Random Violent Attacks in Vancouver/BC

[-Buzzsaw-]

3 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

This is a provincial government issue.  Decision to legalize hard drugs.

Bullsh*t.

 

Federal Government responsibility.

 

Drugs which are the problem are not legal.

 

The drugs which often created the problems are legal ones developed for the health care system and hyper-marketed by the drug companies.

 

As an example...  Oxycodone... marketed by drug companies as non-addictive, low effect, substitute pain killer for old style Codeine, demerol or morphine used by hospitals.  In fact it is even more powerful and addictive... and it leads to addict looking for more powerful drugs.  Drug companies flooded Doctor's offices with promotions urging them to prescribe Oxy... pushed unlimited use by patients, etc. etc.  What do you think all the lawsuits versus Purdue Pharma in the States is about???  That lawsuit was exactly because these drug companies profitted hugely by pushing these drugs and millions of Americans and Canadians became addicted.  Ditto Fentanyl.

[-Buzzsaw-]

Facts about Purdue Pharma, Sackler family and Oxycodone.  (brand name Oxycontin)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purdue_Pharma

 

I used to work in News Media and have many times interviewed and talked to Drug Addicts.

 

Many times the same story came up....  "I was working in Construction/Warehousing/Heavy lifting job and injured my back.

 

Got prescribed Oxycontin.... which ended up as open ended prescription for pain.

 

Got addicted... moved onto to harder drugs like Fentanyl because Oxy no longer did the job.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 6 by -Buzzsaw-

[fanfor42]

People talking nonsense about drugs. Fact is crazy people are on the streets killing innocent citizens. The time for fuzzy headed thinking is over.

 

Action is required to make the streets safe for our families.

 

 

 

 

 

[-Buzzsaw-]

1 minute ago, fanfor42 said:

People talking nonsense about drugs. Fact is crazy people are on the streets killing innocent citizens. The time for fuzzy headed thinking is over.

 

Action is required to make the streets safe for our families.

 

 

 

 

 

What action is that ?  Shoot homeless on sight ?

 

Wake up.... the problem is deepset... it requires a lot of different steps.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, fanfor42 said:

People talking nonsense about drugs. Fact is crazy people are on the streets killing innocent citizens. The time for fuzzy headed thinking is over.

 

Action is required to make the streets safe for our families.

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly! Violent acts need to be dealt strict punishment. Death penalty equals zero repeat offenders. 

[Alflives]

Just now, -Buzzsaw- said:

What action is that ?  Shoot homeless on sight ?

 

Wake up.... the problem is deepset... it requires a lot of different steps.

Nope. We are way too soft on criminals. No excuses for violent crime. End these people so they cannot harm again. 

[fanfor42]

3 minutes ago, -Buzzsaw- said:

What action is that ?  Shoot homeless on sight ?

 

Wake up.... the problem is deepset... it requires a lot of different steps.

 

 I don't think you should be suggesting shooting people on a public forum partner.

 

 

 

 

[The Arrogant Worms]

40 minutes ago, -Buzzsaw- said:

Bullsh*t.

 

Federal Government responsibility.

 

Drugs which are the problem are not legal.

 

The drugs which often created the problems are legal ones developed for the health care system and hyper-marketed by the drug companies.

 

As an example...  Oxycontin... marketed by drug companies as non-addictive, low effect, substitute pain killer for old style Codeine, demerol or morphine used by hospitals.  In fact it is even more powerful and addictive... and it leads to addict looking for more powerful drugs.  Drug companies flooded Doctor's offices with promotions urging them to prescribe Oxy... pushed unlimited use by patients, etc. etc.  What do you think all the lawsuits versus Purdue Pharma in the States is about???  That lawsuit was exactly because these drug companies profitted hugely by pushing these drugs and millions of Americans and Canadians became addicted.  Ditto Fentanyl.

Oxcy has never been pushed as non addictive as far as I know.  If my wife has to fill a prescription she always will check with the doc about it.

[The Arrogant Worms]

24 minutes ago, -Buzzsaw- said:

Facts about Purdue Pharma, Sackler family and Oxycodone.  (brand name Oxycontin)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purdue_Pharma

 

I used to work in News Media and have many times interviewed and talked to Drug Addicts.

 

Many times the same story came up....  "I was working in Construction/Warehousing/Heavy lifting job and injured my back.

 

Got prescribed Oxycontin.... which ended up as open ended prescription for pain.

 

Got addicted... moved onto to harder drugs like Fentanyl because Oxy no longer did the job.

 

 

 

 

 

I just asked my wife. In 35 years of being a Pharmacist she has never seen an oxcy open ended prescription

 

Perhaps in Vancouver with  Doctors and Pharmacies  praying on people and breaking their code of ethics

[-Buzzsaw-]

8 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

Oxcy has never been pushed as non addictive as far as I know.  If my wife has to fill a prescription she always will check with the doc about it.

Did you read the article I linked?.... maybe want to do that... your information is completely wrong.

[-Buzzsaw-]

4 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

I just asked my wife. In 35 years of being a Pharmacist she has never seen an oxcy open ended prescription

 

Perhaps in Vancouver with  Doctors and Pharmacies  praying on people and breaking their code of ethics

Maybe not an open ended... as in one prescription "forever".  But the fact is, the prescriptions get refilled whenever there is an ask.

 

And the user gets addicted.  Again, did you read the link on Purdue Pharma I posted???  Evidence was conclusive the company pushed the product as '...only mildly addictive'.  Purdue has been convicted multiple times in multiple lawsuits for misrepresenting the product and providing false information and guidelines.

[-Buzzsaw-]

In any case, since the thread was originally about the stabbings by a mentally ill person...

 

Yeah, we need to do something about the number of un-medicated homeless Schizophrenics wandering Vancouver's streets and self medicating with illegal drugs.

 

They should be in treatment facilities and under the care of physicians.  Too bad this government and most of the rest of the Provincial governments in Canada are not willing to spend the money to do that.  (even though they would probably save money in the long run... what with the cost of ambulances, Police, emergency departments, etc.)

 

Arbitrarily locking all Schizophrenics up in jail is not a solution or legal... although of course, this particular guy, if he is proven to be criminally insane, should be permanently sentenced to a secure facility.

[-Buzzsaw-]

36 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

 

 I don't think you should be suggesting shooting people on a public forum partner.

 

 

 

 

I didn't suggest that... please don't put words in my mouth. 

 

I have been clear in my suggestions for solutions.

 

After your vague threats of 'Action'...  I asked you sarcastically whether you thought that might be a solution... since you haven't proposed anything.

Edited September 6 by -Buzzsaw-

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

20 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

Health care is primarily a provincial government responsibility.  

 

This is a provincial government issue.  Decision to legalize hard drugs. Decisions to ignore crime caused by marginalized people who are hot being cared for are the fault of the current provincial government.

 

Kick out Eby and install a conservative government to fix these problems.  Gotta get tough now or we are going to lose what we love about living here.

 

You can go back to loving the NDP in a few years after these obvious issues get cleaned up.

 

For god sakes does anyone want to see their kids witnessing the drug use on the streets and buses and out in the public that we have now?  I am 6 feet 200 lbs and I don't feel safe walking around parts of downtown. How do women and children feel?

 

Enough.

By get tough what do you mean? I assume it means throw every drug addict on the street behind bars? Do you know what it costs to incarcerate someone in Canada? Not to mention the cost of putting someone behind bars? Lawyers, judges, baliffs, stenographers, police witnesses, lost man hours on the streets etc. What about recidivism rates, or do we lock them up indefinitely? Honestly I could go on for hours about this incredibly complex issue but I don't really want to get into that aspect right now.

 

What I really want to point out is the poorly thought out stance of, if what we're doing isn't working then doing the opposite must be the answer. I keep seeing the term "common sense" being bandied about and it irks me to no end. It a lazy cop out that excuses people from critcally thinking about issues so they can summarily dismiss the research and science needed to help improve the system. All the while appealing to the "common man" in terms they understand about topics they don't want to think too much about anyway.

 

I also want to point out that I'm not siding with the current system or the politicians that implemented it, more of a devils advocate to get the brain juices flowing. I empathize with many of the posters here and I too want justice. The apparent revolving door of the current system doesn't seem effective or tenable and needs to be revisited. I just want any changes made to be based in sound science and not knee jerk wholesale change for the sake of politics. Maybe that means still trying to emulate successful systems in other countries, hopefully without skipping some very important steps this time? I don't know, but we do know some things that don't work.

 

We already know the war on drugs approach doesn't work. It mainly ends up putting more money and power in the pockets of the organized crime and leaves a mountain of victims in its wake. Not to mention the cost. More mental health facilities and practitioners is a start but does anyone trust a conservative government to do anything on that front? I have many thoughts on how to improve things but I think I'm done with my word salad for now. I will say it is rooted in supports for children and reducing trauma. Whatever the real answer is its going to time and money to implement properly, and time until we start to see results. Both things conservative governments aren't very keen on. 

[Goose]

1 hour ago, -dlc- said:

 

Keen on it or not, want out of jail? Here's how it'll be done.

 

 

 

youre supposing a level of individual accountability / change amongst the violent offenders you target.  i dont think there’s a ton of hope there.  Further, jail time isn’t necessarily a deterrent for some of these individuals either.  

 

even jail time isnt nearly as severe as most people think is warranted, unless the crime is very severe.  in those cases, the harm has already been done.

 

 

[HOCKEYGOD77]

LIKE I SAID..THESE PEOPLE LIKE CAMPING OR STAYING IN PARKS ALLEYS SIDEWALKS ETC..GIVE THEM A SMALL GULF ISLAND NO BOATS NO WEAPONS.YOU GIVE THEM MATERIALS AND SHELTERS LIKE CONTAINERS.GENERATORS OR SOME OTHER FORM OF SAFE POWER...THEN YOU FLY HELICOPTER TO DROP OF FOOD AND SAFE DRUGS OR WHAT HAVE YOU TO THEM...THEY HAVE THEIR OWN COMMUITY TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT..NO POLICE FIREMEN AMBULANCE OR STORES TO BREAK INTO..LET THEM LIVE THEIR DREAM...IS NO DIFFERENT NOW JUST THEY ARE DOING IT ON PUBLIC VIEW AND THEY ARE BOTTLE NECK IN THE SYSTEM...HOLD CAMPS ON WHO GETS TO GO AND STAY...THEY CAN EVEN HAVE THEIR OWN PRIME MINISTER MAYOR ETC..GIVE THEM ESSENTIALS TO KEEP SURVIVING AND GROWING...

Edited September 6 by HOCKEYGOD77

[The Arrogant Worms]

1 hour ago, -Buzzsaw- said:

Maybe not an open ended... as in one prescription "forever".  But the fact is, the prescriptions get refilled whenever there is an ask.

 

And the user gets addicted.  Again, did you read the link on Purdue Pharma I posted???  Evidence was conclusive the company pushed the product as '...only mildly addictive'.  Purdue has been convicted multiple times in multiple lawsuits for misrepresenting the product and providing false information and guidelines.

No ethical Pharmacist would fill whenever it is asked. An ethical Doctor would never write one either.

 

I was not talking about the company.

[VegasCanuck]

1 hour ago, -Buzzsaw- said:

Facts about Purdue Pharma, Sackler family and Oxycodone.  (brand name Oxycontin)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purdue_Pharma

 

I used to work in News Media and have many times interviewed and talked to Drug Addicts.

 

Many times the same story came up....  "I was working in Construction/Warehousing/Heavy lifting job and injured my back.

 

Got prescribed Oxycontin.... which ended up as open ended prescription for pain.

 

Got addicted... moved onto to harder drugs like Fentanyl because Oxy no longer did the job.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not aware of it ever being pushed as non-addictive, but I agree with you that a big part of our issue is the over use and over prescribing of this drug. I'm lucky at 57 that I have no pain whatsoever and it's easy for me to say this but, I think I would probably refuse an Oxy prescription because I've seen what it can do. The Pharma companies producing and supplying it should be held more accountable for the damage that it has done.

 

The overall problem that we're dealing with has so many aspects, it can't be defused by any one single thing. The problem needs to be targeted as a whole. Doctors prescribe a drug like Oxy, but they are so overworked, they don't always have the time to follow up and make sure that it's not being over used. This is an inherent issue in our medical system. Mental Health is a huge hole in this province and in North America as a whole. I'm not an expert on Canadian budgets, but you would think that considering how much tax we pay, they could do a better job allocating funding to specific segments. There is so much fraud going on, even when funds are allocated, it doesn't mean that they won't be diverted to "study companies" which are often owned by Politicians (really big issue in the US), where they do half baked reports and charge astronomical fees to do it. 

 

Our overall systems need a major overhaul, but anyone really qualified to do it isn't going to subject themselves to public office, leaving us with the problem where we often vote for whoever we think will do the least amount of damage in their time in office.

 

Legalizing (or decriminalizing) drugs was a huge mistake but I get the appeal of abandoning a war that we are badly losing. 

 

We get so much overlapping of levels of Government, it drives me nuts. It's a massive misuse of funds. Our current democratic system (not advocating for abandoning democracy, just modernizing it) is based on systems that were needed 150 or more years ago and have led to massively bloated overhead.

 

My personal opinion is, strip Federal Government down to small teams assigned to interface with each Province. A reduction of approximately 80% of Federal overhead. Reduce Provincial governance by at least 50% and increase community level governance by about 20%. The idea that we have a Prime Minister or Premier who is running in a specific riding is ridiculous, they won't have time to spend in that region. Prime Minister is only responsible for the country, no direct association to any specific riding, same for Premiers at Provincial level.

 

Individual communities have a much better understanding of their individual needs and should be given the control to manage bigger overall budgets and allocate appropriately as per a set of flexible guidelines. Simplify our overall tax structure and tie corporate tax breaks to job skill improvement programs so that we are increasing the skill set of our work force and include drug counseling programs as tax benefits for all levels of businesses. Simple filing system that can be vetted by AI systems that scan submitted documents for anomalies that raise flags. You shouldn't need a degree in finance to file your taxes, but that is kind of what's needed if you want to really work the loopholes. Our whole tax systems and structure have so much waste in it,

 

This has been a really long winded reply. I'm not a Trump supporter, I think he's completely full of shit, but the reason he appeals to people is because he has positioned himself as an outsider who will clean up Government waste (kind of funny considering how bad he is at actually managing his own businesses).

 

Summary, we need top down change and restructuring from Federal Government on down and reallocation of spending.

 

[VegasCanuck]

Great thread by the way, @-dlc-, this has been out of control for way too long and no one really addresses it.

[Sharpshooter]

Riverview. 
 

Or lack thereof. 
 

That’s all I can say. 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

38 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Riverview. 
 

Or lack thereof. 
 

That’s all I can say. 

Short term solution for a multifaceted problem but relief nonetheless. 

[Sharpshooter]

7 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

Short term solution for a multifaceted problem but relief nonetheless. 

 

It used to be a long term solution though for those that required it. 
 

 

[D.B Cooper]

Check out safetstreetsvancouver on instagram.  
You will be shocked at how many extremely fucked up things go on there all day everyday.  
It’s just as shitty as every other city, but by the water with more yoga pants.  

 

[DrJockitch]

13 hours ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

Oxcy has never been pushed as non addictive as far as I know.  If my wife has to fill a prescription she always will check with the doc about it.

I was in med school when this came down and they absolutely pushed it as a miracle non-addictive pain killer. 
They where going to emerg docs (who have seen it all) and telling them they are causing chronic pain by undertreating acute pain and oxy would fix that. 
The Sacklers completely changed how medical schools trained doctors for dealing with drug reps and companies. 

As far as open ended prescriptions, the rules don’t allow it. There are very strict rules in the pharmacy and in my experience BC was one of the best about addressing prescribing issues around Narcotics.  Long term Narcotic use still clearly happens a lot though and back pain is one of the primary culprits. People start the pain med and the pain doesn’t go away so often people end up on it forever. I always coach someone when starting pain meds for acute pain that sometimes the pain doesn’t go away but the meds will need to. 
‘IMHO they need to take narcotic prescribing away from the regular family docs. 
‘Chronic pain and mental health are the hardest things doctors deal with day on day out and this is a discussion for another forum but I think the way we train mental health professionals, especially psychiatrists wrong. 

Edited September 6 by DrJockitch

[bishopshodan]

At work I deal with a lot of addicts but I am no expert. 

The common type statements about drug use are " the drugs these days blow holes in the brain", stuff like that.

Extended Opiod use changes people, permanently. 

 

If we dont focus more on getting help to these people, the problems will continue.