Canucks Preseason Camp: 15F 8D 3G remain in camp

[BigTramFan]

2 hours ago, J-23 said:

 

My only concern is if someone on the left side defence gets injured who is stepping in?

 

Friedman and Juulsen both play on the right side.

 

Akito Hirose? Is Kirill Kudryavtsev the answer? I thought he was very good during the preseason and training camp. Rick also had nothing but good things to say. 

Friedman is comfortable playing both sides, so he would be first choice. Wolanin probably next up after that.

[BigTramFan]

19 minutes ago, Honkin Hronek said:

It doesn’t sound like much, but that $362k last year probably would’ve been the difference in us getting Mantha, Toffoli or Tanev on deadline day. What does that extra defence or depth scoring do for us in the Edmonton series? We lost by one goal. 
 

Plus, once Joshua’s back then one of Bains/Raty is going down. That’s another ~$900k which turns into ~3.5 million on deadline day if it’s in the first couple weeks. Once Demko’s back, Silovs is probably going down or Lankinen’s being dealt. Suddenly that $362k could as high as $5-6 million total. Now of course, guys get called up after injuries so we’re probably looking at, at most, $2-3 pragmatically speaking. But, it jumps up fast and even that “small” amount makes getting guys like Vatrano, Ferraro, or even Rasmus Andersson possible. Give yourself the chance for flexibility now, even if it looks like pennies. It will pay off in the long run 

 

To have the $90k of cap space, we cannot have Raty or Bains, nor one of Friedman or Juulsen on the roster. We would need to cut it back to 12F, 7D and 2G (assuming Demko, Joshua, Poolman all on IR). Extremely likely that whichever of Friedman or Juulsen we waive will be picked up by another team. There goes our D depth. With only 21 players if there is more than one injury then we will have to bring another player onto the roster, and there goes the cap space.

 

And once Joshua is back we aren't sending Raty or Bains down, they are already not on the roster so that we could have the $90k of cap space. So it stays at $362k.

 

Demko comes back and we might send Silovs down, or perhaps keep 3 goalies to manage Demko's workload. Pretty sure we will have an injury by then that will require us to utilise most of the $850k of space that Silovs creates if we sent him down.

 

 

Regarding last TDL...I seem to remember Alvin saying that not trading for additional pieces at last TDL was due to the cost of acquiring, not due to us being unable to clear $362k.

 

Mantha was on $5.7m. WSH retained 50%, so he'd still cost $2.85m. The main reason for not acquiring him was the asking price of 2nd + 4th round picks.

 

Similarly for Toffoli who cost a 2nd + 3rd round pick. And Tanev who cost a 2nd + 3rd +4th + a prospect selected in the second round in 2021. 

[CanucksJay]

4 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

 

To have the $90k of cap space, we cannot have Raty or Bains, nor one of Friedman or Juulsen on the roster. We would need to cut it back to 12F, 7D and 2G (assuming Demko, Joshua, Poolman all on IR). Extremely likely that whichever of Friedman or Juulsen we waive will be picked up by another team. There goes our D depth. With only 21 players if there is more than one injury then we will have to bring another player onto the roster, and there goes the cap space.

 

And once Joshua is back we aren't sending Raty or Bains down, they are already not on the roster so that we could have the $90k of cap space. So it stays at $362k.

 

Demko comes back and we might send Silovs down, or perhaps keep 3 goalies to manage Demko's workload. Pretty sure we will have an injury by then that will require us to utilise most of the $850k of space that Silovs creates if we sent him down.

 

 

Regarding last TDL...I seem to remember Alvin saying that not trading for additional pieces at last TDL was due to the cost of acquiring, not due to us being unable to clear $362k.

 

Mantha was on $5.7m. WSH retained 50%, so he'd still cost $2.85m. The main reason for not acquiring him was the asking price of 2nd + 4th round picks.

 

Similarly for Toffoli who cost a 2nd + 3rd round pick. And Tanev who cost a 2nd + 3rd +4th + a prospect selected in the second round in 2021. 

 

I am not too broken up about losing Friedman as the 8D. 

My thoughts are that to be a contender, canucks need the capspace to grab a legit top 4 D by tdl. 

Forbort, Desharnais or Myers in the top 4 will not cut it. 

This means that the depth will be pushed down 1 spot and Juulsen will be 8D heading into playoffs. 

[stawns]

22 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

 

I am not too broken up about losing Friedman as the 8D. 

My thoughts are that to be a contender, canucks need the capspace to grab a legit top 4 D by tdl. 

Forbort, Desharnais or Myers in the top 4 will not cut it. 

This means that the depth will be pushed down 1 spot and Juulsen will be 8D heading into playoffs. 

 

Myers had 29 points and a +16 last year, how is he not a top 4 d?

[kettlevalley]

Seems our goalie depth took another hit too. Patera claimed by Boston so with Demko on the shelf(if that is what happens) we have Laukinen and Silovs then Tolopilo as call up.  Any other goalie injuries and we are in trouble.  

Edited Thursday at 02:54 PM by kettlevalley
Coeecting auto correct

[-dlc-]

18 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Myers had 29 points and a +16 last year, how is he not a top 4 d?

I honestly believe that it's the glaring gaffes that stick with people. Especially in critical moments when we're left wondering "wwyt"? Taking out Petey and sliding along on his belly rather than angling someone to the corner using his big body.

 

But I don't believe he isn't top 4 and I think he's shown more consistency lately in making better decisions. I like him best when he's physical and not so passive...seems more focused when he's engaged.

[DrJockitch]

23 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

I honestly believe that it's the glaring gaffes that stick with people. Especially in critical moments when we're left wondering "wwyt"? Taking out Petey and sliding along on his belly rather than angling someone to the corner using his big body.

 

But I don't believe he isn't top 4 and I think he's shown more consistency lately in making better decisions. I like him best when he's physical and not so passive...seems more focused when he's engaged.

He was also underwater for most advanced stats up until last season so it wasn’t just the eye test.
The chaos he got his name for though was not all bad, he had some wild and crazy fun offensive safaris as well. 

The team was also horrible through most of those years which colours his stats significantly , but he shares in responsibility for that awfulness. 

[nzan]

49 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

He was also underwater for most advanced stats up until last season so it wasn’t just the eye test.
The chaos he got his name for though was not all bad, he had some wild and crazy fun offensive safaris as well. 

The team was also horrible through most of those years which colours his stats significantly , but he shares in responsibility for that awfulness. 

 

I think that is the sum total of his story with the Canucks - and last year things changed considerably, if he can reproduce/maintain what he did last year I think there's no question he's a legitimate top 4 D

[higgyfan]

49 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

He was also underwater for most advanced stats up until last season so it wasn’t just the eye test.
The chaos he got his name for though was not all bad, he had some wild and crazy fun offensive safaris as well. 

The team was also horrible through most of those years which colours his stats significantly , but he shares in responsibility for that awfulness. 

 

The change in coaching staff has had a very positive influence on Myers' game (just like most of the

other players).  Adam Foote and Sergei Gonchar have helped Myers' game immensely.  Imo, he

easily slots onto the 2nd pairing, alongside Soucey.  Sure, he'll make some gaffs now and then, but

he has become a more responsible dman than what he was before last season.  I vote for getting rid of

the chaos giraffe emoji; it's disrespectful and ignores the steps he's taken to improve his game.

[CanuckMan]

1 hour ago, kettlevalley said:

Seems our goalie depth took another hit too. Patera claimed by Boston so with Demko on the shelf(if that is what happens) we have Laukinen and Silovs then Tolopilo as call up.  Any other goalie injuries and we are in trouble.  

Honestly this should be a judgement year for Demko. Yes he’s on a great contract but it doesn’t help when he is injured on the sidelines half the time. Let him play out this season whenever he does and next year management better be smart about asset management. I’m hoping we don’t sign him long term after this contract is up and I love the guy and his play. Gives us a chance to win every time he’s in net but lately he’s on the sidelines more when we need him.

[spook007]

1 hour ago, -dlc- said:

I honestly believe that it's the glaring gaffes that stick with people. Especially in critical moments when we're left wondering "wwyt"? Taking out Petey and sliding along on his belly rather than angling someone to the corner using his big body.

 

But I don't believe he isn't top 4 and I think he's shown more consistency lately in making better decisions. I like him best when he's physical and not so passive...seems more focused when he's engaged.

Think playing under Gonchar and Foote has helped Myers immensely... Don't see him do the bone headed plays as often as he used to... He does still go forward but more calculated... I am happy with Myers in the line up, and especially at $3M it represents value for money... 

[spook007]

21 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

 

The change in coaching staff has had a very positive influence on Myers' game (just like most of the

other players).  Adam Foote and Sergei Gonchar have helped Myers' game immensely.  Imo, he

easily slots onto the 2nd pairing, alongside Soucey.  Sure, he'll make some gaffs now and then, but

he has become a more responsible dman than what he was before last season.  I vote for getting rid of

the chaos giraffe emoji; it's disrespectful and ignores the steps he's taken to improve his game.

This ^^^^^

[DrJockitch]

46 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

 

The change in coaching staff has had a very positive influence on Myers' game (just like most of the

other players).  Adam Foote and Sergei Gonchar have helped Myers' game immensely.  Imo, he

easily slots onto the 2nd pairing, alongside Soucey.  Sure, he'll make some gaffs now and then, but

he has become a more responsible dman than what he was before last season.  I vote for getting rid of

the chaos giraffe emoji; it's disrespectful and ignores the steps he's taken to improve his game.

Now you’ve done it. Chaos giraffes for everyone!

Edited Thursday at 05:24 PM by DrJockitch

[nzan]

1 hour ago, higgyfan said:

 

The change in coaching staff has had a very positive influence on Myers' game (just like most of the

other players).  Adam Foote and Sergei Gonchar have helped Myers' game immensely.  Imo, he

easily slots onto the 2nd pairing, alongside Soucey.  Sure, he'll make some gaffs now and then, but

he has become a more responsible dman than what he was before last season.  I vote for getting rid of

the chaos giraffe emoji; it's disrespectful and ignores the steps he's taken to improve his game.

so much so that it might be time to try him with Hughes again - obviously that was a horrible experiment in years past, but I wonder if it could work now 

[The Duke]

Re: Myers

 

the coaching change helped - but it’s also the team commitment to getting the puck out of the zone. He also has a quality partner in Soucy which is always been a key to Myers having success.  Bottom line, we’re fortunate to have him at a fairly reasonable rate - especially with the lack of puck movers on the back end. Gaffes aside, he really has a strong all-around profile.

 

Hopefully Desharnais and Forbort benefit from playing with our starting squad:  - which should take some pressure off their lack of puck lugging ability.  The forwards need to pick up the slack. 

Edited Thursday at 06:19 PM by The Duke

[stawns]

3 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

He was also underwater for most advanced stats up until last season so it wasn’t just the eye test.
The chaos he got his name for though was not all bad, he had some wild and crazy fun offensive safaris as well. 

The team was also horrible through most of those years which colours his stats significantly , but he shares in responsibility for that awfulness. 

 

Again, coaching

[Jaimito]

 

Ray doing at least 22 Nux games, including home opener.  

 

Edited Thursday at 07:10 PM by Jaimito

[LionofJudah]

12 hours ago, J-23 said:

 

Forgot about Wolanin. I would say out of everyone, I thought Kirill Kudryavtsev was the best, however the AHL development is far more important. 

 

Honestly, I know it's early but I am already looking at Marcus Pettersson trade proposals. 

Just collect them all. The more Pettersson's the better! 

[DeNiro]

1 hour ago, The Duke said:

Re: Myers

 

the coaching change helped - but it’s also the team commitment to getting the puck out of the zone. He also has a quality partner in Soucy which is always been a key to Myers having success.  Bottom line, we’re fortunate to have him at a fairly reasonable rate - especially with the lack of puck movers on the back end. Gaffes aside, he really has a strong all-around profile.

 

Hopefully Desharnais and Forbort benefit from playing with our starting squad:  - which should take some pressure off their lack of puck lugging ability.  The forwards need to pick up the slack. 

If they’re gonna go with a pairing of Forbort and Desharnais they need to give them a healthy amount of minutes and let them round into form.

 

Last thing we need is giving too manny minutes to Hughes and Hronek and burning them out, or Soucy and Myers who are solid at the right amount of minutes but struggle when asked to do too much.

[Northern_Nuck]

19 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

If they’re gonna go with a pairing of Forbort and Desharnais they need to give them a healthy amount of minutes and let them round into form.

 

Last thing we need is giving too manny minutes to Hughes and Hronek and burning them out, or Soucy and Myers who are solid at the right amount of minutes but struggle when asked to do too much.

I feel that too. Myers played his best hockey at 12-15 minutes/game last year. If he’s expected to be a 3/4 and play upwards of 22-23 minutes per game I fear that we’ll see the return of the chaos giraffe. His best hockey is played when he’s a #5 most nights for ice time. 

[BigTramFan]

5 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

 

I am not too broken up about losing Friedman as the 8D. 

My thoughts are that to be a contender, canucks need the capspace to grab a legit top 4 D by tdl. 

Forbort, Desharnais or Myers in the top 4 will not cut it. 

This means that the depth will be pushed down 1 spot and Juulsen will be 8D heading into playoffs. 

It's a long way to the TDL when Soucy (40 gp last season) and Forbort (35 gp last season) are so injury prone.

 

We lose Friedman on waivers and then this is what our defense looks like if Soucy and Forbort are injured...

 

Hughes Hronek

Myers Juulsen

Wolanin Desharnais

 

Much harder to make the playoffs if we throw away our depth.

 

Banking cap space is great but you also need depth on your roster in order to win enough games in the regular season.

 

Not to mention we are no longer banking cap space if there is just 1 injury (i.e. we don't have the cap space to bring up Wolanin without using LTIR). 

 

So my vote is to use LTIR at the start of the season and then work to get out of it during the season. Preferably trading Poolman, but other LTI options are Demko and Joshua.

 

Even if we don't trade Poolman we likely still have most of his $2.5m of LTIR relief to make a splash at the TDL, plus the cap relief from whichever player we are waiving to make room for the new acquisition. 

Edited Thursday at 08:16 PM by BigTramFan

[Provost]

47 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

If they’re gonna go with a pairing of Forbort and Desharnais they need to give them a healthy amount of minutes and let them round into form.

 

Last thing we need is giving too manny minutes to Hughes and Hronek and burning them out, or Soucy and Myers who are solid at the right amount of minutes but struggle when asked to do too much.

Yep, being an excellent 3rd pairing often doesn't equate to being an even average 2nd pairing.

By far the biggest risk to the squad for me is lack of top four D.  It is already "iffy", but one long term injury to Hughes or Hronek would be fairly catastrophic.

I hope I am proven wrong and the system covers the warts.  No Demko to bail them out will also make mistakes much more obvious.

[Bretzky]

31 minutes ago, BigTramFan said:

It's a long way to the TDL when Soucy (40 gp last season) and Forbort (35 gp last season) are so injury prone.

 

We lose Friedman on waivers and then this is what our defense looks like if Soucy and Forbort are injured...

 

Hughes Hronek

Myers Juulsen

Wolanin Desharnais

 

 

I could live with that defenceman lineup.

Just pray that Hughes doesn’t suffer an injury, he’s irreplaceable!! 
 

[GrammaInTheTub]

31 minutes ago, Provost said:

Yep, being an excellent 3rd pairing often doesn't equate to being an even average 2nd pairing.

By far the biggest risk to the squad for me is lack of top four D.  It is already "iffy", but one long term injury to Hughes or Hronek would be fairly catastrophic.

I hope I am proven wrong and the system covers the warts.  No Demko to bail them out will also make mistakes much more obvious.

Except now we have a competent Friedman and Juulsen to step in - who I would be reasonably comfortable with as a regular #6 in leaner years 

[Provost]

1 minute ago, GrammaInTheTub said:

Except now we have a competent Friedman and Juulsen to step in - who I would be reasonably comfortable with as a regular #6 in leaner years 

That is fine if a bottom pairing gets hurt but is of zero help if one of our top guys goes down.

 

Soucy is a complementary dude on a 2nd pairing, so would probably be fine if Hronek was his partner.  
 

Myers, Forbort, Desharnais, Juulsen, and Friedman are all 3rd pairing or depth guys.  It is already a very tall order for some of them to carry a regular roster spot and play any significant minutes without being sheltered.

 

Asking one of them to step up to play big minutes or against better competition is risking absolute disaster.

 

Desharnais was in the press box for a good chunk for the Oilers post season run, and their defence wasn’t exactly stacked.  We are relying on him to improve just to be a solid 3rd pairing player.

 

We need a defence of:

 

Hughes-XX

Soucy-Hronek

Forbort-Myers

Friedman- Desharnais