Crabcakes Posted Sunday at 05:27 PM Share Posted Sunday at 05:27 PM 34 minutes ago, Drive-By Body Pierce said: And yet, he won the GM of the year award in 2011. What Gillis did very well was take a team with a good core and gather all of the support pieces. They were the best team in the league for 2 years. There were also a lot of forward thinking aspects to the team like sleep doctors etc What he didn't do was draft well. He was looking for smart players and also drafted mostly from the OHL. Most of the top players came from the O but he missed out on a lot as well. Even when he was trying to draft, he struck out. Hodgson was his first big pick. Gaunce was another. Smart guy but..... I saw Gaunce as a future coach or GM but didn't quite have it as a player. In the end, the Canucks unraveled and fell to the bottom in record speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drive-By Body Pierce Posted Sunday at 05:32 PM Share Posted Sunday at 05:32 PM 41 minutes ago, Hammertime said: I'm talking about 2014. At that point the writing was on the wall he was no longer the right person for the job. He did a lot of good in his tenure here. So worst drafting in history is one season? Got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drive-By Body Pierce Posted Sunday at 05:35 PM Share Posted Sunday at 05:35 PM 6 minutes ago, Crabcakes said: What Gillis did very well was take a team with a good core and gather all of the support pieces. They were the best team in the league for 2 years. There were also a lot of forward thinking aspects to the team like sleep doctors etc What he didn't do was draft well. He was looking for smart players and also drafted mostly from the OHL. Most of the top players came from the O but he missed out on a lot as well. Even when he was trying to draft, he struck out. Hodgson was his first big pick. Gaunce was another. Smart guy but..... I saw Gaunce as a future coach or GM but didn't quite have it as a player. In the end, the Canucks unraveled and fell to the bottom in record speed. I can't find the quotes, but he wanted to rebuild before then. The conjecture and impressions were that Aqualini was not for it because he wanted to go for the playoff income. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drive-By Body Pierce Posted Sunday at 05:36 PM Share Posted Sunday at 05:36 PM 50 minutes ago, Nucker67 said: He had the Sedins and Luongo to thank for that I don't think they were in the GM role. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewlowned Posted Sunday at 05:42 PM Share Posted Sunday at 05:42 PM (edited) 27 minutes ago, Stierlitz said: Basically Group A against Group B Essentially! The changes from yesterday's groups are: Team A: Removed: - Wolanin (D, sent to team B) - Felton (D, sent to group C) Added: - None Team B: Removed: - Hirose (D, sent to group C) - Mynio (D, sent to group C) - Alcos (D, sent to group C) - Ahac (D, back to group C) - Romani (F, sent to group C) Added: - Wolanin (D) - Nielsen (F) Edited Sunday at 05:54 PM by Lewlowned 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewlowned Posted Sunday at 05:43 PM Share Posted Sunday at 05:43 PM Blueger is in a full contact jersey, though still with group C 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted Sunday at 05:45 PM Share Posted Sunday at 05:45 PM 35 minutes ago, Alflives said: Gillis was GM for two Presidents trophies and had a club play two games for the Cup. He guided the club during its best era. Our owner should have allowed Gillis to rebuild, when he asked to go so, instead of firing him and hiring Jimbob. We do have great management again. And we are winning again. There is a definite correlation. Yeah, but 78% of all minutes played and all points generated in the cup run were from guys that Nonis and Burke brought to the team. Gillis was better suited to being team President, we needed a better overall GM to put the team over the top. Gillis had a couple of wins on trades, but overall, he wasn't all that good at drafting or trading. He got fleeced on the Ballard trade, over paid for a guy who wasn't all that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted Sunday at 05:49 PM Share Posted Sunday at 05:49 PM 3 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: Yeah, but 78% of all minutes played and all points generated in the cup run were from guys that Nonis and Burke brought to the team. Gillis was better suited to being team President, we needed a better overall GM to put the team over the top. Gillis had a couple of wins on trades, but overall, he wasn't all that good at drafting or trading. He got fleeced on the Ballard trade, over paid for a guy who wasn't all that good. What were Gillis’s draft positions compared with Dim Jim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drive-By Body Pierce Posted Sunday at 05:52 PM Share Posted Sunday at 05:52 PM 5 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: Yeah, but 78% of all minutes played and all points generated in the cup run were from guys that Nonis and Burke brought to the team. Gillis was better suited to being team President, we needed a better overall GM to put the team over the top. Gillis had a couple of wins on trades, but overall, he wasn't all that good at drafting or trading. He got fleeced on the Ballard trade, over paid for a guy who wasn't all that good. You know the team has a drafting department, with scouts and everything. And a good boss/manager/leader trusts his staff to do their job, not micromanage and make all the decisions himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted Sunday at 05:52 PM Share Posted Sunday at 05:52 PM 1 hour ago, Drive-By Body Pierce said: And yet, he won the GM of the year award in 2011. He won, but he didn't really do any trades that really made the Canucks, "His Team" He mainly rode the work of the previous 2 GM's and their strength was trading. Nonis and Burke brought the overall talent here, Gillis did an ok job of bringing in a few bottom 6 guys. There wasn't a defining trade like Allvin did, moving our captain to address need and put his real stamp on the roster. If I look at this team today, there are pieces left behind by Benning's regime, but the overall team is very much Allvin and JR's now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted Sunday at 05:55 PM Share Posted Sunday at 05:55 PM 4 minutes ago, Alflives said: What were Gillis’s draft positions compared with Dim Jim? Not defending Bennings time here. He made more than his share of mistakes. I'm saying that a lot of fans look at Gillis's time here with Rose colored glasses. I'm not saying Gillis was a total failure, but his overall talent is better positioned as a team President. His management of actual personnel and trades was average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted Sunday at 05:57 PM Share Posted Sunday at 05:57 PM 34 minutes ago, Alflives said: Gillis was GM for two Presidents trophies and had a club play two games for the Cup. He guided the club during its best era. Our owner should have allowed Gillis to rebuild, when he asked to go so, instead of firing him and hiring Jimbob. We do have great management again. And we are winning again. There is a definite correlation. We weren't in a window to be a winning team. No GM would have been able to play the hand MG dealt him with success he literally didn't draft a single player other than Bo. Do you really think If MG had remained GM the team would have remained successful or would be successful today? Benning for all of his flaws and they were many. Planted trees under whos shade he would never sit. I am grateful for that. In much the same way I am grateful that Burkie assembled most of our team in 2011 while MG iced the cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drive-By Body Pierce Posted Sunday at 05:59 PM Share Posted Sunday at 05:59 PM Just now, VegasCanuck said: He won, but he didn't really do any trades that really made the Canucks, "His Team" He mainly rode the work of the previous 2 GM's and their strength was trading. Nonis and Burke brought the overall talent here, Gillis did an ok job of bringing in a few bottom 6 guys. There wasn't a defining trade like Allvin did, moving our captain to address need and put his real stamp on the roster. If I look at this team today, there are pieces left behind by Benning's regime, but the overall team is very much Allvin and JR's now. Clearly the professionals in the industry who vote for the awards thought he was deserving. It's a completely different environment now. I'm not sure how you can compare them equally. Gillis was a pioneer bringing in things like new age nutrition, conditioning and sleep specialists, things that are standard across the league now. I do think Allvin was more deserving of the award than Jim Nill last season, but clearly one defining trade does not define GM of the year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted Sunday at 06:01 PM Share Posted Sunday at 06:01 PM 4 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: Not defending Bennings time here. He made more than his share of mistakes. I'm saying that a lot of fans look at Gillis's time here with Rose colored glasses. I'm not saying Gillis was a total failure, but his overall talent is better positioned as a team President. His management of actual personnel and trades was average. Gillis was both President and GM during our best ever era. Our owner was foolish not to listen to him and rebuild when Gillis presented that plan. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drive-By Body Pierce Posted Sunday at 06:01 PM Share Posted Sunday at 06:01 PM 2 minutes ago, Hammertime said: We weren't in a window to be a winning team. No GM would have been able to play the hand MG dealt him with success he literally didn't draft a single player other than Bo. Do you really think If MG had remained GM the team would have remained successful or would be successful today? Benning for all of his flaws and they were many. Planted trees under whos shade he would never sit. I am grateful for that. In much the same way I am grateful that Burkie assembled most of our team in 2011 while MG iced the cake. Again, he wanted to rebuild, Aqualini did not, so Gillis got his walking papers. Aqualini thought the Canucks could tweak the roster and continue being a playoff team, so he hired Jim the yes-man to lead the Canucks into perennial mediocrity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted Sunday at 06:03 PM Share Posted Sunday at 06:03 PM 3 minutes ago, Drive-By Body Pierce said: You know the team has a drafting department, with scouts and everything. And a good boss/manager/leader trusts his staff to do their job, not micromanage and make all the decisions himself. Absolutely, but the job those guys do are a reflection of the person who hired them and of the directives they are given. Drafts are always a crap shoot. I have said a number of times, I will take a solid player who has proven that he can play in the NHL over a draft pick any day. Past the first 5 picks and on many draft years, not even with the first 5, do you have any guarantee of your pick turning into an NHL player. Juolevi, who a lot of people blame Benning for was rated by Brian Burke at exactly the same level as Tkachuk. He has stated they would have been happy with either of them. Juolevi was derailed by multiple lost seasons due to injuries requiring surgery, but I don't hold that against a GM. You draft based on who you think has the ability to develop, and if they get run over by a car the day after the draft, you had no ability to spot that. Beating Benning up about Virtanen I'm completely good with, the attitude issue should have been spotted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANJR Posted Sunday at 06:03 PM Share Posted Sunday at 06:03 PM Wooo-hooo Canucks are going to win the first game they play this season....lets keep it going! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted Sunday at 06:05 PM Share Posted Sunday at 06:05 PM Just now, Drive-By Body Pierce said: Again, he wanted to rebuild, Aqualini did not, so Gillis got his walking papers. Aqualini thought the Canucks could tweak the roster and continue being a playoff team, so he hired Jim the yes-man to lead the Canucks into perennial mediocrity. Exactly! Gillis was on the old Team 1040 with Scotty and Ray just before he was fired. He spoke quite openly about what was going on. Likely his speaking openly is why he will never get another job in the nhl. He is not trusted to protect his owner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drive-By Body Pierce Posted Sunday at 06:06 PM Share Posted Sunday at 06:06 PM 2 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: Absolutely, but the job those guys do are a reflection of the person who hired them and of the directives they are given. Drafts are always a crap shoot. I have said a number of times, I will take a solid player who has proven that he can play in the NHL over a draft pick any day. Past the first 5 picks and on many draft years, not even with the first 5, do you have any guarantee of your pick turning into an NHL player. Juolevi, who a lot of people blame Benning for was rated by Brian Burke at exactly the same level as Tkachuk. He has stated they would have been happy with either of them. Juolevi was derailed by multiple lost seasons due to injuries requiring surgery, but I don't hold that against a GM. You draft based on who you think has the ability to develop, and if they get run over by a car the day after the draft, you had no ability to spot that. Beating Benning up about Virtanen I'm completely good with, the attitude issue should have been spotted. None of which defines Gillis as the worst drafter in Canucks history, in fact it kinda says otherwise, especially given the position at which the Canucks were drafting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted Sunday at 06:07 PM Share Posted Sunday at 06:07 PM 5 minutes ago, Drive-By Body Pierce said: Clearly the professionals in the industry who vote for the awards thought he was deserving. It's a completely different environment now. I'm not sure how you can compare them equally. Gillis was a pioneer bringing in things like new age nutrition, conditioning and sleep specialists, things that are standard across the league now. I do think Allvin was more deserving of the award than Jim Nill last season, but clearly one defining trade does not define GM of the year. Again, the things that you are referencing for Gillis are objectives that should be defined at President level, they are more team culture decisions and directions. I also thought that they were exceptional decisions. But that doesn't address his drafting or trading record which is more of a GM related duties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted Sunday at 06:07 PM Share Posted Sunday at 06:07 PM 9 minutes ago, Alflives said: What were Gillis’s draft positions compared with Dim Jim? Not counting high picks. Benning pulled Boeser, Mccann, Demko, Hoglander, Forsling, Silovs, Gadjovich, Lind, MG pulled Ben Hutton, Kevin Connauton, and I guess Gaunce is kinda in the nhl ish? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drive-By Body Pierce Posted Sunday at 06:10 PM Share Posted Sunday at 06:10 PM 1 minute ago, VegasCanuck said: Again, the things that you are referencing for Gillis are objectives that should be defined at President level, they are more team culture decisions and directions. I also thought that they were exceptional decisions. But that doesn't address his drafting or trading record which is more of a GM related duties. And still, he got GM of the year, not President. Tough argument to say he was the worst at his duties in history as GM only to be awarded best GM in the league. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted Sunday at 06:12 PM Share Posted Sunday at 06:12 PM 6 minutes ago, Alflives said: Gillis was both President and GM during our best ever era. Our owner was foolish not to listen to him and rebuild when Gillis presented that plan. I know he was, my point is that he should have been President and turned GM duties over to someone else. I think he was actually a pretty good President. I think he was an average GM at best. The award that he was was reflective of the team success, it did not take into account who assembled the bulk of the talent on the team. Gillis made a few good moves, but GM wasn't his strength. The fact that 78% of all minutes and points were from previous GM's support that and I'm sure that it's not something that the people voting took into account. If he was a solid GM, someone would have given him another shot at the job by now. Benning hasn't had another shot either. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted Sunday at 06:14 PM Share Posted Sunday at 06:14 PM 6 minutes ago, Drive-By Body Pierce said: None of which defines Gillis as the worst drafter in Canucks history, in fact it kinda says otherwise, especially given the position at which the Canucks were drafting. I didn't say he was the worst drafter anywhere in my posts, I said it wasn't his strength which is supported by his lack of results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted Sunday at 06:16 PM Share Posted Sunday at 06:16 PM 2 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said: Absolutely, but the job those guys do are a reflection of the person who hired them and of the directives they are given. Drafts are always a crap shoot. I have said a number of times, I will take a solid player who has proven that he can play in the NHL over a draft pick any day. Past the first 5 picks and on many draft years, not even with the first 5, do you have any guarantee of your pick turning into an NHL player. Juolevi, who a lot of people blame Benning for was rated by Brian Burke at exactly the same level as Tkachuk. He has stated they would have been happy with either of them. Juolevi was derailed by multiple lost seasons due to injuries requiring surgery, but I don't hold that against a GM. You draft based on who you think has the ability to develop, and if they get run over by a car the day after the draft, you had no ability to spot that. Beating Benning up about Virtanen I'm completely good with, the attitude issue should have been spotted. Benning thought he was the smartest scout in the group. He’d go watch a guy for a weekend and then decide that’s who he was drafting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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