[Signing] Juolevi signs with Timrå

[tas]

1 minute ago, AnthonyG said:

Coming out with nothing or coming out with a franchise goalie in the 2nd… I can deal with the 1st round losses even though Virtanen did carve out some value if we got to a point of being able to trade him before his allegations derailed his future.

McCann was a hit but clearly there was an issue when you see those postage stamps along the way and his ever decreasing value up until his last stop.

 

Benning found more 2nd rounders than Gillis found picks period

 

virtanen was worthless, a buyout regardless of the allegations. he is a terrible hockey player. mccann was a miss, it's been mentioned many times that he needed those wake up calls to become the player he is. 

 

it's not a competition between regimes, it's a consistent organizational failure stretching back virtually to its inception. jury is very much still out on the current one, too. 

[AnthonyG]

35 minutes ago, tas said:

 jury is very much still out on the current one, too. 

 

dont get your hopes up….

[Eddie]

21 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Man....people need to go back and look at 2008 through 2018 and see what happened to all those top 10 picks.  A significant number of them didn't do anything or never lived up to their draft status.

 

If we drafted players in the top 10 that never became more than 3rd or 4th line players or 5-6 defencemen this fan base would be screaming just as loudly

 

Bogosian 3rd?

Filatov 6th OA?

 

L Schenn 5th?

Scott Glennie 8th

Jared Cowen 9th

 

Gudbranson 3rd

Connolly 6th

Burmistrov 8th

MacIlrath 10th

 

Larsson 4th

 

Yakupov 1

Murray 2

Galchenyuk 3

Reinhardt 4

Pouliot 8

Koekkoek 10

(^^^ That's all 2012)

 

Drouin 3rd

Jones 4th

Dal Colle 5th

Virtanen 6th

Fleury 7th

Ritchie 10th

 

Puljujarvi 4

Juolevi 5

Nylander 8

 

Patrick 2

Glass 6

Andersson 7

Middlestadt 8

 

Hayton 5

Zadina 6

Kravstov 9

 

Like....these are all essentially busts based on their draft positions vs the careers they've had up until this point.  We flamed out on 2 in hort order and that sucks but when you look at that decade and who was drafting where and for how long it could have been so much worse.

 

All that aside, good luck OJ.  Hope you figure it out over there.

 

 

Yeah that really puts things in perspective on how top 10 picks are far from a home run. 2012/13 were brutal years for top 10 picks.

 

To not jump on the hind sight warriors bandwagon i think O.J was always gonna be a top 10 pick in that draft, and probably less of reach than Willander was this year. 

Just sucks he didn't work out - specially with Tkachuk going one spot later to the Flames as well, a player a lot of people wanted - and would have set the club on a totally different trajectory for the years since - tho that Trajectory may not have included drafting Petey and Certainly wouldn't have drafted Hughes. 

[Dizzle]

10 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

Erhoff went for a 4th… so White got us nothing essentially.

Hodgson became Kassian….

 

even with acquiring Erhoff, it still impacted the future quite heavily. We basically set fire to a 1st round pick, lost him for nothing…gained a 4th

I’m not sure what you’re saying about Erhoff and the 4th? The trade was White and Rahimi for Lukowich and Hoff I believe? 
 

Either way, Patrick White wasn’t a great pick, but it was salvaged… that trade was a huge win for the team. 
 

I’d argue Hodgson was the opposite. Great pick that was torpedoed. 

[AnthonyG]

1 minute ago, Dizzle said:

I’m not sure what you’re saying about Erhoff and the 4th? The trade was White and Rahimi for Lukowich and Hoff I believe? 
 

Either way, Patrick White wasn’t a great pick, but it was salvaged… that trade was a huge win for the team. 
 

I’d argue Hodgson was the opposite. Great pick that was torpedoed. 

We gave up all that for Erhoff and we couldnt re-sign him so we traded his rights for a 4th. Basically took a 1st and traded it for a 4th.

 

Hodgson was moved for Kassian who hadnt proved a single thing.

[Dizzle]

Just now, AnthonyG said:

We gave up all that for Erhoff and we couldnt re-sign him so we traded his rights for a 4th. Basically took a 1st and traded it for a 4th.

 

Hodgson was moved for Kassian who hadnt proved a single thing.

Agree on Hodgson. 
 

Erhoff was a huge part of the teams success during the two years he was here. You can’t discount that in the value. There’s no way he was a case of, ‘basically trading a 1st for a 4th.’  That’s not even remotely accurate. 
 

that being said… I’ll still agree that White wasn’t a great pick (at all). 

[canuck73_3]

54 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

We gave up all that for Erhoff and we couldnt re-sign him so we traded his rights for a 4th. Basically took a 1st and traded it for a 4th.

 

Hodgson was moved for Kassian who hadnt proved a single thing.

 

You can't move the goal posts like that when he played 159 games as a Canuck. 

[Forzatikare]

11 hours ago, JeremyCuddles said:

Do they still have Dahlen? I hope they keep nabbing our failed prospects. Maybe Lind will make his way there after his contract is up. I'd play in Sweden, saying that unironically actually. They have some really cute girls.

Yes, Dahlen is still here, aswell as EPs older brother EP

[WSAcanuck]

9 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

Coming out with nothing or coming out with a franchise goalie in the 2nd… I can deal with the 1st round losses even though Virtanen did carve out some value if we got to a point of being able to trade him before his allegations derailed his future.

McCann was a hit but clearly there was an issue when you see those postage stamps along the way and his ever decreasing value up until his last stop.

 

Benning found more 2nd rounders than Gillis found picks period

The problem is Benning and Gillis were both overall garbage at drafting. 

[AnthonyG]

5 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

 

You can't move the goal posts like that when he played 159 games as a Canuck. 

Where’d that lead us? Did that extend our window to win? Did we gain anything of value? Or did we let one of our top 4 dmen, PP specialist go for a 4th? Lol

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, AnthonyG said:

Where’d that lead us? Did that extend our window to win? Did we gain anything of value? Or did we let one of our top 4 dmen, PP specialist go for a 4th? Lol

It lead us within 1 win of a cup… 

 

And when they have no contract they are virtually worthless so getting a 4th was an actual win.

 

The Islanders gave up a 4th and he didn’t even sign there… 

[canuck73_3]

4 minutes ago, WSAcanuck said:

The problem is Benning and Gillis were both overall garbage at drafting. 

Benning was hit or miss not garbage. Can’t be called garbage at drafting when you draft Demko, Hughes, Pettersson, Höglander, etc Podkolzin after a great start is a question mark right now. 

[iinatcc]

2 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Benning was hit or miss not garbage. Can’t be called garbage at drafting when you draft Demko, Hughes, Pettersson, Höglander, etc Podkolzin after a great start is a question mark right now. 

 

Hoglander hasn't really proven anything. 

If Demko, Hughes, Petterson is all you have to show for 8 years worth of drafting, that's quite bad. 

Dallas got Heiskanen, Robertson, and Jake Oettinger all in one year. 

 

And dare I say in terms of talent level Heiskanen, Robertson, and Jake Oettinger matches pretty close to Demko, Hughes, and Petterson. 

 

[canuck73_3]

3 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

 

Hoglander hasn't really proven anything. 

If Demko, Hughes, Petterson is all you have to show for 8 years worth of drafting, that's quite bad. 

Dallas got Heiskanen, Robertson, and Jake Oettinger all in one year. 

 

And dare I say in terms of talent level Heiskanen, Robertson, and Jake Oettinger matches pretty close to Demko, Hughes, and Petterson. 

 

He’s still better than garbage anyway you slice it and it’s not even debatable. Gillis was 100% garbage. 

[iinatcc]

3 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

He’s still better than garbage anyway you slice it and it’s not even debatable. Gillis was 100% garbage. 

 

Well if you describe something as "better than garbage" it doesn't make it much better.

Having said that Gillis' greatest flaw was drafting but his strength was more on trades, contract negotiations, and his innovations. Benning's apparent strongest point is drafting and it's only a level higher than garbage 

[King Heffy]

7 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

 

Well if you describe something as "better than garbage" it doesn't make it much better.

Having said that Gillis' greatest flaw was drafting but his strength was more on trades, contract negotiations, and his innovations. Benning's apparent strongest point is drafting and it's only a level higher than garbage 

Gillis also made a ton of terrible trades and crippled the franchise with the Luongo recapture.  His major flaw was being completely unqualified to work in hockey ops in any capacity.

[Ghostsof1915]

On 10/5/2023 at 3:27 PM, AK-19 said:

.....that is depressing. Not a single hit with first rounders in an 8 year period.

If Bourdon didn't die tragically I'm pretty sure he would have been and NHL'er.

[The Duke]

36 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

 

Hoglander hasn't really proven anything. 

If Demko, Hughes, Petterson is all you have to show for 8 years worth of drafting, that's quite bad. 

Dallas got Heiskanen, Robertson, and Jake Oettinger all in one year. 

 

And dare I say in terms of talent level Heiskanen, Robertson, and Jake Oettinger matches pretty close to Demko, Hughes, and Petterson. 

It’s not just Hughes, Demko and Pettersson though.  We also drafted McCann and Forsling for actual high end players.

 

McDonough, Silovs, Hoglander, Klimovich, Podkolzin, Brisebois still have potential to be NHL’ers.

 

Madden, Lockwood and Gaudette were intriguing enough to be included in trades. Madden at least returned a pretty nice player in Toffoli.

 

So I wouldn’t call the drafting “garbage.”  Whiffing on Virtanen AND Juolevi sucks but don’t forget we also traded away a lot of picks during this time as well.  If you focus solely in on drafting it was acceptable, especially considering the elite 3.

[The Duke]

…and the scouting/drafting department seems to be doing alright.  I like a lot of our picks the past 2 years with Lekkerimaki bouncing back.

[iinatcc]

5 minutes ago, The Duke said:

It’s not just Hughes, Demko and Pettersson though.  We also drafted McCann and Forsling for actual high end players.

 

McDonough, Silovs, Hoglander, Klimovich, Podkolzin, Brisebois still have potential to be NHL’ers.

 

Madden, Lockwood and Gaudette were intriguing enough to be included in trades. Madden at least returned a pretty nice player in Toffoli.

 

So I wouldn’t call the drafting “garbage.”  Whiffing on Virtanen AND Juolevi sucks but don’t forget we also traded away a lot of picks during this time as well.  If you focus solely in on drafting it was acceptable, especially considering the elite 3.

 

I think we are overvaluing some, if not most, of these players 

[AnthonyG]

1 hour ago, canuck73_3 said:

It lead us within 1 win of a cup… 

 

And when they have no contract they are virtually worthless so getting a 4th was an actual win.

 

The Islanders gave up a 4th and he didn’t even sign there… 

And how’d that pan out for the future?

came within 1 win

refused to make changes to the roster while winning a 2nd presidents trophy, got smoked by LA and then 2 years later we’re all out of gas????? Boston took how long to run out of steam? St Louis? The amount of teams that managed to continue extending their window for years and years is impressive yet depressing. Impressive because there are plenty of teams who could continue to compete… depressing because several teams managed to continue competing, yet somehow we werent one of them. Thanks Gillis for a game 7, but thats it.

[AnthonyG]

1 hour ago, WSAcanuck said:

The problem is Benning and Gillis were both overall garbage at drafting. 

Ummmm Benning was far from garbage at drafting. If you do a little research, he was actually top 10 in drafting and producing NHL talent

[WSAcanuck]

41 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Ummmm Benning was far from garbage at drafting. If you do a little research, he was actually top 10 in drafting and producing NHL talent

NHL talent like who? Outside of the obvious handful of names over several seasons, hardly any players drafted by Benning have become full time nhl players. If “nhl talent” to you means getting a few call ups or flaming out after a year or two then I guess that meets your standards.

 

Benning hit on exactly 2 first round picks in his entire tenure that have had any significant positive impact on the Canucks. And Demko in the 2nd round. Who else were these big wins?

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, WSAcanuck said:

NHL talent like who? Outside of the obvious handful of names over several seasons, hardly any players drafted by Benning have become full time nhl players. If “nhl talent” to you means getting a few call ups or flaming out after a year or two then I guess that meets your standards.

 

Benning hit on exactly 2 first round picks in his entire tenure that have had any significant positive impact on the Canucks. And Demko in the 2nd round. Who else were these big wins?

Benning was era was our worst GMing ever. Seriously puck sucking bad.

[Dizzle]

52 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

And how’d that pan out for the future?

came within 1 win

refused to make changes to the roster while winning a 2nd presidents trophy, got smoked by LA and then 2 years later we’re all out of gas????? Boston took how long to run out of steam? St Louis? The amount of teams that managed to continue extending their window for years and years is impressive yet depressing. Impressive because there are plenty of teams who could continue to compete… depressing because several teams managed to continue competing, yet somehow we werent one of them. Thanks Gillis for a game 7, but thats it.

By all accounts… Gillis tenure here ended because he seemed to realize the need to make significant changes. 
 

But we’re a long way off track at this point. Bottom line remains, white for Erhoff was absolutely not akin to a 1st for a 4th. No way. No how.