in game one (team seemed to have butterflies) .   And of course against CAL with "the save" which is still famous in the hockey world.   

 

If it was up to me, the only numbers i'd retire would have been the Sedins, Linden and Smyl.  Bure would be next up though, he was that special.   Expect to see QHs up there one day for the same reasons,  even if all he does is finish up his current contract with us. 

 

As for 94, it's still regarded as the best final of the modern era (since expansion).  One goal separated the series, all those guys played key roles.        

 

Honestly the game Bure was ejected was the difference for me, he was flying that night, they couldn't contain him, already had one goal and looked like he was on a mission.    We'd of won in six otherwise.  

Edited August 8 by IBatch

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Bure played in an era where guys like Bryan Marchment made a career of his patented "knee on knee" hit.  Thing is, he wasn't the only player like that.  Scott Stevens was deadly with his then legal hit shots.  

 

QHs would only survive as a forward back then.   And need some serious linemates.  

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, iceman1964 said:

 I noticed a talk on Canucks army about  Quinn Hughes being the best draft pick in Canucks history or not. 

 It's actually hard to say, on one hand it is a debate for sure but on the other it becomes one that Bure made a bigger impact on the franchise at his arrival that essentially put us on the map as far as a franchise goes, so the debate can go up another level as well.

 So what is your opinion on it? 

 With some more thought, I guess you could bring up Daniel and Henrik as well but I think they might be a shade and I do mean a shade under Bure and Hughes but that can be debated too I suppose, they didn't put us on the map like Bure did but they sure had a huge hand on keeping us there.

 

 Based on draft position, Bure for sure.   Smyl's number is retired, 3rd round pick.   Kind of a goofy thing unless it's meant best ever player from the draft.   Too early, way too early.   We have 3 HHOFers from draft picks.    QHs likely has to play 10 seasons even with a Norris to get there.   Let's wait.   EPs rookie season he was getting compared to Gretzky.   Brock Brett Hull his rookie season.    QHs definitely made fools of some of us (including me), didn't think he was going to be this good this fast. 

Edited August 8 by IBatch

[Hammertime]

Bure steals the most headlines. Every kid wanted to rep 10 growing up playing hockey. While Hughes may reach higher acolades. Nobody has captivated the attention of the city they way Bure did. IMO.  

[Dr. Crossbar]

Pavel Bure: 1

Hughes: TBD

 

 

 

Edited August 8 by Dr. Crossbar

[iceman1964]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

 Based on draft position, Bure for sure.   Smyl's number is retired, 3rd round pick.   Kind of a goofy thing unless it's meant best ever player from the draft.   Too early, way too early.   We have 3 HHOFers from draft picks.    QHs likely has to play 10 seasons even with a Norris to get there.   Let's wait.   EPs rookie season he was getting compared to Gretzky.   Brock Brett Hull his rookie season.    QHs definitely made fools of some of us (including me), didn't think he was going to be this good this fast. 

I'd agree, Bure was incredible, I think he safely tops the list, he wasn't just elite, ultra elite, much like Gretzky, everytime Bure hit the ice he was a threat to score, almost like he was expected to score. 

I "almost" felt sorry for opposing goalies trying to stop him, and Dmen, he made some look like pylons he turned inside out. Man he was fun to watch. And who can forget the mother of all elbows? 

 It's too bad Bure and Almo didn't have more time to play together too.. 

 On the other side of it, QH isn't that but he is turning into someone, I too, didn't think he'd hit as fast as he's done so far, it seems like he just keeps getting better and better every year, and I don't see him stopping anytime soon, he's just got that drive that seems to spell out, this isn't good enough, I can do better..

Will he ever settle for this is as good as I can be?  I'm not sure, he seems too humble for that, by that I mean he seems always wanting to improve..

 I know Canuckland still has a hate on for JB but by far it was his best made move here, followed by Demko, EP  BB and signing JTM.

 Next season should be really fun to watch hey? I'am going to miss Zadorov though, I loved that guy! However I'm glad we picked up some added toughness we needed so we don't get pushed around as much like against the Preds

 

[NHLer]

15 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Not sure why you would say that at this point.  Bure got us to the final and almost won the Conn Smythe.  So far I don't have much evidence that Hughes is going to put it into an extra gear in the playoffs and some evidence that he will get "Phil Housleyed" into semi-ineffectiveness.

Exactly - got us to the final and almost won the Conn Smythe. Quinn will get us the Cup an win the Conn Smythe

[Ghostsof1915]

Quinn is actually the reason in my opinion that we still have a team in Vancouver. Vancouver was a laughing stock of a franchise until he took over. 

It wasn't just Bure. He made some of the best trades and did some of the best steals. His only weakness was drafting. But he did get us Ohlund. And Stojanov for Naslund was one of the greatest highway robberies in team history. 

 

Quinn made us into a competitive and winning team. 

[NHLer]

22 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Quinn is actually the reason in my opinion that we still have a team in Vancouver. Vancouver was a laughing stock of a franchise until he took over. 

It wasn't just Bure. He made some of the best trades and did some of the best steals. His only weakness was drafting. But he did get us Ohlund. And Stojanov for Naslund was one of the greatest highway robberies in team history. 

 

Quinn made us into a competitive and winning team. 

Confusing for a minute in a thread of Quinn v Bure LOL 

[-dlc-]

Honestly, this is impossible to decide. If they played the same position...maybe.

 

But both are/were equally important to this team and the next level play they bring/brought to it.

 

I had a few interactions with Bure and...love the guy. Was super awesome to me. This is my son with him back in the day.

 

So there's that.

[Ghostsof1915]

58 minutes ago, NHLer said:

Confusing for a minute in a thread of Quinn v Bure LOL 

Sorry

[Warhippy]

OK so this is hard to quantify because gd....

 

Bure, in this day and age he'd be making Ovechkin and Matthew's goal scoring look tragic.  Goalies are bigger better and play more athletically, but his ability to pick the pocket anywhere on the net at speed was literally second to none.  The greatest goal scorers and goalies of the 80s/90s were all in awe of what he could do at the speed he did it.  He'd be a 70 goal player in his prime here and alongside Petey or Miller...gd

 

But

 

Hughes is something else.  He's the best skater this team has ever seen and he produces assists like H Sedin.  While he doesn't have a solid slap shot or decent clapper or wrist shot (yet) his ability to read a play at speed and make those transition passes and find an open seam for a quality first assist are the best this team has ever seen.  

 

This team has seen some talented goal scorers but it has never before seen anything like Hughes and 9/10 times a GM would take a Hughes over a Bure and they'd bite their nails every single time they made that pick but would be happier having that weapon on the blue line

[Devron]

How about Quinn now and Bure before

[Seventy7]

22 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

lol.  Beauty goal… also love how there are multiple obvious penalties… from the initial hook, to the interference pick at the point, to the leg hang near trip Bure just avoids.

 

If Bure played in today’s game, he’d be right there with McDavid and MacKinnon as the leagues top scoring threat. 

Edited August 8 by Seventy7

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Quinn is actually the reason in my opinion that we still have a team in Vancouver. Vancouver was a laughing stock of a franchise until he took over. 

It wasn't just Bure. He made some of the best trades and did some of the best steals. His only weakness was drafting. But he did get us Ohlund. And Stojanov for Naslund was one of the greatest highway robberies in team history. 

 

Quinn made us into a competitive and winning team. 

Laughing stock is maybe going a little too far.   The league considered the 82 team full of character, and it helped Quin with his trades, those teams wanted to add our character and were willing to give some very good players for it.    Quin took the approach of instead of 1-1 trades, with guys like Sundstrom and Butcher, so 2-1 or even 3-1, they had the star power already (St. Louis for example).    As for Quins drafting, it's a lot better then your giving him credit for although it wasn't spectacular (Antoski played instead of Gino during the run, a much faster skater, Stajanov were duds), Linden,  Bure, Nedved, Aucion (was 4th for Norris after he left in NYI and tied Orr's power play goals record during the Keenan era), Strudwick, Sopel, Ohlund - that's most of the WCE era's D right there, aside from a bit of McCAbe, and of course Jovo.   There are others too, that's just off the top of my head.   He didn't miss with his high picks except for Stajanov (7th? or was it 9th something like that) and found more in the later rounds then JB. On par with Burke anyways.    Nonis one boffo draft, then 3 duds in a row followed by 5 duds by MG until Horvat.   Certainly found a lot more then Hutton.   For sure the best trader in franchise history.    3 of the guys in the rafters were from Quin era, two drafted, one HHOF.  Oh yeah and Mike Peca for me anyways, was at least on par with Kesler.   Mogilny was great and all, in hindsight should have kept Ronning and Peca though.  One of the best open ice hitter's in the league, went to the final, Captain of the Sabres ... man we sure could of used his help in the WCE era.   

 

Personally, felt Peca was better than Kesler.   Like Kesler, killed his body.   Like Konstantinov, destroyed much bigger men with his brutal hits.   His job was to shut down the Yzerman's, Sakics,  Jagr,  Mario's, Lindros, Sundins'etc of the league.   And took to it almost right away.   Took a toll, played the toughest era of hockey.   And always in the Selke consideration. 

Edited August 8 by IBatch

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Seventy7 said:

lol.  Beauty goal… also love how there are multiple obvious penalties… from the initial hook, to the interference pick at the point, to the leg hang near trip Bure just avoids.

 

If Bure played in today’s game, he’d be right there with McDavid and MacKinnon as the leagues top scoring threat. 

Bure was scoring against some of the best ever to play the game (don't think that's Brodeur, but didn't matter).   Roy's save percentage kept going up and up ... not like he was getting better just before retirement, he was next level from his first to last game.  And his best performance was 1993 Habs last cup.   Beflour, Hasek... didn't matter.   Can't remember how many goals he scored in Nagano, but he was arguably the best forward in the tournament.   Bure would make mincemeat out of the goalies today too. 

[Kevin Biestra]

44 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Bure was scoring against some of the best ever to play the game (don't think that's Brodeur, but didn't matter).   Roy's save percentage kept going up and up ... not like he was getting better just before retirement, he was next level from his first to last game.  And his best performance was 1993 Habs last cup.   Beflour, Hasek... didn't matter.   Can't remember how many goals he scored in Nagano, but he was arguably the best forward in the tournament.   Bure would make mincemeat out of the goalies today too. 

 

Bure was 9 goals in 6 games at those Olympics.  Perhaps the only bigger what if when it comes to careers and injuries is Bobby Orr.  Bure in his prime right now would be 70 goals guaranteed and a good chance of 80 or more and a decent chance of that multiple times.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

24 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Bure was 9 goals in 6 games at those Olympics.  Perhaps the only bigger what if when it comes to careers and injuries is Bobby Orr.  Bure in his prime right now would be 70 goals guaranteed and a good chance of 80 or more and a decent chance of that multiple times.

Another thing that doesn't get mentioned much is the state of medical science even as "late" as the 70s.  Compare that to the advancements in the treatment of knee injuries today to then (heh, well as long as Canucks doctors aren't involved ).

 

 

[iceman1964]

On 8/8/2024 at 3:19 PM, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Another thing that doesn't get mentioned much is the state of medical science even as "late" as the 70s.  Compare that to the advancements in the treatment of knee injuries today to then (heh, well as long as Canucks doctors aren't involved ).

 

 

Definitely agree with that, even later on was so much better, I remember when naslund went down and they showed his knee injury x-rays  and I thought his career was completely done, and fortunate to walk properly ever again but they put it back together and he played again, that was a shocker to be sure.

[SnakeDoctor]

That’s easy.  BURE

[JeremyCuddles]

This is a tough one. Bure helped take an underdog team to the finals. Where they had a pretty decent chance at it. Hughes hasn't quite done anything like that yet. Hughes is also smashing every single d-man record or on a torrent pace to smash all our d-men records, and is only 24 (soo-to-be 25). Comparison feels unfair cause one, they played in different eras and two cause Quinn has roughly 10 years left of hockey, good hockey. Comparing a finished career to one that is still pretty young is difficult.

[Guntrix]

Bure may have been more of a game changer but I’d still take Hughes.

I don’t think people realize how rare it is to draft a bonafide #1 D with quarterback abilities, and also have the possibility of keeping him (barring disaster) for his entire career. At the rate he’s scoring, and considering he’s only 24, I don’t think any other Canucks defenseman will ever break the records he’s going to set for a very, very, long time.

Edited August 13 by Guntrix