(Trade) Podkolzin to Edmonton

[Pure961089]

7 minutes ago, HKSR said:

He didn't play 100+ games in the NHL.  In fact he never made it to the NHL at all.

Nobody had more opportunity to produce on a bad team and with a ton of ice-time than Podkolzin in Vancouver.  He was given every chance to succeed.  If he wanted to stay with the Canucks you'd think he would have scored more than 2 assists in 21 games. What was he waiting for?

[The Lock]

Just now, Ghostsof1915 said:

My only point is Vancouver is not in a position to screw up first round draft picks. 

We have to start drafting better than everyone else if we want a real shot. 

 

We need higher end draft picks to be able to do that. Having selected only 9 picks in the 1st 3 rounds over the past 6 years kind of sucks. lol

[Silent Man]

2 hours ago, RomanPer said:

Finally. Wanted to see this putin lover gone for a while. Really don't care what the return was. And before you ask "why do you assume he's putin lover?" - I don't assume, I know. He openly supports the war in Ukraine (within the team locker room) and calls Ukrainians "khokhols" (which is a derogatory term for Ukrainians in russian language).

Oh, did not know that. So to fatherland he goes

[Dr. Crossbar]

4 minutes ago, GrammaInTheTub said:

To be fair, something so inflammatory isn’t likely to get reported on officially… 

 

That is indeed fair. 

 

Good use of "to be fair". 

 

Very fair, Gramma. 

[HKSR]

Just now, The Lock said:

 

Okay, so if Joshua stays in St. Louis does he find the same success? In fact Joshua wasn't even drafted by St. Louis, he was drafted by Toronto. 

 

Most of the late bloomers tend to get traded before they find that game and actually have a spot in the NHL.

 

And if you're argument is about players who already found their game in the NHL and then improved later on... that's not the path Joshua went. He had only played 42 games by the time he was 26 and no games before the age of 24. Joshua's path is unique and the exception. 

You're telling me a player doesn't find their game and improves when they hit their mid to late 20s?

 

Tage Thompson is a solid example.  Nazem Kadri is another.  

[Guntrix]

16 hours ago, The Lock said:

 

To be honest, thinking about it, a 4th round pick is better than him getting claimed on waivers. This year, he would have had to go through waivers to get through to the minors and we really don't have the space for him on the team.

 

This also would have nothing to do with the predicament Edmonton's in. What actual benefit would Edmonton acquiring Podkolzin have towards their predicament? They need to get rid of money. Taking on a contract, that might not even make their team, doesn't exactly do that. My guess is this happens even if those offer sheets didn't happen.

 

You always have seemed to be the kind of person to not want to see a player walk for nothing. This would be your wish come true.

It’s my understanding that Podkolzin is precisely that cheaper alternative that the Oilers were looking for to remedy an already top-heavy forward group. I fully expect them to now unload a more expensive contract via trade, even if it means giving up more valuable picks to entice a team to take on some cap.
 

With that said, I agree that this is a better scenario than the more Benning-esque route of losing someone for nothing.

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

Nobody had more opportunity to produce on a bad team and with a ton of ice-time than Podkolzin in Vancouver.  He was given every chance to succeed.  If he wanted to stay with the Canucks you'd think he would have scored more than 2 assists in 21 games. What was he waiting for?

That's a bit extreme.

 

Podz played about 10min per game and played lots of time in the bottom 6.

[The Lock]

2 minutes ago, HKSR said:

You're telling me a player doesn't find their game and improves when they hit their mid to late 20s?

 

Tage Thompson is a solid example.  Nazem Kadri is another.  

 

Kadri was a full NHLer by the age or 22/23. Same with Tage Thompson.

 

I didn't realise you thought being 26 was the same thing as being 22. lol

[Dr. Crossbar]

50 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

In all fairness the structure has been completely revamped now. Not sure how much of that was reflective of Johnson and more so shite work from the parent club.

 

Very fair. Johnson has actually done a great job through all the changes. 

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, The Lock said:

 

Kadri was a full NHLer by the age or 22/23. Same with Tage Thompson.

 

I didn't realise you thought being 26 was the same thing as being 22. lol

After 3 seasons and 22yo, Kadri had played 51 games in the NHL and had 19 points to his name.  In his 23yo season he exploded.

 

Thompson did almost nothing until he turned 26.  

[Pure961089]

3 minutes ago, The Lock said:

 

We need higher end draft picks to be able to do that. Having selected only 9 picks in the 1st 3 rounds over the past 6 years kind of sucks. lol

Scouting and drafting picks is only half the job and the only part of development the Benning regime took part in. Actual development of draft picks was a foreign concept.  The current regime has changed the Canucks entire culture of development.  So many great draft picks fell through the Canucks fingers like gold sand because of poor development.   

[The Lock]

Just now, HKSR said:

After 3 seasons and 22yo, Kadri had played 51 games in the NHL and had 19 points to his name.  In his 23yo season he exploded.

 

Thompson did almost nothing until he turned 26.  

 

We're talking about the same Tage Thompson right?

 

The one who got 68 pts in 78 games starting at the age of 23? https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=177831

[The Lock]

Just now, Pure961089 said:

Scouting and drafting picks is only half the job and the only part of development the Benning regime took part in. Actual development of draft picks was a foreign concept.  The current regime has changed the Canucks entire culture of development.  So many great draft picks fell through the Canucks fingers like gold sand because of poor development.   

 

Oh I'm not doubting that, but the higher end picks you have the better chance that better development program has of churning out an NHL player.

[HKSR]

Just now, The Lock said:

 

We're talking about the same Tage Thompson right?

 

The one who got 68 pts in 78 games starting at the age of 23? https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=177831

At 24yo he had 35 points in his NHL career

[The Lock]

Just now, HKSR said:

At 24yo he had 35 points in his NHL career

 

And then got 68 points that season at that age. Again... he broke out at a reasonable pace and not at the age of 26 like Joshua did.

[RWMc1]

I'm not sure that this move is a precursor to another trade. It basically allows us to not have to risk losing Aman to waivers.

[Pure961089]

8 minutes ago, HKSR said:

That's a bit extreme.

 

Podz played about 10min per game and played lots of time in the bottom 6.

I guess it's  an extreme business, you only have a handful of opportunities.  If he couldn't stake his claim on a roster spot with the coaching of Tocchet and the rest of the development staff last year then it wasn't going to happen.  

[HKSR]

Just now, The Lock said:

 

And then got 68 points that season at that age. Again... he broke out at a reasonable pace and not at the age of 26 like Joshua did.

Huh?  I thought we were referring to Podkolzin and how he could still blossom into an impactful player lol.  I've lost track of what the argument was haha

[HKSR]

Just now, Pure961089 said:

I guess it's  an extreme business, you only have a handful of opportunities.  If he couldn't stake his claim on a roster spot with the coaching of Tocchet and the rest of the development staff last year then it wasn't going to happen.  

I'm saying it's extreme to say that he had all the opportunity in the world.  I'd argue he didn't given his ice time and deployment.

[The Lock]

Just now, HKSR said:

Huh?  I thought we were referring to Podkolzin and how he could still blossom into an impactful player lol.  I've lost track of what the argument was haha

 

You're the one who brought up Joshua as a comparable to Podz. lol

 

It's easy to get wrapped up in a debate. I get it. But let's not compare Podz at this point with someone who really was a late bloomer. So many players aren't even in the NHL anymore by the time Joshua got his break.

[HKSR]

Just now, The Lock said:

 

You're the one who brought up Joshua as a comparable to Podz. lol

 

It's easy to get wrapped up in a debate. I get it. But let's not compare Podz at this point with someone who really was a late bloomer. So many players aren't even in the NHL anymore by the time Joshua got his break.

I've been trying to argue that Podkolzin still has a runway to develop further.  I don't think that's a farfetched idea.

[Viking]

38 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Personal first hand knowledge from a person to whom Podz made these statements.

Do you think Klimovich wants a fresh start with a new organization? Seems our management has very little interest in keeping any Russians given the recent trades they have made shipping all them out of town, some to Alberta rivals nonetheless

[Agkr3w]

Wish we had Matt Boldy, sucks. 

[Viking]

6 minutes ago, RWMc1 said:

I'm not sure that this move is a precursor to another trade. It basically allows us to not have to risk losing Aman to waivers.

risk Aman on waivers...the guy is a plug with no offense, we could easily claim someone or even give a Farm player a chance to have the same role as Aman like Bains for example or maybe Karlsson.

 

 

[The Lock]

Just now, HKSR said:

I've been trying to argue that Podkolzin still has a runway to develop further.  I don't think that's a farfetched idea.

 

I'm not going to debate that. Pods could develop Edmonton. Some players need that change of scenery. Hell, even Joshua did. lol

 

But again, it's an exception after a certain point. Let's be clear: not an exception currently given Podz is only 23, but the longer he takes, the less likely he's to become a full time NHLer. If he takes as long as Joshua, THAT is the exception. Does that make sense?