Canadian Military Thread

[Sharpshooter]

On 11/2/2023 at 9:18 AM, Gurn said:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/f-35-fighter-jets-to-cost-canada-nearly-74-billion-pbo/ar-AA1jh8lo?bncnt=BroadcastNews_TopStories&ocid=UCPNC2&FORM=BNC001&pc=U531&cvid=cbdf5c6b91794ee3b6bfb26e7ba93e42&ei=53

Owning and operating a fleet of F-35 fighter jets over the next four and a half decades is expected to cost Canadian taxpayers as much as $73.9 billion, the Parliamentary Officer said Thursday in a new report.

Yves Giroux says the figure represents the full life cycle cost of the advanced aircraft, from development and preparation through operations to final disposal.

He said the estimate is broadly in line with the estimates produced by the Department of National Defence, which has said it anticipates the total price tag to be somewhere around $70 billion.

The first four of the planned 88 aircraft are expected to arrive in 2026. Deliveries will increase annually to a maximum of 18 per year in 2029. The final tranche is expected in 2032.

The Liberal government formally announced in January that it would buy the U.S.-manufactured stealth fighter — ending a more than decade-long public debate about which aircraft should replace the air force's aging CF-18 jets, which were purchased in the 1980s.

At the announcement, the defence minister at the time, Anita Anand, pegged the cost of buying the fighters at $19 billion. 

"The total cost of the acquisition phase, including not just the purchase cost of the fighter jets but all acquisition phase activities, is projected to be $19.8 billion, according to our analysis," Giroux said in a statement.

The operations and sustainment phase is estimated at $53.8 billion, he said.

The last aircraft is expected to be retired in 2060-61, when it has reached the end of its useful life.

The new estimate is a far cry from the original projection, presented 13 years ago by the former Conservative government, which said buying and operating the aircraft would cost $29 billion over a 20-year period. 

That estimate was questioned by a previous parliamentary budget officer, Kevin Page, whose report kicked off a series of public battles that resulted in the Conservative government shelving the proposal to buy the F-35 without a competition.

The Liberals came to power in 2015 promising not to buy the Lockheed-Martin-built aircraft.

 

But dagnabbit, the Abbotsford air show is gonna be a humdinger! 
 

 

[Gurn]

3 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

But dagnabbit, the Abbotsford air show is gonna be a humdinger! 
 

 

I was there the year this happened

scary as hell, to a nine year old me

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=54979

Date:	Sunday 12 August 1973
Time:
Type:	McDonnell CF-101B Voodoo
Owner/operator:	Canadian Armed Forces (CAF)
Registration:	101019
MSN:	492
Fatalities:	Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: 2
Aircraft damage:	Written off (damaged beyond repair)
Location:	Abbotsford, BC and Sumas, WA -    Canada
Phase:	Manoeuvring (airshow, firefighting, ag.ops.)
Nature:	Military
Departure airport:	Abbotsford International Airport, BC (CYXX)
Destination airport:	Abbotsford International Airport, BC (CYXX)
Confidence Rating:	Information is only available from news, social media or unofficial sources

Narrative:
The Abbotsford Annual Airshow is Canada’s largest airshow. On August 12, 1973, four CF-101B Voodoos of 409 Squadron were wrapping up their impressive show of power and noise with the four aircraft passing in front of the spectators in line astern. Each aircraft would then pull up into a steep high speed afterburner rolling climb. As the third Voodoo, 101019 piloted by Capt John Pew and navigator Capt Gary Raindahl, pulled up into its rolling climb, it experienced inertia roll coupling, where the aircraft violently oscillates around the pitch and yaw axis. The aircraft overstressed and disintegrated into several large flaming pieces. Fortunately, the two crew members were able to eject, but suffered third degree burns when they ejected through the fireball. The wreckage fell into farm land near Sumas, Washington State. No one on the ground was injured.

 

[Sharpshooter]

24 minutes ago, Gurn said:

I was there the year this happened

scary as hell, to a nine year old me

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=54979

Date:	Sunday 12 August 1973
Time:
Type:	McDonnell CF-101B Voodoo
Owner/operator:	Canadian Armed Forces (CAF)
Registration:	101019
MSN:	492
Fatalities:	Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: 2
Aircraft damage:	Written off (damaged beyond repair)
Location:	Abbotsford, BC and Sumas, WA -    Canada
Phase:	Manoeuvring (airshow, firefighting, ag.ops.)
Nature:	Military
Departure airport:	Abbotsford International Airport, BC (CYXX)
Destination airport:	Abbotsford International Airport, BC (CYXX)
Confidence Rating:	Information is only available from news, social media or unofficial sources

Narrative:
The Abbotsford Annual Airshow is Canada’s largest airshow. On August 12, 1973, four CF-101B Voodoos of 409 Squadron were wrapping up their impressive show of power and noise with the four aircraft passing in front of the spectators in line astern. Each aircraft would then pull up into a steep high speed afterburner rolling climb. As the third Voodoo, 101019 piloted by Capt John Pew and navigator Capt Gary Raindahl, pulled up into its rolling climb, it experienced inertia roll coupling, where the aircraft violently oscillates around the pitch and yaw axis. The aircraft overstressed and disintegrated into several large flaming pieces. Fortunately, the two crew members were able to eject, but suffered third degree burns when they ejected through the fireball. The wreckage fell into farm land near Sumas, Washington State. No one on the ground was injured.

 

All part of ‘the show’. 

[MattJVD]

Canada expected to announce contract to purchase P8 Poseidon ASW/surveillance tomorrow

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/procurement-new-surveillance-military-planes-1.7042751

[Boudrias]

Recent G&M article quoted head of Canadian navy stating the navy could not meet it's operational mandates due to personnel shortages and equipment failures. 

In most countries this would be a crisis but apparently not so in Canada. 

[MattJVD]

On 11/29/2023 at 4:26 PM, MattJVD said:

Canada expected to announce contract to purchase P8 Poseidon ASW/surveillance tomorrow

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/procurement-new-surveillance-military-planes-1.7042751

I'm a little late to post the contract award, but it did go ahead the next day as CBC reported:

 

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/news/2023/11/canada-purchasing-up-to-16-p-8a-poseidon-multi-mission-aircraft-for-the-royal-canadian-air-force.html

[Mac]

A few days ago the media said Canada has enough ammo for a whole 3 days...like putin's war.

 

Yet we give billions away to other countries.

 

Our military has been destroyed by the government. I feel bad for our serving men and women and how pathetic they are treated.

[Boudrias]

18 hours ago, Mac said:

A few days ago the media said Canada has enough ammo for a whole 3 days...like putin's war.

 

Yet we give billions away to other countries.

 

Our military has been destroyed by the government. I feel bad for our serving men and women and how pathetic they are treated.

When you can't trust the equipment you are given then where does it leave you? I have talked to many vets who were so disillusioned they left the armed forces. When our top naval admiral says he cannot carry out his duties because of equipment failure and lack of sailors it should spark a national crisis. But that doesn't happen in Canada. The problem isn't within the forces it is with the politicians and the citizens. As I have said before Canada is not a serious country. France had 45 million people at the beginning of WW1 and fought a major war. Canada has 40 million people and cannot defend itself. The citizens want all the social benefits they can get but are not prepared to defend the country they ask to provide for them. 

[MattJVD]

On 12/17/2023 at 9:27 AM, Boudrias said:

When you can't trust the equipment you are given then where does it leave you? I have talked to many vets who were so disillusioned they left the armed forces. When our top naval admiral says he cannot carry out his duties because of equipment failure and lack of sailors it should spark a national crisis. But that doesn't happen in Canada. The problem isn't within the forces it is with the politicians and the citizens. As I have said before Canada is not a serious country. France had 45 million people at the beginning of WW1 and fought a major war. Canada has 40 million people and cannot defend itself. The citizens want all the social benefits they can get but are not prepared to defend the country they ask to provide for them. 

The Navy has put 5 new ship in the water since 2020 (not all commissioned yet, but they've been launched). Recruiting is below replacement level and the fleet is growing at the same time, which is really straining personnel. Admiral Topshee was not saying that the equipment is poor, but that we don't have enough staff to properly maintain the fleet and keep ships deployable, especially when the first Halifax class replacements aren't expected to launch until around 2030. 

 

The Navy and the Air Force are doing a decent job of re-capitalizing their big-ticket items, but recruiting is a big challenge. We've had a solid 5-10 years of a fairly tight labour market and no marketable missions which has made the CAF uncompetitive as an employer. It's particularly acute for the Navy, where your posting options are Halifax and Victoria - not exactly easy places to afford housing. On-base housing has always been one of DND's lowest priorities, but they really need to invest heavily there in the near-term. Most of the PMQs are 1950s-70s vintage with varying quality of renovations and very little new supply added. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by MattJVD

[Gurn]

Every employer seems short of workers.

This is going to be either a HUGE problem, or the beginning of a HUGE societal shift- perhaps both.

 

something is happening, but be damned if I know what, or how to deal with it.

[Gurn]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/gen-wayne-eyre-stepping-down-from-position-as-canada-s-top-military-commander/ar-AA1mSROh?bncnt=BroadcastNews_BreakingNews&ocid=00000000&FORM=BNC001&pc=U531&cvid=b162fb67221544a1acf8f1c699ed1bc5&ei=88

Canada's top military commander is headed for the exit.

Gen. Wayne Eyre, chief of the defence staff, has confirmed he plans to retire this summer, the Prime Minister's Office said in a media statement Friday.

He has been in the job since February 2021, when he replaced the now-retired admiral Art McDonald as CDS. McDonald stepped aside after allegations of sexual misconduct surfaced — claims that military police later decided not to pursue.

[Sapper]

5 hours ago, Gurn said:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/gen-wayne-eyre-stepping-down-from-position-as-canada-s-top-military-commander/ar-AA1mSROh?bncnt=BroadcastNews_BreakingNews&ocid=00000000&FORM=BNC001&pc=U531&cvid=b162fb67221544a1acf8f1c699ed1bc5&ei=88

Canada's top military commander is headed for the exit.

Gen. Wayne Eyre, chief of the defence staff, has confirmed he plans to retire this summer, the Prime Minister's Office said in a media statement Friday.

He has been in the job since February 2021, when he replaced the now-retired admiral Art McDonald as CDS. McDonald stepped aside after allegations of sexual misconduct surfaced — claims that military police later decided not to pursue.

He served 40 years ...... A well earned retirement.... 2 bars in the CD means a lifetime away from family and friends.

[Rook]

On 11/6/2023 at 6:14 PM, Gurn said:

I was there the year this happened

scary as hell, to a nine year old me

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=54979

Date:	Sunday 12 August 1973
Time:
Type:	McDonnell CF-101B Voodoo
Owner/operator:	Canadian Armed Forces (CAF)
Registration:	101019
MSN:	492
Fatalities:	Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: 2
Aircraft damage:	Written off (damaged beyond repair)
Location:	Abbotsford, BC and Sumas, WA -    Canada
Phase:	Manoeuvring (airshow, firefighting, ag.ops.)
Nature:	Military
Departure airport:	Abbotsford International Airport, BC (CYXX)
Destination airport:	Abbotsford International Airport, BC (CYXX)
Confidence Rating:	Information is only available from news, social media or unofficial sources

Narrative:
The Abbotsford Annual Airshow is Canada’s largest airshow. On August 12, 1973, four CF-101B Voodoos of 409 Squadron were wrapping up their impressive show of power and noise with the four aircraft passing in front of the spectators in line astern. Each aircraft would then pull up into a steep high speed afterburner rolling climb. As the third Voodoo, 101019 piloted by Capt John Pew and navigator Capt Gary Raindahl, pulled up into its rolling climb, it experienced inertia roll coupling, where the aircraft violently oscillates around the pitch and yaw axis. The aircraft overstressed and disintegrated into several large flaming pieces. Fortunately, the two crew members were able to eject, but suffered third degree burns when they ejected through the fireball. The wreckage fell into farm land near Sumas, Washington State. No one on the ground was injured.

 

WOW!! Thanks for sharing!! Never heard this story!! Grew up on peardonville in Abbotsford and watched the air show from parallel to the airport for most  the early years of my life.   Still remember the year when the Blue Angels broke the sound barrier right above my house and got banned for a few years!! Will never forget that!! 

[Optimist Prime]

19 hours ago, Gurn said:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/gen-wayne-eyre-stepping-down-from-position-as-canada-s-top-military-commander/ar-AA1mSROh?bncnt=BroadcastNews_BreakingNews&ocid=00000000&FORM=BNC001&pc=U531&cvid=b162fb67221544a1acf8f1c699ed1bc5&ei=88

Canada's top military commander is headed for the exit.

Gen. Wayne Eyre, chief of the defence staff, has confirmed he plans to retire this summer, the Prime Minister's Office said in a media statement Friday.

He has been in the job since February 2021, when he replaced the now-retired admiral Art McDonald as CDS. McDonald stepped aside after allegations of sexual misconduct surfaced — claims that military police later decided not to pursue.

Hopeful a certain rear Admiral in Halifax takes a step up the chain. A guy who I was in Cadets with a lifetime ago is in the short list...I am excited. 

[Optimist Prime]

On 11/6/2023 at 4:14 PM, Gurn said:

I was there the year this happened
The Abbotsford Annual Airshow is Canada’s largest airshow

 

I don't remember how many I attended growing up, close to a dozen maybe? I do recall my childhood buddy and I rode our bikes from Abbotsford proper all the way to the airport the day the Pope visited. I was never catholic but it seemed like an historic moment I didn't wanna miss. Got to stand right up front with the Knights of Columbus too, them catholics must like little boys or something. hehehe. 

 

Oh and tying this post to my previous above: there is an outside chance the new CDS is from the lower main land and went to Cadets near Langley.. I am hopeful, he is an amazing man with a good heart and mind and a world of experience. 

[Gurn]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/big-boat-big-makeover-newdock-nabs-34m-contract-to-refit-canadian-coast-guard-ship/vi-AA1n4YBC?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=1fff8ccd876544c691ef74f944b5956f&ei=86

 

he CCGS Judy LaMarsh will come apart and be put back together again, as part of a contract awarded by the federal government to St. John’s Dockyard, also known as Newdock. It’s part of the national shipbuilding strategy to keep Canadian Coast Guard and Royal Canadian Navy fleets modern

[Gurn]

Another attack piece from the Sun paper chain:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/bezan-feds-failing-to-support-the-military-in-trying-times/ar-BB1h0f7O?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=1a7310ce89024d27b157aba4e9b009a6&ei=103.

 

"Before Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, there was an unwritten contract between the Canadian Armed Forces and the federal government. In return for their enormous sacrifice, members of the military would receive modern weapons and equipment, be housed in suitable accommodation and be given decent pay and a clear mission. Eight years into Justin Trudeau’s tenure, this deal is broken.'

-----------------------------------------------------------

That's the basic tone and content of the story- but it doesn't even mention the new spending on ships, fighter jets, re fuelers, surveillance and cargo planes.

And while they mention the personnel shortages, they don't mention that practically every business in this country is currently short of people.

 

I'm all for more and perhaps wiser spending, but I would never try to pretend nothing is being done.

 

 

[MattJVD]

16 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Another attack piece from the Sun paper chain:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/bezan-feds-failing-to-support-the-military-in-trying-times/ar-BB1h0f7O?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=1a7310ce89024d27b157aba4e9b009a6&ei=103.

 

"Before Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, there was an unwritten contract between the Canadian Armed Forces and the federal government. In return for their enormous sacrifice, members of the military would receive modern weapons and equipment, be housed in suitable accommodation and be given decent pay and a clear mission. Eight years into Justin Trudeau’s tenure, this deal is broken.'

-----------------------------------------------------------

That's the basic tone and content of the story- but it doesn't even mention the new spending on ships, fighter jets, re fuelers, surveillance and cargo planes.

And while they mention the personnel shortages, they don't mention that practically every business in this country is currently short of people.

 

I'm all for more and perhaps wiser spending, but I would never try to pretend nothing is being done.

 

 

Written by a currently sitting MP, it's a political campaign piece. People who pay close attention know it's a Canada issue and not a Liberal issue. It's unfortunate that some still buy into the myth that the Conservative party takes funding the CAF more seriously. Under both parties we've had equipment, personel, and infrastructure issues. And under both parties we've had major capabilities and new technologies aquired.

[Optimist Prime]

Can confirm. It was during a Conservative Government that our annual range training in the army became murmuring "budget cut" while waiving my empty rifle at a target 100 yards away.

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Can confirm. It was during a Conservative Government that our annual range training in the army became murmuring "budget cut" while waiving my empty rifle at a target 100 yards away.

 

no, no, no. That doesn't jive at all with the CPC narrative, take it back. 

[King Heffy]

3 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

Can confirm. It was during a Conservative Government that our annual range training in the army became murmuring "budget cut" while waiving my empty rifle at a target 100 yards away.

Not to mention the cuts to Veterans Affairs.  This shouldn't be a partisan issue; compensate the men and women who risk their lives for us appropriately.

[Sharpshooter]

On 1/20/2024 at 7:06 PM, King Heffy said:

Not to mention the cuts to Veterans Affairs.  This shouldn't be a partisan issue; compensate the men and women who risk their lives for us appropriately.

The men and women of our Armed Forces have always been pawns. 
 

Same as in the US. 
 

There’s no sacred pact between those who legislate and those who serve/protect. 
 

 

[King Heffy]

3 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

The men and women of our Armed Forces have always been pawns. 
 

Same as in the US. 
 

There’s no sacred pact between those who legislate and those who serve/protect. 
 

 

I would be in favor of mandatory military service for anyone hoping to be PM.

[Sharpshooter]

Just now, King Heffy said:

I would be in favor of mandatory military service for anyone hoping to be PM.

I think that excludes too many people of quality, so respectfully disagree. 

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, Sharpshooter said:

I think that excludes too many people of quality, so respectfully disagree. 

It does, but there would be plenty of time for someone who is interested to meet that requirement before becoming a candidate for party leadership, even if just with the reserves.  The Royal family can do this in the UK.  I think leaders should be willing to follow their own orders though.

 

I think both JT and PP could have benefited a lot from some of the training the military has to offer.