[Rumour] Garland to Pittsburgh

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, LillStrimma said:

Remember that Garland has it much easier since the other teams has to guard both Petey and Millers lines. 

How many teams has quality through three lines?
 

Garland is a luxuary going forward with all the dead cap. 

par example if Demko and Boeser had to get their raise now we might trade both of them just because it's too much cap now.

And let Silovs and Lekkerimäki go in early.

The only dead cap is OEL's.   And to whatever degree players earn their deals on a consistent basis.   Already demonstrated Garland produces like a great top six or decent first liner EV, and some that was top six but mostly 3rd liner since he's arrived.    With 3 different coaches included one who dog housed him a bit.    Stamkos.   Seguin.  Hertl. Rhino.  Zinanejad ... not little names..Eichel. Larkin.  Hintz, Kopitar, etc etc.   He's producing the same as these guys and sure maybe lesser competition works.   Usually guys like that get a promotion.     Dead cap ...are you hinting EP who now gets paid like a top five center need to produce like one?   If so i'd agree to that.    There are quite a few teams with quality third lines, they are the ones who contend for cups.   As for Hogs and Sprong, sure they could manage to make things work with Suter.    And promote Joshua and Garland.   Or, if they want, just keep things how they were and expect them to continue.     Heinen, Bleugar Sherwood works too.   You know his not regularly in the top 50-90?  Brock.   Made it once in his career...bear Garland by six points, usually it's the other way around.   Plus he agitates and plus they are relied on to get the puck in the d-zone and bring it up ice ... and often keep in there for extended periods of time. 

 

FYI Garlands stats were better than JT Millers 3rd line first unit power play specialist year on a loaded TB team.  52 takeaways, 9 giveaways last season.   Garland is a pick pocket too.   And an agitator.   And never takes a shift off.    He's a glue guy too.     Won't be fun if EPs not scoring 110 or so points on a regular basis.    Garlands par line is 40-45 given his assignments.   Never has a problem with that, regardless of whom they give him to play with ... so far anyways.   Lead the team in plus minus upfront one year too.    Green and Bruce year of the blenders.    Tochett double shifted EP late in the playoffs, trying to get him going, too little, too late (gave him some shifts with Garland and Joshua).

Edited 19 hours ago by IBatch

[IBatch]

On 9/17/2024 at 10:38 AM, smithers joe said:

our 3rd line could end up being henein, suter and sprong. there is nothing in tocchet's thinking that says, our 3rd line has to be garland, joshua and blueger.

tocchet will play his players where they can best serve the teams success.

This.  It makes a lot of sense to play Hogs on the third line with Suter and Sprong too. 

[King Heffy]

19 minutes ago, IBatch said:

The only dead cap is OEL's.   

Mikhayev retention 

[IBatch]

22 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

Contender isn’t a stretch by any means. Number 1 contender, yes maybe we aren’t there yet, but we are damn close. 
Personally I am not trying to come across bias in any way, but with a healthy Demko, this team when fully healthy is a top contender. We have how many 20 goal scorers?????? We have Hughes and Hronek who are a top tier pairing, our back end is massive and comes with a lot of shot suppression and physical as hell.

 

 

OEL is misconstrued it’s not even funny. 
2021-22 look at the first 41GP how the team played and look at Petterssons production then look at the 2nd half. 
Vancouver was 7th in the league the last 41GP. That’s when Pettersson finally started to produce. 
The defensive metrics of Myers and OEL were top 5 shutdown pair league wide. I could revisit that and show you how bad goaltending in 2022-23 changed everyone’s view, that and OEL was playing through a high ankle sprain. You look at his 2023-24 season right back to his career average and playing all important minutes in the SCF.

The buyout was trigger happy imho. 
 

edit: Can’t blame a guy’s production for not being given opportunity or being utilized defensively. (63% defensive zone starts 184 total 3rd highest league wide as a pair) individually 8th highest dzone starts league wide Myers 4th most.

 

.940oiSV% for OEL in 2021-22….. that’s insane which was 3rd best league wide. Myles wasn’t far behind either at .932

Won't talk about OEL, just came up because of dead cap.    We wouldn't have iced the team we had without the buyout last year.   It is debatable if it was one year pre-mature, the paycheque he got last year and the ones he's getting going on is fair market value for what he provides.   Much preferred Zadarov.   Top four beast for us in the post season.   Not playing sheltered limited minutes on a true contender.    OEL Myers was a super expensive second pairing, they were suitable nothing more nothing less one year, and total trash the following year and it wasn't just goaltending.   That cap is much better allocated towards Hronek.   We couldn't draft a RHD, and never used more than one second (Woo) even trying to do that.   Filled a need, the same way Miller filled a need. 

 

A contender needs a series of post seasons ontop of strong regular season play to get that legit moniker.   We can say we are going to "contend" that's totally fair given the core's age.  Teams like PIT, St. Louis and Vegas found a way without their starters (won their cups, Vegas with their third string goalie in Hill, who outplayed Ottinger who was also very good for Dallas that playoff's).

 

Usually a team goes through a series of postseasons, before the "contender" comes out.    On paper we are better positioned for a post season along the edges than last year.   All the guys we brought in have the playoff experience and intangibles you want to see.  That part is improved.    Where we haven't improved is we lost Ian Cole, who was partnered with spare parts most of the season unless the whole team was healthy.   Soucy Myers doesn't screen yippee! for a second pairing.   It sure would if that was our third though, or if Myers was on the third pairing. 

 

 

Yes believe we can contend with a healthy Demko AND with similar adds Allvin made for the team last season.  As in a 3C upgrade to a middle six at least guy who can move up and won't hurt you, and a top four D.   Doesn't have to be L or R, but does need to give the team the chance to split up QHs and Hronek.    QHs was getting overly abused, and Hronek was neutered as a result.    Better off putting Hronek on his own pairing half way through or so.   Soucy Myers doesn't scream yippee! as far as a second pairing goes.   But it will have to do.   Soucy Hronek for sure does though.    QHs?   Forbet Myers.   QHs might have to be with either Juulsen or Desharnais.  

 

From what I saw last post season, that team could play with the best of them.   And we didn't need stellar goaltending, just solid to win.    And timely goals.   Tochett's defensive non-negotiable's made it a whole lot easier on the goalies as a group last season.    And the team just became more of a meat grinder - that's on purpose, all post season signings in the summer.    So reasons for optimism for sure.    This was without EP going.    We surely will need everyone healthy and pulling their weight to win a cup ... And also a trade or two on there to help make it work.    Like that Allvin doesn't wait to react, he acts.    His deals come before the TDL.   Sure hope he acts as soon as he can, and brings in at least another top four D.  

 

Our window is about as wide as EPs current deal if everything goes right (Lekkermaki and Willander are studs).   The peak contending years started last year, and run out when QHs and Demko are up.   That coincide's with Jt Miller...We are blessed he's peaking at the same time as others.    Once all these guys get paid their legacy deals, we won't be able to afford the rest of the meal we currently are enjoying.   So agree with that - these are the years this core will contend for a cup.    Wouldn't be so bold to call us contenders.   Then again, after winning the division and being a top team in 92-93... we had our best shot at winning a cup to date.   Something to consider if the wheels fall off a little, and we just squeeze in.   Also expect like Quin, Allvin will pull the pin and make a trade and it might not be popular at the time.   Sure hope it's not this Garland stuff ... we could trade a second to acquire a goalie who has a career save percentage around .903 and has proven he can handle the pressure starting games when a starter is  injured.   And don't need to do that unless Demko is put on the LTIR.    Team needs to accrue cap space to leave room open for adjustments in season. 

 

Do like the guys Allvin brought in, they are all here for the post season.   That's when they are at their best, and the style of game matters more.    Some players get you to the post season.   Others are just no fun to play against once in.   The Canuck's are finally no longer a fun team to play against.    Was unhappy we didn't sign Zadarov.   Sure hope that doesn't come back to bite us in the ass. 

 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by IBatch

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Won't talk about OEL, just came up because of dead cap.    We wouldn't have iced the team we had without the buyout last year.   It is debatable if it was one year pre-mature, the paycheque he got last year and the ones he's getting going on is fair market value for what he provides.   Much preferred Zadarov.   Top four beast for us in the post season.   Not playing sheltered limited minutes on a true contender.    OEL Myers was a super expensive second pairing, they were suitable nothing more nothing less one year, and total trash the following year and it wasn't just goaltending.   That cap is much better allocated towards Hronek.   We couldn't draft a RHD, and never used more than one second (Woo) even trying to do that.   Filled a need, the same way Miller filled a need. 

 

A contender needs a series of post seasons ontop of strong regular season play to get that legit moniker.   We can say we are going to "contend" that's totally fair given the core's age.  Teams like PIT, St. Louis and Vegas found a way without their starters (won their cups, Vegas with their third string goalie in Hill, who outplayed Ottinger who was also very good for Dallas that playoff's).

 

Usually a team goes through a series of postseasons, before the "contender" comes out.    On paper we are better positioned for a post season along the edges than last year.   All the guys we brought in have the playoff experience and intangibles you want to see.  That part is improved.    Where we haven't improved is we lost Ian Cole, who was partnered with spare parts most of the season unless the whole team was healthy.   Soucy Myers doesn't screen yippee! for a second pairing.   It sure would if that was our third though, or if Myers was on the third pairing. 

 

 

Yes believe we can contend with a healthy Demko AND with similar adds Allvin made for the team last season.  As in a 3C upgrade to a middle six at least guy who can move up and won't hurt you, and a top four D.   Doesn't have to be L or R, but does need to give the team the chance to split up QHs and Hronek.    QHs was getting overly abused, and Hronek was neutered as a result.    Better off putting Hronek on his own pairing half way through or so.   Soucy Myers doesn't scream yippee! as far as a second pairing goes.   But it will have to do.   Soucy Hronek for sure does though.    QHs?   Forbet Myers.   QHs might have to be with either Juulsen or Desharnais.  

 

From what I saw last post season, that team could play with the best of them.   And we didn't need stellar goaltending, just solid to win.    And timely goals.   Tochett's defensive non-negotiable's made it a whole lot easier on the goalies as a group last season.    And the team just became more of a meat grinder - that's on purpose, all post season signings in the summer.    So reasons for optimism for sure.    This was without EP going.    We surely will need everyone healthy and pulling their weight to win a cup ... And also a trade or two on there to help make it work.    Like that Allvin doesn't wait to react, he acts.    His deals come before the TDL.   Sure hope he acts as soon as he can, and brings in at least another top four D.  

 

Our window is about as wide as EPs current deal if everything goes right (Lekkermaki and Willander are studs).   The peak contending years started last year, and run out when QHs and Demko are up.   That coincide's with Jt Miller...We are blessed he's peaking at the same time as others.    Once all these guys get paid their legacy deals, we won't be able to afford the rest of the meal we currently are enjoying.   So agree with that - these are the years this core will contend for a cup.    Wouldn't be so bold to call us contenders.   Then again, after winning the division and being a top team in 92-93... we had our best shot at winning a cup to date.   Something to consider if the wheels fall off a little, and we just squeeze in.   

 

Do like the guys Allvin brought in, they are all here for the post season.   That's when they are at their best, and the style of game matters more.    Some players get you to the post season.   Others are just no fun to play against once in.   The Canuck's are finally no longer a fun team to play against.    Was unhappy we didn't sign Zadarov.   Sure hope that doesn't come back to bite us in the ass. 

 

 

Every team has holes and question marks. It’s the top guys who make the difference. Our top guys, as a group, are better than everyone else’s. Trade Garland to get a right shot 3C and we are celebrating a Cup parade down Georgia June 2025. 

[canucks curse]

They aren’t trading garland 

[smithers joe]

11 hours ago, IBatch said:

This.  It makes a lot of sense to play Hogs on the third line with Suter and Sprong too. 

neither hogs or sprong are good defensively. too much pressure on  suter to produce and take care of all the defensive play. hogs and sprong need to play with 2 defensively strong linemates. miller and boeser need another defensively player on their line.

i don't know if debrusk is strong defensively. if not, that leave petey needing another defensively strong linemate.

i'm sure tocchet will want that.

[canucks curse]

This is go time for hogz 

he will be direct king battling sprong and letteremski for the “I can’t play two way hockey or be relied on but I can score sometimes” spot in the line up 

if he doesn’t show well he shoots to the top of the trade chip list even it’s for a spare part when injuries hit or package later in season for a guy like Rasmus Andersson 

[LillStrimma]

12 hours ago, IBatch said:

The only dead cap is OEL's.   And to whatever degree players earn their deals on a consistent basis.   Already demonstrated Garland produces like a great top six or decent first liner EV, and some that was top six but mostly 3rd liner since he's arrived.    With 3 different coaches included one who dog housed him a bit.    Stamkos.   Seguin.  Hertl. Rhino.  Zinanejad ... not little names..Eichel. Larkin.  Hintz, Kopitar, etc etc.   He's producing the same as these guys and sure maybe lesser competition works.   Usually guys like that get a promotion.     Dead cap ...are you hinting EP who now gets paid like a top five center need to produce like one?   If so i'd agree to that.    There are quite a few teams with quality third lines, they are the ones who contend for cups.   As for Hogs and Sprong, sure they could manage to make things work with Suter.    And promote Joshua and Garland.   Or, if they want, just keep things how they were and expect them to continue.     Heinen, Bleugar Sherwood works too.   You know his not regularly in the top 50-90?  Brock.   Made it once in his career...bear Garland by six points, usually it's the other way around.   Plus he agitates and plus they are relied on to get the puck in the d-zone and bring it up ice ... and often keep in there for extended periods of time. 

 

FYI Garlands stats were better than JT Millers 3rd line first unit power play specialist year on a loaded TB team.  52 takeaways, 9 giveaways last season.   Garland is a pick pocket too.   And an agitator.   And never takes a shift off.    He's a glue guy too.     Won't be fun if EPs not scoring 110 or so points on a regular basis.    Garlands par line is 40-45 given his assignments.   Never has a problem with that, regardless of whom they give him to play with ... so far anyways.   Lead the team in plus minus upfront one year too.    Green and Bruce year of the blenders.    Tochett double shifted EP late in the playoffs, trying to get him going, too little, too late (gave him some shifts with Garland and Joshua).

Petey has been used as a red flag for the other teams meaning the other lines get it easier. That also has value. 
I can’t find a single player that can do things by themselves.

If McDavid plays without a Draisatl par example he’s quite easy to contain. The same with Petey and others. 
They also have to have quality around them to succeed. 

 

Garland is insanely quick. But he can’t use his weight to intimidate. So it depends if Tocchet want it to hurt playing against his 3 or 4th liners.

The aspect of the game that get more important in playoff.

[Jayinblack]

12 hours ago, IBatch said:

This.  It makes a lot of sense to play Hogs on the third line with Suter and Sprong too. 

Isn't the knock on both Hogs and Sprong their defensive game ?   Not sure having them on the same line (or what's traditionally a checking/shutdown line) would work for Tocchet.

[Jayinblack]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Soucy Hronek for sure does though.    QHs?   Forbet Myers.   QHs might have to be with either Juulsen or Desharnais.  

 

This exactly what i keep wondering about happening.  QH with with one of them but he stays out later for  bit when Hronek comes in.

A staggered deployment approach like that would give QH / Hronek some time together, but more important let Hronek carry a line with Soucy and push Myers to the 3rd pairing where he's not overworked.

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, smithers joe said:

neither hogs or sprong are good defensively. too much pressure on  suter to produce and take care of all the defensive play. hogs and sprong need to play with 2 defensively strong linemates. miller and boeser need another defensively player on their line.

i don't know if debrusk is strong defensively. if not, that leave petey needing another defensively strong linemate.

i'm sure tocchet will want that.

Yeah probably should have said fourth line.   Hogs Blueger Sprong as a line that could feast on another teams fourth line.  

 

Not sure what Tochett will go with exactly.   Maybe something we don't expect.    Sprong is probably going to be utilitized sparingly.   Second PP unit and fourth line.   Maybe Tochett gives Hogs another go with EP, because it's either him or Pizza or Sprong if we keep the third line together.    Do think our new players are decent and then amp up come the post season.  

Edited 4 hours ago by IBatch

[smithers joe]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Yeah probably should have said fourth line.   Hogs Blueger Sprong as a line that could feast on another teams fourth line.  

 

Not sure what Tochett will go with exactly.   Maybe something we don't expect.    Sprong is probably going to be utilitized sparingly.   Second PP unit and fourth line.   Maybe Tochett gives Hogs another go with EP, because it's either him or Pizza or Sprong if we keep the third line together.    Do think our new players are decent and then amp up come the post season.  

i don't think tocc will play hogs and sprong on the same line. i could be wrong but i wouldn't. hogs blueger and sherwood might be an effective line #4

[Gawdzukes]

On 9/17/2024 at 7:57 AM, IBatch said:

Base it on cap percentage, and then compare that allocation to some of the guys we've signed in the past who did a lot less. 

 

Yeah, he's actually not overly bad value now that the cap is rising. He's definitely a positive player but it doesn't stop that he's an expensive third liner who doesn't play meaningful special teams. We really shouldn't justify his salary simply because he's better than other poor value performers though.

 

It'll be interesting to see PA's long-term plan for Garland. I don't foresee a re-sign but I wonder if he could play with Petey and Debrusk?

 

On 9/17/2024 at 7:57 AM, Alflives said:

Burr was great in a checking role and on the pk. Two things Garland isn’t good at. Plus Burr proved successful against better players (top six) and Garland struggled there. Lekkerimaki is a much better fit with Petey and Debrusk. 

 

I get what you're saying with roster construction. It's always going to be a challenge (can be overcome though) when your third liners are taking up valuable cap space from the top lines and/or defence. It's just simple math.

 

I'm old school but when I'm building a team up front I start with figuring out how you're going to score goals (top 6) and start there. If you have extra then you can throw some more bucks at your lower lines to become stronger. Unfortunately we all know we've struggled to find players to compliment our top 6 ... mainly because we don't have the cap space/upcoming prospects to do so.

[chris12345]

15 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Mikhayev retention 

First time in a decade a tendy isn't hanging around like a greasy fart?

[Dr. Crossbar]

5 hours ago, canucks curse said:

They aren’t trading garland 

 

This. His contract is up next year. He'll likely be moved then when the OEL cap hit goes from $2.3 mill to $4.7 in 2025/26