[PGT] Calgary @ Vancouver

[SilentSam]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

 

Agree to disagree on the home opener, I don't think Zadorov would have made much of a difference. He may have wound up fighting instead of Miller, but I don't think his presence would have put a damper on it being a chippy game. For context, teams that are expected to be losers most of the season hear about how they're supposed to be losers most of the season, more than likely Calgary was always going to come out and try to demonstrate that they're not just going to roll over this season, it was their first game too. Players have pride, they want to win.

 

If you dig into Mantha a bit, he's a guy who maybe fights 1-3 times a season but that jumps up and down over his career. Over the past five seasons he's only had one season where he's fought more than once, that was 22-23, which saw him fight 3 times. I spoke to the Flames wanting to show they're not just gonna roll over, Mantha's a guy who very much wants to show that he can stick in this league. 30 years old and on a single year deal, probably hoping to get flipped to a playoff team at the deadline if the Flames sputter out as they're expected to. Lots of reasons for him to come in and stir the pot, he's got to actually be a presence going forward if other teams are to want him. 

 

And yeah, he did, but I don't blame the Canucks for not caving. It goes two ways, if he really wanted to stay he also could have gave a bit and simply taken the offer but he opted for the term and money, that's on him. Takes two to tango, he very easily could have decided it was still worth staying for an extra year less. There's guff about Myers, but he did exactly that, he absolutely could have gotten more than 3x3 via UFA. Others like Blueger and Joshua took less than they could have gotten via UFA as well, Blueger actually took a 100k pay cut. 

 

Maybe, maybe not, but he didn't perform the way he had during the regular season in the playoff time. He had a good stretch of games, his best stretch of games, come playoff time. But teams shouldn't pay a guy based on a small sample size, you look at the rest of it, and his historical ice time backs up that he wasn't a top 4D in Calgary of Colorado either. Regarding Canucks D, he was sixth in average ice time last season behind Hughes, Hronek, Cole, Myers, and Soucy. Could he do more with a larger opportunity in Boston? We'll see, they're certainly paying him to do more so they're gonna hope so. 

 

I'm fine with the team as is, ideally we'd have Demko in net but these things happen. Just gotta work out some kinks, we'll probably see management look to upgrade the defense later in the season, we could definitely use another top 4D but it's tough to have everything at all positions under the cap system. 

its not OK to let Miller fight.

 

yes it happens,  but it’s not ok.

 

     This team needs more intimidating players .

 

Lose Miller to a broken hand and all lines weaken by 25 -30 percent.

 

you’ve disseminated this into a simple one game scenario, and that you’re not expecting more out of Mantha in his career than what’s in paper..  

  

    I seriously think management dropped the ball on Zadorov.

An early signing would have had him at the “home town” scenario you seem to be looking for .

    EP 40 ,.  He gave us a “hometown discount” ,. Right ?

 

2 assists for Zadorov last night , not flukes.

Edited October 11 by SilentSam

[Coconuts]

9 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

its not OK to let Miller fight.

 

yes it happens,  but it’s not ok.

 

     This team needs more intimidating players .

 

Lose Miller to a broken hand and all lines weaken by 25 -30 percent.

 

you’ve disseminated this into a simple one game scenario, and that you’re not expecting more out of Mantha in his career than what’s in paper..  

  

    I seriously think management dropped the ball on Zadorov.

An early signing would have had him at the “home town” scenario you seem to be looking for .

    EP 40 ,.  He gave us a “hometown discount” ,. Right ?

 

2 assists for Zadorov last night , not flukes.

 

Frankly, having other guys on the team who can take on that role probably isn't going to stop Miller from fighting if he wants to. He's got a track record of doing just that going back to his days in the USHL. 

 

https://www.hockeyfights.com/players/13708

 

For example, when we had Luke Schenn in 21-22 and 22-23 and Miller still fought once in 21-22 and four times in 22-23. Schenn's fought more than most guys around the league over the course of his career, with 90+ fights to his credit. 

 

I see a lot of reasons why Calgary and Mantha would both want to come out strong, like most other players and teams around the league. 

 

And maybe, again, it takes two to tango. If both sides had been willing to come together to get things done before the playoffs maybe it'd have gone differently. Shit happens. At the end of the day if he really wanted to be here, he'd still be here. He wanted the extra year, he took it, but nobody twisted his arm and made him do it. 

 

No, Pettersson didn't give us a discount. But let's be real, we've both spent lots of time both here and on CDC seeing what guys get paid, and most players, star or not, don't give significant discounts. Pettersson got close to what him and the Canucks probably thought was market value. Nylander was the likeliest comparable, he got his 11.5M deal in January, Pettersson got his 11.6M deal in March. 

 

We'll see how he does over a larger stretch, results ebb and flow.

[EdgarM]

36 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

its not OK to let Miller fight.

 

yes it happens,  but it’s not ok.

 

     This team needs more intimidating players .

 

Lose Miller to a broken hand and all lines weaken by 25 -30 percent.

 

you’ve disseminated this into a simple one game scenario, and that you’re not expecting more out of Mantha in his career than what’s in paper..  

  

    I seriously think management dropped the ball on Zadorov.

An early signing would have had him at the “home town” scenario you seem to be looking for .

    EP 40 ,.  He gave us a “hometown discount” ,. Right ?

 

2 assists for Zadorov last night , not flukes.

 

Many on here were pegging him as third line pairing defenseman. He is a top 4 guy in Boston, like I thought he would be. Wait until the playoffs come, i hope we don't meet Boston again. First we had to deal with Chara and now Big Z? 

We needed him here but we decided to go with Oscar Meyers and then Desharnais and Forbort. 

Edited October 11 by EdgarM

[EdgarM]

3 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Frankly, having other guys on the team who can take on that role probably isn't going to stop Miller from fighting if he wants to. He's got a track record of doing just that going back to his days in the USHL. 

 

https://www.hockeyfights.com/players/13708

 

For example, when we had Luke Schenn in 21-22 and 22-23 and Miller still fought once in 21-22 and four times in 22-23. Schenn's fought more than most guys around the league over the course of his career, with 90+ fights to his credit. 

 

I see a lot of reasons why Calgary and Mantha would both want to come out strong, like most other players and teams around the league. 

 

And maybe, again, it takes two to tango. If both sides had been willing to come together to get things done before the playoffs maybe it'd have gone differently. Shit happens. At the end of the day if he really wanted to be here, he'd still be here. He wanted the extra year, he took it, but nobody twisted his arm and made him do it. 

 

No, Pettersson didn't give us a discount. But let's be real, we've both spent lots of time both here and on CDC seeing what guys get paid, and most players, star or not, don't give significant discounts. Pettersson got close to what him and the Canucks probably thought was market value. Nylander was the likeliest comparable, he got his 11.5M deal in January, Pettersson got his 11.6M deal in March. 

 

We'll see how he does over a larger stretch, results ebb and flow.

 

Miller was trying to avoid Mantha most of the night, he finally got tired of it and obliged him. Zadorov is a deterent , plain and simple. Miller may or may not have fought but having a guy like Big Z on your team at least makes you think twice first.

If management really wanted Z they would have come to an agreement with him, they didn't see him as a priority. That was evident with the ice time he was given, even though he was playing great for us, especially in the playoffs. Myers was there priority for some reason.

You don't have to look any further then a few of our players who seem to have taken a bit of discounts, Demko, Hughes, Miller and I would also argue Hronek as well, as i think he could of commanded more on the open market. Petey was an over payment.

I don't knock the management that much , as I think for the most part, they are doing a great job. They are human though, and are prone to making a mistake or two.

[SilentSam]

29 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Frankly, having other guys on the team who can take on that role probably isn't going to stop Miller from fighting if he wants to. He's got a track record of doing just that going back to his days in the USHL. 

 

https://www.hockeyfights.com/players/13708

 

For example, when we had Luke Schenn in 21-22 and 22-23 and Miller still fought once in 21-22 and four times in 22-23. Schenn's fought more than most guys around the league over the course of his career, with 90+ fights to his credit. 

 

I see a lot of reasons why Calgary and Mantha would both want to come out strong, like most other players and teams around the league. 

 

And maybe, again, it takes two to tango. If both sides had been willing to come together to get things done before the playoffs maybe it'd have gone differently. Shit happens. At the end of the day if he really wanted to be here, he'd still be here. He wanted the extra year, he took it, but nobody twisted his arm and made him do it. 

 

No, Pettersson didn't give us a discount. But let's be real, we've both spent lots of time both here and on CDC seeing what guys get paid, and most players, star or not, don't give significant discounts. Pettersson got close to what him and the Canucks probably thought was market value. Nylander was the likeliest comparable, he got his 11.5M deal in January, Pettersson got his 11.6M deal in March. 

 

We'll see how he does over a larger stretch, results ebb and flow.

all I’m saying is , Miller does not need to fight ..   

 We need intimidating HOCKEY players to ward that scenario away , and or step in to show that .

     Zadorov was the perfect beast / hockey player..    

 

     and yes , earned a spot in the top 4 dmen.

   
              Myers should not have been signed before Zadorov.

    Zadorov is 3 times the D man in every aspect.

 

   

[EdgarM]

15 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

all I’m saying is , Miller does not need to fight ..   

 We need intimidating HOCKEY players to ward that scenario away , and or step in to show that .

     Zadorov was the perfect beast / hockey player..    

 

     and yes , earned a spot in the top 4 dmen.

   
              Myers should not have been signed before Zadorov.

    Zadorov is 3 times the D man in every aspect.

 

   

 

Just think.........for what we paid for Myers and Desharnais..........we could have had a quality top 4 dman which could have been Big Z. Like I said, we went shopping in the "Bargain Bin" for some reason.

Not only that, but we already had Juulsen who could do just as good a job as those two.

Edited October 11 by EdgarM

[-dlc-]

41 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

 

Miller was trying to avoid Mantha most of the night, he finally got tired of it and obliged him. Zadorov is a deterent , plain and simple. Miller may or may not have fought but having a guy like Big Z on your team at least makes you think twice first.

If management really wanted Z they would have come to an agreement with him, they didn't see him as a priority. That was evident with the ice time he was given, even though he was playing great for us, especially in the playoffs. Myers was there priority for some reason.

You don't have to look any further then a few of our players who seem to have taken a bit of discounts, Demko, Hughes, Miller and I would also argue Hronek as well, as i think he could of commanded more on the open market. Petey was an over payment.

I don't knock the management that much , as I think for the most part, they are doing a great job. They are human though, and are prone to making a mistake or two.

The bottom line is players control their destiny and, as much as the team tried, they couldn't get it nailed down with Zadorov. He put himself ahead of the team when deciding. That's what it boils down to and on him. I don't blame him, but I'm also not mourning the loss of him. It's a big whatever. We can't be held hostage by players when there are others to pay as well.

 

And Myers has become a big part of this team...the chemistry and "brotherhood" matter more than individual egos. He took a good discount to stay here and that speaks volumes. You want players who want to be here, on this team.When Zadorov toyed with the media about how much he was worth, it was a game for him. But he knew he was going for the $$.

The Flames were gunning for Miller from puck drop....obviously knew he'd been nursing something and then the hit on Rooney just escalated things. Calgary...it's what they do. They goon it up and refs get tired of giving them penalties and back off. 

 

Hate that team.

 

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

 

Just think.........for what we paid for Myers and Desharnais..........we could have had a quality top 4 dman which could have been Big Z. Like I said, we went shopping in the "Bargain Bin" for some reason.

 

Myers has been really decent under Tocc tho, and at 3 mil is good value finally.

[EdgarM]

2 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

The bottom line is players control their destiny and, as much as the team tried, they couldn't get it nailed down with Zadorov. He put himself ahead of the team when deciding. That's what it boils down to and on him. I don't blame him, but I'm also not mourning the loss of him. It's a big whatever. We can't be held hostage by players when there are others to pay as well.

The Flames were gunning for Miller from puck drop....obviously knew he'd been nursing something and then the hit on Rooney just escalated things. Calgary...it's what they do. They goon it up and refs get tired of giving them penalties and back off. 

 

Hate that team.

 

 

I don't blame Zadorov, Petey held out, and even our beloved Edler went for more money and played elsewhere. Zadorov stated right when he got here he liked it here and wanted to stay. Then by looking what he got from Boston, it didn't seem like he was asking for anything outrageous. 

I think they thought that they could get the same out Myers instead, which I think is a mistake IMO. 

Its not a big what ever for me because he would have made our team stronger and more competitive with him, but instead, we got Desharnais and Myers. 

They did try to go after Miller after the hit because they thought it was a dirty hit. They tried a few times and Miller just skated away before he finally decided to oblige Mantha. 

No one can convince a few of us here that Zadorov could not have made our team more competitive and better then what we currently have. 

[EdgarM]

10 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Myers has been really decent under Tocc tho, and at 3 mil is good value finally.

 

The soon to be 35 year old has been "chaos giraffe" for most of his stint with us and surprisingly during his contract year he plays pretty good. We have him in our top 4 ! We will see if that "good value" holds up for the life of his contract. 

[SilentSam]

19 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

 

Just think.........for what we paid for Myers and Desharnais..........we could have had a quality top 4 dman which could have been Big Z. Like I said, we went shopping in the "Bargain Bin" for some reason.

Not only that, but we already had Juulsen who could do just as good a job as those two.

.. and as that scenario cascaded,.  Perhaps an opportunity to go after P Broberg who was left unsigned by EDM..  and an offer sheet that had no repercussions on it going back .

   the other opportunity would be Zadorov as mentor to D Pettersson and others coming up.

 

           All upsides were overlooked in his value.,  players like him are rare ..

    which leaves us without a player like him again.

[Hairy Kneel]

21 hours ago, AlwaysACanuckFan said:

In which case he basically said they'll work on and gotta make smarter plays. Maybe our bodies need to block some of those long shots. 

I'm sure they'll figure things out 

Good question 

Who are our best shot blockers now?

[Mc1laren]

On 10/11/2024 at 1:42 AM, Drakrami said:

lol. So arrogant? Joke's on you in 12-24 months, Pettersson is not trending well at all. 100 points and what does it mean? We made the playoffs once in 4 years. That's enough to fill your wow ego for a while. Rational people were commenting on Pettersson's troubling play and lack of domination at the game specifically, but I guess there's always a Homer who spontaneously shouts out 100 POINTS!! without giving much thought about what is being discussed. 

 

 

So what would you do with a player your organization drafted that put up 102 and 89 points in his last 2 seasons whilst being a 30 goal scorer his last 3 seasons. Whilst accomplishing all this he played one of the better two way games in the league and received selke votes. If it were up to you we probably would have traded him for Martin Necas. 

He’s struggled, he’ll be back back to his 100 point selke form soon enough.
 

arrogant? Yea maybe should stoping taking stupid pills and washing it down with the haterade. Gtfoh