Canadian Military Thread

[Spur1]

7 hours ago, King Heffy said:

It does, but there would be plenty of time for someone who is interested to meet that requirement before becoming a candidate for party leadership, even if just with the reserves.  The Royal family can do this in the UK.  I think leaders should be willing to follow their own orders though.

 

I think both JT and PP could have benefited a lot from some of the training the military has to offer.

PP would have begged out. 

[Gurn]

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/news/2024/03/minister-blair-announces-850-million-investment-in-canadian-forces-base-trenton-and-welcomes-new-aircraft-to-the-royal-canadian-air-force-fleet.html

"

March 8, 2024 – Trenton, Ontario – Department of National Defence

Today, the Honourable Bill Blair, Minister of National Defence, visited Canadian Forces Base (CFB) Trenton, the home of Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) air mobility operations in Canada. Minister Blair announced an investment of $850 million to upgrade CFB Trenton, so that it can host Canada’s new fleet of CC-330 Husky Strategic Tanker Transport Aircraft.

This $850 million investment will fund major airfield and infrastructure work at Trenton, including the development and design of a two-bay hangar, an upgraded apron and runway, taxiways,  and other supporting infrastructure. These upgrades will enable CFB Trenton to serve as the Eastern Main Operating Base for the new CC-330 Husky fleet

Minister Blair noted that through the Strategic Tanker Transport Capability (STTC) Project, Canada is rapidly acquiring nine CC-330 Husky aircraft – almost doubling the size of the previous fleet. Two Husky aircraft have been delivered to Canada so far – the first one in 2023, and the second Husky (numbered 003) joined the CC-330 fleet on February 16, 2024.

Although currently configured for transport, the aircraft will eventually be converted to become a multi-role tanker transport aircraft. The CC-330 will provide the RCAF with increased flexibility to fulfill a variety of air mobility missions, including air-to-air refuelling, passenger transport, aeromedical evacuation, and strategic transport.

Minister Blair also welcomed a new aircraft to the Canadian Armed Forces fleet. The Minister toured the first of three new CE-145C Vigilance aircraft, which arrived in Trenton on February 23, 2024. The CE-145C Vigilance is a modified Beechcraft King Air 350ER turbo prop aircraft produced by L3 Harris in Texas, under the MAISR project. It will provide a new manned airborne intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance (MAISR) capability for the Canadian Special Operations Forces Command (CANSOFCOM). Equipped with state-of-the-art sensors and secure communications equipment, these aircraft will provide a vital new capability for the CAF, enabling enhanced situational awareness and decision-making during operations on the ground. The aircraft will primarily be used to support CAF operations.

Minister Blair noted that as we celebrate the 100^th anniversary of the RCAF, it is undergoing its largest transformation in a generation. Since 2022, the Government of Canada has finalized the procurement or upgrade of approximately 140 new or refurbished aircraft for the RCAF – including 88 new F-35 fighter jets, 9 CC-330 Husky Strategic Tanker Transport aircraft, up to 16 new P-8A Poseidon multi-mission aircraft, 16 new or upgraded Cormorant helicopters; and 11 SkyGuardian Remotely Piloted Aircraft Systems. This represents a monumental recapitalization of the RCAF which will strengthen Canada’s contributions to NATO and NORAD, and improve the RCAF’s ability to protect Canada.

These projects are also creating significant economic benefits for Canada. The STTC project has the potential to create or maintain 1,050 jobs annually in Canada and contribute $145 million annually to GDP over the life of the contract. The acquisition and maintenance contracts for the MAISR project have the potential to create or maintain approximately 65 jobs annually, and contribute $7.5 million annually to Canada’s GDP over the life of the contract.

Minister Blair was accompanied by General Wayne Eyre, Chief of the Defence Staff; Lieutenant-General Eric Kenny, Commander of the RCAF and Brigadier-General Richard Schmidt, Deputy Commander of the CANSOFCOM.

 

[UnkNuk]

Interesting column about how difficult it will be for Canada to finance its NATO commitment:

 

So, what expenditures should Canada cut to meet its NATO obligations?

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/gift/5647385edcff2020c0b78cafdec336f965b6fac6c5bf41ffeb1ac3eb5cc30ad2/ISRDJEYHYBCC7AUQJQL4GR7JFI/

[MattJVD]

22 hours ago, UnkNuk said:

Interesting column about how difficult it will be for Canada to finance its NATO commitment:

 

So, what expenditures should Canada cut to meet its NATO obligations?

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/gift/5647385edcff2020c0b78cafdec336f965b6fac6c5bf41ffeb1ac3eb5cc30ad2/ISRDJEYHYBCC7AUQJQL4GR7JFI/

Would be interesting to compare with countries like France and the UK. They manage more than 2% of GDP with comparable or better (France) social programs. Granted their much denser populations likely lead to a little more efficency in service delivery and infrastructure spending.

[Gurn]

Policy Update

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/defence-minister-bill-blair-to-release-canada-s-long-awaited-defence-policy-update/ar-BB1lfuBE?bncnt=BroadcastNews_TopStories&ocid=UCPNC2&FORM=BNC001&pc=U531&cvid=86a6fc282fef4a34b0ef095784fab462&ei=13

"

OTTAWA — Defence Minister Bill Blair is set to release the long-awaited update to Canada's defence policy this morning in Trenton, Ont. 

The policy has been in the works since shortly after Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022. 

It replaces the current policy, "Strong, Secure, Engaged," which came out in 2017 and sets out the military's priorities for 20 years.

That policy lays out plans for major equipment purchases in $164 billion of capital spending.

Work on the updated plan started under former minister Anita Anand and there has been speculation that one version was shelved because it called for too much additional spending.

Blair has said the plan will be aimed at giving Canada's defence industry the stability and predictability it needs to plan for the future.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published April 8, 2024. 

The Canadian Press

[Bob Long]

10 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Policy Update

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/defence-minister-bill-blair-to-release-canada-s-long-awaited-defence-policy-update/ar-BB1lfuBE?bncnt=BroadcastNews_TopStories&ocid=UCPNC2&FORM=BNC001&pc=U531&cvid=86a6fc282fef4a34b0ef095784fab462&ei=13

"

OTTAWA — Defence Minister Bill Blair is set to release the long-awaited update to Canada's defence policy this morning in Trenton, Ont. 

The policy has been in the works since shortly after Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022. 

It replaces the current policy, "Strong, Secure, Engaged," which came out in 2017 and sets out the military's priorities for 20 years.

That policy lays out plans for major equipment purchases in $164 billion of capital spending.

Work on the updated plan started under former minister Anita Anand and there has been speculation that one version was shelved because it called for too much additional spending.

Blair has said the plan will be aimed at giving Canada's defence industry the stability and predictability it needs to plan for the future.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published April 8, 2024. 

The Canadian Press

 

updated today with some more detail: https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/news/2024/04/our-north-strong-and-free-a-renewed-vision-for-canadas-defence.html

 

 

[Bob Long]

Nothing specific today, but Canada is at least openly talking about a new drone capability for Canada, from the link above 

 

Surveillance and Strike Drones and Counter-Drone Capabilities

• We will explore options for acquiring a suite of surveillance and strike drones and counter-drone capabilities.
•  

[MattJVD]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

Nothing specific today, but Canada is at least openly talking about a new drone capability for Canada, from the link above 

 

Surveillance and Strike Drones and Counter-Drone Capabilities

• We will explore options for acquiring a suite of surveillance and strike drones and counter-drone capabilities.
•  

I assume that is in addition to the Reaper Bs that were already ordered. Likely some smaller drones integrated into Army units, rather than large, Air Force assets? (Speculation)

[MattJVD]

I'm quite interested in the submarine replacement and the curious about the tactical helicopter replacement. 

 

Helicopters seems like a long way out: But the Griffins aren't exactly fit for purpose right now. Every time I did an air mobile excercise we had to really limit the amout of kit we carried and the helicopters couldn't have their fuel tanks filled all the way if they wanted to carry a full infantry section of 8. We just made do with what we had, but it would be a big benefit to carry larger loads than the Griffins can offer.

 

The submarines are quite interesting though, Admiral Topshee was in Korea last year looking at their newest attack subs. Seems like there are plenty of good options for modern, conventional powered, submarines that would give the 3+ weeks of submerged endurance required for work in the arctic.

Edited April 8 by MattJVD

[Bob Long]

9 minutes ago, MattJVD said:

I assume that is in addition to the Reaper Bs that were already ordered. Likely some smaller drones integrated into Army units, rather than large, Air Force assets? (Speculation)

 

Yea not sure, I hope so. I really hope that we start building them here at home.

[MattJVD]

14 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Yea not sure, I hope so. I really hope that we start building them here at home.

Yeah, we should build some at home for sure. I'm always cautious of trying to build everything domestically, we just don't have the order volumes to make it economical. I'd love it Canadian industry could find a niche though, find a system or two that we can produce a huge scales and supply our allies with. While purchasing other systems off the market. There is a huge variety of drones in use, I think there is room in the market for us to be aggressive at going after one or two specific types or platforms to produce ourselves.

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, MattJVD said:

Yeah, we should build some at home for sure. I'm always cautious of trying to build everything domestically, we just don't have the order volumes to make it economical. I'd love it Canadian industry could find a niche though, find a system or two that we can produce a huge scales and supply our allies with. While purchasing other systems off the market. There is a huge variety of drones in use, I think there is room in the market for us to be aggressive at going after one or two specific types or platforms to produce ourselves.

 

Arctic adapted ones would seem to me the place to begin. I know we have companies that already supply drone parts, so maybe we just need a drone "Magna" that can be more of an integrator/final producer.

[Optimist Prime]

THE CANADIAN PRESS: Canada to seek to join AUKUS alliance, consider nuclear subs: Trudeau

Canada to consider nuclear submarines: Trudeau

Apr 8, 2024 Updated 1 hr ago OTTAWA - Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says Canada is exploring the possibility of joining the second phase of AUKUS, a U.S.-led alliance with the United Kingdom and Australia.

The initial pillar of the alliance, forged in 2021, was focused on developing nuclear-powered submarines for Australia.

Trudeau says Canada will consider whether it needs to purchase nuclear-powered submarines to better ensure it can defend Canadian sovereignty in the Arctic.

He made the comments today as the federal government released its long-awaited defence policy review, which is focused on better protecting Canadian sovereignty in the North.

 

((Keep in mind though, looking into the possibility doesn't mean we will do it.))

[Gurn]

^

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AUKUS

----------------------------------------------------------

 

While the new design is being finished/decided and built, the U.S. will be selling Australia 3 Virginia class subs, and perhaps 3 more- to ensure the Aussies don't lose coverage, as their Collins class subs age out.

 

There is a line in the story, saying there is no intention to expand the program to more countries, but  I'd doubt that Canada would be excluded.

Just suggest that we might buy Russian subs, and the Allies/5 eye/Nato won't want to have other countries having Russian 'sounding' subs.

Gets very hard to tell friend from foe, when, multiple countries, subs, have the same 'sound signature'.

 

[Optimist Prime]

20 hours ago, Gurn said:

^

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AUKUS

----------------------------------------------------------

 

While the new design is being finished/decided and built, the U.S. will be selling Australia 3 Virginia class subs, and perhaps 3 more- to ensure the Aussies don't lose coverage, as their Collins class subs age out.

 

There is a line in the story, saying there is no intention to expand the program to more countries, but  I'd doubt that Canada would be excluded.

Just suggest that we might buy Russian subs, and the Allies/5 eye/Nato won't want to have other countries having Russian 'sounding' subs.

Gets very hard to tell friend from foe, when, multiple countries, subs, have the same 'sound signature'.

 

hehe, I talk a lot, so I will keep it brief on this point, but my brother was on our old diesel subs for a decade with the highest clearance possible as his job was listening to all those underwater noises and knowing what was who and who was who and who wasn't what and so forth. He could tell dozens of whales apart from each other from their voices, and he was quite capable of distinguishing each sub from even its sister sub of the same class. it isn't just the screws turning but every electronic device emanating from the sub has its own discreet frequency differences from one another (Imagine if you will operatives at choke points like the Suez, Panama, Gibraltar naval areas...where you can visibly ID a vessel AND capture data on its transmitters, for future use; that is really how its done folks) . Same when I was on the russian bomber desk for a while, each tail emittor not only shouts the planes callsign over and over ad infinitum but even when they try to be trixie, the discreet frequency of the transmitters, and there are several on each aircraft too, don't lie. The envelope the signals come in form part of the message, to the listener.  Hope i don't sound like a know it all, its just that my parents did the job when they were in the service in the 50's, my brother did it in the 80s and 90's, i did it from the 90's to the 2010's and my nephew does it today, so we kind of have insider info on listening to our nations enemies. Still though, I am sure Canada wouldn't be excluded, as we only were because of our official stance on a nuclear military. 

[Optimist Prime]

Exceptions to the above: Chinese trawlers that are really spy ships have a habbit of swapping out their radars and sonars with each other randomly while in port. It only slows us down on ID's for an extra half a shift at most because there are so many overlapping ways to ID anything that moves, even just based on how far it moves in any given period of time et cetera. So many data points that we need an army now to keep track of them all, hehe. 

 

ooooooOOOO OR we need an AI Identifier/Classifier. Wish that crossed my mind ten years ago, i might have been able to ride that to a few million bucks. 

[MattJVD]

20 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

THE CANADIAN PRESS: Canada to seek to join AUKUS alliance, consider nuclear subs: Trudeau

Canada to consider nuclear submarines: Trudeau

Apr 8, 2024 Updated 1 hr ago OTTAWA - Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says Canada is exploring the possibility of joining the second phase of AUKUS, a U.S.-led alliance with the United Kingdom and Australia.

The initial pillar of the alliance, forged in 2021, was focused on developing nuclear-powered submarines for Australia.

Trudeau says Canada will consider whether it needs to purchase nuclear-powered submarines to better ensure it can defend Canadian sovereignty in the Arctic.

He made the comments today as the federal government released its long-awaited defence policy review, which is focused on better protecting Canadian sovereignty in the North.

 

((Keep in mind though, looking into the possibility doesn't mean we will do it.))

Oh wow, I'm surprised he said that. I thought some commentators/reporters were inferring a little too much (combining Victoria Class replacement in the defense policy update with the 'intent to join AUKUS' and drawing the nuclear submarine conclusion). The defense policy update specifically says "conventionally-powered" in the Victoria-class replacement section. But I suppose we'll have to see what the 'exploring the possibility' yields. Personally, I think there is a snowball's chance in hell of it ever happening but we'll see.

[Bob Long]

18 minutes ago, MattJVD said:

Oh wow, I'm surprised he said that. I thought some commentators/reporters were inferring a little too much (combining Victoria Class replacement in the defense policy update with the 'intent to join AUKUS' and drawing the nuclear submarine conclusion). The defense policy update specifically says "conventionally-powered" in the Victoria-class replacement section. But I suppose we'll have to see what the 'exploring the possibility' yields. Personally, I think there is a snowball's chance in hell of it ever happening but we'll see.

 

puts Skippy on the hot seat though, curious how he's going to non-speak around the idea of AUKUS membership. 

 

[MattJVD]

4 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

puts Skippy on the hot seat though, curious how he's going to non-speak around the idea of AUKUS membership. 

 

Well AUKUS membership doesn't necessarily = Nuclear submarines. There is a 2nd 'pillar' of co-operating on Cyber offense and defence, hypersonic missile defence, and integrating sensors between members. I would imagine the criticism of the Nuclear submarines would be 1) we can't afford them, and 2) how are we going to crew them? What is the plan to attract nuclear engineers to the Navy? 

[King Heffy]

19 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

hehe, I talk a lot, so I will keep it brief on this point, but my brother was on our old diesel subs for a decade with the highest clearance possible as his job was listening to all those underwater noises and knowing what was who and who was who and who wasn't what and so forth. He could tell dozens of whales apart from each other from their voices, and he was quite capable of distinguishing each sub from even its sister sub of the same class. it isn't just the screws turning but every electronic device emanating from the sub has its own discreet frequency differences from one another (Imagine if you will operatives at choke points like the Suez, Panama, Gibraltar naval areas...where you can visibly ID a vessel AND capture data on its transmitters, for future use; that is really how its done folks) . Same when I was on the russian bomber desk for a while, each tail emittor not only shouts the planes callsign over and over ad infinitum but even when they try to be trixie, the discreet frequency of the transmitters, and there are several on each aircraft too, don't lie. The envelope the signals come in form part of the message, to the listener.  Hope i don't sound like a know it all, its just that my parents did the job when they were in the service in the 50's, my brother did it in the 80s and 90's, i did it from the 90's to the 2010's and my nephew does it today, so we kind of have insider info on listening to our nations enemies. Still though, I am sure Canada wouldn't be excluded, as we only were because of our official stance on a nuclear military. 

I can't speak for everyone, but I really enjoy posts like this with real experience in the field.  If I was 20 years younger, seeing what goes into an interesting job might have convinced me to join.

[Bob Long]

13 minutes ago, MattJVD said:

Well AUKUS membership doesn't necessarily = Nuclear submarines. There is a 2nd 'pillar' of co-operating on Cyber offense and defence, hypersonic missile defence, and integrating sensors between members. I would imagine the criticism of the Nuclear submarines would be 1) we can't afford them, and 2) how are we going to crew them? What is the plan to attract nuclear engineers to the Navy? 

 

thats a funny position for a CPC member to be in tho... it makes him also have to come up with an alternative military plan that isn't nearly as well aligned with our allies. 

 

[Optimist Prime]

7 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I can't speak for everyone, but I really enjoy posts like this with real experience in the field.  If I was 20 years younger, seeing what goes into an interesting job might have convinced me to join.

There are incredible opportunities, for all kinds of folks, for sure. Keep in mind, the more mentally taxing positions, folks need to pass a certain benchmark. I was 99th percentile across five or six aptitude tests when I moved from telecom into secret squirrel stuff. Pattern Recognition, mechanical aptitude, logic, to name a few. 

I am quite dumb these days, to be fair, but at the time, I managed quite well. I scored an A+ on a live timed multipart test to determine ones ability to learn new languages too, which was neat. A totally made up language was the core of the test, opening with multiple choice answers, moving into oral questions and finally reading and writing this 100% bullshit language, that follows typical language 'rules'. Somehow I managed to finish the test, where it was designed to not be finished and part of the scoring mechanism was how far into each section a candidate got through... I would love to take the test again but alas, some concussions, a tbi and medical retirement put that to bed. 

[Bob Long]

16 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I can't speak for everyone, but I really enjoy posts like this with real experience in the field.  If I was 20 years younger, seeing what goes into an interesting job might have convinced me to join.

 

me too, except for the taking orders part, I don't think I would have done well on that front. 

Edited April 9 by Bob Long

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

There are incredible opportunities, for all kinds of folks, for sure. Keep in mind, the more mentally taxing positions, folks need to pass a certain benchmark. I was 99th percentile across five or six aptitude tests when I moved from telecom into secret squirrel stuff. Pattern Recognition, mechanical aptitude, logic, to name a few. 

I am quite dumb these days, to be fair, but at the time, I managed quite well. I scored an A+ on a live timed multipart test to determine ones ability to learn new languages too, which was neat. A totally made up language was the core of the test, opening with multiple choice answers, moving into oral questions and finally reading and writing this 100% bullshit language, that follows typical language 'rules'. Somehow I managed to finish the test, where it was designed to not be finished and part of the scoring mechanism was how far into each section a candidate got through... I would love to take the test again but alas, some concussions, a tbi and medical retirement put that to bed. 

 

[Bob Long]

@Optimist Prime just having fun, I'm actually in awe of what you guys do.