[PGT] Vancouver Canucks @ Tampa Bay Lightning Oct 15

[Coconuts]

35 minutes ago, J-23 said:

 

At the end of the day the Pacific is not a strong division, especially when compared to other divisions.

 

So it's not the end of the world if we have a slow start to the season but it's not fun or ideal. 

 

The only teams having success thus far are Calgary, Seattle, and Vegas, LA and Edmonton have a win each 

 

LA's missing Doughty big time 

 

The only real threat of a team to pull away early right now is Vegas, which still leaves two other divisional spots and a lot of runway 

 

We have a game in hand on most of the division, Calgary probably won't sustain this winning pace

 

Yeah, folks can be concerned, but we're quite a ways off from having dug ourselves a significant hole at this point 

Edited Wednesday at 10:00 PM by Coconuts

[Taphouse Canuck]

In many ways I was not too disheartened by the losses to CGY and PHI because we took the game to OT and with some better luck could have won either. They never once looked like winning the TB game, they had some good shifts but the Bolts had the answer to everything. The power plays were totally ineffective and we're more momentum sapping than boosting.

 

We look like a team that can't play at high speed, all our moves are looking hesitant. They dwell on the puck and a good team like Tampa just checks them off it

 

I can't see us beating FLA unless there are some radical changes in the way we play. I watched some of the Cats game against the Bruins and they were playing hard like it was the playoffs already. We're still playing like it's pre-season. Add to that they have Bob and it doesn't look good for our first W

[Coconuts]

And, I mean, I'm more than willing to criticize the team when it's warranted, but it's too early to be hitting the panic button 

[tas]

48 minutes ago, RWJC said:

Doesnt diminish that he’s still a PPG player, is still an offensive threat and commands attention from the opposition, and that he’s actually become very defensively responsible.

32 points in his last 50 games (including postseason) by my count. 

 

0.6 ppg is acceptable for 11.6 schmil in your book?

Edited Wednesday at 10:05 PM by tas

[tas]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

And, I mean, I'm more than willing to criticize the team when it's warranted, but it's too early to be hitting the panic button 

it's never the right time to panic, panic is senseless. however, the ways that they've been playing, completely counter to their staples, is concerning. 

 

the losses don't bother me at all. the process bothers me a lot. 

[Hairy Kneel]

We're missing Cole and Zadorov big time. Not the best d but it did have chemistry. 

Edited Wednesday at 10:07 PM by Hairy Kneel

[AnthonyG]

2 minutes ago, tas said:

32 points in his last 50 games (including postseason) by my count. 

 

0.6 ppg is acceptable for 11.6 schmil in your book?

Health

linemates

zone distribution 

PK

TOI

 all factor in to offence or lack thereof  

[Coconuts]

Just now, tas said:

it's never the right time to panic, panic is senseless. however, the ways that they've been playing, completely counter to their staples, is concerning. 

 

the losses don't bother me at all. the process bothers me a lot. 

 

As I said in the previous post, sure, there are reasons for folks to be concerned

 

But it's been three games

[tas]

Just now, Coconuts said:

 

As I said in the previous post, sure, there are reasons for folks to be concerned

 

But it's been three games

3 games where this group's supposed identity has been nowhere in sight. 

[Coconuts]

Just now, tas said:

3 games where this group's supposed identity has been nowhere in sight. 

 

I suppose it's a good thing the regular season features 82 of them then 

[The Duke]

People always forget how ludicrously chaotic the NHL regular season is.  Top teams look like dog crap one period then turn it on the next.   Bottom teams look elite for a game and go back to tanking. 

 

The season Bruce got fired was the worst I’ve ever seen a Canucks team play.  Worse than Willie D years and AHL rosters.  Worse than the Canadian-division Benning year. Yeah, worse than the Messier era.  That team was dog shit terrible. 
 

Then, Tocchet comes in and poof it all turns around again. Trying to draw some deep conclusions based off a year where we won a playoff round and this 0-2-1 start is just hilarious.  Or about a player coming off an 89 point campaign.
 

By all means discuss and have an opinion - that’s what we’re all here for. And just maybe this team is going nowhere.  But to say it with any confidence?
 

Camman.

Edited Wednesday at 10:11 PM by The Duke

[Rick_theRyper]

3 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

Well if you look at it this way. We moved a near selke calibre consistent 30 goal scoring 2way C for a dman and a pick, then sold at rockbottom on Kuzmenko and picks to get a 2C again.... pretty bassackwards if you ask me. Should kept Horvat and our picks and prospects and sold Kuzmenko who clearly has skating deficiencies at peak value and got our dman and prospect in return. 

This is fucking piss poor asset management.

Yeah I never understood selling horvat to pay through the nose for Lindholm to let him walk. But Zadorov is the one thats hurting us the most IMO, our bottom pairing is a weak as hell, would have been better off letting Juulsen play and not signing Heinen and Desharnais and keeping Gen Zad, he was right there with Garland and Miller with dragging the guys back into the fight. Let alone the skill difference. Even at his off side hes way better than Des and Forbort combined 

[LillStrimma]

50 minutes ago, Rekker said:

I believe EP's best success has come along side JT. Same with Brock. JT is just that good, he really is. I would reunite the lotto line and play the crap out of them next game. 

Not at all, as a rookie he had Brock beside him, almost a ppg player instantly.

At the PP many points come from the triangle of Hughes Miller and Boeser wich leaves Petey on the outside.

If I’m not mistaken Peteys best season he was one of the best in NHL 5v5 and that was when he was lined up with Kuz first season. Not with Miller. 

[tas]

4 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

I suppose it's a good thing the regular season features 82 of them then 

sure. and I'll be happy to see them flip the switch. but for a group to come out and swear up and down all summer long that they weren't going to regress, they were determined to prove that last year wasn't a one off, to see them come out and get consistently outskated, outsmarted, out worked and outbattled, it's pretty disheartening for a fanbase that was worried this exact thing might happen. 

[AnthonyG]

2 minutes ago, Rick_theRyper said:

Yeah I never understood selling horvat to pay through the nose for Lindholm to let him walk. But Zadorov is the one thats hurting us the most IMO, our bottom pairing is a weak as hell, would have been better off letting Juulsen play and not signing Heinen and Desharnais and keeping Gen Zad, he was right there with Garland and Miller with dragging the guys back into the fight. Let alone the skill difference. Even at his off side hes way better than Des and Forbort combined 

Cole is the biggest loss IMO.

he was an absolute fucking animal in the Dzone. Unfortunately he takes a lot of dislike and seems easily dismissed by fans because of some bad bounces in the post season.

[tas]

12 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

We're missing Cole and Zadorov big time. Not the best d but it did have chemistry. 

cole made a hugely underappreciated impact as a sort of playing coach. he consistently applied tocc's message and held his teammates accountable. 

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, tas said:

sure. and I'll be happy to see them flip the switch. but for a group to come out and swear up and down all summer long that they weren't going to regress, they were determined to prove that last year wasn't a one off, to see them come out and get consistently outskated, outsmarted, out worked and outbattled, it's pretty disheartening for a fanbase that was worried this exact thing might happen. 

 

And that's absolutely fair. 

 

Some of it's on them, it is, some of it's not. The bar was raised last season, teams aren't overlooking the Canucks right now, even if they haven't played to expectations. That's part of what comes with a team showing they can be more than just competitive. 

 

Calgary game, we took the pedal off the gas and were shown up by a Calgary team that likely very much wants to show they won't pushovers.

 

Philly, Philly played pretty well overall, looked like a plucky Torts coached team. These things happen. 

 

Tampa, Vasi and Tampa's top end talent were the difference. Still not terribly far removed from back to back cups, still have elite talent at all positions even if Hedman is aging, losses to that sort of team are gonna happen sometimes. 

 

If we get rolled over by a Florida team missing both Barkov and Tkachuk? Yeah, I'll be a bit more concerned. 

[Rick_theRyper]

4 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Cole is the biggest loss IMO.

he was an absolute fucking animal in the Dzone. Unfortunately he takes a lot of dislike and seems easily dismissed by fans because of some bad bounces in the post season.

Yeah he was good all season till a few games in post for sure. Him and Z are way better than Forbort and Des

[JayDangles]

18 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

But it happens. Players hit slumps and yes, Petey's in one. For one reason or another (irrelevant, really).

 

But people almost seem angry over it. Like somehow his contract gives us some kind of right to hate on him. Trash him.

 

He's our player. He's done some really good stuff and is having trouble finding his game right now. He's not floating...he's hitting. He's trying. 

 

So maybe stats are part of the problem because that's what people are looking at - the goals he's not scoring.

 

He's not without criticism, sure. But my God, it's all some people are focused on these days. 

 

Scapegoat just changes numbers it seems.

Well said Deb. 

I do admire your ability to get involved in the heated debates and stay mostly diplomatic.

For me the thing that bothers me is that he JUST signed his very lucrative very long contract and has been in a slump ever since. The timing is bad, and it looks bad on him.

I wonder how long fans are going to be able to keep giving him support. When does a slump turn into a bad signing? When does a slump become full fledged reality? 

How long are fans supposed to be ok with this? 

It's not just 3 games, or a playoff round, it's half a season now, with lots of rest time in between

[tas]

4 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

And that's absolutely fair. 

 

Some of it's on them, it is, some of it's not. The bar was raised last season, teams aren't overlooking the Canucks right now, even if they haven't played to expectations. That's part of what comes with a team showing they can be more than just competitive. 

 

Calgary game, we took the pedal off the gas and were shown up by a Calgary team that likely very much wants to show they won't pushovers.

 

Philly, Philly played pretty well overall, looked like a plucky Torts coached team. These things happen. 

 

Tampa, Vasi and Tampa's top end talent were the difference. Still not terribly far removed from back to back cups, still have elite talent at all positions even if Hedman is aging, losses to that sort of team are gonna happen sometimes. 

 

If we get rolled over by a Florida team missing both Barkov and Tkachuk? Yeah, I'll be a bit more concerned. 

it's really not about the other teams. the canucks themselves have done none of the things that made them successful last year. 

[XxNaslundxX]

10 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Cole is the biggest loss IMO.

he was an absolute fucking animal in the Dzone. Unfortunately he takes a lot of dislike and seems easily dismissed by fans because of some bad bounces in the post season.

I totally agree that he was solid 3rd pair guy in the regular season. I just think those bad bounces in the playoffs were mega bad and cost us, like the puck went in off of his head. I admit i was furious and didnt want him back. However in hindsight, I think cole is quite a bit better defensively then forbort/juuls. 

[filthy animal]

1 hour ago, The Duke said:

What’s the conclusion here?  That he’s done?  You don’t think that’s just a little over dramatic?

 

The context is that the whole team has looked bad for large stretches and one of his wingers, Sprong, has already been banished. If the team gets rolling and Petey is still stinking up the joint I’ll be a lot more worried.  He’s a part of it, but he’s also surrounded by it.

 

Nobody is saying is done but hes been bad since Feb. Thats an awful a lot of time to be terrible considering hes supposed to be one of the main cogs of the team

 

Again all i hear is just excuses

[stawns]

2 hours ago, GrammaInTheTub said:

To be clear: I haven’t spoken any “truth” beyond certain objective undeniable facts - what I have posted is criticism of your assessment. Burden of proof is on you my friend and I’m just poking holes.

 

Well, the burden of proof is well established.  Without drmko covering the warts, they are a very underwhelming team.  The whole second half and even the success of their playoffs, have shown that continually get outworked and outplayed.  

Edited Wednesday at 10:49 PM by stawns

[RWJC]

36 minutes ago, tas said:

32 points in his last 50 games (including postseason) by my count. 

 

0.6 ppg is acceptable for 11.6 schmil in your book?

No it’s not, that’s why I was making my previous points. But to treat the situation as though he’s completely failing this team isn’t acceptable either. He’s struggling and he needs to turn it around, however that occurs. The majority of it is on him, the other aspect is for the org to insulate him effectively until he makes his way back to previous form. Can’t say that it’s been a steady or highly skilled linemate situation for him to build on, but at the same time he’s arguably not made effective the players he’s been given to play with and that’s on him to make most of. 

[PeteyBoeser]

I think giving up on Kuz was the mistake. Lindholm may have helped in the short run but in the long run should’ve kept Kuz. Paid way too much for a rental. Petey fell almost as soon as Kuz was gone.