Potential RD Waiver Claims?

[sashimi]

4 minutes ago, Gurn said:

did you have like way too much coffee today?

Honestly, not a fan of this type of dialogue.

"Mommy mommy, the big mean fact man hurt me with his words that aren't conducive with my nonsensical way of viewing the world."

[Huggy Bear]

2 hours ago, smithers joe said:

are anyone on wavers that are hard to play against wingers?

Great question, and wouldn’t be surprised if this a priority for PA

[Gurn]

3 minutes ago, sashimi said:

"Mommy mommy, the big mean fact man hurt me with his words that aren't conducive with my nonsensical way of viewing the world."

I won't be seeing you till New Years Day, so you take care of yourself.

[Huggy Bear]

5 minutes ago, sashimi said:

"Mommy mommy, the big mean fact man hurt me with his words that aren't conducive with my nonsensical way of viewing the world."

There’s a way to make your points without disrespecting other members, and derailing the thread.

[cripplereh]

7 minutes ago, sashimi said:

I'm not trying to do anything but get you to realize how you analyze things and form your opinions is flawed.

 

There is undeniable data on one side. And on your side there's... hope? wants? fluff? magic? 

 

There is no quantifiable justification for your views other than "I saw this with my own eyes and I think I'm right so I'm right."

 

That must be a very scary way to live. I'm just trying to get you to think a little harder. You should be grateful.

Ok here's how I see things.

 

We all want playoffs.

 

Players for years now are better at a young age.Older players are not as great as they used to be.

 

So a high skilled guy who is young should be given the chance sooner then later.

 

If McWard shows he is ready you still want him in the AHL.I get that 

 

Me I want him getting the start.

 

Simple fact us not our call.

 

Worse thing that could happen is he starts struggles and gets sent down.Maybe by then Bear is ready and we sign him.

 

So either way it's a win ad McWard would know more of what's expected from him.

[sashimi]

Just now, Huggy Bear said:

There’s a way to make your points without disrespecting other members, and derailing the thread.

Fair. I was being a bit excessively mean. 

 

Anyways, does anyone know much about Cale Fleury? Seems like a decent fit.  

 

 

[Huggy Bear]

13 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Would definitely pick up Marcus Bjork if he is available.  He would be an instant upgrade on any one of our RHD other than Hronek.  Columbus has too many RHD, so they will need to move at least one, maybe two of them.  

 

If David Jiricek makes the team then Andrew Peeke might be available as well.  Allvin would probably be all over Bjork as he is Swedish.  6'4" RHD Swedish defencemen are pretty rare...

Columbus, Carolina and Vegas are teams with enough depth on D to send quality players through waivers. 
 

That said, they’d have to make it past Anaheim, SJS and Chicago, so….I’ll remain cautiously optimistic.

 

Bjork looks intriguing for sure…

 

https://sportsforecaster.com/nhl/p/1021328/Marcus_Bjork#:~:text=He is smart and poised,Potential%3A Two-way defenseman.

 

[sashimi]

1 minute ago, cripplereh said:

Ok here's how I see things.

 

We all want playoffs.

 

Players for years now are better at a young age.Older players are not as great as they used to be.

 

So a high skilled guy who is young should be given the chance sooner then later.

 

If McWard shows he is ready you still want him in the AHL.I get that 

 

Me I want him getting the start.

 

Simple fact us not our call.

 

Worse thing that could happen is he starts struggles and gets sent down.Maybe by then Bear is ready and we sign him.

 

So either way it's a win ad McWard would know more of what's expected from him.

I'm all for this and I think that is actually probably the plan. Have McWard and some other guys fill-in until Bear or someone else can be added.

 

I have no problem with that. But suggesting McWard is already a better player than Bear... well we've already talked about that

[Huggy Bear]

25 minutes ago, sashimi said:

Fair. I was being a bit excessively mean. 

 

Anyways, does anyone know much about Cale Fleury? Seems like a decent fit.  

 

 

from sportsforecaster

 

SCOUTING REPORT

Plays a mean but clean game, with a good combination of puck-moving skills, mobility and size. Will probably never be a major offensive force at the NHL level, though he was a decent point producer in junior hockey and the AHL. Plays with smarts and strength in his own zone, and has the ability to play as a top-four blueliner but must continue to improve.

Long Range Potential:Promising defenseman.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Huggy Bear

[Naslund]

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[Huggy Bear]

4 minutes ago, Naslund said:

H

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Liking the new username.  So clean…

[sashimi]

I heard this kid mentioned on the radio as a "must claim" for the Canucks if he gets waived by Carolina and makes it to Van's waiver spot. 

 

BC guy, so that's cool. Apparently he's pretty good and has been stuck behind the extremely deep Hurricanes blueline. They are stacked. Don't know much him about as a player but definitely worth keeping an eye on his name. 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by sashimi

[Huggy Bear]

59 minutes ago, sashimi said:

I heard this kid mentioned on the radio as a "must claim" for the Canucks if he gets waived by Carolina and makes it to Van's waiver spot. 

 

BC guy, so that's cool. Apparently he's pretty good and has been stuck behind the extremely deep Hurricanes blueline. They are stacked. Don't know much him about as a player but definitely worth keeping an eye on his name. 

 

 

https://sportsforecaster.com/nhl/p/26255/Dylan_Coghlan
 

looks like an offensive Dman, but decent size and BC boy. 

[puckstopper]

Which ex-canuck does Huggy bear remind you of? Some of us where lucky enough to

Have seen Jyrki Lumme do his thing for years. He's even made a pylon like Dana Murzyn

seem reliable defensively. He was a pretty tough customer as well. I'd make our captain

watch Jyrki highlights all night and day. I said that since his first game, We got our Lumme back!

 

Quinn is slightly better than Lumme was and these are two different eras. We wait it out to find 

Huggies "Murzyn". 

[Naslund]

2 hours ago, Huggy Bear said:

Liking the new username.  So clean…

[toochmahgooch]

There is always dmen who force teams hand every year. Might be a trade to be had. 

 

I would look to Nashville personally

[Gawdzukes]

7 hours ago, cripplereh said:

So when a player looks ready you still would rather go out and trade for one?

 

McWard in games so far looked better then Bear ever was , so makes 0 sense resigning Bear unless there's an actual injury

 

I totally agree with this statement. I don't really care what a spreadsheet or advanced stats say I judge a player first and foremost by how they play the game when I'am watching them. The game is played on the ice not a piece of paper. Not a fan of Bear's game whatsoever. He's horrible behind the net and at playing the body in any situation. He makes awful reads and brutal giveaways and he's not very big for a defenceman. He's a decent passer but got by riding Quinn's coattails, but honestly who wouldn't.

 

I heard some statement about Bear being our 2nd best RD defender if signed but that's going backwards as an organization in my view. You could probably say the same thing about Hamonic or Stetcher, but I don't want to run out and trade for those guys either. Our goal should be to get better, not running back half ass options that didn't even work well last year. In case some people were absent we got our asses handed to us last year with Bear playing. I am really hoping we don't sign him.

 

If we sign Bear in January it's most likely our playoff chances are shot anyway. If we are doing well, what's the point of signing him unless it's for depth. He's also going to be fresh off surgery. Hard pass for me.

 

Also a huge red flag for me with the contract he was looking for. He strikes me as overly cocky for a marginal NHLer. Seems to think he's way better than he actually is.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[sashimi]

8 hours ago, puckstopper said:

Which ex-canuck does Huggy bear remind you of? Some of us where lucky enough to

Have seen Jyrki Lumme do his thing for years. He's even made a pylon like Dana Murzyn

seem reliable defensively. He was a pretty tough customer as well. I'd make our captain

watch Jyrki highlights all night and day. I said that since his first game, We got our Lumme back!

 

Quinn is slightly better than Lumme was and these are two different eras. We wait it out to find 

Huggies "Murzyn". 

Hughes is more than slightly better than any Canucks defenseman ever. 

[sashimi]

5 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

I totally agree with this statement. I don't really care what a spreadsheet or advanced stats say I judge a player first and foremost by how they play the game when I'am watching them. The game is played on the ice not a piece of paper. Not a fan of Bear's game whatsoever. He's horrible behind the net and at playing the body in any situation. He makes awful reads and brutal giveaways and he's not very big for a defenceman. He's a decent passer but got by riding Quinn's coattails, but honestly who wouldn't.

 

I heard some statement about Bear being our 2nd best RD defender if signed but that's going backwards as an organization in my view. You could probably say the same thing about Hamonic or Stetcher, but I don't want to run out and trade for those guys either. Our goal should be to get better, not running back half ass options that didn't even work well last year. In case some people were absent we got our asses handed to us last year with Bear playing. I am really hoping we don't sign him.

 

If we sign Bear in January it's most likely our playoff chances are shot anyway. If we are doing well, what's the point of signing him unless it's for depth. He's also going to be fresh off surgery. Hard pass for me.

 

Also a huge red flag for me with the contract he was looking for. He strikes me as overly cocky for a marginal NHLer. Seems to think he's way better than he actually is.

 

Tell me you don't understand advanced stats without telling me you don't understand advanced stats. 

[Jeremy Hronek]

18 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

This sounds like the OEL deal all over again.  Benning is no longer in charge of us.  We don't have cap space to add a $9.5 million Dman for the next 7 years.  Myers is off the books next year so we can replace him with somebody cheap, maybe Bjork.  Willander will be a cheap ELC contract for 3 years which is what we need.  Same with Lekkerimaki who will probably replace Boeser at some point.  And then D-Petey as well.  We will need these cheap ELC contracts to offset the OEL dead money as well as Petey's new deal.

 

 

@Biff Tannen,  @King Heffy

 

@Elias Pettersson

 

I'll try and respond to your guys' points with this post (apologies in advance to others if I've missed your response as my time is limited).

 

Here is why I didn't quite feel that a Seth Jones-OEL comparison/analogy was quite 1:1 despite the fact that both players' contracts are/were set to expire at 35/36 respectively.

 

1.  Stylistic differences:  While OEL was mistakingly pegged as a two-way defensemen by Benning (and perhaps OEL was this type of player during his peak years), the truth of the matter is that OEL was an OFD (Offensive defenseman), and had been an OFD for most of his career. Why is this relevant?  Because - his stylistic similarity to Quinn Hughes made it a mismatch to have him playing alongside Quinn to make a super pairing.  Same thing with Nate Schmidt.  Benning had assumed that Schmidt was a two-way guy but he was more of an OFD.    Seth Jones on the other hand, is a two-way defenseman.  

 

2. Physicality: Jones can play physically and with grit which would complement Hughes' style. 

 

3. OEL and Seth Jones' sub-par play - differences.  When the Canucks acquired OEL, OEL had been playing poorly for a few years (father had passed?  I can't remember).  Whatever the case, OEL needed a change of scenery.  When OEL first got here, he actually played pretty well for us in the two way role.  He carried Myers in that second pairing role (although OEL tailed off in the final 1/3rd of the 21/22 season).  Last season, he was injured most of the summer and didn't have a full training session.  Hence, he was sub-par last season.   

 

Seth Jones on the other hand has had very good underlying numbers in Chicago despite playing on such a bad team. In fact, the only reason why Jones appeared to be struggling in Chicago initially was because he was paired with Jack Johnson.  Once paired with brother Caleb however, Seth was dramatically different.  

 

So - can you imagine Jones with Hughes?.......under Tocchet's structured system?  (as opposed to whatever fruity system was being employed in Chicago last season).   

 

So that was my logic in wanting to bring in Seth Jones from a few days ago.

 

Now having said ALL THAT, I agree with @Elias Pettersson that bringing in Seth Jones wouldn't work from a long term cap perspective since we will need money to re-sign Pettersson and Hronek, combined with the fact that OEL's buyout will rear its ugly head in a few years (4 million cap hit for two seasons).  So with that in mind, I also agree that Jones' cap hit wouldn't work for us and we'll need guys like Boeser's and Myers' contracts to come clean off the books.  

 

While I like poster Elias Pettersson's idea of making a waiver claim for Bjork (and taking a calculated risk on other cheap guys), my biggest concern is that the Canucks could be at risk in "spinning their wheels" over these next few years and not really gaining any significant ground.  

 

 3 years from now

-Demko will be a 30 year old UFA

-Miller will likely no longer be at his peak

-Kuzmenko will have become a UFA in the year prior and might be looking for a long term contract at this point (he's not a young guy)

-Hughes will only have one year left on his deal

 

So - even if we are successful in re-signing both Pettersson and Hronek in the long term (which is not guaranteed by the way), what can we realistically achieve over these next 3 seasons given that we have albatross contracts such as Boeser and Myers, combined with OEL's ugly buyout cap penalty coming up 2-3 years from now).   

 

Looking at our current defense, even with a fully healthy line-up (which as we know, is a rarity during the season), you have Soucy slated to play with Hughes and Cole slated to be a 2nd pairing guy.  On a good team, Soucy would be a #4 while Cole would be a #5 guy on a 3rd pairing.  

 

I hate to admit it, but I'm not sure if I see a "pathway" or a "window" for this team in which we make the jump to elite hood over these next 3 seasons given our cap challenges to come.  

 

 

[aGENT]

18 hours ago, Huggy Bear said:

Columbus, Carolina and Vegas are teams with enough depth on D to send quality players through waivers. 
 

That said, they’d have to make it past Anaheim, SJS and Chicago, so….I’ll remain cautiously optimistic.

 

Bjork looks intriguing for sure…

 

https://sportsforecaster.com/nhl/p/1021328/Marcus_Bjork#:~:text=He is smart and poised,Potential%3A Two-way defenseman.

 

 

And this is why you see trades for players bound for waivers despite being able to get them for free.

 

Given our needs for depth physical wingers and RD... I'm VERY interested to see how waivers goes this year... There's some teams with deep blue lines that may be forced to waive solid young D (Carolina, Vegas, Nashville, Columbus off the top of my head).

Edited September 30, 2023 by aGENT

[Canucklehead44]

On 9/28/2023 at 11:13 PM, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

None of those guys will move the needle for us. The Canucks already have enough bottom 6 defenders and already have a #4 defenseman in Soucy, and #5 calibre defensemen in Cole (and perhaps Hirose).  They also have a #2 in Hronek, but Hronek isn't a stylistic fit with Hughes and so Hronek needs to be playing with Cole or Soucy (ideally Soucy, to which Cole would move to the 3rd pairing).

 

What the Canucks really and truly need is another top pairing RD to play alongside Quinn Hughes.  Soucy is a good defenseman but he's a #4 calibre guy.  

 

None of those waiver wire pick up would help us in any way. 

 

 

I agree, but on paper our depth would be:

#1 Hughes 

#2 Hronek

#3 Myers

#4 Cole

#5 Soucy

#6 Wolanin / Hirose

#7 Irwin

 

While Myers is overpaid as a #3 he also way under performs. If we had signed Severson in that spot at that money our D would look a lot better. 

I am a big fan of Ethan Bear. He was by far our second best man last year (not saying much) but was very solid. In Edmonton one season he was near top in the league for even strength ice time.

 

Ethan Bear isn’t really a good special teams guy but is capable #3 5 on 5. I think from a special teams perspective we are ok so I hope we bring Bear back when he is healthy 

 

 

[Gawdzukes]

7 hours ago, sashimi said:

 

Tell me you don't understand advanced stats without telling me you don't understand advanced stats. 

 

I get advanced stats. Geez you really think you're smart hey and like to call people down. Really advanced lol.

 

I prefer to judge players by watching how they play personally. I'll tell you what I'll pick my team by hand/eye and you get the top fancy stats team. I guarantee my team will destroy your team. I remember doing this back once about 10 years ago and Alex Steen was the best player in the league and Crosby didn't even make the team.

 

Advanced stats are a tool. They don't replace using your eyeballs or understanding the basics of hockey. I always have to laugh at people that struggle with this concept. As if they are desperately trying to find someway they can tell how good a hockey player is. It's like anything lol, open your eyes, look, use your brain, and assess.

 

Now regarding Bear, people are allowed to have differing opinions aren't they? I watched all Bears 61 games last year minus maybe 3 or 4 games I missed. I simply don't like his play. Likely no amount of advanced stats will change that. You are free to have a different opinion. If I was running the team I would be looking elsewhere. I think it's silly to put a guy on the team simply because he has a high corsi. However, I will give you a chance to educate me and show your superior knowledge. Why don't you provide a synopsis of the advanced stats in question, your methodology, and show me why you're beating the drum for this guy. Maybe I'll come around on Bear if your stats and evidence are as strong as you imply.

 

Also, regarding advanced stats I read an article once from a group of NHL coaches a couple years ago. They said they use advanced stats but in no way do they replace old fashioned eye and brain judgement. They also say some of the advanced stats the public sees are fairly worthless, and they actually use their own stats based on their own metrics, gathered by their own sources. The example I think he used was high danger scoring chances. He said it's basically worthless because they don't measure things like whether the goalie had to move from one side of the net to the other (which is a huge factor in their eyes), whether the player was tied up, or off balance, and other similar factors.

 

Advanced stats are very imperfect because of they way they are gathered. They take one stat like the amount of dump ins vs carry ins and try to make a bunch of assumptions without providing any context along with it.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[Huggy Bear]

37 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

And this is why you see trades for players bound for waivers despite being able to get them for free.

 

Given our needs for depth physical wingers and RD... I'm VERY interested to see how waivers goes this year... There's some teams with deep blue lines that may be forced to waive solid young D (Carolina, Vegas, Nashville, Columbus off the top of my head).

I’d love to see a trade like this before the 11th.

Let’s go Allvin…put down the shammy and pick up the phone!
 

@Alflives am I doing this right?

[aGENT]

https://canucksarmy.com/news/should-canucks-waiver-wire-shore-rhd-depth-preseason

Whom, you might ask?
Here’s some of our best guesses:

Conor Timmins
Toronto Maple Leafs, 25, 6’2”, 202lb
The Leafs already have Timothy Liljegren and John Klingberg as RHDs, plus TJ Brodie and Jake McCabe, who frequently play on their off-side. Timmins is ostensibly the 3RD or 4RD, but his spot isn’t certain, and that’s exacerbated by the Leafs’ cap issues. They might run with just six defenders on their roster, or they might feel the need to swap out Timmins’ $1.1 million salary for someone making closer to the minimum.
For the Canucks’ part, Timmins is a not-small two-way defender who put up a shocking amount of points in a short stint last year. With his injury troubles, he has every reason to be a late bloomer, and might just be.

 

Johnathan Kovacevic
Montreal Canadiens, 26, 6’5”, 223lb
Kovacevic is a big RHD from Grimsby, Ontario, so that’s already reason be excited for the Canucks’ faithful. He was a waiver claim from Winnipeg who played well enough for the Canadiens’ last year, but may wind up on waivers again this year as he’s overtaken by youth.
Basically, Kovacevic should make their roster, but if the Habs decide to keep either David Reinbacher or Justin Barron around, it will come at the cost of Kovacevic’s job.
He’s nothing fancy, but he is at least capable of defending at the NHL level.

Brayden Pachal
Vegas Golden Knights, 24, 6’1”, 204lb
Pachal was along for the ride with the Stanley Cup champions last year, but he’s perhaps better known for being named captain of his AHL squad at the tender age of 22. Now 24, Pachal is still pretty young to be potentially hitting the waiver wire, and he’d be a quality pickup from a franchise that has issues hanging on to talent.
Pachal will probably make the Golden Knights’ roster based on his experience and low salary, but if he’s overtaken by a prospect like Kaedan Korczak, that could change in a hurry. He’s a solid all-around defender with a history of winning, and there should be multiple teams interested.

Ty Emberson
New York Rangers, 23, 6’1”, 195lb
This 23-year-old former third rounder of Arizona has no real chance of cracking the deep New York blueline, but he’s developed fairly well at the AHL level as a defensive defender with some occasional offensive pop. His age and strong AHL playoffs last season make him an intriguing candidate with more long-term potential than the average waiver claim.

Lassi Thomson
Ottawa Senators, 23, 6’0”, 190lb
The 19th overall pick in the 2019 NHL Entry Draft is out of waiver exemption having just turned 23 a few days ago. Thomson hasn’t exactly given the Senators a reason to keep him around, and he’s been cleanly passed by younger, better prospects, but for another organization, it might be worth going back to the well one more time with Lassi.
He’s an offensively-gifted blueliner with excellent skating abilities and some still-existent holes in his defensive game. He’s also got a good point-shot, which could be seen as an asset to the Canucks.

Dylan Coghlan
Carolina Hurricanes, 25, 6’2”, 208lb
The 25-year-old from Duncan has had the misfortune of starting his NHL career trying to break in to two of the deepest bluelines in Vegas and Carolina. He’s run out of waiver exemption now, and that probably has him hitting the wire despite getting into 105 NHL games across the past three seasons.
Coghlan is mostly lauded for his offensive attributes and puck-moving abilities, but his defensive game is said to have improved. It’d almost have to, being a member of the Hurricanes.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by aGENT