Canucks Preseason Camp: 15F 9D 3G remain in camp

[Devron]

1 hour ago, Roger Neilsons Towel said:

Looks like the last chance for Åman and Forbort to audition to make the team before being replaced from below by Bains and Friedman/Juulsen. Both the aforementioned have been underwhelming thus far. 

We need a puck mover to play with Vinny. I don’t think him paired with Forbort is gonna work out well. Time will tell though 

[Goose]

Cant wait to see Joshua/Demko back in this line up.  

[flat land fish]

5 minutes ago, Devron said:

We need a puck mover to play with Vinny. I don’t think him paired with Forbort is gonna work out well. Time will tell though 

They probably play limited 5 on 5 minutes <10 minutes per game against the other teams bottom 2 lines.  Can they manage that?

[Cali Canuck]

13 minutes ago, Roger Neilsons Towel said:

I hope he improves quickly then. He’s looked very out of place and has been outplayed by Defenseman below him. Hopefully just getting used to new systems. 

 

Agreed. Forbort  is the only new guy I'm concerned about.

[Johngould21]

2 minutes ago, Cali Canuck said:

 

Agreed. Forbort  is the only new guy I'm concerned about.

I haven't seen anything that makes him a better option than Juulsen or Friedman.

[Stierlitz]

 

[DeNiro]

12 minutes ago, Johngould21 said:

I haven't seen anything that makes him a better option than Juulsen or Friedman.

Which is why he’ll likely start as the 7/8.

 

Friedman has earned a spot in the starting 6 over the other two.

 

Still think they gotta be looking at a trade to upgrade that bottom pair though.

[Honkin Hronek]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Which is why he’ll likely start as the 7/8.

 

Friedman has earned a spot in the starting 6 over the other two.

 

Still think they gotta be looking at a trade to upgrade that bottom pair though.

Trade Poolman with a decent prospect, acquire Ferraro with retention. Do it

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, Devron said:

We need a puck mover to play with Vinny. I don’t think him paired with Forbort is gonna work out well. Time will tell though 

 

Word has it that Kirill Koltsov is finally done playing in Russia, maybe we can finally get him over here 

[AK-19]

36 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Which is why he’ll likely start as the 7/8.

 

Friedman has earned a spot in the starting 6 over the other two.

 

Still think they gotta be looking at a trade to upgrade that bottom pair though.

 

I find it awkward that our 7/8 Dmen in Friedman and Juulsen are both RHD. I was hoping by now we'd swap one of them for a decent LHD instead of forcing them to their off-hand to fill in the 3rd pairing LHD. 

[Reznor]

5 minutes ago, AK-19 said:

 

I find it awkward that our 7/8 Dmen in Friedman and Juulsen are both RHD. I was hoping by now we'd swap one of them for a decent LHD instead of forcing them to their off-hand to fill in the 3rd pairing LHD. 

I might get flak for this, but do we not feel Wolanin is capable as a backup on the left side? This team has never really given him much opportunity to prove he is capable as he's always stuck in the AHL. The dude got 55 points in 49 AHL games in the 22-23 season, and he's even slightly bigger than Friedman too.

[flat land fish]

10 minutes ago, Reznor said:

I might get flak for this, but do we not feel Wolanin is capable as a backup on the left side? This team has never really given him much opportunity to prove he is capable as he's always stuck in the AHL. The dude got 55 points in 49 AHL games in the 22-23 season, and he's even slightly bigger than Friedman too.

As a puck moving guy would be interesting seeing him with one of the big guys

[chris12345]

1 hour ago, flat land fish said:

They probably play limited 5 on 5 minutes <10 minutes per game against the other teams bottom 2 lines.  Can they manage that?

No

[Googlie]

7 hours ago, MikeyD said:

People are really sleeping on Bains. He's the playmaking version of Tyler Motte. 

 

There's a reason he wasn't sent down at the cut and I'm glad Tocchet sees it.

 

Also Aman needs to not be in the NHL. Kid is good enough to defend but can't produce to save his life.

 

He hasn't done it (yet) in the NHL, but be created quite a stir in Abby - and throughout the AHL - by scoring 2 shorties in the same PK.  IIRC it had only been done once before in  the AHL and 3 times in the NHL

 

correction ... it was Bains, not Aman, who got the 2 shorties in the same PK

 

 

https://canucksarmy.com/news/the-farmies-filip-johanssons-ahl-debut-arshdeep-bains-two-shorthanded-goals-worst-game-management-history-ahl

 

Edited 15 hours ago by Googlie
Correction

[flat land fish]

18 minutes ago, chris12345 said:

No

Alot of the Pittsburgh teams under our current management had meh defense on paper but didn't hold them back.

[Roger Neilsons Towel]

5 minutes ago, flat land fish said:

Alot of the Pittsburgh teams under our current management had meh defense on paper but didn't hold them back.

“Meh” shouldn’t be the bar that we’re going for here. We have elite players in their window. We need to compete now.
 

Defence wins championships. That third pairing isn’t good enough. I’m not convinced that any of those bottom three will change that, but I certainly don’t want to accept the defenceman that has been the worst out of the three.

[Lewlowned]

Tocchet Presser:

 

 

[Lewlowned]

1 hour ago, Reznor said:

I might get flak for this, but do we not feel Wolanin is capable as a backup on the left side? This team has never really given him much opportunity to prove he is capable as he's always stuck in the AHL. The dude got 55 points in 49 AHL games in the 22-23 season, and he's even slightly bigger than Friedman too.

I also wish Wolanin had stayed up and was given a chance in the bigs. He is offensively gifted and a great puck mover, but he struggles defensively.

 

He also doesn’t PK, which we need from our third pairing, and PK ability is probably the only reason Forbort is as high as he is on the depth chart.

 

Even though he’s 6’2 (3” taller than Friedman) Wolanin isn’t very physical, another thing we want in our bottom pair.

 

It seems to me he is effective in the AHL but is missing some key things to be a 5/6 in the NHL. 

[NoCupSyndrome]

15 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

 

Pretty sure the front office is working hard to find a way to move Poolman. There have been rumours his contract isn't insured, but not sure if that has ever been proven.

 

If they can't trade him I think they will need to put him onto LTIR. The amount cap space we can accrue with him on IR is so minimal that it isn't worth the risk of having a reduced roster. If they can manage to trade him sometime during the season, then we should still be able to accrue quite a bit of space prior to the TDL.

 

One easy way to avoid losing depth guys like Aman, Juulsen and Friedman is to send Silovs down at the start of the season (he's waiver exempt). Then immediately place Poolman onto LTIR (which would give us an LTIR pool of $2.33m) and then bring Silovs back up prior to the first game. This would maximise the LTIR relief we get from Poolman.

 

I was trying to work this out as well, even after papering down Raty, Bains, and Silovs plus sending down Hirose, won't Mgmt still have to waive one more player because of the Poolman contract. I guess it would be between Aman and Friedman?

 

If they start the season with Poolman in LTIR and then get "compliment" in season, are they able to start accruing? I could be totally wrong but I thought I heard something about teams having to start the season under the cap with no LTIR in order to accrue.

 

[MikeyD]

3 hours ago, bh90 said:

 

I really want to see 

Debrusk - Petey - Sherwood and

??? - Suter - Sprong

 

Sprong needs to be the alpha on his line so why not surround him defensively minded players? The Bains - Suter - Sprong line was unreal vs Edmonton

 

Sherwood might compliment Debrusk/Petey better as he does the dirty work, crashes the crease and he's got skill too

Bains works well with Sprong because he isn't a systems style of player. Both him and Sprong like to roam on the ice to support the puck carrier. Bit more east/west in the zone but it compliments each other. On the rush they're fairly north/south but will do drop passes to trailer and both like to weave and trail. I think Suter is interchangeable there. I really like Sprong there. I wonder if Petey won't be able to fit with Sprong due to this. Petey isn't east/west at all and I think it hurts him a lot of the time because he has the ability to dish very well and he doesn't utilize inside or outside cuts the way he should to open up ice. On the contrary it might work perfectly because Petey seems really tough to play with so it might take a more creative player to open up his playmaking. Will be interesting to see once they inevitably get the chance to play together.

[Lewlowned]

21 minutes ago, NoCupSyndrome said:

 

I was trying to work this out as well, even after papering down Raty, Bains, and Silovs plus sending down Hirose, won't Mgmt still have to waive one more player because of the Poolman contract. I guess it would be between Aman and Friedman?

 

If they start the season with Poolman in LTIR and then get "compliment" in season, are they able to start accruing? I could be totally wrong but I thought I heard something about teams having to start the season under the cap with no LTIR in order to accrue.

 

I may be wrong on this, but I believe you can start the year in LTIR and still accrue later on once the player is off LTIR.

 

The issue we have faced is that when Poolman is placed on LTIR at the beginning of the year, he can never be taken off it.

 

Whereas if Demko starts on LTIR, eventually he will be healthy and taken off LTIR, at which point we would start accruing. 
 

Again, I’m not certain this is the case, so would appreciate if someone had more clarity.

[BigTramFan]

1 hour ago, NoCupSyndrome said:

 

I was trying to work this out as well, even after papering down Raty, Bains, and Silovs plus sending down Hirose, won't Mgmt still have to waive one more player because of the Poolman contract. I guess it would be between Aman and Friedman?

 

If they start the season with Poolman in LTIR and then get "compliment" in season, are they able to start accruing? I could be totally wrong but I thought I heard something about teams having to start the season under the cap with no LTIR in order to accrue.

 

A season opening roster of:

 

Heinen Miller Boeser

DeBrusk Pettersson Sprong

Hoglander Blueger Garland

Aman Suter Sherwood

Hughes Hronek

Soucy Myers

Forbort Desharnais

Friedman Juulsen

 

Lankinen

 

Joshua - IR

Demko - IR

Poolman - IR

 

Has a total cap hit of 87.8m

 

Prior to the opening game Poolman can be placed on LTIR and Silovs (plus 1 of Raty or Bains) can be brought up from minors.

 

In terms of accruing cap space, having Poolman on LTIR will not give us any cap space to accrue. However, with only $90k of cap space, the accrual is less than a league minimum player by the TDL, so I don’t see the benefit in remaining out of LTIR. Move Poolman sometime in the season and his LTIR goes with him, allowing you to accrue significant space by the TDL.

 

Another option is to put Demko or Joshua on LTIR but that means they are out for minimum 10 games, and we obviously want them back sooner if possible. And none of us know the status or timeline for Demko and Joshua, so seems smart to keep those guys on IR.

Edited 12 hours ago by BigTramFan

[DeNiro]

I don’t know if accruing cap space needs to be the be all and end all.

 

Like did we need Lindholm last season? Seems like he was just a replacement for Kuzmenko and has since been replaced by Debrusk.

 

If we can make a trade for another D man like we did with Zadorov I think we would be just as deep and wouldn’t need a deadline deal.

[BigTramFan]

45 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

I don’t know if accruing cap space needs to be the be all and end all.

 

Like did we need Lindholm last season? Seems like he was just a replacement for Kuzmenko and has since been replaced by Debrusk.

 

If we can make a trade for another D man like we did with Zadorov I think we would be just as deep and wouldn’t need a deadline deal.

Agreed. It's nice if you can make it happen.

 

Also need to consider how much you can realistically accrue and whether it is worth all the risks to accrue it.

 

Currently at $90k of cap space on opening night (assuming you can maintain $90k space throughout the season) converts to being able to add $362k at the TDL. Not exactly worth worrying about.

 

Compare that to trading Poolman and clearing $2.5m cap space for the whole season, giving you $10m in accrued cap space at the TDL.

 

[BigTramFan]

1 hour ago, Lewlowned said:

I may be wrong on this, but I believe you can start the year in LTIR and still accrue later on once the player is off LTIR.

 

Yes that is correct.

 

1 hour ago, Lewlowned said:

The issue we have faced is that when Poolman is placed on LTIR at the beginning of the year, he can never be taken off it.

 

Correct again. But if we trade him then his LTIR goes with him.

 

1 hour ago, Lewlowned said:

Whereas if Demko starts on LTIR, eventually he will be healthy and taken off LTIR, at which point we would start accruing. 

 

Yes that is correct. But LTIR means you are missing a minimum of 10 games, so we wouldn't want to put Demko on LTIR unless we know that he is going to miss that time. 

 

If Canucks go with Demko on LTIR they are projected to be $165k below the cap limit when he returns (with this roster that assumes Joshua is healthy and Silovs is waived upon Demko's return):

 

Heinen Miller Boeser

DeBrusk Pettersson Sprong

Joshua Blueger Garland

Hoglander Suter Sherwood

(Aman)

Hughes Hronek

Soucy Myers

Forbort Desharnais

(Friedman Juulsen)

 

Demko

Lankinen

 

Poolman - IR

 

Let's say this happens 30 days into the season, then the projected cap accrual by the deadline will be:

 

$165k x (186-30-37)/37 = $530k

 

Hardly worth worrying about an extra $530k cap space at the TDL