(Trade) Podkolzin to Edmonton

[BigTramFan]

4 minutes ago, tas said:

aman is a center and the team seems high on him. not surprised they kept him over podkolzin. 

He's likely the 13th forward on this team because we only have 4 centers (Miller, EP, Suter, Blueger) so will need a backup C on the roster

[Hogs and Podz]

3 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

I think it's possible now that Mikheyev has been traded. the PK could use his battle and speed.  Tocch though likes PKrs with reach like Joshua and Myers.  If DeBrusk's time is going to be on the PP his PK time will be limited. Hogs will get an opportunity.

You sound as hopefully as I felt about Podz.  If the team didn't have Garly then he'd have a defined roll, but that's not the case unless he adds more to his game.  He'd have value to another team.  We could get more for him.... but I hope he shows growth in camp... allowing Garly or Joshua to move up the lineup... 

[GrammaInTheTub]

11 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

why cant the bottom 6 look like this?

Garland - Heinen - Joshua

Hoglander - Suter - Sherwood

Because 5 out of 6 of those guys arguably deserve a spot in the top 6 over Blueger

[Hogs and Podz]

12 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

why cant the bottom 6 look like this?

Garland - Heinen - Joshua

Hoglander - Suter - Sherwood

Where's Bluegar? 

[NMHockey]

People can't see that this is essentially 

Podkolzin for Desharnais and OTTs 4th this season. Especially with Podkolzin and Desharnais both now being on 2 year contracts. With OTTs success-rate the last few years this is basically

Podkolzin for Desharnais and a low 3rd.

Not to mention that Allvin has something else in the works most likely.

Bravo management!

[Pure961089]

1 minute ago, tas said:

the problem is that it's hard to have room for guys like that. if you don't play on special teams, you need to be absolutely exceptional or it's unlikely you're going to last long, because sooner than later someone else is going to come along who can do what you can at even strength but also contribute on special teams. 

Hoglander was among the team leaders in even strength goals, 1 less than Miller and tied with Boeser.  You need more even strength players like Hogs not less.  His development and evolution under Tocchet and the development staff on both ends of the ice, the improvements have been nothing short of amazing. 

[Devron]

2 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

People can't see that this is essentially 

Podkolzin for Desharnais and OTTs 4th this season. Especially with Podkolzin and Desharnais both now being on 2 year contracts. With OTTs success-rate the last few years this is basically

Podkolzin for Desharnais and a low 3rd.

Not to mention that Allvin has something else in the works most likely.

Bravo management!

No it’s not. Desharnais was a free agent. Why would we sugar coat this? It’s Podkolzin for a 4th nothing more, nothing less.

[Pure961089]

5 minutes ago, Hogs and Podz said:

You sound as hopefully as I felt about Podz.  If the team didn't have Garly then he'd have a defined roll, but that's not the case unless he adds more to his game.  He'd have value to another team.  We could get more for him.... but I hope he shows growth in camp... allowing Garly or Joshua to move up the lineup... 

We all felt hopeful about Podz but his drive to the net wasn't as determined as other bottom 6 players on the team. 

[Pure961089]

6 minutes ago, Hogs and Podz said:

Where's Bluegar? 

Blueger would be the 13th forward because I have Lekkerimaki penciled in with DeBrusk and Petey lol. but more realistically Heinen would be playing on the wing with Boeser and Miller. that would put Bluger back on the 3rd line with Joshua and Garly but who knows how the lines are gonna shake out.  there are so many possibilities. 

[tas]

8 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

Hoglander was among the team leaders in even strength goals, 1 less than Miller and tied with Boeser.  You need more even strength players like Hogs not less.  His development and evolution under Tocchet and the development staff on both ends of the ice, the improvements have been nothing short of amazing. 

they've been short of amazing. 

 

but still, his even strength play (in the bottom six -- definitely not in the top six) was great. still, hard to have room for guys that don't play pp or pk. 

[Pure961089]

42 minutes ago, tas said:

I agree I prefer hoglander driving a bottom 6 line. but I also want my bottom 6 guys killing penalties. 

Tocchet has so many options, Sherwood. Joshua, Heinen, Blueger ecc

[Hogs and Podz]

Just now, Pure961089 said:

We all felt hopeful about Podz but his drive to the net wasn't as determined as other bottom 6 players on the team. 

exactly... so what I'm saying is... Podz though he has the traits the team needed in potential, never had that potential realized.  Hogs has come a long way but unfortunately for him, Garly is a similar player but has already cemented himself in the lineup.  And like Garly, Hogs is small and has to play larger than he is.  Hogs going up against Garly, Sherwood, Sprong or Suter.  I would say Suter he has a chance to beat out but Tocc loves suter and he plays center.  Maybe sprong?... but they just got him. So where will he stick? 

[Gawdzukes]

3 hours ago, HKSR said:

If the plan is to trade any of our prospects that haven't hit their stride after JUST turning 23 for a 4th round pick, I can guarantee we will lose out on some very good hockey players.  Heck, we would have lost Hoglander.

 

Umm, nope. They were drafted at the same time. If Hogs did nothing last year and produced 2 points in the NHL he'd be in the same boat on the outside looking in. They are both 23 years old. The difference is Hoglander showed up last year and Podkolzin did not progress.

 

Reality is you simply can't keep a waiver eligible player if you send them down and someone else claims them. That's the rules. He's obviously not good enough to make the team. It's pretty simple really.

 

Are you under the impression that competitive teams keep all of their under performing players until they are 25 or 26? They don't, sorry.

[Pure961089]

1 minute ago, Hogs and Podz said:

exactly... so what I'm saying is... Podz though he has the traits the team needed in potential, never had that potential realized.  Hogs has come a long way but unfortunately for him, Garly is a similar player but has already cemented himself in the lineup.  And like Garly, Hogs is small and has to play larger than he is.  Hogs going up against Garly, Sherwood, Sprong or Suter.  I would say Suter he has a chance to beat out but Tocc loves suter and he plays center.  Maybe sprong?... but they just got him. So where will he stick? 

Heinen Miller Boeser

DeBrusk Petey Sprong

Garland Blueger Joshua

Hoglander Suter Sherwood 

 

now that's a deep team and a pain to deal with.  and its not the size of the dog in a fight its the size of the fight in the dog.  And both Garland and Hogs have a ton of fight,  

[tas]

the math is easy:

 

you need bare minimum 6 and ideally 8 regular powerplay forwards and at least 3 regular penalty kill forward pairs. 

 

how many of the 12 forward slots are left for guys who do neither?

[Pure961089]

3 hours ago, HKSR said:

If the plan is to trade any of our prospects that haven't hit their stride after JUST turning 23 for a 4th round pick, I can guarantee we will lose out on some very good hockey players.  Heck, we would have lost Hoglander.

it couldn't be helped he's not better than the top 12 players we currently have and keeping him to the detriment of the team just because of fear he'll be picked off waivers isn't a good enough reason.  The Canucks are past the stage where they can let a player take a roster spot that didn't play better than other players.

[IBatch]

54 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

and neither of them played well.. ahl wise they are on a very similar ppg basis and podz came off the horrific injury. i don't think hoglander outplayed podz in the preseason and tbh i don't think podz is a worse option than PDG on that top line with miller.. sure he hasn't earned it.. but neither did pdg

Suter definitely was the best player with Miller and Brock.   Can't say it's on the club for development, given the commitment to the KHL was built in with the draft pick, and what Colliton has managed at the AHL level with who he's got (roster).  Podz lost most of last years season due to his hospitalization and conscussion, bad luck for sure.   PDG wouldn't get us anything.    And at this venture, brass considers a better option, probably Bains too.   It's truly too bad, given he was supposed to go as high as 3rd.    His floor is high, ceiling low.    If he can get things together, for sure has a shot with EDM, or somewhere else.    

 

Podz played a couple hundred minutes Green/Bruce year, got looks with EP, Horvat and Miller.  100 minutes is a tryout ... best lines play 400 or more with each other.   Even Brock played all over the place, only 200 and change with Miller his 99 point season.    In short he's had middle six time.   Nothing came from it, and we don't know what is going on at camp either.    What happens next likely will be part of this trade too.   Said it a couple months ago, there is no room for both Hogs and Podz together on this team, that was before Sprong.    Kind of blows too.   But that's part of having some success, they keep piling on success as the main metric.   And after whole lot of time trying to manage assets, losing him to waivers < Ottawa's fourth rounder. 

[Pure961089]

Roster spots have to be earned based on merit, not from a place of fear.  Canucks can't operate like that.  That's a Benning regime thing that would happen  

[tas]

28 minutes ago, NMHockey said:

People can't see that this is essentially 

Podkolzin for Desharnais and OTTs 4th this season. Especially with Podkolzin and Desharnais both now being on 2 year contracts. With OTTs success-rate the last few years this is basically

Podkolzin for Desharnais and a low 3rd.

Not to mention that Allvin has something else in the works most likely.

Bravo management!

weird spin. desharnais signing as a ufa doesn't enter this equation. 

[Pure961089]

5 hours ago, RomanPer said:

Finally. Wanted to see this putin lover gone for a while. Really don't care what the return was. And before you ask "why do you assume he's putin lover?" - I don't assume, I know. He openly supports the war in Ukraine (within the team locker room) and calls Ukrainians "khokhols" (which is a derogatory term for Ukrainians in russian language).

Politics should never be allowed in hockey imo.  it just takes away from the players and the team.  I don't care what they do in their spare time.  it's what they do on the ice that matters.

Edited August 19 by Pure961089

[Hogs and Podz]

12 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

Heinen Miller Boeser

DeBrusk Petey Sprong

Garland Blueger Joshua

Hoglander Suter Sherwood 

 

now that's a deep team and a pain to deal with.  and its not the size of the dog in a fight its the size of the fight in the dog.  And both Garland and Hogs have a ton of fight,  

that lineup works for me... this is of course Lekkerimaki isn't making the team. 

[Pure961089]

2 minutes ago, Hogs and Podz said:

that lineup works for me... this is of course Lekkerimaki isn't making the team. 

I'd love it if Lekkerimaki did make the team though.  he would make the team more dangerous

Edited August 19 by Pure961089

[Johngould21]

28 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

Blueger would be the 13th forward because I have Lekkerimaki penciled in with DeBrusk and Petey lol. but more realistically Heinen would be playing on the wing with Boeser and Miller. that would put Bluger back on the 3rd line with Joshua and Garly but who knows how the lines are gonna shake out.  there are so many possibilities. 

Blueger makes this team hands down.

[Hogs and Podz]

9 minutes ago, IBatch said:

What happens next likely will be part of this trade too.   Said it a couple months ago, there is no room for both Hogs and Podz together on this team, that was before Sprong.    Kind of blows too.   But that's part of having some success, they keep piling on success as the main metric.   And after whole lot of time trying to manage assets, losing him to waivers < Ottawa's fourth rounder. 

oww.... that hurts but probably how management see it too.  

[Gawdzukes]

3 hours ago, RJCF96 said:

We are not a rebuliding team where we can afford to put a younger player in the line up and allow them to figure things out at the NHL level anymore.

 

The goal for this team is to compete for a another division title and go for a deep playoff run next season. They have to ice the best possible line-up. Getting rid-off PDG through waivers does not guarantee ice-time for Podkolzin. He might be behind both Karlsson and Aman in the depth chart. And there is an outside chance that Saxson, Bains, Raty making a push for that spot as well. If we keep him up in the NHL and have him sit in the press-box is not good for his development.

 

Great post. We are in the competitive cycle portion, not developing underwhelming players on the big club at the expense of winning.

 

3 hours ago, HKSR said:

He only played 48 games in the NHL before the Canucks acquired him for Lockwood and a 7th.  He then had a 16 game stint with the Canucks and put up 1 goal and 1 assist.  At 24yo, Kravtsov was done in the NHL.

 

Podkolzin in the same time frame of 3 seasons played 137 games and 35 points.  He just turned 23yo 2 months ago.  At a minimum, we should have given him 1 more season IMO.

 

Why don't you just say he's 23 lol?

 

3 hours ago, HKSR said:

And there'd be 20 to 30 other players on the waiver wire as well to pick from.  Guarantee Podkolzin wouldn't be the best player of that bunch.

 

You really have no way of knowing any of this. It is very reasonable to expect a bottom feeder to give him a chance if they have space. But obviously management didn't think it was worth the bother to find out. Should really tell you where our coaches and GM are on the the player.

 

3 hours ago, The Lock said:

 

Every transaction we do, every player we trade away, every player we trade for, every player we sign... they all have risks. Could Debrusk or Heinan flop? Sure. Could keeping Hogs here even flop? Sure. Could not having signed Zadorov for 5mil flop? Sure.

 

So when you say it's a risky move... everything's a risky move. That's what happens when you deal with intangibles.

 

Is it really worth the ulcer in the end if we worried about every "risky move"? Also, is it really the risk you're worried about or is it just an attachment you had to that player? It's not wrong to have an attachment so long as you're true to yourself about it.

 

Definitely looks like some attachment with folks which is fine but he just didn't perform when he had to. He has been my avatar and profile pic in many different forms. I met him and talked to him at length at a young stars game and have cheered and supported him from day one. Reality is he ran out of time to so something useful.

 

3 hours ago, Pure961089 said:

Remember when the Canucks signed Filip Johansson? Drafted in the 1st round, 24th overall by the Wild?  The Wild gave up on a young defenceman (22 y/o) and the Canucks gave him a chance.  He didn't pan out.  There will be many give and takes of young players for the Canucks, Johansson and Podkolzin are just 2 of many young kids that were drafted high, given a chance by other teams and failed to deliver.  They're not the first and won't be the last.

 

Yeah I'm not sure how people don't understand you can't just keep all your draft picks until they emerge. Could you imagine if we were still trying out players like Juolevi, Gaunce, Cassels, Subban, and Virtanen. That would be silly.

 

3 hours ago, HKSR said:

Years of experience in the NHL.  Same 3 years for both.  One we are giving up on.  The other we didn't.  Turned out pretty well for not giving up on said player, no?

 

Yeah both had 3 years and one player scored 24 goals and one player had zero. Surely you can see the difference here.