[Article] Canucks: Danton Heinen or Dakota Joshua? Who's the right fit for J.T. Miller and Brock Boeser?

[Hammertime]

2 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

Tocchet likes versatile forwards. Players that can play both centre and wing.  And Heinen can play centre every bit as good as Suter can, but like Suter can also play wing like he has been with Boeser and Miller.  Joshua and Garland are the wingers for whoever Tocchet wants to be there at centre. Blueger, Suter and Heinen are options for Tocchet to centre the 3rd line.  Heinen has played centre for Boston when needed that's why there's a C/LW next to his name.  

This is just false. 

https://moneypuck.com/lines.htm

At no point did he play C for Boston. Do I need to post his FO stats for you again?

[The Lock]

34 minutes ago, Provost said:

The problem is that if you look at the different line combinations last year.  Joshua only worked with Garland and didn’t produce in any time regardless of whoever else it was.  Garland on the other hand produced wherever he was slotted into the lineup and was very clearly the play driver on that third line.

 

If it is purely on merit, Garland should be in the top six.  The codices just have to decide how much they need to balance the lineup with all the new additions.

 

I could see many different combos and some news ones in camp because the coaches know what they have in the long time linemates and can default to those if things don’t work out.

 

Debrusk-Petterson-Boeser

Heinen-Miller-Garland

Joshua-Suter-Sprong

Sherwood-Blueger-Hoglander

 

 

Well based on that logic, while you could argue Garland should be top 6, having him on that 3rd line did provide more scoring options during a game. I tend to think of "top 6" as who would be in the top 6 on a normal team. If you have those kind of players 3rd or even 4th line, that shows you have depth.

 

Overall, I think that's what should be exciting about this season. The fact that we could debate whether Garland should be in the top 6 or not shows, like last year, we have a lot of scoring depth.

[Gawdzukes]

9 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

Tocchet likes versatile forwards. Players that can play both centre and wing.  And Heinen can play centre every bit as good as Suter can, but like Suter can also play wing like he has been with Boeser and Miller.  Joshua and Garland are the wingers for whoever Tocchet wants to be there at centre. Blueger, Suter and Heinen are options for Tocchet to centre the 3rd line.  Heinen has played centre for Boston when needed that's why there's a C/LW next to his name.  

 

Absolutely incorrect. Where on earth do you get that Heinen can play center, and as good as Suter? Clearly you're just making stuff up to sort out your roster confusion.

 

That's like one guy earlier this summer suggesting that Joshua is a center on some far fetched hockey site he googled. Didn't you even look at the reply from @Hammertime where he posted his horrible face-off #'s? He took 31 measly face-offs last year and won a paltry 12. My goodness, that's like 2 or 3 games worth of face-offs. 5 face-offs in 2022, 4 in 2021, and 7 in 2020. He didn't play center for the Bruins, he was a winger. Obviously you don't know this player at all. Like at all.

 

 

Just so you know a lot of sites don't always update their finer points like secondary positions, even height and weight, and they often reflect old data from time spent in junior or USA youth hockey. He may have came is as a prospect center in 2017 but like so many fringe players converts to winger in the NHL to have any hope of sticking in the league.

[Pure961089]

17 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

This is just false. 

https://moneypuck.com/lines.htm

At no point did he play C for Boston. Do I need to post his FO stats for you again?

So why is he taking faceoffs? Hmm.  Maybe is common occurrence in Boston for wingers to be taking faceoffs.  

 

 

 

[The Duke]

Deepest forward group I’ve ever seen for this team, at least on paper in pre-season.

 

I’ll put bet on a “balanced” lineup to start the year:

 

Heinen-Miller-Boeser : Heinen might actually improve the offence of this line that boasted a 100 point player and a 40 goal man while still being good enough defensively that they can match up against anyone. 

 

Joshua-Suter-Garland

 

Suter has scored at as reliably as a Swiss watch (14-15 goals a year) and is an offensive upgrade on Blueger.  If Joshua and Garland carry and dare say build on their chemistry this line will have many nights  where they’re playing “top 6” 5 on 5 ice time, hopefully helping to keep Miller, Brock and Petey fresh. 
 

It’s the other two lines where I don’t know how Tocchet will go.  
 

Debrusk-Petey-Sherwood

 

I think this is a dark-horse option. Tocchet doesn’t mind letting a grinder-type ride shotgun with an offensive pair - and Sherwood would bring all-world forechecking and grit with DeBrusk. He has a pretty good goals-per-60 too so maybe there’s some offensive chops under it all as well.  Really depends on his hockey IQ to cycle the puck in the O Zone but I’m intrigued by it.

 

That would leave..

 

Hoglander-Bluegar-Sprong

 

and holy heck imagine a 4th line with two wingers capable of 20 goals / 40 points apiece. It’s the “project line” with Hoggy and Sprong being babysat by Teddy but damn.

[Hammertime]

3 hours ago, Pure961089 said:

So why is he taking faceoffs? Hmm.  Maybe is common occurrence in Boston for wingers to be taking faceoffs.  

 

 

 

Maybe someone got kicked out? 30fo on a season does not a C make. Thats around one every 2.5 games which he won less than 34% of.  Is Brock Boeser a C?

Brock FO stats. 

 

No Heinen is not a better "C" than Suter. 

 

Edited September 2 by Hammertime

[Gawdzukes]

1 minute ago, Pure961089 said:

So why is he taking faceoffs? Hmm.  Maybe is common occurrence in Boston for wingers to be taking faceoffs.  

 

 

 

 

Bo Horvat - Center

Danton Heinen - Winger

 

Dakota Joshua - Winger

 

You need to brush up on your understanding of hockey. 31 face-offs in a season is a winger covering when the center gets chased out of the circle or some odd collection of players get stuck out there for a face-off after a PK or something. All teams have players that take a couple face-offs here and there. Bo Horvat took 1419 face-offs in 2024, or 1388 more face-offs than Heinen last year. 

[Pure961089]

4 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Bo Horvat - Center

Danton Heinen - Winger

 

Dakota Joshua - Winger

 

You need to brush up on your understanding of hockey. 31 face-offs in a season is a winger covering when the center gets chased out of the circle or some odd collection of players get stuck out there for a face-off after a PK or something. All teams have players that take a couple face-offs here and there. Bo Horvat took 1419 face-offs in 2024, or 1388 more face-offs than Heinen last year. 

What was Petey's FO% just a few years ago.  It's way better now.  Who knows, maybe the Canucks development staff will teach him how to be better at faceoffs.  It's not as black and white as you think, Heinen was brought in for his versatility.  And the Canucks can mold him into whatever they want.  Joshua was a 4th line fringe pro when he came to the Canucks, Myers was a trainwreck.  The Canucks development staff is bar none the best in the NHL.  

 

[Bretzky]

Looking at this lineup possibility it shows to me the depth atm… not a bad thing at all, so preseason we’ll see maybe. 
But lots to look forward to, if and when Demko is 100% healthy anyways.

 

 

Debrusk-Petterson-Boeser

Heinen-Miller-Garland

Joshua-Suter-Sprong

Sherwood-Blueger-Hoglander

Edited September 2 by Bretzky

[Hammertime]

1 hour ago, Pure961089 said:

What was Petey's FO% just a few years ago.  It's way better now.  Who knows, maybe the Canucks development staff will teach him how to be better at faceoffs.  It's not as black and white as you think, Heinen was brought in for his versatility.  And the Canucks can mold him into whatever they want.  Joshua was a 4th line fringe pro when he came to the Canucks, Myers was a trainwreck.  The Canucks development staff is bar none the best in the NHL.  

 

 

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, Pure961089 said:

So why is he taking faceoffs? Hmm.  Maybe is common occurrence in Boston for wingers to be taking faceoffs.  

 

 

 

 

Same reason Boeser has.

 

[Provost]

10 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Who is jump?

 

That is weird, it doesn’t say that I edited out an autocorrect or anything and mine says Sprong.

Edited September 3 by Provost

[EastCoastExpress]

On 8/31/2024 at 1:03 AM, Pure961089 said:

I had this wild dream where our teamm went into the playoffs looking like this.  We had the fastest Blueline in the NHL, skating wise and in transitioning the puck.  And we had the most dangerous forward group in the NHL as well.  It was like 2011 all over again as the Canucks were first in every team statistic both offensively and defensive. 

 

Hoglander - Miller - Boeser

DeBrusk - Pettersson - Lekkerimaki 

Garland - Heinen - Joshua

Suter - Blueger - Sherwood

 

Hughes - Willander

D-Petey - Hronek

Soucy - Myers

Forbort - Desharnais 

 

Silovs 

Demko

 

We won the Cup

you got it right but that's next year's team (with Suter/Heinen reversed) and should end with "We won the Cup Again"

[EastCoastExpress]

3 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Absolutely incorrect. Where on earth do you get that Heinen can play center, and as good as Suter? Clearly you're just making stuff up to sort out your roster confusion.

 

That's like one guy earlier this summer suggesting that Joshua is a center on some far fetched hockey site he googled. Didn't you even look at the reply from @Hammertime where he posted his horrible face-off #'s? He took 31 measly face-offs last year and won a paltry 12. My goodness, that's like 2 or 3 games worth of face-offs. 5 face-offs in 2022, 4 in 2021, and 7 in 2020. He didn't play center for the Bruins, he was a winger. Obviously you don't know this player at all. Like at all.

 

 

the far fetched website is the canucks Roster:

https://www.nhl.com/canucks/roster

 

https://www.nhl.com/canucks/player/dakota-joshua-8478057

Edited September 2 by EastCoastExpress

[Goose]

IF Tocc decides to break up the Joshua/Garland duo, I could see Garland getting a look with Petey/DeBrusk.  He is one of the team’s best puck pursuit players and makes plays, both which Petey needs in line mates.  

 

 

[EastCoastExpress]

13 minutes ago, Goose said:

IF Tocc decides to break up the Joshua/Garland duo, I could see Garland getting a look with Petey/DeBrusk.  He is one of the team’s best puck pursuit players and makes plays, both which Petey needs in line mates.  

 

 

I agree.... Hogz is a LW and was forced to play RW, still did ok with it but imagine if they put him with MIller/Brock.

Debrusk/Petey/Garlund makes sense, but Sprong might be better than anyone thinks with more ice time.

[Goose]

5 hours ago, EastCoastExpress said:

I agree.... Hogz is a LW and was forced to play RW, still did ok with it but imagine if they put him with MIller/Brock.

Debrusk/Petey/Garlund makes sense, but Sprong might be better than anyone thinks with more ice time.

 

yeah.  Heinen and Sprong are both unknowns for me.  looking forward to camp

[Gawdzukes]

5 hours ago, EastCoastExpress said:

the far fetched website is the canucks Roster:

https://www.nhl.com/canucks/roster

 

https://www.nhl.com/canucks/player/dakota-joshua-8478057

 

Yeah that's obviously wrong and anyone who followed the Canucks last year should know that. A lot of places don't update their info and a more astute staff would have never listed him as such in the first place. Lazy really. There was a media thought that he might get tried at center but never did.

[iceman1964]

On 8/31/2024 at 3:33 AM, DexM94 said:

and what about a higher profile if Demko goes to LTIR ? we would have 7.5M to work with when the season starts. 

Not going to happen, Demko needs a bit of extra time but not a lot, he'll be fine. 

I wouldn't go reading to much into the bush league media speculation of him out of action for very long, he's not pushing it and not should he, we need him back, well rested and 100% ready to go. 

 Now that Silovs has proven himself, we can now give Demko rest without worrying about lost points during the season. We'll be fine.

 As far as the rest goes with Miller and Boeser, imo, we need the best speed available to get pucks on the tape of both of them, they can score at will. I think that's Debrusk personally. 

RT will have enough time to figure it out.

Edited September 3 by iceman1964

[Gawdzukes]

21 hours ago, Pure961089 said:

What was Petey's FO% just a few years ago.  It's way better now.  Who knows, maybe the Canucks development staff will teach him how to be better at faceoffs.  It's not as black and white as you think, Heinen was brought in for his versatility.  And the Canucks can mold him into whatever they want.  Joshua was a 4th line fringe pro when he came to the Canucks, Myers was a trainwreck.  The Canucks development staff is bar none the best in the NHL.  

 

 

 

Yeah, it's pretty black and white. It's not just the percentage. While the sheer number of face offs tells you if a player is a center they also have many more responsibilities and requirements. NHL teams usually don't just try random fringe guys at center for no reason when they already have 4.5 experienced centers on the roster.

 

Heinen has little practical experience at 29 years of age. He has 76 career face-offs taken and hasn't played much if any center in 8 years. He is not exactly a moldable piece of clay despite how good our coaches are.

 

Petey is a phenom who they wanted to develop as a center. He took 617 faceoffs in his first season. Last year he took 799 and the year before that was 997. He has over 3200 career face-offs at 25 years of age. He's a center.

 

I don't think you know what you're talking about here. Heinen was brought in to be a versatile winger. He is not going to be playing defence, goalie, or center. 3rd line yet. I don't think so. I am excited to see what he adds to our wings though.

Edited September 3 by Gawdzukes

[IBatch]

On 8/30/2024 at 11:24 PM, Pure961089 said:

Maybe, but Hogs did score 24 goals, I think he can score 30 + if he stays the whole season with him.  I think Tocchet can roll out 4 lines with these new players, I don't know where all the pieces will fit but it's fun to discuss.  

Hogs stopped scoring with EP.   So not sure about that. 

[IBatch]

19 hours ago, The Duke said:

Deepest forward group I’ve ever seen for this team, at least on paper in pre-season.

 

I’ll put bet on a “balanced” lineup to start the year:

 

Heinen-Miller-Boeser : Heinen might actually improve the offence of this line that boasted a 100 point player and a 40 goal man while still being good enough defensively that they can match up against anyone. 

 

Joshua-Suter-Garland

 

Suter has scored at as reliably as a Swiss watch (14-15 goals a year) and is an offensive upgrade on Blueger.  If Joshua and Garland carry and dare say build on their chemistry this line will have many nights  where they’re playing “top 6” 5 on 5 ice time, hopefully helping to keep Miller, Brock and Petey fresh. 
 

It’s the other two lines where I don’t know how Tocchet will go.  
 

Debrusk-Petey-Sherwood

 

I think this is a dark-horse option. Tocchet doesn’t mind letting a grinder-type ride shotgun with an offensive pair - and Sherwood would bring all-world forechecking and grit with DeBrusk. He has a pretty good goals-per-60 too so maybe there’s some offensive chops under it all as well.  Really depends on his hockey IQ to cycle the puck in the O Zone but I’m intrigued by it.

 

That would leave..

 

Hoglander-Bluegar-Sprong

 

and holy heck imagine a 4th line with two wingers capable of 20 goals / 40 points apiece. It’s the “project line” with Hoggy and Sprong being babysat by Teddy but damn.

Deepest since the mid 90's.  Which bodes well for our future.   Forward group that is. 

[Gawdzukes]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Hogs stopped scoring with EP.   So not sure about that. 

 

Yes. I think the best bet would be to put him back on the fourth line where he played the best and helped us win games. Then fill the top 3 lines with new acquisitions and other wingers. He could play on the Miller line but I don't recall him playing much or having any success there either.

 

Maybe if Joshua gets promoted there is a third line spot for him. At this point that's about where he should be playing both to reward his good season and also develop in a spot where he's not asked to do too much. I'm curious to see what RT has in store for Hogs.

[CanuckMan]

Lots of options at wing this year:

 

Boeser, Debrusk, Heinen, Sprong, Garland, Joshua, Hoglander, Sherwood 

Either way there’s enough there to make 4 solid lines. Centers: Miller, Petey, Bluegar, Suter. 
 

We are going to be just fine in the forward department that it’s not even worth talking about.

 

Our worries were at defence and now that worry has seemed to move to goaltending at the moment. Now the defence doesn’t seem so bad.
It is crazy how quickly things can change. 

[SnakeDoctor]

Which ever player works best at training camp should start the season with JT.