Could Bedard be equal or better than McDavid or Crosby?

[Ballisticsports]

I always thought generational that you had to stand out from among your peers, and I don't see Bedard doing that for quite some time, if ever (I even heard many saying Celebrini would be the better of those 2)

[Gnarcore]

I can tell you this...that snap shot of his is maybe the best since Sakic. 

[Drakrami]

8 hours ago, Blue said:

 

Crosby topped out in his 2nd year with 120 points. He makes it up with consistency and the cups I guess. And being a salt of the earth guy. I am just saying, some could argue that Crosby didn't end up with the peaks expected. 

 

McDavid needs to get some team results to go with his hardware. To me, he is more of a rush player than Crosby or Bedard. (and yes, I believe he's in their league right now. His junior numbers put him there. Higher PPG than McDavid on worse teams, broke some of Lindross's jr records)

Crosby/McDavid dominated the league when they played. Bedard has not done that yet. 

[Elias Pettersson]

8 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Top 5 all time?  I don't know.  I would say top 10 probably.  I have him behind Gretzky, Orr and Lemieux for sure and then we have to start talking about Mr. Hockey, the Rocket, Coffey, Bourque, Denis Potvin, Beliveau, Bobby Hull, Lays Chips Bald Dude, Sawchuk, Plante, Roy, etc.

 

 

I've have Jagr as #5 on my list right now.  Wouldn't put Crosby ahead of him no matter how many points he gets.  Jagr was just below Lemieux in talent in his prime.  Could dominate a game all by himself.  I've never seen that with Crosby.

 

Don't think McDavid will ever be ahead of Jagr unless he starts winning some cups...

[rmok]

8 hours ago, Jess said:

Sure, I wouldn't rule it out, but honestly, that ceiling is bonkers. IMO Crosby is knocking on the top 5 all-time and I wouldn't be surprised if McDavid passes him by the time his career is done. McDavid could become the first name to be mentioned in the same breath as Gretzky, Orr, and Lemieux, depending on how his career goes for the rest of it.

 

That's a pretty damn high bar to reach. Still, I never like to place hard ceilings on guys who seem this good, so I'll say it's possible at least.

Going to be tough to be in Gretzky and Lemieux territory without even 1 cup... and McDavid is NEVER winning the cup. 

[-Buzzsaw-]

Another nod to Howe:

 

In 1968/69, at age 40, and playing on a poor Detroit team which finished out of the playoffs, (in the NHL, not WHL) he scored 44 goals and 103 points behind Esposito, (126 points) and Hull. (107 pts)

 

Can you name anyone else at that age who was that competitive ?

[Allegend]

I think Howe finshed in the top 5 scorers for 20 straight seasons. He should be considered top 5 of all time.

[Blue]

2 hours ago, flat land fish said:

What i is was getting at as a smaller center/winger he's not going to be  a barkov/kopitar/Crosby type role.  His role would be o zone driver but will need the other two way guys surrounding him.  Guy projects to be top 20 player in league and probably perrenial top 10 scorer.  Scoring and winning are two different things.

 

Crosby is 5 foot 11. Bedard is 5 foot 10 and can still grow a little till as he tops out at age 21.

[Blue]

1 hour ago, Ballisticsports said:

I always thought generational that you had to stand out from among your peers, and I don't see Bedard doing that for quite some time, if ever (I even heard many saying Celebrini would be the better of those 2)

So beating Gretzky, Lindros, Crosby and McDavids junior records stands for nothing. Got it. He played on the most tanked out team in recent memory that had injuries throughout. The top line center was Jason Dickenson and one of the top pairing D men were Jayson Megna. 

 

Remember, these are receipts. 

 

 

[Blue]

5 hours ago, MatchesMalone said:

 

But stylistically, I would compare Bedard with The Great One. Power forwards like Lemieux or Ovechkin, or speedsters like McDavid or Bure love to carry the puck and make plays with it. Crosby was about half and half - making plays with and without the puck. Gretzky and Bedard are maybe the best I've ever seen making plays and controlling offense off of the puck. They're reading the entire ice and planning out plays so many steps in advance that they can get the puck on their stick a couple times in a rush or a cycle but never hold it for more than a second and create a goal.

I agree that Bedard is a half and half player. There's even some Kucherov in him as he slows things down and scans the ice. 

 

But as you'll see in the thread, for whatever reason, a lot of people have lost the plot on Bedard. He has become underrated. 

[Jess]

14 minutes ago, Blue said:

I agree that Bedard is a half and half player. There's even some Kucherov in him as he slows things down and scans the ice. 

 

But as you'll see in the thread, for whatever reason, a lot of people have lost the plot on Bedard. He has become underrated. 

 

I'm pumped for him. I predicted he'd score 100 points this year.

[Ballisticsports]

48 minutes ago, Blue said:

So beating Gretzky, Lindros, Crosby and McDavids junior records stands for nothing. Got it. He played on the most tanked out team in recent memory that had injuries throughout. The top line center was Jason Dickenson and one of the top pairing D men were Jayson Megna. 

 

Remember, these are receipts. 

 

 

Got It?

Junior record stands for nothing?

 

I thought the question was about playing in the NHL? 

How many players have been excelled in junior and accomplished little in the NHL? 

I don't recall anyone saying he is a failure, but as far as generational, he isn't above his peers playing in the NHL

 

I never responded to his ceiling, I think he wouldn't have been picked where he was, if the ceiling wasn't high

He may have been generational in Junior, but he isn't in the NHL (as of yet)

[GrammaInTheTub]

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

Dash 50 already. Bedard is chasing Dahlin for the Green Jacket king. Watch him play. Just like Dahlin he cheats the game in hopes of getting points. He will lead loser teams. 

You two feel like when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object in this space

[GrammaInTheTub]

1 hour ago, Blue said:

I agree that Bedard is a half and half player. There's even some Kucherov in him as he slows things down and scans the ice. 

 

But as you'll see in the thread, for whatever reason, a lot of people have lost the plot on Bedard. He has become underrated. 

I don’t agree with a lot of what you’ve posted but I think the Kuch is akin to Ovi and Kane and perhaps a little more representative of the modern player and I agree 

[wai_lai416]

i dont think crosby or mcdavid started their career on a team as bad as the chicago in terms of talent.. pittsburgh still have some decent vets on their team and mcdavid had god knows how many 1st rounder or 1st overall picks on the team when he started.. i can't name 1 player on that chicago's team other than jason dickenson?

[Blue]

6 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

i dont think crosby or mcdavid started their career on a team as bad as the chicago in terms of talent.. pittsburgh still have some decent vets on their team and mcdavid had god knows how many 1st rounder or 1st overall picks on the team when he started.. i can't name 1 player on that chicago's team other than jason dickenson?

 

This was when Bedard was also injured 

 

https://x.com/CRoumeliotis/status/1744080328099004522

[Drakrami]

7 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

i dont think crosby or mcdavid started their career on a team as bad as the chicago in terms of talent.. pittsburgh still have some decent vets on their team and mcdavid had god knows how many 1st rounder or 1st overall picks on the team when he started.. i can't name 1 player on that chicago's team other than jason dickenson?

Crosby had almost doubled the next guy on his team in points in his first season lol. Crosby 102 points, Gonchar 58 points. It's true Malkin arrived the next year, but it just shows how good Crosby was. Bedard's also got solid forward lines now with Taylor Hall, Teravainen, Bertuzzi.

[Blue]

6 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

Crosby had almost doubled the next guy on his team in points in his first season lol. Crosby 102 points, Gonchar 58 points. It's true Malkin arrived the next year, but it just shows how good Crosby was. Bedard's also got solid forward lines now with Taylor Hall, Teravainen, Bertuzzi.

Crosby played with Lemeuix 

 

It looks like the Hawks will be a bit better this year 

Edited 3 hours ago by Blue

[Drakrami]

18 minutes ago, Blue said:

Crosby played with Lemeuix 

 

It looks like the Hawks will be a bit better this year 

Im sure those 22 games Lemieux played helped a lot. This is the Penguins team by highest stats before Crosby's first season lol. 

 

	Regular Season						Playoffs					Vitals
#	Player Name	Pos.	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	Birthplace	Age
32	Dick Tarnstrom	D	80	16	36	52	38	-37	--	--	--	--	--	Sweden: Sundbyberg	28
95	Alexei Morozov	R	75	16	34	50	24	-24	--	--	--	--	--	Russia: Moscow	26
12	Ryan Malone	F	81	22	21	43	64	-23	--	--	--	--	--	PA: Pittsburgh	23
14	Milan Kraft	C	66	19	21	40	18	-22	--	--	--	--	--	Czech Rep.: Plzen	23
9	Rico Fata	R	73	16	18	34	54	-46	--	--	--	--	--	ONT: Sault Ste. Marie	23
71	Konstantin Koltsov	R	82	9	20	29	30	-30	--	--	--	--	--	Belarus: Minsk	22
55	Richard Jackman 1	D	25	7	17	24	14	-5	--	--	--	--	--	ONT: Toronto	25
43	Tomas Surovy	L	47	11	12	23	16	-8	--	--	--	--	--	Slovakia: Banska Bystrica	21

 

 

[AnthonyG]

20 hours ago, Jess said:

Sure, I wouldn't rule it out, but honestly, that ceiling is bonkers. IMO Crosby is knocking on the top 5 all-time and I wouldn't be surprised if McDavid passes him by the time his career is done. McDavid could become the first name to be mentioned in the same breath as Gretzky, Orr, and Lemieux, depending on how his career goes for the rest of it.

 

That's a pretty damn high bar to reach. Still, I never like to place hard ceilings on guys who seem this good, so I'll say it's possible at least.

imo Crosby is today's modern day Gretzky, insane IQ, vision,playmaking and ability to score at a high rate. McDavid is Bure2.0 insane skill and speed.

Bedard seems more like Patrick Kane if anything, 

[Elias Pettersson]

10 hours ago, Blue said:

So beating Gretzky, Lindros, Crosby and McDavids junior records stands for nothing. Got it. He played on the most tanked out team in recent memory that had injuries throughout. The top line center was Jason Dickenson and one of the top pairing D men were Jayson Megna. 

 

Remember, these are receipts. 

 

 

 

Mario Lemieux had 184 points as a 17-year-old.  Gretzky had 182 points as a 16-year-old.  Crosby had 168 points as a 17-year-old.  Eric Lindros had 149 points as a 17-year-old.  Bedard had 143 points as a 17-year-old.  Which records did Bedard break in regard to Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby and Lindros?

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Blue said:

Crosby played with Lemeuix 

 

It looks like the Hawks will be a bit better this year 

 

Lemieux was 40 years old and played less than a half a season with Crosby.  Are you trying to insinuate that Crosby played with a prime Lemieux?

[DrJockitch]

15 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Mario Lemieux had 184 points as a 17-year-old.  Gretzky had 182 points as a 16-year-old.  Crosby had 168 points as a 17-year-old.  Eric Lindros had 149 points as a 17-year-old.  Bedard had 143 points as a 17-year-old.  Which records did Bedard break in regard to Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby and Lindros?

I think he was referring to the junior WC. 

[Elias Pettersson]

17 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

imo Crosby is today's modern day Gretzky, insane IQ, vision,playmaking and ability to score at a high rate. McDavid is Bure2.0 insane skill and speed.

Bedard seems more like Patrick Kane if anything, 

 

Crosby had 120 points in his second year in the NHL.  He got his concussions soon after which slowed him down greatly.  Without that I think he would have put up even more points in subsequent years.  Compare that to McDavid, who took until his 7th year in the NHL to break 120 points.  Interesting enough, McDavid won the scoring title in his second year with 100 points, and Crosby finished 2nd with 89 points playing 7 less games.  Would have been really close that year if Crosby played all 82 games like McDavid.  And Crosby was 10 years older.

 

Crosby has easily had a better career than McDavid.  Also, McDavid is already slowing down.  He didn't win any regular season trophies last season at his prime age of 27, has won zero cups so far and this year he's not even in the top 30 in scoring right now.  Compare that to Crosby who won 3 cups by age 29, two Conn Smythe trophies and still broke 100 points at age 31.

 

Crosby was definitely a mini Gretzky, he did not have the speed or shot, similar to Gretzky, but had an enormous IQ level.  McDavid does not have the same IQ as Gretzky or Crosby, he goes into the zone with full speed and lots of times loses the puck because of it.  Complete opposite of how Gretzky and Crosby played the game.  McDavid is a clone to Bure but a better playmaker.  So those are good examples actually.

 

I have the greatest players ever as Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Howe and Jagr in that order.  I would put Crosby at 6 or 7 on my list.  Not sure where McDavid will eventually fall, but he is definitely not beating any of those guys if he never wins a cup...

[Elias Pettersson]

9 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

I think he was referring to the junior WC. 

 

So one tournament and he's breaking Gretzky records?  Bedard isn't even in the same stratosphere as Gretzky, Lemieux and Orr...