St. Louis Blues Offer Sheet Oilers Holloway and Broberg

[Lemon Face]

2 hours ago, Drakrami said:

 

 

Well I wouldnt laugh at their management. They got the team to the finals. I'd happily lose 3 Brobergs if it means going to the finals again lol. 

But Broberg was part of that team.

[PureQuickness]

10 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Can you explain how Edmonton is going to fit Broberg's almost $4.6 million cap hit on their roster for this season and next season?

 

Can you explain why you didn't address my critique of your previous statement "Edmonton will 100 percent let Broberg walk"?

[PureQuickness]

44 minutes ago, EastCoastExpress said:

doesnt it just make you giggle inside? just a bit? and they got Draisaitl and Bouchard contracts next and it kinda gets uncontollable giggles. Someone should offer sheet Bouchard at 15mil next year, some teams could do it. DO IT!

 

No team would do that because it means giving up multiple 1st round picks when Edmonton (or whichever team) decides to let the player walk.

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, PureQuickness said:

 

Can you explain why you didn't address my critique of your previous statement "Edmonton will 100 percent let Broberg walk"?

Edmonton doesn’t have the cap space to fit Broberg on the roster. So yes 100% they will let him walk. 
 

Now please explain how they will actually fit him under the cap?  Answering a question with another question isn’t going to work this time. If you can’t figure it out neither can Edmonton. 

[Alflives]

2 hours ago, PureQuickness said:

 

Can you explain why you didn't address my critique of your previous statement "Edmonton will 100 percent let Broberg walk"?

The Empties predict the Coilers will match on Holloway but allow the Blues to steal Broberg because they can’t afford the contract. 
Soilers will then allocate 14+ on the cap to Dryercycle because they are stupid and stink. 

[Bonkers]

I wonder how much it would have cost the oilers to have signed both already? 

Offer sheets are part of the game, I have no problem with it (as long as it doesn't affect the nucks)

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Can you explain how Edmonton is going to fit Broberg's almost $4.6 million cap hit on their roster for this season and next season?

They'd have to do something pretty big for sure.   You know Allvin would figure something out,  Bowman however, do wonder how other GM's view this whole thing with Beech, as in both their personal views and the views of their own fanbases, to make deals with him.    Offer sheets ... St. Louis is the king of these, just haven't seen something like this in quite some time.   It's not like it's a big name like Weber and Shanny.   
 

Moving Kane doesn't even matter which is hilarious, given he'd be the low hanging fruit (to CHI?). 

[IBatch]

21 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Best part, is they will be middling 2nd and 3rd round picks. 

Edmonton deserves this. It really doesn't make St. Louis look very good either. 

Scott Steven's was drafted and played as an 18 year old by WSH, drafted in 82, played the first year ... Langway was his teacher "the minister of defense".  Didn't take long for him to start piling on the points, PIMs and make a huge impact.    He set a lot of team record for WSH as a defenseman.  8 seasons in, St. louis offer sheeted him, and five first round picks (one was Gonchar so not bad).   On to St. Louis.   At the time he was the highest paid D in the league ...   They simply don't make them like that often, even back then.   98 goals, 429 points and 1630 plus PIMs in 601 games, and just entering his early prime!   Yikes.  No D had managed that since in as many games for WSH.  Several D's held out for until they were paid the same, considered better D's then him, including Bourque (best in the business then), Chelios (who would later almost  single handedly ruin our repeat of 94 in the second round in four games) 

 

25-26 year season in St. Louis.  Who was a legit contender.   Especially with the Hull and Oats show.   Was short lived because their GM tried this again... offer sheeted Shanny, who of course was already one of the leagues top power forwards.   Given they had no more picks to give, they had to negotiate compensation.   Blues wanted to give up Cujo and Brind-Amour... which actually probably was on par to what it did cost them..NJ said no way Steven's or F off.   The arbitrator agreed with NJ, and they lost Steven's lol.   

 

Of course the rest is history.   NJ went on to win the first of three cups, and a decade of Eastern dominance.    Shanny signed with DET later, and won 3 cups with them so those players for sure were the winners.

 

Ron Carron, who helped build the 70's Habs dynasty, also helped the Blues make the playoffs 12 consecutive years, traded for Bret Hull etc.    But what he probably didn't know at the time,  created the pivotal moment in history, that led to multiple lockouts.   Given the salary was disclosed, three D's held out for more money (Kevin Hatcher in WSH too), the players walked out in 94-95 and agreed to salary disclosure, and the subsequent "balancing of the books" led to losing the Jets and Nords almost right away, and the Canucks (Griffith's) couldn't compete without losing tens of millions each season within a few short years.    He also offer sheeted Nedved.   Wowzers this guy was going to town poached guys he couldn't draft.   Maybe he was mad at himself for the Butcher trade.  Who knows. 

 

Carron briefly came back after Keenan was fired but it was short lived (to the Blues).   Like to think the Canucks beating that stacked team, had something to do with that.   As far as offer sheets go, this one, was the keystone building the league into what it is today.   Which is bittersweet.   The product is faster then ever, but also lost a lot of it soul.   Teams aren't as "teamy" as they once were, more like baseball, a collection of individuals to a degree, wanting their piece of the pie.    It's virtually impossible for teams to load up in the same way.   GMs can use retention which helps ... but loading up with extra core types is short lived.   Just like with us and Lindholm and Zadarov which  pre salary disclosure, likely would have signed with us.    

 

Offer sheets helped us too.  I think anyways, Nedved.    Most likely helped our D in 94.   Hedican was close to fair value for Nedved on his own later, Brown though was a very good D and played great for us in 94.   Made the pass to Bure in Game 7 CAL.    Ohlund and Kesler, both were fair money deals.    Weber though, was a little over the top.   Much like Steven's for the time. 

 

So whenever I see or hear about an offer sheet, it brings me back to Scott Steven's.    They for sure come with ramifications.  

 

The other one that comes to mind is Penner.   Burke said at the time and was extremely upset about this and used the media against Lowe for several years after - that he just screwed every GM in the league.    By giving out 3rd contract money, for 2nd contracts.   Burke was right.  It took a little longer than he predicted, but now it's the norm.   Including for our own guys who i've read on here that a lot of folks consider "steals and awesome deals!".    They are not.   When CHI and LA were winning their cups, their 2nd contract money wasn't anything like cap percentage wise, that they are today.     
 

RFA's shouldn't be paid like UFAs, their UFA years for sure.   But not the RFA ones.    Brock, Horvat, QH's and EP were all overpaid.   JT Miller is a better example of what deals should look like.    Doesn't matter that they produced beyond their deals (EP and QHs).    That's what they are supposed to do.   Not just "match".    UFAs are supposed to earn their paydays, not get paid like free agents.    When JB signed QHs what had he done to date?   Same with EP.   Same with Brock.   Same with Horvat.   In each case he was paying a premium for potential.   The risk is in the term too.   Fully expect over the next decade, that we will see a reckoning and going back to shorter deals again.    Because not all these RFA's will reach their "potential", some will bomb.   Where's the carrot? 

 

Aside from the simple revenge offer sheets, you're absolutely correct.  Offer sheets have played a huge part in creating change, and as far as the on ice product goes, not necessarily for the better.   The fans have suffered as a result too. 

 

 

Edited August 14 by IBatch

[IBatch]

21 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

They do.

 

 

Why? It's part of the CBA, everything is done out in the open.

See the above.   Walkout's and lockouts.  Rule changes, lost franchises, other ones that had no business going where they did go.   Get that the league wasn't paying their athletes well and viewing it at as proper partnership, but it swung way too far the other way as a result of greed, and greed came back and needs another look every now and again too.    The current contract structuring also has its key moment in Penner.    Offer sheets haven't been the leagues brightest moments.  The Jets also lost Selanne.    The part of this that works for me, is that Bowman might have got Beech's consent, but he didn't get the Oilers fans consent.  Same with other GMs fans consent.   So maybe karma is at play.   

Edited August 14 by IBatch

[HKSR]

Scenario #1:  Trade Kane and Ceci

 

 

Scenario #2:  Match on Holloway.  Walk from Broberg.  Not gonna work.  Something needs to give for 2024-25 season.

 

 

Scenario #3:  Walk from Both.  Still over the cap.

 

 

TLDR:  The Oilers are gonna lose out on this no matter what.  They really got greedy and handcuffed themselves by signing Skinner and dicking around with Holloway and Broberg.  It's gonna cost them.  With Draisaitl and Bouchard re-signing for next year, their depth will take an even bigger hit.  This coming year was their best chance at a solid Cup run with depth to back it up. 

[Michael Scott]

This is awesome. I can't remember where I saw this, but oilers wanted Buchnevich at the trade deadline. Blues wanted Holloway and Broberg. Looks like the Blues may get 1 or both while retaining Buchnevich. 

 

I really hope that rumor is correct 

[Bure10Kuzmenko96]

28 minutes ago, Michael Scott said:

This is awesome. I can't remember where I saw this, but oilers wanted Buchnevich at the trade deadline. Blues wanted Holloway and Broberg. Looks like the Blues may get 1 or both while retaining Buchnevich. 

 

I really hope that rumor is correct 

That would be hilarious if true

[Bure10Kuzmenko96]

lmfao just keeps getting better

[DeNiro]

Just now, Bure10Kuzmenko96 said:

lmfao just keeps getting better

This is a lesson to take care of your RFAs early. 
 

Don’t nickel and dime them and leave yourself exposed to offer sheets.

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

This is a lesson to take care of your RFAs early. 
 

Don’t nickel and dime them and leave yourself exposed to offer sheets.

Yeah.  I was worried Silovs would be exposed.  Glad we locked him in, and for dirt cheap too!

[Nucker67]

Oilers have always put all of their eggs in the McDavid/Draisaitl basket and it's cost them year after year. I'm pleased to see they are continuing with this plan. Really hoping Draisaitl demands top dollar and term. I'd be over the moon with an 8 x $14 for the pissy one. 

 

I like what STL is doing here.

 

Question - If a team puts a player on LTIR for the season (for cap reasons, let's be honest), does the team Dr. have to sign off on the injury?  or does the league just turn a blind eye to these transactions?  

[Hammertime]

Looking at their cap. Even if they got them both done in the 2m range they couldn't afford it. I don't now that they had ever intended to resign them this offseason. I assume they had designs on a trade but didn't act fast enough. Not based on anything just my kneejerk reaction. 

 

 

[PureQuickness]

9 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Edmonton doesn’t have the cap space to fit Broberg on the roster. So yes 100% they will let him walk. 
 

Now please explain how they will actually fit him under the cap?  Answering a question with another question isn’t going to work this time. If you can’t figure it out neither can Edmonton. 

 

They are allowed to exceed the cap in the offseason (they are already over the cap even before matching), up to a certain percentage. So they can keep Broberg and have to trade someone and/or LTIR Kane. I honestly predict that they will have to keep either Broberg or Halloway, but Broberg is definitely better of a player than Halloway, even though they play different positions. So, my disagreement was in your previous statement about Edmonton 100 percent walking away from Broberg. He is a defenseman - and one who played rather well these playoffs. You don't trade away a young defenseman like that for a 2nd round pick.

Edited August 14 by PureQuickness

[PureQuickness]

2 hours ago, HKSR said:

Scenario #1:  Trade Kane and Ceci

 

 

Scenario #2:  Match on Holloway.  Walk from Broberg.  Not gonna work.  Something needs to give for 2024-25 season.

 

 

Scenario #3:  Walk from Both.  Still over the cap.

 

 

TLDR:  The Oilers are gonna lose out on this no matter what.  They really got greedy and handcuffed themselves by signing Skinner and dicking around with Holloway and Broberg.  It's gonna cost them.  With Draisaitl and Bouchard re-signing for next year, their depth will take an even bigger hit.  This coming year was their best chance at a solid Cup run with depth to back it up. 

 

You're missing the scenario where they LTIR Kane, which will basically cover Broberg's new amount. Oilers are still over the cap, but they will have to trade someone else on their roster for draft picks.

 

IMO, if you had to lose one or the other, Halloway would be a 'better' choice over losing Broberg. It sucks to lose either one though.

[EastCoastExpress]

7 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

They are allowed to exceed the cap in the offseason (they are already over the cap even before matching), up to a certain percentage. So they can keep Broberg and have to trade someone and/or LTIR Kane. I honestly predict that they will have to keep either Broberg or Halloway, but Broberg is definitely better of a player than Halloway, even though they play different positions. So, my disagreement was in your previous statement about Edmonton 100 percent walking away from Broberg. He is a defenseman - and one who played rather well these playoffs. You don't trade away a young defenseman like that for a 2nd round pick.

 

3 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

You're missing the scenario where they LTIR Kane, which will basically cover Broberg's new amount. Oilers are still over the cap, but they will have to trade someone else on their roster for draft picks.

 

IMO, if you had to lose one or the other, Halloway would be a 'better' choice over losing Broberg. It sucks to lose either one though.

If they are over the cap this year, imaging the trouble with their two big extensions next year? Dont even care about Kane $$$ they are screwed even if they gave away Kane for a pick. Maybe they have this year (and short staffed) but for sure next year fire sale. Anyone want McDavid for a cheeseburger and frys? anyone? anyone?

[HKSR]

17 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

You're missing the scenario where they LTIR Kane, which will basically cover Broberg's new amount. Oilers are still over the cap, but they will have to trade someone else on their roster for draft picks.

 

IMO, if you had to lose one or the other, Halloway would be a 'better' choice over losing Broberg. It sucks to lose either one though.

The issue with LTIR for Kane is that he will likely come back... so it's only a temporary solution.

[Coconuts]

13 hours ago, Honkin Hronek said:

Oh man if we can somehow trade Poolman for Kulak I would be ecstatic. Makes sense for both sides 

 

Nah, let em suffer and pay their way out

[NHL97OneTimer]

While I laugh my head off at Edmonton and their fans right now, I have to say, contracts like EP's puts us in a similar position down the road unless guys take pay cuts.

[canuck73_3]

5 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Nah, let em suffer and pay their way out

In a vacuum I like that swap, but as far as helping the Oil? F em 

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, canuck73_3 said:

In a vacuum I like that swap, but as far as helping the Oil? F em 

 

Aye, the Oil having to spend assets to figure out their cap, or losing players for a low return, is a Canucks win in itself 

 

Kulak is decent but I'm not keen on adding more D term even if it's just this coming season and the next