(Trade) Podkolzin to Edmonton

[HKSR]

1 hour ago, RomanPer said:

Finally. Wanted to see this putin lover gone for a while. Really don't care what the return was. And before you ask "why do you assume he's putin lover?" - I don't assume, I know. He openly supports the war in Ukraine (within the team locker room) and calls Ukrainians "khokhols" (which is a derogatory term for Ukrainians in russian language).

Is there a source for that claim?

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

He was 22yo just 2 months ago Alf.  Giving up on players that young, especially powerforward types is not a solid strategy IMO.

IQ isn’t going to improve. Really hoped he’d develop but clearly his slow processing of play is too big an issue. 

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, tas said:

if edmonton was willing to pay a 4th for him, you don't think they'd be willing to put in a waiver claim?

 

sure, maybe he'd slip through (remarkably unlikely), but if you go the gamble route. you're doing so on the assumption you've lost him for nothing on the small hope that you might not. 

End of summer is a different time frame than it is now.  The Oilers are already having to dance around their cap situation.  Doubt they'd be an active player on the waiver wire at the end of summer.

 

Like I said, when the other teams are finalizing their rosters and we see 20 or 30 or more players on the waiver wire, there's a very solid chance Podkolzin would clear.

 

I take the gamble because i feel there's still some runway of development for him.  If he was 25yo, I'd agree with you.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Is there a source for that claim?

I think @RomanPeris quite close with some of the Abby players. 

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

IQ isn’t going to improve. Really hoped he’d develop but clearly his slow processing of play is too big an issue. 

Defence can be taught.  He's not there to provide offence if he's in a bottom 6 role.

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

IQ isn’t going to improve. Really hoped he’d develop but clearly his slow processing of play is too big an issue. 

And then there's this analysis of him as a prospect:

 

"A skilled winger who plays with an edge. Podkolzin combines his fine hockey sense, puck handling and shooting with an aggressive, in-your-face, type of game. He competes hard, is very difficult to play against and has the tools to be a high scoring player"

 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/512832/vasili-podkolzin

[The Lock]

5 minutes ago, HKSR said:

After each of their 3rd seasons in the NHL:

 

Hoglander with 141 games played.

 

Podkolzin with 137 games played.

 

Hoglander had 54pts.

Podkolzin had 35pts.

 

So I give it that Hoglander had better production, but if Hoglander isn't producing he doesn't have the size and strength to play bottom 6 effectively.  Podkolzin can.

 

Again, it's all about the makeup of our team at the time. There's a situational aspect to it.

 

Bottom 6 forwards come in droves. They're not hard to get in comparison to players who can give production. Add that to the fact that our team is fuller compared with last year. I don't really know what you expect him to be able to do in such a situation.

 

And we need to also address the 1st season of Hogs. He was arguably the most noticable player on the ice some nights scoring or not. Podz was decent but Hogs was really good.

[Hogs and Podz]

20 minutes ago, tas said:

screenshotted for the next time the canucks lose someone on waivers. 

tas... this isn't just someone.  It's Podz.  A prospect that at times showed a lot of promise... management thought so too.  I don't make fusses over prospects much.  I've trusted this management group as they have proven, for te most part to be competent.  I question this move though and think it was to hasty. 

Edited August 19 by Hogs and Podz

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Defence can be taught.  He's not there to provide offence if he's in a bottom 6 role.

Podz processes too slow to be effective in a bottom six role. He ends up in no man’s land because of it. Tocchet said Podz was thinking too much. The Coilers will waive Podz. 

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, The Lock said:

 

Again, it's all about the makeup of our team at the time. There's a situational aspect to it.

 

Bottom 6 forwards come in droves. They're not hard to get in comparison to players who can give production. Add that to the fact that our team is fuller compared with last year. I don't really know what you expect him to be able to do in such a situation.

 

And we need to also address the 1st season of Hogs. He was arguably the most noticable player on the ice some nights scoring or not. Podz was decent but Hogs was really good.

Different types of players though.  Podz was never a fancy Michigan goal scoring machine.  He plays a hard nosed in your face type of game.  More grit.  Less finesse.  We absolutely could use both on our team.  

 

Again, if Podz was a couple years older, I'm good with this.  It's just that he only turned 23yo in June that makes this a risky move IMO.  I feel he has more room to grow.

[HKSR]

Just now, Alflives said:

Podz processes too slow to be effective in a bottom six role. He ends up in no man’s land because of it. Tocchet said Podz was thinking too much. The Coilers will waive Podz. 

Disagree

[GrammaInTheTub]

3 minutes ago, HKSR said:

And then there's this analysis of him as a prospect:

 

"A skilled winger who plays with an edge. Podkolzin combines his fine hockey sense, puck handling and shooting with an aggressive, in-your-face, type of game. He competes hard, is very difficult to play against and has the tools to be a high scoring player"

 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/512832/vasili-podkolzin

Vitali Kravtsov was supposed to be a top 6 player as well… 

 

A big, skilled winger that can play up and down the lineup and provide scoring in a number of roles. He brings grit and physical size, but could be more assertive in throwing his weight around more. Displays excellent speed on the rush and in zone entry, but could backcheck quicker. Plays well in his own end and takes away lanes. Very good hands and awareness. Kravtsov has the potential to develop into a staple top six forward that can produce at the next level. [EP]

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, HKSR said:

And then there's this analysis of him as a prospect:

 

"A skilled winger who plays with an edge. Podkolzin combines his fine hockey sense, puck handling and shooting with an aggressive, in-your-face, type of game. He competes hard, is very difficult to play against and has the tools to be a high scoring player"

 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/512832/vasili-podkolzin

And those who wrote this report on a young Podz were wrong in their assessment. Podz plays too slow and he’s a good skater. That’s processing problems. 

[tas]

10 minutes ago, HKSR said:

End of summer is a different time frame than it is now.  The Oilers are already having to dance around their cap situation.  Doubt they'd be an active player on the waiver wire at the end of summer.

 

Like I said, when the other teams are finalizing their rosters and we see 20 or 30 or more players on the waiver wire, there's a very solid chance Podkolzin would clear.

 

I take the gamble because i feel there's still some runway of development for him.  If he was 25yo, I'd agree with you.

sure, I just don't see it. podkolzin is useful in a bottom 6 role, which is exactly the type of reclamation project that a bottom feeding team would be looking for. 

[RJCF96]

50 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Dont put him on waivers, get rid of pdg instead.  Continue his development with the big club.

We are not a rebuliding team where we can afford to put a younger player in the line up and allow them to figure things out at the NHL level anymore.

 

The goal for this team is to compete for a another division title and go for a deep playoff run next season. They have to ice the best possible line-up. Getting rid-off PDG through waivers does not guarantee ice-time for Podkolzin. He might be behind both Karlsson and Aman in the depth chart. And there is an outside chance that Saxson, Bains, Raty making a push for that spot as well. If we keep him up in the NHL and have him sit in the press-box is not good for his development.

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, GrammaInTheTub said:

Vitali Kravtsov was supposed to be a top 6 player as well… 

 

A big, skilled winger that can play up and down the lineup and provide scoring in a number of roles. He brings grit and physical size, but could be more assertive in throwing his weight around more. Displays excellent speed on the rush and in zone entry, but could backcheck quicker. Plays well in his own end and takes away lanes. Very good hands and awareness. Kravtsov has the potential to develop into a staple top six forward that can produce at the next level. [EP]

He only played 48 games in the NHL before the Canucks acquired him for Lockwood and a 7th.  He then had a 16 game stint with the Canucks and put up 1 goal and 1 assist.  At 24yo, Kravtsov was done in the NHL.

 

Podkolzin in the same time frame of 3 seasons played 137 games and 35 points.  He just turned 23yo 2 months ago.  At a minimum, we should have given him 1 more season IMO.

[HKSR]

Just now, tas said:

sure, I just don't see it. podkolzin is useful in a bottom 6 role, which is exactly the type of reclamation project that a bottom feeding team would be looking for. 

And there'd be 20 to 30 other players on the waiver wire as well to pick from.  Guarantee Podkolzin wouldn't be the best player of that bunch.

[The Lock]

Just now, HKSR said:

Different types of players though.  Podz was never a fancy Michigan goal scoring machine.  He plays a hard nosed in your face type of game.  More grit.  Less finesse.  We absolutely could use both on our team.  

 

Again, if Podz was a couple years older, I'm good with this.  It's just that he only turned 23yo in June that makes this a risky move IMO.  I feel he has more room to grow.

 

Every transaction we do, every player we trade away, every player we trade for, every player we sign... they all have risks. Could Debrusk or Heinan flop? Sure. Could keeping Hogs here even flop? Sure. Could not having signed Zadorov for 5mil flop? Sure.

 

So when you say it's a risky move... everything's a risky move. That's what happens when you deal with intangibles.

 

Is it really worth the ulcer in the end if we worried about every "risky move"? Also, is it really the risk you're worried about or is it just an attachment you had to that player? It's not wrong to have an attachment so long as you're true to yourself about it.

[GrammaInTheTub]

I would rather have a team that wins than a roster full of what-ifs simply because they were once highly touted. Let’s all be real - he was never a flashy prospect and all his accolades were in his grit and compete. If that’s not coming through at this level, he’s just another Gaunce. He was going to be lost for free. This lets him settle into his new city and meet his teammates before camp; this rather than allowing him to have a mediocre camp with us and lose further trade value. 
 

It’s not ideal for us - but whether he succeeds elsewhere now is also not a sign that he would have succeeded here. Lots of players need a change of scenery to find their next level. So any future success of his is not directly translatable either.

[HKSR]

Just now, The Lock said:

 

Every transaction we do, every player we trade away, every player we trade for, every player we sign... they all have risks. Could Debrusk or Heinan flop? Sure. Could keeping Hogs here even flop? Sure. Could not having signed Zadorov for 5mil flop? Sure.

 

So when you say it's a risky move... everything's a risky move. That's what happens when you deal with intangibles.

 

Is it really worth the ulcer in the end if we worried about every "risky move"? Also, is it really the risk you're worried about or is it just an attachment you had to that player? It's not wrong to have an attachment so long as you're true to yourself about it.

Not really an attachment.  More of the fact that I feel giving up on basically a 22yo potential powerforward is a bit early and hasty.

[PistolPete13]

25 minutes ago, NoCupSyndrome said:

 

Gives them a Holloway replacement, I suppose. Podz might be better suited for a 3rd/4th line role and comes in at more than $1M less.

As I recall, early on in the playoffs, Tocchett stayed out after practice, giving Podz some extra coaching. Podz never did get any significant ice time in the playoffs. ( one game?). 
 

Holloway did things in the playoffs this year. His line made a difference. Podz would have a hard time filling those shoes if he couldn’t even draw in for a Canucks team that needed a shot of energy.

[Jaimito]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And those who wrote this report on a young Podz were wrong in their assessment. Podz plays too slow and he’s a good skater. That’s processing problems. 

 

Or a gambling problem? 

 

 

[The Lock]

Just now, HKSR said:

Not really an attachment.  More of the fact that I feel giving up on basically a 22yo potential powerforward is a bit early and hasty.

 

An observation here, but I sense an attachment given your stance. You just might not realise it. The very fact that you're calling a 23 year old a 22 year old and skewing other numbers... you're thinking with your heart and I get it.

[tas]

4 minutes ago, HKSR said:

And there'd be 20 to 30 other players on the waiver wire as well to pick from.  Guarantee Podkolzin wouldn't be the best player of that bunch.

maybe we should go after one of them instead then?

[Pure961089]

24 minutes ago, rmok said:

? Is this a serious question. 

 

They just got a 23yr old 10th overall for a 4th round pick. 

 

Do you think the Oilers made the trade to not help themselves? Please do explain that logic. 

Remember when the Canucks signed Filip Johansson? Drafted in the 1st round, 24th overall by the Wild?  The Wild gave up on a young defenceman (22 y/o) and the Canucks gave him a chance.  He didn't pan out.  There will be many give and takes of young players for the Canucks, Johansson and Podkolzin are just 2 of many young kids that were drafted high, given a chance by other teams and failed to deliver.  They're not the first and won't be the last.