Canucks Training Camp Thread - September 19-22, 2024

[Hammertime]

6 minutes ago, Drive-By Body Pierce said:

 

And still, he got GM of the year, not President. Tough argument to say he was the worst at his duties in history as GM only to be awarded best GM in the league.

Suter won the jack adams and was fired the next year what's your point. 

[VegasCanuck]

4 minutes ago, Drive-By Body Pierce said:

 

And still, he got GM of the year, not President. Tough argument to say he was the worst at his duties in history as GM only to be awarded best GM in the league.

As I stated in other posts, I'm pretty sure thar they only look at the overall results of the team on the ice, not who actually assembled the talent that generated the results.

 

Nonis was released, not because he was doing a good job, but because of a battle within ownership structure at the time. Nonis engineered one of the most critical trades in the history of the Canucks. Without that trade, it's doubtful that the Canucks make the final in 2011, much less the President's trophy.

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

Just now, VegasCanuck said:

I didn't say he was the worst drafter anywhere in my posts, I said it wasn't his strength which is supported by his lack of results. 

 

Oh my apologies, I confused you with one of the other posters in the conversation.

 

Sure, I'll give you that, it wasn't one of his strengths - I just didn't like the hyperbole. I do think, in a rebuild scenario with an emphasis on draft and development, he would have had better results in that area instead of focusing on icing the best team possible immediately.

[VegasCanuck]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Benning thought he was the smartest scout in the group. He’d go watch a guy for a weekend and then decide that’s who he was drafting. 

Not arguing that, Alf, but this exchange isn't about Benning, I'm just saying that Gillis was overrated as a GM and probably under appreciated as a President. Running a team is a massive thing to handle as both GM and President.  If he had picked just to do President, we might have had better longevity. He committed us to a massive number of contracts that had full NMC's which tied the hands of any new regime on trading. 

[VegasCanuck]

5 minutes ago, Drive-By Body Pierce said:

 

Oh my apologies, I confused you with one of the other posters in the conversation.

 

Sure, I'll give you that, it wasn't one of his strengths - I just didn't like the hyperbole. I do think, in a rebuild scenario with an emphasis on draft and development, he would have had better results in that area instead of focusing on icing the best team possible immediately.

Gillis, go back and look, he locked us into NMC's on a huge number of players. It's why we only had one team to negotiate with in trading Kesler.

 

Like I said though, Gillis did have some really good points, but he needed to focus on one job and bring in someone to run GM. Part of where I see Bennings overall failure was that they didn't replace Linden. Benning needed someone above him.

 

The fact there wasn't is on ownership.

Edited Sunday at 06:25 PM by VegasCanuck

[Sooey Steamer]

Hey folks - there are so many other threads and places to conduct the "worst GM of all history" argument.  Can we get back to training camp now...

Thanks!

 

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

2 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

As I stated in other posts, I'm pretty sure thar they only look at the overall results of the team on the ice, not who actually assembled the talent that generated the results.

 

Nonis was released, not because he was doing a good job, but because of a battle within ownership structure at the time. Nonis engineered one of the most critical trades in the history of the Canucks. Without that trade, it's doubtful that the Canucks make the final in 2011, much less the President's trophy.

 

It's very difficult, even impossible to say what would have happened if something else did or didn't happen.

 

I would say Gillis was ousted for similar reasons.

 

And if it's the overall results on the ice to be the determining factor in choosing GM of year, that would mean the President's trophy winning team would also have the GM of the year every year, which is obviously not the case.

[Crabcakes]

35 minutes ago, Drive-By Body Pierce said:

 

I can't find the quotes, but he wanted to rebuild before then. The conjecture and impressions were that Aqualini was not for it because he wanted to go for the playoff income.

Ya, Gillis has said that after 2013-14 he wanted to rebuild and he had a plan all laid out.  The first step was trading Schneider to draft Horvat.  However, ownership wouldn't allow the rebuild.  My opinion was that Aquilini thought they could re-tool and take another crack at the cup with the Sedins.  That's when they picked up Tortorella (which I think was another ownership decision) which turned out badly.  That was the end of Gillis and Kessler soon followed.

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

1 minute ago, VegasCanuck said:

Gillis, go back and look, he locked us into NMC's on a huge number of players. It's why we only had one team to negotiate with in trading Kesler.

 

Like I said though, Gillis did have some really good points, but he needed to focus on one job and bring in someone to run GM. Part of where I see Bennings overall failure was that they didn't replace Linden. Benning needed someone above him.

 

It was the NMCs that helped to convince the core to stay together during the high points. So while they were bad at times, they were also good at times.

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

2 minutes ago, Sooey Steamer said:

Hey folks - there are so many other threads and places to conduct the "worst GM of all history" argument.  Can we get back to training camp now...

Thanks!

 

 

Agreed.

 

Nice to have a group debating that doesn't immediately become inflammatory though. Cheers guys.

[VegasCanuck]

Just now, Drive-By Body Pierce said:

 

It's very difficult, even impossible to say what would have happened if something else did or didn't happen.

 

I would say Gillis was ousted for similar reasons.

 

And if it's the overall results on the ice to be the determining factor in choosing GM of year, that would mean the President's trophy winning team would also have the GM of the year every year, which is obviously not the case.

He was ousted because the team was failing, our prospect cupboards were completely empty and we were locked into a whole bunch of NMCs. The team needed fresh perspective, we had a very stale core and there wasn't trust that he could engineer a turnaround after mishandling the coaching and the Luongo exit / being stuck trading Schneider. 

[VegasCanuck]

2 minutes ago, Drive-By Body Pierce said:

 

It was the NMCs that helped to convince the core to stay together during the high points. So while they were bad at times, they were also good at times.

Yes, but you need to balance that.

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

Just now, VegasCanuck said:

He was ousted because the team was failing, our prospect cupboards were completely empty and we were locked into a whole bunch of NMCs. The team needed fresh perspective, we had a very stale core and there wasn't trust that he could engineer a turnaround after mishandling the coaching and the Luongo exit / being stuck trading Schneider. 

 

Not from what he said in his radio interview, as @Alflives alluded to. But, moving on from this thread, since it's a training camp thread.

 

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

1 minute ago, VegasCanuck said:

Yes, but you need to balance that.

 

That seems like a balance right there, top of the league at one point, and didn't ever actually make it to the bottom. All teams go through those cycles for the same reason.

 

But, moving on... tag me in a pertinent thread if you are truly interested in discussing more.

[VegasCanuck]

2 minutes ago, Drive-By Body Pierce said:

 

That seems like a balance right there, top of the league at one point, and didn't ever actually make it to the bottom. All teams go through those cycles for the same reason.

 

But, moving on... tag me in a pertinent thread if you are truly interested in discussing more.

I look at what Allvin and JR have managed to achieve so far without giving out full NMC's like candy. It can be done.

[Hammertime]

47 minutes ago, Drive-By Body Pierce said:

 

So worst drafting in history is one season? Got it.

 

He was terrible at drafting his entire tenure. He won GM of the year for bringing in Hamhuis, Malhotra, Higgins, Max Lap, Ehrhoff those were great moves to bolster the team of Sedins, Kes, Luongo, Edler, Bieksa, Burr, Salo, Raymond that he inherited.

 

Ill talk slow for you since you may have lead poisoning from all your body piercings. 

 

By the year 2014 he had exhaused all of our teams assets and drafted terribly. The Sedins were aged out the team was stale and predictable. We were headed for dark times no matter who was at the helm.  

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

Just now, VegasCanuck said:

I look at what Allvin and JR have managed to achieve so far without giving out full NMC's like candy. It can be done.

 

Oh I think this management group is far superior as well! But it is also a different era.

[Breadnbutta]

I'm gonna join on the conversation.

 

I'd call Jim Benning our 2nd worst gm next to Bill Laforge. 

 

Given Bennings extra long terrible tenure, he should be at the bottom but the JTM trade saves him that title in my opinion.

 

Gillis was a good GM for the time he was hired, to add the supportive pieces and his forward thinking.

 

But he also made poor decisions which helped shorten our peak, like the goalie controversies and terrible drafting and development.

 

In my opinion our best GMs are 

 

1. Pat Quinn

2. Brian Burke

3. Mike Gillis

4. Patrik Allvin (he is quickly climbing the ranks with his fast turn around)

5. Dave Nonis (wasn't GM for long, but he brought in Luongo)

 

Hopefully PA ends up number one soon and we parade down Robson through Stanley's Park.

[Crabcakes]

32 minutes ago, Drive-By Body Pierce said:

 

Again, he wanted to rebuild, Aqualini did not, so Gillis got his walking papers. Aqualini thought the Canucks could tweak the roster and continue being a playoff team, so he hired Jim the yes-man to lead the Canucks into perennial mediocrity.

 

It was an emotional call by Aquilini.  They were so close to a cup and they didn't want to rebuild.  They wanted the cup for their then 81 year old father Luigi

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

1 minute ago, Hammertime said:

 

He was terrible at drafting his entire tenure. He won GM of the year for bringing in Hamhuis, Malhotra, Higgins, Max Lap, Ehrhoff those were great moves to bolster the team of Sedins, Kes, Luongo, Edler, Bieksa, Burr, Salo, Raymond that he inherited.

 

Ill talk slow for you since you may have lead poisoning from all your body piercings. 

 

By the year 2014 he had exhaused all of our teams assets and drafted terribly. The Sedins were aged out the team was stale and predictable. We were headed for dark times no matter who was at the helm.  

 

Again, he wanted to rebuild, but was not allowed, so he didn't have the chance to evolve the team.

 

But let's leave this thread to training camp discussion.

[Curmudgeon]

Just now, Breadnbutta said:

I'd call Jim Benning our 2nd worst gm next to Bill Laforge. 

 

Bill Laforge was never GM.

[Captkirk888]

Hey canuckleheads

 

Here at the SOEC for the scrimnage game.

[Captkirk888]

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

What were Gillis’s draft positions compared with Dim Jim? 

 

Gillis was an old tired moran raccoon. His drafting was probably the worst in NHL history.

 

[DANJR]

can someone post a linik just in case.  Sometimes it doesn't work for me off the main site