[Signing] Juolevi signs with Timrå

[Alflives]

Just now, Dizzle said:

By all accounts… Gillis tenure here ended because he seemed to realize the need to make significant changes. 
 

But we’re a long way off track at this point. Bottom line remains, white for Erhoff was absolutely not akin to a 1st for a 4th. No way. No how. 

Gillis was our GM (and President) during our clubs best era. Not arguable fact. Benning was the GM during our worst era. Could argue that. 

[WSAcanuck]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Gillis was our GM (and President) during our clubs best era. Not arguable fact. Benning was the GM during our worst era. Could argue that. 

None of that is arguable imo. 

[Bob Long]

I still think barring his injuries we could have had a serviceable player. But still the wrong choice in the draft. And we still would have lost tkatpuke. 

[AnthonyG]

1 hour ago, WSAcanuck said:

NHL talent like who? Outside of the obvious handful of names over several seasons, hardly any players drafted by Benning have become full time nhl players. If “nhl talent” to you means getting a few call ups or flaming out after a year or two then I guess that meets your standards.

 

Benning hit on exactly 2 first round picks in his entire tenure that have had any significant positive impact on the Canucks. And Demko in the 2nd round. Who else were these big wins?

Whats gillis’s excuse bud?

what about nonis?

Enlighten me lmfao Ben Hutton?? Hahahahahha 

[AnthonyG]

56 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Gillis was our GM (and President) during our clubs best era. Not arguable fact. Benning was the GM during our worst era. Could argue that. 

 

52 minutes ago, WSAcanuck said:

None of that is arguable imo. 

Lmao Gillis captained the titanic. Ran that ship to the fuckin bottom so fast

 

How many cap recaptured did Gillis deal with? Expansion drafts? How long did he extend our window? Lmao

[Alflives]

Just now, AnthonyG said:

 

Lmao Gillis captained the titanic. Ran that ship to the fuckin bottom so fast

 

How many cap recaptured did Gillis deal with? Expansion drafts? How long did he extend our window? Lmao

Not arguing any of that. Only pointing out fact. The fact is Gillis was GM and President during our club’s best era. That’s not arguable. 

[AnthonyG]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Not arguing any of that. Only pointing out fact. The fact is Gillis was GM and President during our club’s best era. That’s not arguable. 

He was employed, but far from doing the best job or even a “good” job. He sucked at his job and its not even remotely debatable 

[Alflives]

Just now, AnthonyG said:

He was employed, but far from doing the best job or even a “good” job. He sucked at his job and its not even remotely debatable 

You can argue all that extra stuff and that’s fine. I’m pointing out, as I’ve done before, that Gillis was GM and President during our club’s best era. “He inherited the core. He couldn’t draft. He bled assets. He was a as**ole”. That’s all arguable. But his being GM and President during our best era isn’t arguable. It’s fact. 
IMHAO Gillis was a prick. Benning 100% came across as likeable. But that’s subjective. The club’s success during the Gillis era compared to the terrible Benning era is objective fact. 

[AnthonyG]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

You can argue all that extra stuff and that’s fine. I’m pointing out, as I’ve done before, that Gillis was GM and President during our club’s best era. “He inherited the core. He couldn’t draft. He bled assets. He was a as**ole”. That’s all arguable. But his being GM and President during our best era isn’t arguable. It’s fact. 
IMHAO Gillis was a prick. Benning 100% came across as likeable. But that’s subjective. The club’s success during the Gillis era compared to the terrible Benning era is objective fact. 

Tell me what the point of stating that Gillis was the GM/POHO during our most successful era, yet admitting he hardly had any real impact. 
Do you like telling everyone water is wet? You speak as if Gillis was highly impactful.

 

Gillis’s agenda vs Bennings agenda

Two totally different objectives.

Gillis was brought in to win. He came close. But fucked the future.

 

Benning was brought in for his scouting background aka he was brought in to rebuild the future. 

 

[Forzatikare]

We will be getting some Juoelvi action starting in about 35 mins, warmups right now 

 

He will be pairing with Joonas Lyytinen as #1-2 Dmen and starting with former Oiler Anton Lander at Centre and Dahlen at wing 

[WSAcanuck]

On 10/6/2023 at 7:32 PM, AnthonyG said:

He was employed, but far from doing the best job or even a “good” job. He sucked at his job and its not even remotely debatable 

Gillis surrounded a strong upcoming core with an absolutely great complement of depth guys and role players. He made a lot of really good moves early on and the team had its most successful period during his time. 
 

He wasn’t perfect but he was one of the best GM’s the Canucks have had. 

[Alflives]

Just now, WSAcanuck said:

Gillis surrounded a strong upcoming core with an absolutely great complement of depth guys and role players. He made a lot of really good moves early on and the team had its most successful period during his time. 
 

He wasn’t perfect but he was one of the best GM’s the Canucks have had. 

Yup. Can’t argue against Gillis was GM and POHO during our most successful era. 

[Guntrix]

On 10/5/2023 at 9:30 AM, DownUndaCanuck said:

OJ seemed like a good two way defenceman at the time but I guess you never know. The Virtanen pick and OJ pick really devastated this team. I know there are people who say "if we had drafted Nylander and McAvoy/Sergachev/Tkachuk then we would never have drafted Petey and Hughes" but I don't know about that - we were still a dreadful team and those guys weren't super impactful in their rookie years. 

 

Obviously it's the "what if" game but best case scenario for the team would have been snagging Nylander, Petey, McAvoy and Hughes. That's an unreal core to build around, a bit like what NJD have going for them. 2/4 isn't great, and sure, a lot of teams make mistakes and busts with first rounders but I remember looking back at all the top 10 busts of the last decade or so and most of them are Canucks.

 

More than busts, my bigger issue is the player picked directly after our picks. You just know the other teams were laughing when we missed on them. 

Saying “if we wouldn’t have drafted Virtanen/Juolevi, we also wouldn’t have drafted x player” was probably one of CDC posters’ most creative ways of avoiding having to admit they were wrong about those guys. 

[AnthonyG]

13 hours ago, WSAcanuck said:

Gillis surrounded a strong upcoming core with an absolutely great complement of depth guys and role players. He made a lot of really good moves early on and the team had its most successful period during his time. 
 

He wasn’t perfect but he was one of the best GM’s the Canucks have had. 

The guy couldnt get another job in the NHL as a GM. If he was so damn good, why was he a professor at UVIC and not a GM or POHO?

 

Applauding Gillis that he was able to surround our core with depth guys and having expendable picks to go all in, or having guys like Hamhuis who basically told Gillis he was going to sign with Vancouver, is nothing to brag about or be in awe of. He had disposable assets because of the team that Burke and Nonis largely built.

 

He traded a 1st, Bernier and Grabner for Ballard. How nice of Grabner to put up 34 goals in 2010-11 meanwhile Ballard was a healthy scratch quite often.

 

Traded a 3rd for Andrew fuckin Alberts. 
 

Gillis was free to overpay during his tenure because he inherited a contending team in its prime. He was free to make as many poor trades as he wanted so long as it didnt involve core players. His drafting was okay to suck balls while we were winning because we were winning… but that ended up hurting us badly down the road. 
 

Benning inherited almost a completely depleted organization. Not much of value to speed up any sort of rebuild. He had to replace the core, build a prospect pool and also try to keep the fans entertained. He endured 2 expansion drafts, a frozen cap, a cap recapture, being the only team to be shut down mid season for a month and being unhealthy and not ready to return to play, Brandon Sutters career ended from that. For anyone to think Benning was brought in to win, they are delusional. He was brought in for his scouting background to rebuild. His moves the first 5 years all support that. When he realized how fast things began to turn around due to his drafting, he began making moves to push for playoffs, which he did so successfully in 2019. He got hit with the frozen cap, then our season got put on pause. The last 2 seasons were part of the growing pains of rebuilding and the youth learning how to find their way. Bennings impact on this team is nearly the same as Burke+Nonis. Our current management group is what I would say the Gillis stage, where we can add depth and overpay a bit to start going over the top.

[canuck73_3]

2 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

The guy couldnt get another job in the NHL as a GM. If he was so damn good, why was he a professor at UVIC and not a GM or POHO?

 

Applauding Gillis that he was able to surround our core with depth guys and having expendable picks to go all in, or having guys like Hamhuis who basically told Gillis he was going to sign with Vancouver, is nothing to brag about or be in awe of. He had disposable assets because of the team that Burke and Nonis largely built.

 

He traded a 1st, Bernier and Grabner for Ballard. How nice of Grabner to put up 34 goals in 2010-11 meanwhile Ballard was a healthy scratch quite often.

 

Traded a 3rd for Andrew fuckin Alberts. 
 

Gillis was free to overpay during his tenure because he inherited a contending team in its prime. He was free to make as many poor trades as he wanted so long as it didnt involve core players. His drafting was okay to suck balls while we were winning because we were winning… but that ended up hurting us badly down the road. 
 

Benning inherited almost a completely depleted organization. Not much of value to speed up any sort of rebuild. He had to replace the core, build a prospect pool and also try to keep the fans entertained. He endured 2 expansion drafts, a frozen cap, a cap recapture, being the only team to be shut down mid season for a month and being unhealthy and not ready to return to play, Brandon Sutters career ended from that. For anyone to think Benning was brought in to win, they are delusional. He was brought in for his scouting background to rebuild. His moves the first 5 years all support that. When he realized how fast things began to turn around due to his drafting, he began making moves to push for playoffs, which he did so successfully in 2019. He got hit with the frozen cap, then our season got put on pause. The last 2 seasons were part of the growing pains of rebuilding and the youth learning how to find their way. Bennings impact on this team is nearly the same as Burke+Nonis. Our current management group is what I would say the Gillis stage, where we can add depth and overpay a bit to start going over the top.

He never applied for a GM job anywhere until recently when he took an interview within the last 2 years. So we don’t actually know if teams would have hired him. He’s since been a consultant for the NHLPA since 2021 as well. 

[The Lock]

On 10/6/2023 at 5:21 PM, Dizzle said:

By all accounts… Gillis tenure here ended because he seemed to realize the need to make significant changes. 
 

But we’re a long way off track at this point. Bottom line remains, white for Erhoff was absolutely not akin to a 1st for a 4th. No way. No how. 

 

Gillis' tenure ended when the entire hockey rink was screaming "Fire Gillis". Let's not forget what the fans wanted. It was much much more than him wanting significant changes. The guy literally went crazy in the end on the radio saying "you're either with me or against me".

 

To say otherwise is revisionist history and it kind of baffles me there are people who seem to want to forget all this just to praise the guy. They want to only remember the good things Gillis did while remembering only the bad things Benning did. I'm not here to defend and accuse any GM, but I do think people need to look at things way more objectively, because they are not.

Edited October 8, 2023 by The Lock

[The Lock]

On 10/6/2023 at 5:23 PM, Alflives said:

Gillis was our GM (and President) during our clubs best era. Not arguable fact. Benning was the GM during our worst era. Could argue that. 

 

The real question here is was the best era because of Gillis and was the worst era because of Benning, or are there more factors to consider (ie. what Nonis did before Gillis and management not wanting a rebuild)?

Edited October 8, 2023 by The Lock

[AnthonyG]

56 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

He never applied for a GM job anywhere until recently when he took an interview within the last 2 years. So we don’t actually know if teams would have hired him. He’s since been a consultant for the NHLPA since 2021 as well. 

You can say that with absolute certainty that GMMG never applied for another GM job up until 2 years ago? All 30 teams reported to you that he never applied for a job. 
How come he never got a phone call? No one asked him either.

its been almost 4 years actually since he tried getting back in.

There has been plenty of job openings from GM to Executive roles in the NHL since Gillis was last employed in April 2014. Though interviewed for some of those opennings, Gillis has still yet to be hired by an NHL club.
I dont think there is a more decorated Manager or executive out there, yet its now been 6 yrs and counting since Gillis was in the NHL. This is very odd considering the NHL is known for circulating the same old boys club.

Here is a quick snip-it of Gillis's resume.

-Gillis was the Executive of Year winner in 2011, over the likes of Yzerman, Poille.
-He was the architect of 2 President Trophy Winners
- Built a team that was 1 win away from a Stanley Cup
- Made great signings like Hamhuis and Malhotra
- great trade like 9th overall for cory schneider, then drafted bo horvat
- No name prospect patrick white for Christian Ehrhoff
- Jacob Markstrom for Roberto Luongo
- He was considered a top agent before becoming a GM

Its very interesting to see that the NHL doesnt think very much of Gillis yet he has quite the following and supporters in the Vancouver fan base. Why is that?

3 things that I think might be MG's downfall.

1. Horrible draft history as a GM. I mean horrible

1st round picks included- Cody Hodgson, Jordan Schroeder, Niklas Jensen, Brendan Gaunce, B Horvat, Hunter Shinkaruk,

2nd rnd picks included - anton rodin, yann sauve, Alexandre Mallet

2. Made bad trades and traded away draft picks like candy.

- 1st rnd pick, Grabner, Steve Bernier for Keith Ballard
- 3rd rnd pick for Andrew Alberts
-3rd rnd pick for Max Lapierre
- 2x 4th round picks for Samuel Pahlsson
- 2nd rnd pick for Derek Roy
4th rnd pick for Zach Dalpe

3. He had a big ego and and apparently did not get along well with media.

 

 

I’d argue Luongo for Markstrom and Matthias was a bad trade. We retained salary, Matthias was softer than baby shit and Markstrom has had 1 good season in his entire career and im fuckin glad we never resigned him.

[AnthonyG]

On 10/6/2023 at 4:00 PM, canuck73_3 said:

Benning was hit or miss not garbage. Can’t be called garbage at drafting when you draft Demko, Hughes, Pettersson, Höglander, etc Podkolzin after a great start is a question mark right now. 

Boeser at 23. McCann at 24. 

[Dizzle]

52 minutes ago, The Lock said:

 

Gillis' tenure ended when the entire hockey rink was screaming "Fire Gillis". Let's not forget what the fans wanted. It was much much more than him wanting significant changes. The guy literally went crazy in the end on the radio saying "you're either with me or against me".

 

To say otherwise is revisionist history and it kind of baffles me there are people who seem to want to forget all this just to praise the guy. They want to only remember the good things Gillis did while remembering only the bad things Benning did. I'm not here to defend and accuse any GM, but I do think people need to look at things way more objectively, because they are not.

It’s interesting that you use the term ‘revisionist history’ in this post…

 

I wonder if you could pull up the interview where he went crazy and claimed, ‘you’re either with me or against me.’ 

[WSAcanuck]

7 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

The guy couldnt get another job in the NHL as a GM. If he was so damn good, why was he a professor at UVIC and not a GM or POHO?

 

Applauding Gillis that he was able to surround our core with depth guys and having expendable picks to go all in, or having guys like Hamhuis who basically told Gillis he was going to sign with Vancouver, is nothing to brag about or be in awe of. He had disposable assets because of the team that Burke and Nonis largely built.

 

He traded a 1st, Bernier and Grabner for Ballard. How nice of Grabner to put up 34 goals in 2010-11 meanwhile Ballard was a healthy scratch quite often.

 

Traded a 3rd for Andrew fuckin Alberts. 
 

Gillis was free to overpay during his tenure because he inherited a contending team in its prime. He was free to make as many poor trades as he wanted so long as it didnt involve core players. His drafting was okay to suck balls while we were winning because we were winning… but that ended up hurting us badly down the road. 
 

Benning inherited almost a completely depleted organization. Not much of value to speed up any sort of rebuild. He had to replace the core, build a prospect pool and also try to keep the fans entertained. He endured 2 expansion drafts, a frozen cap, a cap recapture, being the only team to be shut down mid season for a month and being unhealthy and not ready to return to play, Brandon Sutters career ended from that. For anyone to think Benning was brought in to win, they are delusional. He was brought in for his scouting background to rebuild. His moves the first 5 years all support that. When he realized how fast things began to turn around due to his drafting, he began making moves to push for playoffs, which he did so successfully in 2019. He got hit with the frozen cap, then our season got put on pause. The last 2 seasons were part of the growing pains of rebuilding and the youth learning how to find their way. Bennings impact on this team is nearly the same as Burke+Nonis. Our current management group is what I would say the Gillis stage, where we can add depth and overpay a bit to start going over the top.

So which subsequent GM position does Benning have again? Lol

 

If you directly compare Gillis and Benning on just their skill and overall trade costs of adding depth players around the core then please explain how you don’t think Gillis deserves praise but Benning does? Again Lol

 

The Ballard trade was not the best but context matters. Hamhuis was not signed at that point. And there was no guarantee he would sign with Van.

 

AV completely miscast Ballard and rendered him redundant in the lineup and didn’t use him to his strengths at all. That was a huge coaching fail that likely cost us the cup after all our D injuries: 
 

Benning didn’t start with a depleted roster. He would never have got the job if he didn’t agree like the stubborn owners to refuse a rebuild. 

 

I won’t argue that Benning’s impact on the team is huge. It’s just huge in a negative way on pretty much the whole organization. 

[WSAcanuck]

3 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

Boeser at 23. McCann at 24. 

He traded McCann plus for Gudbranson so apparently even he thought he sucked at drafting. 
 

Boeser at 23 was a good pick but it’s not like he is an elite level player. 
 

With even average drafting by Benning and not trading picks for garbage the team would be in a way better position now. 

[Blue]

He signed with a team with 7000 twitter followers

[Blue]

20 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

You can say that with absolute certainty that GMMG never applied for another GM job up until 2 years ago? All 30 teams reported to you that he never applied for a job. 
How come he never got a phone call? No one asked him either.

its been almost 4 years actually since he tried getting back in.

There has been plenty of job openings from GM to Executive roles in the NHL since Gillis was last employed in April 2014. Though interviewed for some of those opennings, Gillis has still yet to be hired by an NHL club.
I dont think there is a more decorated Manager or executive out there, yet its now been 6 yrs and counting since Gillis was in the NHL. This is very odd considering the NHL is known for circulating the same old boys club.

Here is a quick snip-it of Gillis's resume.

-Gillis was the Executive of Year winner in 2011, over the likes of Yzerman, Poille.
-He was the architect of 2 President Trophy Winners
- Built a team that was 1 win away from a Stanley Cup
- Made great signings like Hamhuis and Malhotra
- great trade like 9th overall for cory schneider, then drafted bo horvat
- No name prospect patrick white for Christian Ehrhoff
- Jacob Markstrom for Roberto Luongo
- He was considered a top agent before becoming a GM

Its very interesting to see that the NHL doesnt think very much of Gillis yet he has quite the following and supporters in the Vancouver fan base. Why is that?

3 things that I think might be MG's downfall.
 

I think the main reason he never got another job is that he was an outsider. Period. There was this "who are you" attitude towards him the day he got the job. And when he got fired, it was like "bye bye". Im not an MG fan but if anything, it just proves you're either in the old boys club or you aren't. There's far worse GM records out there and those GMs still get jobs

[MeanSeanBean]

I'm man enough to admit it. I had full confidence Joulevi was a top 4 Dman...