MeanSeanBean Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 3 minutes ago, The Lock said: If you had the choice, would you choose to let a player go for nothing through waivers or trade that player away for at least something? Clearly whomever was going to trade for Podkolzin was going to win this deal on the surface. However, you have to stop thinking about him being 10th overall and think more about how he wasn't going to make the team. Sometimes you have to take that loss and get something for it if you're going to lose the player anyway. And I fail to see how a player, who wasn't going to make the team here, who might not even make Edmonton's team, really matters whether they're a divisional rival or not. Whatever happens after this trade, whether Podz thrives in Edmonton or is a bust, is not on us at this point. Division rival really doesn't matter with this when he's the same gamble as any other player Edmonton picks up that may or may not work. Disagree on the last statement. Division rival does matter to me. I currently view Edmonton as our biggest hurdle to get out of the west. I'd rather let him walk for free, then possibly help them for a pick that has an under 10% chance of ever playing a NHL game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 So now that podz is officially gone.. which teams have a worse drafting record drafting in the top 10 the last 10 years? We had 5 and failed on 3 of them for a 40% success rate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 1 minute ago, MeanSeanBean said: Disagree on the last statement. Division rival does matter to me. I currently view Edmonton as our biggest hurdle to get out of the west. I'd rather let him walk for free, then possibly help them for a pick that has an under 10% chance of ever playing a NHL game. silly. making decisions out of fear. letting edmonton live in your head rent free. I'm not worried about edmonton. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogs and Podz Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 People here seem to keep saying he wasn't going to make the team... to justify the trade. If a 4th was the only or best offer, they should have given him the opportunity to see one last time if he would have beat out a Sprong or better. If not put him on wavers... fuck the 4th! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 8 hours ago, CaribouCanuck said: Are all the people flipping out over this trade also the same people who were flipping out over the Eddie Lack and Hunter Shinkaruk trades?. I don’t understand why a substantial portion of Canuck nation always develops such an emotional attachment to random no name plugs and spare parts. For me, its the fact Podkolzin was drafted 10th overall. He is still young & I guess I was also hoping Podkolzin would develop similarly to V. Nichuskin another former 10th overall pick Russian forward with size. Dallas moved on from Nichuskin after he had 0g 10a in 57gp at age 24. He joined Colorado(has had some issues off ice) but a couple years of developing in Colorado and he turned himself into a very good player who has been a key playoff performer for the Avs... That is what I am concerned about giving up on a player too early...especially to a division rival we just lost too in the playoffs in Edm...like WTF Alvin...!?!? Obviously, I now hope Pod ends up like Yakupov when he went to St Louis then goes to Russia and never comes back... I am of the mind that prospects drafted in the early rounds should have a longer leash and yes it might mean you allow them to slowly develop till say age 25... If we wanted to clear cap space why not move P.Suter or N. Aman- Aman is never going to be anything of note so before I would have traded Podkolzin I would have traded or waive: Aman, PDG, P.Suter. Thats 3 current or last season NHL F I would move before shipping Podkolzin out in a trade and literally only an overpayment should have seen us trade with Edm... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Just now, MeanSeanBean said: Disagree on the last statement. Division rival does matter to me. I currently view Edmonton as our biggest hurdle to get out of the west. I'd rather let him walk for free, then possibly help them for a pick that has an under 10% chance of ever playing a NHL game. Fair enough if division rival matters to you, but Podz is highly unlikely to be the difference maker in whether or not we beat Edmonton, at least not with his current projection. He might not even make the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olli Juolevi Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 15 hours ago, nuckin_futz said: We created about 30 pages of discussion in 2 hours when we acquired Emersen Etem. It's what we do. Are you suggesting that I was wrong to watch this video like fifteen times and convince myself we'd acquired a star? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Canuck Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 4 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: So now that podz is officially gone.. which teams have a worse drafting record drafting in the top 10 the last 10 years? We had 5 and failed on 3 of them for a 40% success rate But one of the best D men who ever played this game so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 (edited) Interesting to see that management will trade players for magic beans-despite how bad a rap those beans get, from many, on this forum. Edited August 19 by Gurn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Canuck Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 11 minutes ago, Hammertime said: Uh pod made a Mill. If you replace him with Karlsson Or whomever the only cap savings is the difference in cap. And with this difference the canucks are under the cap without using LTIR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 2 minutes ago, tas said: its objectively wrong because it's not something that you can have an opinion on anymore, it's a fact. not open to debate or interpretation. answer one simple question: would you rather lose podkolzin to the sharks for nothing in early october or get a 4th rounder for him from edmonton (who are probably going to then turn around and lose him for nothing in early october) in mid august? Yes. If Podkolzin benefits the Oilers I would have rather let him go for nothing to a team that is no threat to us. A 4th round pick does not hold a higher value to me then helping out the current front runner to exit victorious in the West Conference. I want the Canucks to win the cup. This trade as it stands does more to jeopardize that, however minimally, then increase our chances. It's entirely possible Podkolzin is a bust and the 4th rounder ends up being the best asset in the trade. But I think there is a higher chance that Podkolzin is a serviceable player for the Oilers and helps them more then the 4th rounder helps us. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 6 minutes ago, The Lock said: Fair enough if division rival matters to you, but Podz is highly unlikely to be the difference maker in whether or not we beat Edmonton, at least not with his current projection. He might not even make the team. Definitely matters to me. The Canucks just lost to the Oilers in the playoffs, so I currently view them as our biggest hurdle to getting back to the finals. I don't like potentially helping them for what I find to be a very minimally upside trade for us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 1 minute ago, Gurn said: Interesting to see that management will trade players for magic beans-despite how bad a rap those beans get on this forum. Let's be clear that a 4th isn't a lot. lol However, I tend to look more at the value of having that pick as a sweetener in a trade more than I do the actual drafting percentage. That seems to be more the value of such picks in my mind. The actual drafting percentage is crap by the time the 4th round hits. lol 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 1 hour ago, tas said: how is losing him on waivers for nothing better than getting a pick for him? Would we lose him on waivers? A 4th 2 years from now is nice and all but it's hardly enough value that I'd lose any sleep on the very low chance of him being claimed during the flood of preseason waivers. Clearly this is about the contract slot, but for whom? I maintain it makes little sense to move him for barely more than nothing, unless you have a follow up move to use that contract slot for someone else. There has to be another move here. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 7 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said: I would have thought he'd be worth more than a fourth, but that's business perhaps. BUT, what I can't understand at all is how they help Edmonton out of this jam..... He's worth less than a fourth realistically, we got lucky Edmonton was desperate. 7 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said: Helping the Oil get out of a jam here with the offer sheets is concerning. We didn't help them at all by adding salary to their cap. The opposite actually. We gained a fourth and a spot in a crowded dressing room. 2 hours ago, DexM94 said: I would have keep him as a 13th if he failed to break the roster at camp.. We were already cap compliant. first guy to replace a winger when injuries occur. tell me why we keep Aman or PdG. Even Suter had his chance on top 6 for a long time… i wanted to see a DeBrusk Petey Podz line. The guy cost us 1M… fir the next two years. A bargain. And we keep Suter at 1.6… You don't just keep crappy players as your 13th player to protect their waiver status. Terrible management, we're trying to win hockey games here. 1 hour ago, Bob Long said: I'm more just disappointed that Podz couldn't make the next step more than anything. Edm will be worse thanks to st Louis so I don't really care about that part. This is on Pods, he just didn't get any better. He got worse. Yup! Edmonton sucks! 35 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: Doesn't a good GM try for the best deal they can? What saddens me is that it is quite possible a 4th rounder might have truly been the best offer. It wasn't like Podz was dominating in the AHL or in his time in the NHL. @DexM94 Definitely the best offer they got. I woke up thinking about the trade so I felt I should try to asses the situation realistically. He's a waiver eligible asset, who has severely declined from a mediocre 26 point rookie season 3 years ago. He has 9 points since. He has no spot and very little chance to make this team. Let's be honest, he was 95% out the door already. All of our new acquisitions are far better players. Why would anyone think he's worth anything more or that we should jump hoops to try to keep him. Because we're not used to how real hockey works after Benning? That's how hockey works, you get drafted, you have until waiver eligibility to make it or suffer the consequences. He didn't. Simple as that. These are other players in the first round of 2019 and 2018 drafts with similar paths/poor results to him. Turcotte, Soderstrom, Lassi Thomson, Heinola, Samuel Poulin, Bjornfot, Brayden Tracey, John Beecher, Ryan Johnson (D), Kravstov, Denisenko, Martin Kaut, Liam Foudy, Ryan Merkely, JBD, Nicolas Beaudin. There are many other failures in lower rounds, previous, and following drafts. Is anyone bucking up high Canuck picks for these guys? If not why on earth would anyone think we should get more back for a completely stalled player who has run his elc course? Some people's sense of the value of our prospects is totally overblown. Unfortunately he was a blown pick like 80% of all draftees. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 (edited) 3 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said: Definitely matters to me. The Canucks just lost to the Oilers in the playoffs, so I currently view them as our biggest hurdle to getting back to the finals. I don't like potentially helping them for what I find to be a very minimally upside trade for us. If nothing else, think of Podz as just a project Edmonton acquired. Ignore the fact that he came from us and compare him to other projects. Do you still see a threat if you ignore the fact that he came from us or is it just like any other minor player Edmonton acquires in an offseason? Think of him as when we acquired Parent or Pouliot or Etem.... Edited August 19 by The Lock 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Alflives Posted August 19 Popular Post Share Posted August 19 Just now, MeanSeanBean said: Definitely matters to me. The Canucks just lost to the Oilers in the playoffs, so I currently view them as our biggest hurdle to getting back to the finals. I don't like potentially helping them for what I find to be a very minimally upside trade for us. Podz isn’t a difference maker. Demko plays and we win that series and the Cup. Keep our star players and support them well. Podz isn’t as good as other players in a supporting role. As @Bob Long pointed out, Podz is pretty much Gaunce. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 8 minutes ago, German Canuck said: But one of the best D men who ever played this game so far I mean that’s like saying Edmonton drafted so well because they got mcdavid and drai.. and just skipped all the failure they had 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 2 minutes ago, aGENT said: Would we lose him on waivers? A 4th 2 years from now is nice and all but it's hardly enough value that I'd lose any sleep on the very low chance of him being claimed during the flood of preseason waivers. Clearly this is about the contract slot, but for whom? I maintain it makes little sense to move him for barely more than nothing, unless you have a follow up move to use that contract slot for someone else. There has to be another move here. Late summer free agent signing? Who’s out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EB43 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 10 hours ago, iinatcc said: But, if he doesn't have what it takes,why would anyone expect a decent return then? To live up to a 10th overall pick, still thought at this point he would have a little more trade value, but clearly he didn’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJCF96 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 1 minute ago, stawns said: Of course it matters. If you have a 21-22 year old former 10th overall, you find a way to keep him in the lineup and continue to develop him do that you have both a cheap, young player in the lineup and some kind of succession plan so you can move on from high priced, older players He isn't 21-22, he is 23 and he is waiver eligible. His value isn't simply based on age and draft position, but also what he has shown at the NHL level and what GMs across the league believes his potential to be. Waiver status matters more when it comes to a young player. To develop a player, the team needs the flexibility to be able to send him to the minors without going through waivers. At this point of Podkolzin's career, his biggest barrier is his waiver status, which means the team can lose him for nothing if he doesn't make the team out of camp as one of the top 13 forwards named to the opening night roster. We could lose this player for nothing in a little over a month and we just got back a draft pick. As of now here is what our forward group looks like going into next season (if everyone is healthy): Heinen - Miller - Boeser Debrusk - Pettersson - Sprong Joshua - Blueger - Garland Hoglander - Suter - Sherwood Aman/PDG/Karlsson I don't see Podkolzin beatitng out any of the top 12 forwards listed. Podkolzin's best chance is the 13th forward position. I personally believe this would likely go to Aman. Aman can play both centre and wing and coaches likes the versatility in a player like him. Karlsson has better AHL stats than Podkolzin last season. The coach trust PDG enough that he even got some top 6 minutes with the team at the start of the season. The point is, Podkolzin's value is not high and that's likely the best we can get back for him at this time. I personally don't think he moves the needle for this team if he remains here. Gone are the days that he is highly touted top prospect, he is now seen as a replaceable player who can be a contributor at the bottom 6 level. We can find players like him across the league. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 (edited) 1 minute ago, wai_lai416 said: I mean that’s like saying Edmonton drafted so well because they got mcdavid and drai.. and just skipped all the failure they had So you've identified that we are not the only team who doesn't have the greatest draft record in the past 10 years. It feels like you are answering your own question. lol Edited August 19 by The Lock 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogs and Podz Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Just now, Alflives said: Podz isn’t a difference maker. Demko plays and we win that series and the Cup. Keep our star players and support them well. Podz isn’t as good as other players in a supporting role. As @Bob Long pointed out, Podz is pretty much Gaunce. that's such a load of shit Alf. Gaunce was a slow skater, shooter and passer.... sssslllooooowww! Podz has a great shot, good skater, decent passer.... not Gaunce for the love of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmaster Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 21 minutes ago, Hammertime said: Uh pod made a Mill. If you replace him with Karlsson Or whomever the only cap savings is the difference in cap. Pods was a one way contract. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Canuck Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 1 minute ago, wai_lai416 said: I mean that’s like saying Edmonton drafted so well because they got mcdavid and drai.. and just skipped all the failure they had No different situations because McDavid was the clear No. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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