Popular Post Kevin Biestra Posted August 12 Popular Post Share Posted August 12 Watching hockey for several decades I've seen some great players come and go and seen some have what might have been a guaranteed Hall of Fame career ended by injury...or even death. These are the biggest what ifs I've generally been left with over the years... PAVEL BURE - Actual career: GP: 702, Goals: 437, Points: 779. - What if his knees had held up and he hadn't foregone so many goals trying to set up Gino Odjick... - My predicted career without injuries... GP: 1200, Goals: 750, Points: 1350. WAYNE BABYCH (Dave's Brother) - Actual career: GP: 519, Goals: 192, Points: 438. - Drafted high like his brother Dave, Wayne hit the ground running and scored 54 goals in his third season (after being a Calder finalist in his first) and then...his body started falling apart. The high water mark thereafter was 20 goals. - My predicted career without injuries... GP: 1150, Goals: 450, Points: 1050. BARRY PEDERSON - Actual career: GP: 701, Points: 654. - I think he's a bigger what if than what was lost due to Cam Neely's injuries. His first three seasons were 92, 107 and 116 points. The sky was the limit and then shoulder problems that never were fully fixed. - My predicted career without injuries... GP: 1100, Points: 1250. PELLE LINDBERGH - Actual career: GP: 157, Wins: 87. - Pelle played 157 games before he died in a car crash in his mid-twenties, led the league in wins and won the Vezina Trophy in his only full season as a starter and got the Flyers to the Stanley Cup Final. The Flyers were quite lucky they had Ron Hextall waiting in the wings to take over right away. - My predicted career without injuries... Tough to say but he was looking like a Hall of Famer with what we did see. TIM KERR - Actual career: GP: 655, Goals: 370, Points: 674. - Kerr had four straight seasons with 54-58 goals before his body imploded at age 28...and he had already missed most of his age 23 season due to problems. He came back at 29 and scored 48 goals in the 69 games he played and clearly still had it but never played more than 40 games in a season thereafter and usually not close to that. He would have been a guaranteed Hall of Famer and maybe should be in anyway. - My predicted career without injuries... GP: 1100, Goals: 600, Points: 1100. BARRY BECK - Actual career: GP: 615, Points: 355. - Another Barry with shoulder issues. One of the greatest on ice products to come out of Vancouver, this defenseman was trending somewhat toward the Hall of Fame before the shoulder issues came into play and threw a monkey wrench into everything. - My predicted career without injuries... GP: 1200, Points: 800. BOBBY ORR - Actual career: GP: 657, Points: 915. - This guy and his knees require no introduction. - My predicted career without injuries... GP: 1300, Points: 1700. 3 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-dlc- Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 Good thread. At the very least, Bure got the most out of his body for enough time to really establish himself as a great player And I think trying to set up others is part of a well rounded game because it keeps the other team guessing. He was some kind of special. Pelle was my brother in law's favourite player (he was a huge Flyer's fan) so I got to know a bit about him. Really tragic. Luc too....my good God, I think he could have really been a difference maker for us. Devastating loss. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergiomomesso Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 Can I put myself on the honourable mentions list? GP 710 G153 A193 P345 PIM1557 if only I wasn’t in the sin bin for most of my career. I could have put up 500 points no problem. lol 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 1 hour ago, Sergiomomesso said: I could have put up 500 points no problem. Didn't stop Tiger Williams... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 Bure and Orr are very similar. They only had one gear and that's overdrive. I don't think they could play at 1/2 speed. That's why both of them killed their knees. It didn't help opposing players went after Orr's knees because it was the only way to slow him down. Orr also played in the late 60's and early 70's. If he was playing a decade or so later, the knee surgeries would have been better and they would have rehabbed it better. So he'd probably have a longer career. Back injuries are always going be a career limiting/ending. (I guess we will find out how modern back surgeries work with Eichel.) Pelle Lindbergh and Luc Bourdon were awful tragedies for players so young. Might as well say what if Mario Lemieux didn't have cancer or back issues? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck You Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 Man the only one I got to see on that list was Bure..You got the sample pack! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted August 12 Author Share Posted August 12 56 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: Might as well say what if Mario Lemieux didn't have cancer or back issues? Yeah Mario, Mike Bossy and Eric Lindros are three more that I considered writing about. Anyway... MARIO LEMIEUX - Actual career: GP: 915, Points: 1723 - Projected without issues: GP: 1400, Points: 2600 ERIC LINDROS - Actual career: GP: 760, Points: 865 - Projected without issues: GP: 1200, Points: 1400 MIKE BOSSY - Actual career: GP: 752, Goals: 573, Points: 1126 - Projected without issues: GP: 1200, Goals: 800, Points: 1600 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bell Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 As a huge fan of the Victoria Cougars as a kid the Barry Pederson one kills me. He dominated so much in junior and to start his NHL career. Damn injuries 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted August 12 Author Share Posted August 12 14 minutes ago, Bell said: As a huge fan of the Victoria Cougars as a kid the Barry Pederson one kills me. He dominated so much in junior and to start his NHL career. Damn injuries Yeah very few players in NHL history can compete with his first three seasons. Who...Mike Rogers (not a real rookie), Gretzky, Lemieux, Bossy, Crosby, Ovechkin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertKBD Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 For me, there are two big "what ifs"..... What if Canucks' brass (Stan McCammon, IIRC) hadn't ordered Pat Quinn to drag Wayne Gretzky out of bed and hit him with a "take it or leave it", on a contract that Gretz has been quoted as saying he "thought they had a deal on", only to change his mind because of the Canucks hardball tactics.... #2, is a "what if" based on a rumor. I've heard it several times over the years, but I've never heard it confirmed by any of the principals. (But hey, it's a what if?) According to the story, Philly was very high on Petr Nedved. So much so, they offered the Canucks the 4th overall selection, (which they used to take Mike Ricci) plus Scott Mellanby. The Canucks declined.....but...."what if" they had accepted the offer and instead drafted the guy that went #5 in that draft? A cocky kid from the Czech Republic, named Jaromir Jagr..... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithers joe Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 what if, cam neeley wasn't traded? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzan Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 I've always wondered what things would have looked like if we hadn't lost Luc Bourdon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 (edited) I've always wondered what Vladimir Konstantinov would have done if he hadn't been in that crash. Dominant defensively and a huge hitter, finishing 2nd in Norris voting at age 29, higher than his teammate Lidstrom and a crucial part of the Wings' dominance. Seeing him wheeled out the following season after Detroit defended their title is one of the all-time greatest moments in hockey for me, but I can't help but think that accident didn't rob him of the HHOF. Edited August 13 by King Heffy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 What if Luc Bourdon never got on that motorcycle? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 What if Demko was healthy for our recent playoffs? The Empties say we dispatch the Coilers in 5 and go on to win the Cup. And the Empties are correct, as always. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 On 8/12/2024 at 11:18 AM, Sergiomomesso said: Can I put myself on the honourable mentions list? GP 710 G153 A193 P345 PIM1557 if only I wasn’t in the sin bin for most of my career. I could have put up 500 points no problem. lol Momesso wasn't here long but left a lasting impression. When it comes to support players, he set the bar pretty high. A fan favourite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 On 8/13/2024 at 12:18 AM, King Heffy said: I've always wondered what Vladimir Konstantinov would have done if he hadn't been in that crash. Dominant defensively and a huge hitter, finishing 2nd in Norris voting at age 29, higher than his teammate Lidstrom and a crucial part of the Wings' dominance. Seeing him wheeled out the following season after Detroit defended their title is one of the all-time greatest moments in hockey for me, but I can't help but think that accident didn't rob him of the HHOF. Great post. Holland said the Konstantinov was their number one D, and on a higher career trajectory then Lidstrom, just starting to scratch the surface of his abilities. Agree with this, one of the best all-around D's, and his hits were just sick (like Peca, a smaller guy who could lay out the beasts who played in that era).. Shanny said those 97-98 teams were a lot tougher than the 2002 team. Said "if they played a final, the 2002 team better win in four, or they'd be limping by 7". They (Konstantinov a big part of this), would pick a star on the other team, and either literally knock them out of the series (injury) or mentally out of self preservation. They'd agree to and target a star on purpose, play him just within the rules (nothing like today's rules ). And he also said "we'd be winning 5-1 in a nothing game in the regular season, and next thing you'd know with the game almost done, Vladdy would destroy someone with a hit, and we'd end up icing out knuckles instead of enjoying the beer". Remember that era well, Detroit had a reputation as an all time great regular season, that couldn't make it in the post season (too soft even), Konstantinov played a huge role in eliminating that rep. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 The greatest "What if"? What if Alflives was made "Administrator" of this board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petesake Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 What if those two ones were really Roman numerals in 1970? Vancouver enters the league on a high instead of a sour note and good fortune follows them through the rest of their days… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 6 hours ago, 4petesake said: What if those two ones were really Roman numerals in 1970? Vancouver enters the league on a high instead of a sour note and good fortune follows them through the rest of their days… I'd like the idea of that, but how's that working out for Buffalo? Probably the only other franchise that's suffered more then the Canucks, at least we've made it to 3 finals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) Tim Kerr was one of my favourites when I was just getting into hockey. Can't remember who it was, he dropped them with but the fight was absolutely insane. He was like Lindros before there was a Lindros, a mountain of a forward. Also pretty sure if he'd of played in the final, that it might have been enough to beat EDM (they still made it to game 7 without their leading goal scorer). Dave Brown, Behn and Kerr, the Flyers sure didn't stop their "thing" until sometime in the 2000's. Found the fight. A power forward that possibly would have made the HHOF, possibly even if he didn't miss 87 and the Flyer's won a cup. Or even one of his injuries, didn't happen. Edited August 21 by IBatch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 One of the biggest What If's was Gretzky for sure and glad someone mentioned that. Part of that was Cliff Ronning. What if instead we re-signed him? Left a gaping hole in the lineup. Gretzky was supposed to fill that, and we all wonder how many more break away's Bure would have, and well Mogilny too. But what if Ronning stayed? We'd of had no Messier, and at least two runs would have worked out better. The other what if is more of one of gratitude. Quin. Orca Entertainment did have plans all along to move the team to Seattle, and to also re-brand the name Canucks to the Seattle Orca's. He caboshed it. The Griffith's sold their majority share ... because the club was bleeding money, 20-30 million a year during the Burke era too. And to the Aquallini's for stepping up and like them or not, they saved the franchise from a similar fate as the Jets and the Nords. Bettman did too. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 On 8/12/2024 at 3:42 AM, Kevin Biestra said: Watching hockey for several decades I've seen some great players come and go and seen some have what might have been a guaranteed Hall of Fame career ended by injury...or even death. These are the biggest what ifs I've generally been left with over the years... PAVEL BURE - Actual career: GP: 702, Goals: 437, Points: 779. - What if his knees had held up and he hadn't foregone so many goals trying to set up Gino Odjick... - My predicted career without injuries... GP: 1200, Goals: 750, Points: 1350. WAYNE BABYCH (Dave's Brother) - Actual career: GP: 519, Goals: 192, Points: 438. - Drafted high like his brother Dave, Wayne hit the ground running and scored 54 goals in his third season (after being a Calder finalist in his first) and then...his body started falling apart. The high water mark thereafter was 20 goals. - My predicted career without injuries... GP: 1150, Goals: 450, Points: 1050. BARRY PEDERSON - Actual career: GP: 701, Points: 654. - I think he's a bigger what if than what was lost due to Cam Neely's injuries. His first three seasons were 92, 107 and 116 points. The sky was the limit and then shoulder problems that never were fully fixed. - My predicted career without injuries... GP: 1100, Points: 1250. PELLE LINDBERGH - Actual career: GP: 157, Wins: 87. - Pelle played 157 games before he died in a car crash in his mid-twenties, led the league in wins and won the Vezina Trophy in his only full season as a starter and got the Flyers to the Stanley Cup Final. The Flyers were quite lucky they had Ron Hextall waiting in the wings to take over right away. - My predicted career without injuries... Tough to say but he was looking like a Hall of Famer with what we did see. TIM KERR - Actual career: GP: 655, Goals: 370, Points: 674. - Kerr had four straight seasons with 54-58 goals before his body imploded at age 28...and he had already missed most of his age 23 season due to problems. He came back at 29 and scored 48 goals in the 69 games he played and clearly still had it but never played more than 40 games in a season thereafter and usually not close to that. He would have been a guaranteed Hall of Famer and maybe should be in anyway. - My predicted career without injuries... GP: 1100, Goals: 600, Points: 1100. BARRY BECK - Actual career: GP: 615, Points: 355. - Another Barry with shoulder issues. One of the greatest on ice products to come out of Vancouver, this defenseman was trending somewhat toward the Hall of Fame before the shoulder issues came into play and threw a monkey wrench into everything. - My predicted career without injuries... GP: 1200, Points: 800. BOBBY ORR - Actual career: GP: 657, Points: 915. - This guy and his knees require no introduction. - My predicted career without injuries... GP: 1300, Points: 1700. Barry Beck was just a beauty on the Bruins, if only.Vancouver drafted hm, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie29 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 What if Otto didn't kick it in? On the other hand, and this is a complicated one... What if the Canucks didn't sign Messier? We may never have seen the West Coast Express or only one Sedin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) 5 hours ago, Goalie29 said: What if Otto didn't kick it in? On the other hand, and this is a complicated one... What if the Canucks didn't sign Messier? We may never have seen the West Coast Express or only one Sedin. We went all the way and won with that group...Linden kept getting better, wins the Conn Smyhte and is in the HHOF. Edited August 21 by IBatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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