[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks Vs. Edmonton Soilers, Rogers Arena, September 30, @ 6PM PST, Preseason Game #4 Redemption

[Canuckle]

26 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I don't give a **** about other teams, I'm specifically referred to *THIS* team.

Which is likely why you're making it out to be more than it is. It happens around the league with prospects/ahl cuspers all the time. Forsling is barely worthy of a footnote in Vancouver. It happens.

 

Where's Tyler Madden at? Hell, how about Adam Gaudette? But somehow the tiny few that later become something, or in Forslings case, MUCH later, its supposedly this big thing.

 

It's crap.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Canuckle

[NewbieCanuckFan]

5 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

Which is likely why you're making it out to be more than it is. It happens around the league with prospects/ahl cuspers all the time. Forsling is barely worthy of a footnote in Vancouver. It happens.

 

Where's Tyler Madden at? Hell, how about Adam Gaudette? But somehow the tiny few that later become something, or in Forslings case, MUCH later, its supposedly this big thing.

 

It's crap.

When you come into an organization with few prospects/bare farm system as Jim Benning did, you aren't doing yourself any favors by not keeping them.  

[Canuckle]

25 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Sure guys drafted that far are bound to have warts (else they likely would've been drafted earlier).  But he had real skill.  Just hasn't been able to 'take that next step'.  You still take chances on these kind of prospects even if most of them will likely fail.  Better to 'swing for the fences' at at round than go for a 'safe pick' that likely will be no better than a minor leaguer (if that).  Imho.

Yeah. I don't knock the pick at all. Even I was big on the guy!

And to go back to the drafting philosophy there, I think it was GM Barry Trotz that said something similar this summer before the draft...

Found it:

 

"Barry Trotz, on the upcoming draft, says he told his scouts to “take some swings, take some high end swings on some guys” Then adds: “I can find you 3rd line, 4th line guys, no problem. Go get me some guys that get people out of their seats.”

 

Rathbone had that skillset. But for a plethora of reason just hasn't worked out.

[Canuckle]

1 minute ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

When you come into an organization with few prospects/bare farm system as Jim Benning did, you aren't doing yourself any favors by not keeping them.  

The Forsling trade, is and will always will be low hanging fruit.

 

It happens all the time whether drafted by cup contender or rebuilding team. It happens. 4 different teams. 7 years. Even cleared waivers. Remember that.

 

31 other teams didn't claim him. They apparently did not recognize the GENIIUS that is Gustav Forsling either.

 

Just low hanging fruit, man.

[Jack Gordon]

6 hours ago, -dlc- said:

How'd I miss this? Oilers are complete trash. They're out to injure players and it's not cool at all.

 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Just now, Canuckle said:

The Forsling trade, is and will always will be low hanging fruit.

 

It happens all the time whether drafted by cup contender or rebuilding team. It happens. 4 different teams. 7 years. Even cleared waivers. Remember that.

 

31 other teams didn't claim him. They apparently did not recognize the GENIIUS that is Gustav Forsling either.

 

Just low hanging fruit, man.

Probably dealt him because Ron Delorme (the amateur scout that found Elias) didn't like him.

 

Frankly I'll take my chances on our European amateur scouts (Gradin & co.) over our domestic (Canadian) amateur scouts.

[Junkyard Dog]

Rough 1st but we took over in the 2nd as we should have with the better roster. 

 

They did their job as they needed to. Good building block. 

 

PDG looked good with Boeser/Miller. Could be a good Pearson replacement if he can play like he did last night consistently.

 

 

[Johnny]

10 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

Which is likely why you're making it out to be more than it is. It happens around the league with prospects/ahl cuspers all the time. Forsling is barely worthy of a footnote in Vancouver. It happens.

 

Where's Tyler Madden at? Hell, how about Adam Gaudette? But somehow the tiny few that later become something, or in Forslings case, MUCH later, its supposedly this big thing.

 

It's crap.

It seems bad trades are more noteworthy than good ones

 

Naslund trade

Erhoff trade

Courtnall ronning trade

Bertuzzi trade

 

these are just off the top of my head clear winners

 

in the forsling trade, chicago also lost out

 

just like however many teams ‘it is what it is’ mccann played for

 

But trying to convince someone they are wrong is a tough task

[NewbieCanuckFan]

5 minutes ago, Johnny said:

It seems bad trades are more noteworthy than good ones

 

Naslund trade

Erhoff trade

Courtnall ronning trade

Bertuzzi trade

 

these are just off the top of my head clear winners

 

in the forsling trade, chicago also lost out

 

just like however many teams ‘it is what it is’ mccann played for

 

But trying to convince someone they are wrong is a tough task

They traded Forsling for a guy that couldn't skate at the NHL level (if anybody actually bothered to watch Clendening play).  You can get away with that at the minor league level (or possibly even as a forward) but not at the NHL level.

Edited October 1, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Goal_thecup]

7 minutes ago, Jack Gordon said:

 

Too bad the stamp gamble didn't payoff.

At least you didn't end up with a tramp stamp like this:

[Canuckle]

35 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Yeah I'm willing to cut him some slack because I think he had pressure from ownership. 

100% he did.  It was ownership mandate to "stay competitive" to keep asses in the seats for the duration. But welcome to capitalism, right. Not too many owners are willing to purposely  throw money in a garbage can driving their fans and advertisers away by  icing or fielding a losing shitty product nobody wants to watch. 

 

And if it wasn't Benning doing their bidding, it would have been someone else.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 minute ago, Canuckle said:

100% he did.  It was ownership mandate to "stay competitive" to keep asses in the seats for the duration. But welcome to capitalism, right. Not too many owners are willing to purposely  throw money in a garbage can driving their fans and advertisers away by  icing or fielding a losing shitty product nobody wants to watch. 

 

And if it wasn't Benning doing their bidding, it would have been someone else.

Might've been different had Pat Quinn been around (as planned) to be the President and/or 'behind the scenes mentor type'.

[Canuckle]

7 minutes ago, Johnny said:

It seems bad trades are more noteworthy than good ones

 

Naslund trade

Erhoff trade

Courtnall ronning trade

Bertuzzi trade

 

these are just off the top of my head clear winners

 

in the forsling trade, chicago also lost out

 

just like however many teams ‘it is what it is’ mccann played for

 

But trying to convince someone they are wrong is a tough task

 

Yeah. Exactly. It happens all the time. Nobody has a crystal ball. But hindsight being 20/20 and all...

 

It just bothers me when people try to use these things as some slight or hate on this or that when it's just a normal part of sports franchises, whatever the sport may be.  Focus strictly on the bad few rather than the shit ton of other prospects that get moved and go absolutely fucking nowhere. It's an extremely dishonest approach, whether intentional or not.

[Goal_thecup]

2 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

100% he did.  It was ownership mandate to "stay competitive" to keep asses in the seats for the duration. But welcome to capitalism, right. Not too many owners are willing to purposely  throw money in a garbage can driving their fans and advertisers away by  icing or fielding a losing shitty product nobody wants to watch. 

 

And if it wasn't Benning doing their bidding, it would have been someone else.

Ah yes.  Asses Management. 

Like JR's personal mandate to Manage Up and keep the asses in their seats, and leave the team to him.

[Canuckle]

3 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Might've been different had Pat Quinn been around (as planned) to be the President and/or 'behind the scenes mentor type'.

And they would have fired his ass too. Just like Linden.

 

Canucks Sports and Entertainment Group had a financial plan in place and that was that. "Stay competitive" was the mandate.

 

Didn't really matter who their monkey was.  Just happened to be Jim Benning and James Weisbrod.

 

Heck, I'm sure there are many moves or decisions they themselves would rather have done differently... but what can you do, right? Tell your employer "no" to something they want you to do. See how long the person lasts in the job. Like rock and a hard place, you know?

[NewbieCanuckFan]

6 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

And they would have fired his ass too. Just like Linden.

 

Canucks Sports and Entertainment Group had a financial plan in place and that was that. "Stay competitive" was the mandate.

 

Didn't really matter who their monkey was.  Just happened to be Jim Benning and James Weisbrod.

 

Heck, I'm sure there are many moves or decisions they themselves would rather have done differently... but what can you do, right? Tell your employer "no" to something they want you to do. See how long the person lasts in the job. Like rock and a hard place, you know?

Thing is, they weren't really "competitive" though (missing the playoffs 5 of the 7 seasons Benning was GM).  I'm guessing season ticket renewals had more of an impact on the owners decisions.

Edited October 1, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Outsiders]

Went to the game last night as I wanted to see a game not from a TV screen. I found a noticed a lot more being in person.

 

My thoughts:

 

Myers - good lord he is complete chaos out there. Every time he went on the ice it was an experience. I cannot wait until we get rid of him and can't believe he's carved out a 1000 game career. Scary 

 

Boeser - The fall off on his game is just something else. He'll be lucky to score 20 this season the way he's going. Always laughing and joking around out there. He is the last "country club" member that needs to go.

 

PDG - Man I shit on the guy but he's doing something. No way he should be in the top 6 (which is why I think he bothers me) but gotta give credit where it is due. Making the most of it.

 

Aman/Stud - were ok but for a fourth line I'd like to see some sandpaper. Joshua isn't that guy, friendly giant. Find one on waivers. 

 

Cole/Soucy - Played fine nothing fancy which is what we need. Physically needs to be upped but I assume they are saving that for reg season.

 

McWard - I thought he was our second best D after Hughes in terms of moving the puck. He was making all the right reads and was vocal out there. His transition game is very good and kept it simple. Reminds me of a young Ben Hutton. I thought 1 or 2 of the penalties he took were soft "pre-season" calls by the refs. Tough break for the kid. Whether he makes the team or not, he looks to be a good future player for us. 

 

Hronek - didn't really notice him. Not sure if thats a good thing or bad. We gave up a lot for him. Hoping his offensive game translates here.

 

 

Team as a whole we are way too soft. I know it was pre-season but we have to play heavier. Some guys looked like they were out there for a skate. You noticed it. I just don't see the killer instinct in our group. It might be another long season if toughness/grit isn't addressed. 

[Canuckle]

8 minutes ago, Goal_thecup said:

Asses Management.

 

Lol. Succinct.

 

I don't think it's the same with Jim Rutherford tho, tbh. He wouldn't tolerate it. Jim was at home enjoying his retirement; doesn't really need the job. Aqua even flew out to his house in North Carolina to ask him to do it.

 

Afterall, Rutherford has been in the  biz over 50 years in virtually every position.  Multiple cups, knows what it takes to win, and how to do it.

 

72 years old and too old for bullshit. And if there was any interference he'd leave the drop of a hat. I have no doubt.

 

Of course asses in seats (selling the procuct) is the bottomline in any billion dollar company, but he took over at a time the majority of the heavy lifting was already done. The new stars were already acquired. Now he and Allvin  get to complete the fun part.

[Canuckle]

11 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Thing is, they weren't really "competitive" though (missing the playoffs 5 of the 7 seasons Benning was GM).  I'm guessing season ticket renewals had more of an impact on the owners decisions.

Competitive enough to win as many games as they would lose-- not to drive away nearly as much money as would have otherwise "getting shelled 6-1 every night."

 

Former AGM Chris Gear did an interview on Sekeres and Price sometime ago now explaining why the organization did what it did the way they did it.

 

I skipped to the relevant section:

 

 

 

[iinatcc]

4 hours ago, Nucker67 said:

Hughes is the real deal this year. He seems hungry to score and win. Thinking 100+ points and a Norris nomination, maybe a win.

 

Podkolzin seems to really overthink the game and what his instructions are. He needs to just play and be a bull out there. If he doesn't have the smarts or the heart, then back to Abby for him, or possibly a new team. He is still young at 22, but his age isn't the issue. Podz is and could very well remain a borderline NHL player. I've wondered if that fight he got into 2 years ago shook him and he hasn't really recovered. (mentally) He's playing it too safe, trying too hard not to make a mistake. 

 

 

 

I think we have to set expectations that this could be a reality for Podkolzin. I get he's a 1st round pick but maybe he is just one of those 1st round picks that never lives up to his draft position.

 

His KHL numbers don't look great and that should already have given us a hint what his NHL ceiling might look.

 

I think, more likely, if he does become an NHL player he's going to be more a bottom 6 winger than a regular top 6. If he does become a Top 6, this is basically gravy.

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

3 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

Competitive enough to win as many games as they would lose-- not to drive away nearly as much money as would have otherwise "getting shelled 6-1 every night."

 

Former AGM Chris Gear did an interview on Sekeres and Price sometime ago now explaining why the organization did what it did the way they did it.

 

I skipped to the relevant section:

 

 

They didn't manage to achieve a .500 record (a pretty low bar) in 5 out of 7 seasons?  Even Torts managed that (.500 record) in his disaster season behind the bench.

 

But I've threadjacked this gameday thread enough.  I apologize to those interested in post-game talks instead of my rants.  I'll try not to let it happen again.

Edited October 1, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 minute ago, iinatcc said:

 

I think we have to set expectations that this could be a reality for Podkolzin. I get he's a 1st round pick but maybe he is just one of those 1st round picks that never lives up to his draft position.

 

His KHL numbers don't look great and that should already have given us a hint what his NHL ceiling might look.

 

I think, more likely, if he does become an NHL player he's going to be more a bottom 6 winger than a regular top 6. If he does become a Top 6, this is basically gravy.

 

I still think there's a NHL player in there somewhere.  Tocchet (or the coaches in Abby) just has to be able to get thru to him being afraid to make mistakes on the ice (my opinion).

[Canuckle]

Just now, NewbieCanuckFan said:

They didn't manage to achieve a .500 record (a pretty low bar) in 5 out of 7 seasons?  Even Torts managed that (.500 record) in his disaster season behind the bench.

I think you're missing the bigger picture there. It wasn't about actual win loss record but giving fans at least a modicum of hope they might see a win for the $500.00+ night out they are spending.  The mandate was never "playoffs or else" according to Gear. But giving fans something worthy of watching... and advertisers worthy of paying for.

 

No eyeballs? No interest?  No dollar dollar bill y'all.

[Sergiomomesso]

3 hours ago, erkayloomeh said:

Maybe it's not to late for a pto?

 

[iinatcc]

40 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I still think there's a NHL player in there somewhere.  Tocchet (or the coaches in Abby) just has to be able to get thru to him being afraid to make mistakes on the ice (my opinion).

 

If there is, it's probably is but maybe a 3rd line winger at best?