(Trade) Podkolzin to Edmonton

[tas]

2 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Again, subjectively. This is purely your opinion as of right now, this is not objective. You can't say this is trade is factually a net positive for the Canucks. The 4th could be another Gardner or Kunz and Podkolzin could be a serviceable bottom 6 forward on a rival team. That would make this a bad trade. Therefore, it's not objectively a good trade. 

i didn't say it's objectively a good trade, I said objectively podkolzin was worth a 4th rounder to the canucks, which is an inarguable fact, since that's what they turned him into. period. 

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, RJCF96 said:

I think a lot of fans here over-values Podkolzin.

 

He hasn't shown progress (in fact, shown a lot of regression) since his rookie season. Unfortunate development path for him, I think he could've been a more established NHLer by now if he came over the North American immediately after he got drafted instead of playing very little minutes in the KHL in Russia.

 

When he finally arrived here, he had a decent rookie season but in reality, he likely would've been better to spend some time in the AHL for some seasoning. Unfortunately, at the time, it was before this current management regime and our farm system was still a disaster from the Jim Benning era.

 

By the time he finally got some AHL development time over the last 2 seasons, I think we've missed out on the best window/opportunity for his development.

 

A lot of our fans still saw him as a top 10 pick in the draft, but that's not his value at this point of his career. The season before last, we picked up Vitali Kravtsov (9th OA pick from 2018 draft) from the Rangers for Lockwood + 7th round pick. Podkolzin is also waiver exempt, which means if we want to send him down to the AHL, he must go through waivers and he likely won't make it through and we would've lost him for nothing.

 

At this point of his career, GMs see him as a player who can be an effective bottom 6 players who brings energy to the team. These players are a dime in a dozen, but Podkolzin's value remains because he was a former top 10 pick hence he still have some trade value, and we can get a draft pick in return.

 

I wish Podkolzin the best as he appears to be a great person with a great attitude and I hope he can carve out an NHL career. However, I don't believe he would not be a player who moves the needle either way.

 

He just turned 22

[Grankåda]

13 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Thomas Gradin is allowed a 'mulligan' here & there (eg., Edler, Ohlund, Sedins).  If I'm not mistaken, Rahimi *did* end up being a captain of his team in the SEL?  So there was talent/skill there (it just didn't translate to the NHL level).

Mainly an IQ issue. Decent player against other muscle but barely SHL ability overall in the end.

[Bob Long]

16 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Doesn't a good GM try for the best deal they can? 

What saddens me is that it is quite possible a 4th rounder might have truly been the best offer. It wasn't like Podz was dominating in the AHL or in his time in the NHL. 

 

No bottom feeders would likely give us anything, they'd wait for waivers. Most contenders don't need him. A dozen guys like him will be available soon. So I guess the market price is what it was. 

 

It's disappointingly low. 

 

I actually feel bad for Podz, he could easily end up in Bakersfield with his young family up in frozen hell. 

[tas]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

No bottom feeders would likely give us anything, they'd wait for waivers. Most contenders don't need him. A dozen guys like him will be available soon. So I guess the market price is what it was. 

 

It's disappointingly low. 

 

I actually feel bad for Podz, he could easily end up in Bakersfield with his young family up in frozen hell. 

that's the thing, "worth" is defined either by how you use the player or what you can get for him. its easy to say podkolzin was "worth" more than a 4th rounder, but only if you're pulling information out of your ass, because 100% of the evidence points towards him only being worth a 4th. 

[MeanSeanBean]

1 minute ago, tas said:

i didn't say it's objectively a good trade, I said objectively podkolzin was worth a 4th rounder to the canucks, which is an inarguable fact, since that's what they turned him into. period. 

Again, it's not. If Podkolzin becomes a serviceable bottom 6 players for the team who is arguably our biggest rival getting out of the Western Conference, that's not worth a 4th round pick.

 

I'd trade a 4th round pick for any advantage in the playoffs over the team that knocked us our a few months ago, any day of the week.

[KFAN]

Picking him at 10th overall was another bad move by Benning. I really thought he would eventually show up, but it obviously wasn't to be in Vancouver. I wish him the best.

[tas]

4 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Again, it's not. If Podkolzin becomes a serviceable bottom 6 players for the team who is arguably our biggest rival getting out of the Western Conference, that's not worth a 4th round pick.

 

I'd trade a 4th round pick for any advantage in the playoffs over the team that knocked us our a few months ago, any day of the week.

I've never been an "asset management" guy but consciously choosing to lose a fairly recent top 10 pick for nothing instead of recouping a pick for him because you're hung up on what another team is doing is silly. 

 

edit: and yes, objectively. podkolzin's worth to the canucks is now etched in stone, nothing that happens in the future matters. he wasn't going to have an opportunity to further define his worth with the canucks because he wasn't going to make the team and was going to be lost on waivers. 

Edited August 19 by tas

[EternalCanuckFan]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

No bottom feeders would likely give us anything, they'd wait for waivers. Most contenders don't need him. A dozen guys like him will be available soon. So I guess the market price is what it was. 

 

It's disappointingly low. 

 

I actually feel bad for Podz, he could easily end up in Bakersfield with his young family up in frozen hell. 

Definitely disappointed with the return but as much as I have been rooting for Podz, he hasn't really done much to justify a much higher return notwithstanding when he was drafted. Even at this point the hope has been to see Podz at least become a somewhat productive bottom 6 player. He still has potential to exceed that, but that seems less likely at this point.

 

This might have already been mentioned but I wonder if Podz's young family also factored into the trade being done early. EDM acquired Podz despite presumably knowing about his waiver eligibility so I think one would expect them to believe Podz will stick in the NHL. In that case, it gives Podz's family time to move and settle into EDM before training camp and the season starts. This is aside from the Canucks avoiding losing Podz on waivers for nothing.

 

As far as EDM's interest in Podz is concerned, I had initially thought that maybe EDM was planning to let Holloway go. I'm now thinking maybe EDM sees Podz as a player that can fill in for Evander Kane, at least as far as injecting speed and physicality into the lineup. Kane isn't really a top-6 player anymore anyway, and he might spend nearly all of this coming season on LTIR. Podz won't have to do much except play sound hockey in their bottom 6 but also has potential to play higher up the lineup, so it's a decent bet by them (annoyingly so).

[Darth Canuck]

Question:

before Podz was traded, Canucks had like 15k in cap space. Podz carried a 1 million cap hit. Puck Pedia is now showing us with $190k in cap space. 
 

can someone explain that math to me? 

[Bure10Kuzmenko96]

45 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

Yeah. There's a lot of factors involved and we helped a DIVISION rival (who competed against us in the playoffs!) out of their cap space jam while being unable to shed cap on our own.

 

The 4th round pick of 2026 is extremely low and this allows the Oilers to walk away from Holloway for a 3rd round pick (2025) while saving $1.29 million in cap space. After trading Ceci, which SJ coughed up a prospect for cap space, Edmonton can now keep Broberg for a while.

 

Bowman is gonna look like a genius just because two GMs made two bonehead decisions.

It's a 2025 4th round pick and it's Ottawa's 4th not Edmonton’s

[MeanSeanBean]

1 minute ago, tas said:

I've never been an "asset management" guy but consciously choosing to lose a fairly recent top 10 pick for nothing instead of recouping a pick for him because you're hung up on what another team is doing is silly. 

It's 2 fold. This trade has a much higher potential of working out well for the Oilers then the Canucks. Therefore I don't think this is good value for the Canucks. I also don't think you've provided anything compelling enough to justify calling another person's opinion "objectively wrong"

[Bure10Kuzmenko96]

41 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

No. He's not wrong. The compensatory pick that the Oilers get is a higher pick than what the Canucks receive from this trade. This hurts the Canucks as we are helping a division rival who NEEDS to shed cap space and they give us a crappy 4th round pick from 2026. 2026. Think about that for a moment.

2025!!!

[CanucksJay]

19 minutes ago, tas said:

exactly, and they'll be the ones losing the player for nothing while we got their 4th rounded for him. 

But what if he surprises at their camp and plays really well? Perhaps outplaying guys like Perry etc? Then they get to waive a more expensive player and save cap space while ultimately improving their roster. I do not want us to take part in helping them at all. 

I can't believe no other bottom feeding team would trade a4th for Podz. He'll I would rather trade him to Cgy even

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, EternalCanuckFan said:

Definitely disappointed with the return but as much as I have been rooting for Podz, he hasn't really done much to justify a much higher return notwithstanding when he was drafted. Even at this point the hope has been to see Podz at least become a somewhat productive bottom 6 player. He still has potential to exceed that, but that seems less likely at this point.

 

This might have already been mentioned but I wonder if Podz's young family also factored into the trade being done early. EDM acquired Podz despite presumably knowing about his waiver eligibility so I think one would expect them to believe Podz will stick in the NHL. In that case, it gives Podz's family time to move and settle into EDM before training camp and the season starts. This is aside from the Canucks avoiding losing Podz on waivers for nothing.

 

As far as EDM's interest in Podz is concerned, I had initially thought that maybe EDM was planning to let Holloway go. I'm now thinking maybe EDM sees Podz as a player that can fill in for Evander Kane, at least as far as injecting speed and physicality into the lineup. Kane isn't really a top-6 player anymore anyway, and he might spend nearly all of this coming season on LTIR. Podz won't have to do much except play sound hockey in their bottom 6 but also has potential to play higher up the lineup, so it's a decent bet by them (annoyingly so).

 

That's an interesting take, never thought of him as a temporary Kane replacement.

[stawns]

10 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Again, it's not. If Podkolzin becomes a serviceable bottom 6 players for the team who is arguably our biggest rival getting out of the Western Conference, that's not worth a 4th round pick.

 

I'd trade a 4th round pick for any advantage in the playoffs over the team that knocked us our a few months ago, any day of the week.

 

Not to mention he just turned 22...... He's got plenty of time to still grow into a legit top 6.  

 

[RJCF96]

15 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

He just turned 22

Age doesn't matter if the player is waiver exempt and has yet to carve out a full time role at the NHL level. That's the player's trade value. Also, he is currently 23, not 22.

[Dr. Crossbar]

12 minutes ago, Bure10Kuzmenko96 said:

It's a 2025 4th round pick and it's Ottawa's 4th not Edmonton’s

 

May the 4th be with us ...

 

[Rekker]

31 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

Maybe, just maybe, Podz himself wanted a fresh start. 

Yip, could be.

[Bure10Kuzmenko96]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

May the 4th be with us ...

 

[stawns]

12 minutes ago, RJCF96 said:

Age doesn't matter if the player is waiver exempt and has yet to carve out a full time role at the NHL level. That's the player's trade value. Also, he is currently 23, not 22.

 

Of course it matters.  If you have a 21-22 year old former 10th overall, you find a way to keep him in the lineup and continue to develop him do that you have both a cheap, young player in the lineup and some kind of succession plan so you can move on from high priced, older players

[The Lock]

20 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

It's 2 fold. This trade has a much higher potential of working out well for the Oilers then the Canucks. Therefore I don't think this is good value for the Canucks. I also don't think you've provided anything compelling enough to justify calling another person's opinion "objectively wrong"

 

If you had the choice, would you choose to let a player go for nothing through waivers or trade that player away for at least something?

 

Clearly whomever was going to trade for Podkolzin was going to win this deal on the surface. However, you have to stop thinking about him being 10th overall and think more about how he wasn't going to make the team. Sometimes you have to take that loss and get something for it if you're going to lose the player anyway.

 

And I fail to see how a player, who wasn't going to make the team here, who might not even make Edmonton's team, really matters whether they're a divisional rival or not. Whatever happens after this trade, whether Podz thrives in Edmonton or is a bust, is not on us at this point. Division rival really doesn't matter with this when he's the same gamble as any other player Edmonton picks up that may or may not work.

Edited August 19 by The Lock

[Hammertime]

11 hours ago, Grandmaster said:

This. 
 

We need to move on. Pods was not going to make our line up. 
 

I’m sure they tried to get more. They got what they could and the Oilers were probably the only team that offered anything.
 

At least we now sit at around 3.5M in Cap space with Poolman’s 2.5M LTIR. This means that at around the time of the TDL, it would equate to an 8-9M player that could come our way later. That could turn us from contenders to favourites. 

Uh pod made a Mill. If you replace him with Karlsson Or whomever the only cap savings is the difference in cap. 

[tas]

19 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

It's 2 fold. This trade has a much higher potential of working out well for the Oilers then the Canucks. Therefore I don't think this is good value for the Canucks. I also don't think you've provided anything compelling enough to justify calling another person's opinion "objectively wrong"

its objectively wrong because it's not something that you can have an opinion on anymore, it's a fact. not open to debate or interpretation.

 

answer one simple question: would you rather lose podkolzin to the sharks for nothing in early october or get a 4th rounder for him from edmonton (who are probably going to then turn around and lose him for nothing in early october) in mid august?

[The Lock]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Of course it matters.  If you have a 21-22 year old former 10th overall, you find a way to keep him in the lineup and continue to develop him do that you have both a cheap, young player in the lineup and some kind of succession plan so you can move on from high priced, older players

 

You're fixated on the past. He's not the same as he was when he was 10th overall. The guy wasn't 13th overall on our forward list and if we're to force him onto the roster otherwise when there are better players?.... no thanks.