[Article] Canucks: Danton Heinen or Dakota Joshua? Who's the right fit for J.T. Miller and Brock Boeser?

[smithers joe]

1 hour ago, -dlc- said:

But what about the chemistry 6 and 9 have?

 

Also...skating styles differ in my view between Heinen and Joshua. Joshua's more of a "lugger" (made that up, but hopefully some of you get what I mean by that).and the heavy play is what I love about him. Miller reacts quickly and fires passes off that you have to be ready for...I think Heinen plays a "quicker" game and would be able to receive those bullets.

 

I just see Joshua fitting better elsewhere. FTR, my guess is JT won't change the heavy lifter part as that's just who he is/how he plays.

i won't break up miller and boeser but i'm saying both heinen and joshua should be tried on that line and whatever happens, happens.

i remember fans saying that kesler and burrows were just good defensive third liners that bring energy.

never say never.

[Craig Coxe]

13 hours ago, Pure961089 said:

I don't know why you'd want to seperate Miller and Boeser. Tocchet likes his pairings and then slots in a complimentary player.  Same as Joshua and Garland, I think you can slot Suter or even Heinen in the middle of those 2.  And I think the reason they brought in DeBrusk was to give Petey some sandpaper, whether it's eventually Lekkerimaki or Sprong Tocchet has a ton of options. Way more than Mikheyev, Beauviller, Lafferty, Tocchet had Petey playing with Linus Karlsson at one point.  We're so much deeper now.  DeBrusk is a better fit with this team than Lindholm was. Petey has a lot to prove this year, I think he get over 100 points again. 

 I agree, Debrusk is a better fit than Lindholm in that complimentary role with Petey.

The only differences we will miss is a multi-purpose RHC for face offs and PK. 

 Lindholm never seemed to fully fit in the top six for offense with Petey and Miller already there as the playmakers.

Pat Quinn's classic line format of a banger with a play maker and a shooter seems like Tocchet's plan as well.

 

 

[smithers joe]

17 minutes ago, Craig Coxe said:

 I agree, Debrusk is a better fit than Lindholm in that complimentary role with Petey.

The only differences we will miss is a multi-purpose RHC for face offs and PK. 

 Lindholm never seemed to fully fit in the top six for offense with Petey and Miller already there as the playmakers.

Pat Quinn's classic line format of a banger with a play maker and a shooter seems like Tocchet's plan as well.

 

 

that's how i see it too. the banger has to be a good board battler and getting in first and getting the puck to the real offensive weapons.

too old fashion, maybe but it worked so often. my favourite canuck's line had both fraser and smyl as players with snarl and talent to help gradin  be a snarly good line. ven gretzky and kurri had semenko handling the rough stuff.

[Provost]

I would initially say Heinen is the best bet, but the other argument is who make the best PK duos and that could decide things.

I would say Heinen/Suter should be tried as PK1 which to me means it makes more sense to have them together on a line for 5v5.  

 

[Crabcakes]

14 hours ago, Pure961089 said:

I had this wild dream where our teamm went into the playoffs looking like this.  We had the fastest Blueline in the NHL, skating wise and in transitioning the puck.  And we had the most dangerous forward group in the NHL as well.  It was like 2011 all over again as the Canucks were first in every team statistic both offensively and defensive. 

 

Hoglander - Miller - Boeser

DeBrusk - Pettersson - Lekkerimaki 

Garland - Heinen - Joshua

Suter - Blueger - Sherwood

 

Hughes - Willander

D-Petey - Hronek

Soucy - Myers

Forbort - Desharnais 

 

Silovs 

Demko

 

We won the Cup

 

You're dreaming in technicolour.  It would be nice but, we don't see Lekkerimaki or Willander for a couple of years

[Crabcakes]

1 hour ago, Phil_314 said:

I think the only certainties at this point are (in no particular order in each row):

Top-6 Cs: Miller/ Petey
Bottom-6 Cs: Blueger/ Suter, Aman

Top-6 W's: DeBrusk, Boeser
Middle-6 W's: Heinen, Hoglander, Sprong, Garland, Joshua, Sherwood, PDG

Top-4 Ds: Hughes, Hronek, Soucy
Top-6 Ds: Myers, Forbort, Desharnais, Juulsen?

Goalies: Demko/ Silovs

With the top of each positional pecking order decided, we can let the rest of the chips fall where they may through internal competition to see who fits best where.  Unless they've proven their worth in each spot, even vaunted duos like Joshua-Garland shouldn't be presumed lest there be a better partner already in our ranks.

 

This is a really useful way to break the team down.  It gives us some clarity as to how things fit together.

 

I don't think that Tocchet is fussy about left/right shot players up front but he seems to be on the back end.  But I would add that to your analysis.  I also think that on a deeper team (like they have this year) PDG is definitely bottom 6.  I can't really rate the new guys because I haven't seen enough of them.  In theory, any one of the middle 6 players could play up the line up.  We're going to see some competition in camp.

 

On D then, if not Hronek with Hughes, then who?  There's been talk of Hronek anchoring his own line which would be great but who else could play top pair right side?  You could call it the biggest weakness on the squad but I think we may be waiting on Willander to fill that hole.  Trading another player to do so would be like robbing Peter to pay Paul (creating a hole somewhere else)

 

Here's a top 6 that I haven't seen suggested yet that might work:

 

Garland Miller Boeser

Joshua Pettersson DeBrusk

[Goose]

dont try to fix what isn’t broken.

 

besides, I dont really see Joshua as a F1 type for Miller/Boeser, but it’s possible I guess

[Pears]

4 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

 

You're dreaming in technicolour.  It would be nice but, we don't see Lekkerimaki or Willander for a couple of years

This. Sprong is a placeholder for Lekkerimaki unless he outperforms the expectations we have for him. 

[Crabcakes]

4 hours ago, Goose said:

dont try to fix what isn’t broken.

 

besides, I dont really see Joshua as a F1 type for Miller/Boeser, but it’s possible I guess

Joshua has good touch in tight and has some grit so may be a fit with Petey

[Pure961089]

9 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

 

You're dreaming in technicolour.  It would be nice but, we don't see Lekkerimaki or Willander for a couple of years

Not unless they win jobs or in the case of Willander his season ends sooner than the Canucks playoffs start.  Even Hughes played 5 game to end the season with the Canucks after his last year in Michigan.  I think everything I dreamt was not impossible.

Edited September 1 by Pure961089

[Coconuts]

Heinen or Suter, leave Joshua on that third line, doesn't make sense to break it up if they can pick up where they left off last season 

 

Play DeBrusk with Pettersson

Edited September 1 by Coconuts

[Pure961089]

On 8/31/2024 at 10:03 AM, Phil_314 said:

I think the only certainties at this point are (in no particular order in each row):

Top-6 Cs: Miller/ Petey
Bottom-6 Cs: Blueger/ Suter, Aman

Top-6 W's: DeBrusk, Boeser
Middle-6 W's: Heinen, Hoglander, Sprong, Garland, Joshua, Sherwood, PDG

Top-4 Ds: Hughes, Hronek, Soucy
Top-6 Ds: Myers, Forbort, Desharnais, Juulsen?

Goalies: Demko/ Silovs

With the top of each positional pecking order decided, we can let the rest of the chips fall where they may through internal competition to see who fits best where.  Unless they've proven their worth in each spot, even vaunted duos like Joshua-Garland shouldn't be presumed lest there be a better partner already in our ranks.

Even Heinen can play centre.  Tocchet likes his winger/centres. I wouldn't be surprised if the line combinations are way different than what we're thinking.  I still think Lekkerimaki is a wild card to make the team because Petey's linemates are up for debate. And it's about who's the right fit for Petey, if Lekkerimaki is ready and shows he's ready in the preseason he's going to get his 9 games for sure.  After that who knows.  

[RWJC]

13 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

Even Heinen can play centre.  Tocchet likes his winger/centres. I wouldn't be surprised if the line combinations are way different than what we're thinking.  I still think Lekkerimaki is a wild card to make the team because Petey's linemates are up for debate. And it's about who's the right fit for Petey, if Lekkerimaki is ready and shows he's ready in the preseason he's going to get his 9 games for sure.  After that who knows.  

I think Lek will play preseason and then be sent down among 3rd set of cuts 

[Pure961089]

1 hour ago, RWJC said:

I think Lek will play preseason and then be sent down among 3rd set of cuts 

We'll see, but Tocchet will give him a chance to proof everyone wrong.  Tocchet is a "puzzle guy" in his own words.  He's looking for pieces that fit he's not just putting 3 talented players together. I feel that previous coaches did that, like forcing a puzzle piece that just doesn't fit. Whether it's Sprong, Hoglander or Lekkerimaki Tocchet will find the right fit. 

Edited September 1 by Pure961089

[The Lock]

I probably have a bit of a different take on it. If Joshua continues with his last season, I would place Joshua wherever a line needs a "pick-me-up" and then have the others fill out the other lines.

 

Whether this would prove to be effective or not, who knows, but it could be interesting in my opinion.

Edited September 1 by The Lock

[Bretzky]

Before you brake up one of the best 3rd lines in the NHL you try the new additions with Miller and Petterson.

I hope Joshua becomes a mammoth power forward and boosts any line! But him and Garland have a Bertuzzi and Ronning thing goin’ on together, haha.

Edited September 1 by Bretzky

[Gawdzukes]

On 8/30/2024 at 8:33 PM, Hammertime said:

I think they'll try that and other things and see what works. PDG and Suter served well in that spot. I don't see why Heinen wouldn't. 

 

My gut is saying. 

5v5

Debrusk Pete Boeser

Dak Miller Garland

Hogz Blueger Sherwood

Heinen Suter Sprong. 

 

 

 

 

On 8/30/2024 at 9:25 PM, EastCoastExpress said:

I dont know why you would mess with chemistry that much. Miller, Boeser and any other one of these forwards are going to be amazing (sprong, Heinen, Sherwood, Debrusk_....)

Its not hard math to see Petey with anyone is going to be better than last year. So give him Debrusk and Heinen.

A guy like Sherwood would be like a double charged PDG for the JT/Brock liine. but you can throw in Sprong to see what he can do with skilled linemates, you will be suprised.

 

 

On 8/30/2024 at 9:51 PM, Pure961089 said:

I don't know why you'd want to seperate Miller and Boeser. Tocchet likes his pairings and then slots in a complimentary player.  Same as Joshua and Garland, I think you can slot Suter or even Heinen in the middle of those 2.  And I think the reason they brought in DeBrusk was to give Petey some sandpaper, whether it's eventually Lekkerimaki or Sprong Tocchet has a ton of options. Way more than Mikheyev, Beauviller, Lafferty, Tocchet had Petey playing with Linus Karlsson at one point.  We're so much deeper now.  DeBrusk is a better fit with this team than Lindholm was. Petey has a lot to prove this year, I think he get over 100 points again. 

 

Yeah I don't see anyway they separate Boeser and Miller. Miller was really a catalyst to getting a more complete Boeser game. Not sure there is any good reason to mess with that. We got what seems like an obvious winger for Petey in Debrusk. Surely it would be risky and irresponsible ... unless of course it works lol. Who knows ... we definitely have a lot of options ... should be a real fun camp. We have too many LW's though ... I kind of see Hammertime's thinking here

 

Debrusk Petey Sprong

Heinen Miller Boeser

Joshua Blueger Garland

Sherwood Suter Hoglander

Aman PDG 

 

Debrusk

Heinen

Joshua

Sherwood

Hoglander

Suter

PDG

 

all play LW and shoot left. I could also see Suter starting with Miller again and Aman drawing in if they say traded Hoglander. One of these guys will have to switch to the RW and/or maybe Garland gets bumped up to the top 6.

[Phil_314]

22 hours ago, Pure961089 said:

Even Heinen can play centre.  Tocchet likes his winger/centres. I wouldn't be surprised if the line combinations are way different than what we're thinking.  I still think Lekkerimaki is a wild card to make the team because Petey's linemates are up for debate. And it's about who's the right fit for Petey, if Lekkerimaki is ready and shows he's ready in the preseason he's going to get his 9 games for sure.  After that who knows.  

I agree, no better time or place to integrate blue-chippers than in situations where their skillsets can thrive.  Contenders need inexpensive talent with term on the fringes to be difference makers and guys like Johnston in DAL or presumably Lekkerimaki can provide that boost.

[Gawdzukes]

On 8/30/2024 at 10:03 PM, Pure961089 said:

Hoglander - Miller - Boeser

DeBrusk - Pettersson - Lekkerimaki 

Garland - Heinen - Joshua

Suter - Blueger - Sherwood

 

 

Whaaaaaaaaat ??? Just when I agreed with your last post ...   and Joshua and Garland also out of position.

 

On 8/30/2024 at 10:09 PM, Hammertime said:

Dreamy.

 

Heinen career in the dot. 

 

lol, what the heck? Going to replace a a natural center with a guy who has never played before, and just blows at face-offs. Why on earth would any hockey person say that? 

 

Petey Myers Bieksa

Miller Forbort Sherwood ... lol

[Hammertime]

23 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

 

 

Yeah I don't see anyway they separate Boeser and Miller. Miller was really a catalyst to getting a more complete Boeser game. Not sure there is any good reason to mess with that. We got what seems like an obvious winger for Petey in Debrusk. Surely it would be risky and irresponsible ... unless of course it works lol. Who knows ... we definitely have a lot of options ... should be a real fun camp. We have too many LW's though ... I kind of see Hammertime's thinking here

 

Debrusk Petey Sprong

Heinen Miller Boeser

Joshua Blueger Garland

Sherwood Suter Hoglander

Aman PDG 

 

Debrusk

Heinen

Joshua

Sherwood

Hoglander

Suter

PDG

 

all play LW and shoot left. I could also see Suter starting with Miller again and Aman drawing in if they say traded Hoglander. One of these guys will have to switch to the RW and/or maybe Garland gets bumped up to the top 6.

I would be shocked if Sprong plays those minutes.

 

He's far more useful feasting on 4th lines. I understand the inclination to keep Brock with Miller. However I think with Pete taking his place centering our top line Miller will play a more agressive checking shut down counter punching role. Where Brock may have a better opportunity to thrive alongside Pete De Brusk. 

 

Time will tell. We saw Garland Joshua play top 6 mins in the playoffs and drive play. They seem like the obvious choice to flank Miller in that crash bang frustrating teams top lines endeavor. Miller and Brock will still play together on the PP. 

 

5v5 if you add up their goals. (individually not as a line) 

Suter Miller Brock scored 49g 

Dak Miller Garland scored 53g

 

I don't think you lose goals by moving Brock up with Pete. But you greatly reduce goals against. 

a mix of 

 

Hog Suter Sherwood

Heinen Bluger Sprong 

look to me like a hell of a bottom 6. I see no reason not to promote Garland Dak. 

 

[Gawdzukes]

22 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

I would be shocked if Sprong plays those minutes.

 

He's far more useful feasting on 4th lines. I understand the inclination to keep Brock with Miller. However I think with Pete taking his place centering our top line Miller will play a more agressive checking shut down counter punching role. Where Brock may have a better opportunity to thrive alongside Pete De Brusk. 

 

Time will tell. We saw Garland Joshua play top 6 mins in the playoffs and drive play. They seem like the obvious choice to flank Miller in that crash bang frustrating teams top lines endeavor. Miller and Brock will still play together on the PP. 

 

5v5 if you add up their goals. (individually not as a line) 

Suter Miller Brock scored 49g 

Dak Miller Garland scored 53g

 

I don't think you lose goals by moving Brock up with Pete. But you greatly reduce goals against. 

a mix of 

 

Hog Suter Sherwood

Heinen Bluger Sprong 

look to me like a hell of a bottom 6. I see no reason not to promote Garland Dak. 

 

 

I can't argue any of that. You make good sense. We'll see as you say. I'm open to just about any configuration. At least that solves the problem of who to play in the top 6 while a major chunk of winger money is tied up in the third line.

 

Edit: I agree on Sprong but I just have a hard time placing players out of position so I find he's either first line or fourth line. Not sure what will happen with him.

Edited September 2 by Gawdzukes

[Provost]

23 hours ago, The Lock said:

I probably have a bit of a different take on it. If Joshua continues with his last season, I would place Joshua wherever a line needs a "pick-me-up" and then have the others fill out the other lines.

 

Whether this would prove to be effective or not, who knows, but it could be interesting in my opinion.

The problem is that if you look at the different line combinations last year.  Joshua only worked with Garland and didn’t produce in any time regardless of whoever else it was.  Garland on the other hand produced wherever he was slotted into the lineup and was very clearly the play driver on that third line.

 

If it is purely on merit, Garland should be in the top six.  The codices just have to decide how much they need to balance the lineup with all the new additions.

 

I could see many different combos and some news ones in camp because the coaches know what they have in the long time linemates and can default to those if things don’t work out.

 

Debrusk-Petterson-Boeser

Heinen-Miller-Garland

Joshua-Suter-Sprong

Sherwood-Blueger-Hoglander

 

 

 

[Gawdzukes]

18 minutes ago, Provost said:

The problem is that if you look at the different line combinations last year.  Joshua only worked with Garland and didn’t produce in any time regardless of whoever else it was.  Garland on the other hand produced wherever he was slotted into the lineup and was very clearly the play driver on that third line.

 

If it is purely on merit, Garland should be in the top six.  The codices just have to decide how much they need to balance the lineup with all the new additions.

 

I could see many different combos and some news ones in camp because the coaches know what they have in the long time linemates and can default to those if things don’t work out.

 

Debrusk-Petterson-Boeser

Heinen-Miller-Garland

Joshua Suter jump

Sherwood-Blueger-Hoglander

 

 

 

 

Who is jump?

 

[Pure961089]

On 9/2/2024 at 10:25 AM, Gawdzukes said:

 

Whaaaaaaaaat ??? Just when I agreed with your last post ...   and Joshua and Garland also out of position.

 

 

lol, what the heck? Going to replace a a natural center with a guy who has never played before, and just blows at face-offs. Why on earth would any hockey person say that? 

 

Petey Myers Bieksa

Miller Forbort Sherwood ... lol

Tocchet likes versatile forwards. Players that can play both centre and wing.  And Heinen could play centre like Suter can, but like Suter can with development, can also play wing like he has been with Boeser and Miller.  Joshua and Garland are the wingers for whoever Tocchet wants to be there at centre. Blueger, Suter and Heinen are options for Tocchet to centre the 3rd line.  Heinen has played centre for Boston when needed that's why there's a C/LW next to his name.  

Edited September 4 by Pure961089

[Pure961089]

1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Whaaaaaaaaat ??? Just when I agreed with your last post ...   and Joshua and Garland also out of position.

 

 

lol, what the heck? Going to replace a a natural center with a guy who has never played before, and just blows at face-offs. Why on earth would any hockey person say that? 

 

Petey Myers Bieksa

Miller Forbort Sherwood ... lol

Wild Dream, remember?  Dreams don't have to make sense that's why they're dreams.