Super19 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 9 hours ago, Bob Long said: Do we actually know whats left of Hamas ability to cause major harm? No you'll never get rid of the crazies, but not sure what capabilities they have left. I suspect very little now That could be why we're seeing these escalation attempts elsewhere. My 2 cents: The IDF went into Gaza with the stated goal of eliminating Hamas, and have been withdrawing troops without accomplishing the stated goal. I think it's too costly for the IDF to fight Hamas in Gaza, suggesting that Hamas is capable of doing harm via guerilla warfare within Gaza. What we are seeing the IDF do now as they pull out of Gaza is two things: 1) bomb the shit out of a 1km buffer zone right along the border of the Gaza Strip. This will exploit Hamas capabilities considerably as Hamas do not have the military tech to meet the IDF at the border. Venturing into this open area buffer zone would be a death sentence for any Hamas that tries. 2) Turn Gaza into the most brutal open air prison the world has seen. Introduce poverty, famine and brutal conditions inside Gaza anticipating that the people of Gaza collectively turn on Hamas and surrender their positions. Israel don't need their soldiers in Gaza to accomplish these goals, and they can maintain this for however long they can afford it. ICJ and UN and the international community be damned, Israel will be able to get away with this as long as they can afford it and the US supports it. With talks of Hezbollah-Israel entering full scale, the IDF will travel north to meet with Hezbollah if this ever happens, and Hamas is contained within Gaza under the full strength of Israel's siege. The escalations seemed almost certain since day 1, and I fear that this is indeed the trajectory without a ceasefire and diplomacy. What we saw the past 110 days is how capable is Hamas within Gaza, and how much will Israel be allowed to get away with? Seems like the answer to both these questions is - more than we thought. And these were answers both these combatants were closely watching and waiting to be answered. Hezbollah saw Hamas capabilities fighting the IDF in Gaza and feel emboldened in a clash with the IDF, and Israel knows they can put Gaza under a brutal siege from a distance saving all their soldiers for the fight with Hezbollah. It seems to me that Hamas is not alone in this war (Yemen, Hezbollah, Iran) and Israel wants more than just eliminating/making peace with Hamas (Nentanyahu wants no 2 state solution, Israeli officials want Palestinians migrated out of Gaza). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 4 hours ago, Optimist Prime said: If Israel did not strike first, Israel would have been attacked mercilessly the next day. That has been well established. It was a preemptive strike on the units that were moving to hit Israel. And that was the one time out of 16 big fights that Israel hit first. Nice of you to bring it up. Peace love and beads...but Israel is bad for hitting the guys about to murder them before they had a chance to murder them first? LOL....starting to get a whif of something foul here. Who do you think you are holding to account on a back page sub-forum of a hockey fans board? That is a part of your thing I don't understand. Israel is holding the government of Gaza to account for its attack on Oct 7th. We are just fighting over the meaning of words on a hockey forum. You aren't holding anyone to account here about anything. Hamas wasn't holding anyone to account on oct 7th either, they were out to murder and capture..what was it again: oh yes people who believe as you do: they literally were killed at a peace festival, 1200 folks...like cattle or sheep at a slaughter. That can not be left unanswered or the murderous scum would simply do it again. Brother, I thought you of all people would know your history, and also believe the actual Isreali cabinet documents. If you want to call the massacre at Dier Yassin and other massacres in Arab villages that contained only unarmed civilians, pre emptive strikes on legitimate military targets, I don't really know what to say to you. I posted the thoughts of Isreal cabinet members, they were horrified, appalled at the actions of Isreali soldiers in 1948 Here you go again https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2021-12-09/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/classified-docs-reveal-deir-yassin-massacre-wasnt-the-only-one-perpetrated-by-isra/0000017f-e496-d7b2-a77f-e79772340000 Did you read the thoughts of the cabinet members ? Those weren't legitimate military targets, they were just arab villagers. For about the umpteenth time I have condemned Hamas before and after these attacks for violence. I have also defended Isreals right to defend itself against attack, telling Roman I admired their pre-emptive strike on the Egyptian Airforce, stating it probably saved lives in the long run. The difference between me and you is you hold the Isrealis to a different account. You find reasons to justify actions they have committed in the past, actions that today would be considered acts of terrorism. You also stated that when tribes choose peace they are eliminated by those who use violence. Well the Palestinians did renounce violence and tried to enforce that but Israel broke their part of the bargain and kept taking land. How are the Palestinian meant to form a state ? We both know that is now probably never going to happen. And the way you were kinda talking, ho humming about giving back land. Like how are they meant to form a viable state/ nation/ society ? That the big difference in this thread. The people who support only the Isrealis find ways to justify the violence they commit. Me I condemn the violence used by anyone, anywhere, FULL STOP. So with the current figures 9,000 murderous scum have been killed and so have 10,000 kids in three months ? You call that humane ? Thats fucked up in my books. Sigh......we will never stop fighting stupid wars, and killing each other for stupid reasons. Because people will always find reasons to justify the killing of women and children. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 5 hours ago, Optimist Prime said: 10k in 90 days =111 a day or 5 an hour (terrible yes, i shouldn't have to say so every freakin post) 1200 in 4 hours= 300 an hour!! your outrage math doesn't add up. For starters I was only talking about kids, not other victims. And that outrage math comment ? As I have stated so many times, I am not outraged I was/am heart broken by the events of October 7. And I am heartbroken by the events since. And again as I have stated so many times, my thoughts are with the families of the victims on both sides of this conflict. Not just this particular phase, but for the last 80- 100 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 10 minutes ago, Ilunga said: Brother, I thought you of all people would know your history, and also believe the actual Isreali cabinet documents. If you want to call the massacre at Dier Yassin and other massacres in Arab villages that contained only unarmed civilians, pre emptive strikes on legitimate military targets, I don't really know what to say to you. I posted the thoughts of Isreal cabinet members, they were horrified, appalled at the actions of Isreali soldiers in 1948 Here you go again https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2021-12-09/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/classified-docs-reveal-deir-yassin-massacre-wasnt-the-only-one-perpetrated-by-isra/0000017f-e496-d7b2-a77f-e79772340000 Did you read the thoughts of the cabinet members ? Those weren't legitimate military targets, they were just arab villagers. For about the umpteenth time I have condemned Hamas before and after these attacks for violence. I have also defended Isreals right to defend itself against attack, telling Roman I admired their pre-emptive strike on the Egyptian Airforce, stating it probably saved lives in the long run. The difference between me and you is you hold the Isrealis to a different account. You find reasons to justify actions they have committed in the past, actions that today would be considered acts of terrorism. You also stated that when tribes choose peace they are eliminated by those who use violence. Well the Palestinians did renounce violence and tried to enforce that but Israel broke their part of the bargain and kept taking land. How are the Palestinian meant to form a state ? We both know that is now probably never going to happen. And the way you were kinda talking, ho humming about giving back land. Like how are they meant to form a viable state/ nation/ society ? That the big difference in this thread. The people who support only the Isrealis find ways to justify the violence they commit. Me I condemn the violence used by anyone, anywhere, FULL STOP. So with the current figures 9,000 murderous scum have been killed and so have 10,000 kids in three months ? You call that humane ? Thats fucked up in my books. Sigh......we will never stop fighting stupid wars, and killing each other for stupid reasons. Because people will always find reasons to justify the killing of women and children. And men. I beli3ve in equality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 42 minutes ago, Super19 said: My 2 cents: The IDF went into Gaza with the stated goal of eliminating Hamas, and have been withdrawing troops without accomplishing the stated goal. I think it's too costly for the IDF to fight Hamas in Gaza, suggesting that Hamas is capable of doing harm via guerilla warfare within Gaza. What we are seeing the IDF do now as they pull out of Gaza is two things: 1) bomb the shit out of a 1km buffer zone right along the border of the Gaza Strip. This will exploit Hamas capabilities considerably as Hamas do not have the military tech to meet the IDF at the border. Venturing into this open area buffer zone would be a death sentence for any Hamas that tries. 2) Turn Gaza into the most brutal open air prison the world has seen. Introduce poverty, famine and brutal conditions inside Gaza anticipating that the people of Gaza collectively turn on Hamas and surrender their positions. Israel don't need their soldiers in Gaza to accomplish these goals, and they can maintain this for however long they can afford it. ICJ and UN and the international community be damned, Israel will be able to get away with this as long as they can afford it and the US supports it. With talks of Hezbollah-Israel entering full scale, the IDF will travel north to meet with Hezbollah if this ever happens, and Hamas is contained within Gaza under the full strength of Israel's siege. The escalations seemed almost certain since day 1, and I fear that this is indeed the trajectory without a ceasefire and diplomacy. What we saw the past 110 days is how capable is Hamas within Gaza, and how much will Israel be allowed to get away with? Seems like the answer to both these questions is - more than we thought. And these were answers both these combatants were closely watching and waiting to be answered. Hezbollah saw Hamas capabilities fighting the IDF in Gaza and feel emboldened in a clash with the IDF, and Israel knows they can put Gaza under a brutal siege from a distance saving all their soldiers for the fight with Hezbollah. It seems to me that Hamas is not alone in this war (Yemen, Hezbollah, Iran) and Israel wants more than just eliminating/making peace with Hamas (Nentanyahu wants no 2 state solution, Israeli officials want Palestinians migrated out of Gaza). Get away with? This is what Hamas wanted to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: And men. I beli3ve in equality. Some how the images of women and children being killed affect me more. Especially kids. I cannot help but picture Lachlan in my mind. As for equal rights my avatar is my friends daughter that just won an Australasian boxing title that night. It still seem a bit weird watching two girls beating the shit out of each other. As for why I advocate for peace. Apart from my personal experiences with violent situations, my mum used to say to me, why do you take the weight of the world on your shoulders, why do you take on others pain. I honestly don't know, that's just the person I am. I am glad I feel this way. I am glad something hurts inside of me when I see others in pain. Little anecdote, I haven't smiled for 2 complete days since September last year, that was the last time I saw my beautiful Lachlan, his mum is breaking court orders, Parental Alienation/ child abuse. Anyway watched live hockey on Saturday Arvo saw NOFX for the last time ever later on, backed up by a great local band the Clowns. Just found out today that a girl I sat beside at the concert told my friend that I made her night, my interactions with her. Anyway friends have been ringing for the last 2 days for my birthday today, fuckin 60 years old, and got my seniors fuckin card, who would believe it. So much sunshine in the last two days in a life that has been full of darkness, that feels like forever. Edited January 29 by Ilunga 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 46 minutes ago, Ilunga said: Some how the images of women and children being killed affect me more. Especially kids. I cannot help but picture Lachlan in my mind. As for equal rights my avatar is my friends daughter that just won an Australasian boxing title that night. It still seem a bit weird watching two girls beating the shit out of each other. As for why I advocate for peace. Apart from my personal experiences with violent situations, my mum used to say to me, why do you take the weight of the world on your shoulders, why do you take on others pain. I honestly don't know, that's just the person I am. I am glad I feel this way. I am glad something hurts inside of me when I see others in pain. Little anecdote, I haven't smiled for 2 complete days since September last year, that was the last time I saw my beautiful Lachlan, his mum is breaking court orders, Parental Alienation/ child abuse. Anyway watched live hockey on Saturday Arvo saw NOFX for the last time ever later on, backed up by a great local band the Clowns. Just found out today that a girl I sat beside at the concert told my friend that I made her night, my interactions with her. Anyway friends have been ringing for the last 2 days for my birthday today, fuckin 60 years old, and got my seniors fuckin card, who would believe it. So much sunshine in the last two days in a life that has been full of darkness, that feels like forever. Well what the hell, love you brother! Hippie Bath Day!!!!! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 5 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: Well what the hell, love you brother! Hippie Bath Day !!!! https://youtu.be/Dfc-Yn43Qeg?si=rwnSWVKxBzSIX2Va Thanks my friend. This old punker loves that birthday song...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, Bob Long said: Get away with? This is what Hamas wanted to happen. Humanitarian aid has not being flowing through Kerem Shalom crossing as protesters have forced it closed for the past several days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 3 hours ago, Ilunga said: Brother, I thought you of all people would know your history, and also believe the actual Isreali cabinet documents. If you want to call the massacre at Dier Yassin and other massacres in Arab villages that contained only unarmed civilians, pre emptive strikes on legitimate military targets, I don't really know what to say to you. I posted the thoughts of Isreal cabinet members, they were horrified, appalled at the actions of Isreali soldiers in 1948 Here you go again https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2021-12-09/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/classified-docs-reveal-deir-yassin-massacre-wasnt-the-only-one-perpetrated-by-isra/0000017f-e496-d7b2-a77f-e79772340000 Did you read the thoughts of the cabinet members ? Those weren't legitimate military targets, they were just arab villagers. For about the umpteenth time I have condemned Hamas before and after these attacks for violence. I have also defended Isreals right to defend itself against attack, telling Roman I admired their pre-emptive strike on the Egyptian Airforce, stating it probably saved lives in the long run. The difference between me and you is you hold the Isrealis to a different account. You find reasons to justify actions they have committed in the past, actions that today would be considered acts of terrorism. You also stated that when tribes choose peace they are eliminated by those who use violence. Well the Palestinians did renounce violence and tried to enforce that but Israel broke their part of the bargain and kept taking land. How are the Palestinian meant to form a state ? We both know that is now probably never going to happen. And the way you were kinda talking, ho humming about giving back land. Like how are they meant to form a viable state/ nation/ society ? That the big difference in this thread. The people who support only the Isrealis find ways to justify the violence they commit. Me I condemn the violence used by anyone, anywhere, FULL STOP. So with the current figures 9,000 murderous scum have been killed and so have 10,000 kids in three months ? You call that humane ? Thats fucked up in my books. Sigh......we will never stop fighting stupid wars, and killing each other for stupid reasons. Because people will always find reasons to justify the killing of women and children. Please stop, just stop about “massacre of Dier Yassin”. Let me know when you want to learn all the sides of that “massacre”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 3 hours ago, Ilunga said: Brother, I thought you of all people would know your history, and also believe the actual Isreali cabinet documents. If you want to call the massacre at Dier Yassin and other massacres in Arab villages that contained only unarmed civilians, pre emptive strikes on legitimate military targets, I don't really know what to say to you. I posted the thoughts of Isreal cabinet members, they were horrified, appalled at the actions of Isreali soldiers in 1948 Here you go again https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2021-12-09/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/classified-docs-reveal-deir-yassin-massacre-wasnt-the-only-one-perpetrated-by-isra/0000017f-e496-d7b2-a77f-e79772340000 Did you read the thoughts of the cabinet members ? Those weren't legitimate military targets, they were just arab villagers. For about the umpteenth time I have condemned Hamas before and after these attacks for violence. I have also defended Isreals right to defend itself against attack, telling Roman I admired their pre-emptive strike on the Egyptian Airforce, stating it probably saved lives in the long run. The difference between me and you is you hold the Isrealis to a different account. You find reasons to justify actions they have committed in the past, actions that today would be considered acts of terrorism. You also stated that when tribes choose peace they are eliminated by those who use violence. Well the Palestinians did renounce violence and tried to enforce that but Israel broke their part of the bargain and kept taking land. How are the Palestinian meant to form a state ? We both know that is now probably never going to happen. And the way you were kinda talking, ho humming about giving back land. Like how are they meant to form a viable state/ nation/ society ? That the big difference in this thread. The people who support only the Isrealis find ways to justify the violence they commit. Me I condemn the violence used by anyone, anywhere, FULL STOP. So with the current figures 9,000 murderous scum have been killed and so have 10,000 kids in three months ? You call that humane ? Thats fucked up in my books. Sigh......we will never stop fighting stupid wars, and killing each other for stupid reasons. Because people will always find reasons to justify the killing of women and children. Here, a little taste of the truth, not from the Jewish mouth… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 23 minutes ago, RomanPer said: Here, a little taste of the truth, not from the Jewish mouth… You know what, I have had two days of joy and happiness, in a life that's full of darkness. Now I have just learnt that a good friend who was healthy as a horse 5 months ago, then diagnosed with cancer a month later has died today on my Birthday. Trying to stay positive so I will post this from my two " heeb " friends, and their white trash and bean friends Shalom See you on the other side...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 12 minutes ago, Ilunga said: You know what, I have had two days of joy and happiness, in a life that's full of darkness. Now I have just learnt that a good friend who was healthy as a horse 5 months ago, then diagnosed with cancer a month later has died today on my Birthday. Trying to stay positive so I will post this from my two " heeb " friends, and their white trash and bean friends Shalom See you on the other side...... I’m really sorry about your friend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 9 minutes ago, RomanPer said: I’m really sorry about your friend. Thanks Roman I am tired of arguing about the injustice that both Isrealis and Palestinians have had to endure in the last century or so. I gave an example where there is a group of people of different ethnicities in the middle east working towards an plurinational " state", beyond capitalism and a partriarchy, working towards restorative justice, regenerative agriculture, equality for all. This gives me some hope for our species. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 7 hours ago, Super19 said: Humanitarian aid has not being flowing through Kerem Shalom crossing as protesters have forced it closed for the past several days. Ok... What does that have to do with what we were just discussing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 21 hours ago, Bob Long said: Do we actually know whats left of Hamas ability to cause major harm? No you'll never get rid of the crazies, but not sure what capabilities they have left. I suspect very little now That could be why we're seeing these escalation attempts elsewhere. BREAKING: "Hamas says it fired rocket salvo towards Tel Aviv The Qassam Brigades, the military wing of the Palestinian group, says it targeted the Israeli city in response to Israel’s “massacres against civilians”. The attack appears to highlight the Palestinian group’s ability to still fire rockets at Israel after 115 days of relentless bombardment of Gaza by the Israeli military." "Air raid sirens sound in major cities across central Israel Warnings of incoming rockets have sounded in Tel Aviv and other major cities across central Israel for the first time in weeks, sending residents running for shelter. Israeli media reported explosions could be heard, which could indicate that the Iron Dome defence system was active. Israel said the system is 90 percent effective in intercepting rocket attacks." https://aje.io/d5c2x5?update=2658714 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 9 minutes ago, Super19 said: BREAKING: "Hamas says it fired rocket salvo towards Tel Aviv The Qassam Brigades, the military wing of the Palestinian group, says it targeted the Israeli city in response to Israel’s “massacres against civilians”. The attack appears to highlight the Palestinian group’s ability to still fire rockets at Israel after 115 days of relentless bombardment of Gaza by the Israeli military." "Air raid sirens sound in major cities across central Israel Warnings of incoming rockets have sounded in Tel Aviv and other major cities across central Israel for the first time in weeks, sending residents running for shelter. Israeli media reported explosions could be heard, which could indicate that the Iron Dome defence system was active. Israel said the system is 90 percent effective in intercepting rocket attacks." https://aje.io/d5c2x5?update=2658714 So doesn't this prove Hamas doesn't give two shits about it's own people? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) Why was there the need to push false narratives from Oct 7? Biden flat out lied about dead and beheaded babies for a while. Sources within Israel are still searching for evidence of mass rape and now the NYT pulls mass rape testimonies due to a significant internal debate regarding the strength of said testimonies. Edited January 29 by Super19 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 7 hours ago, Bob Long said: So doesn't this prove Hamas doesn't give two shits about it's own people? Hamas didn't fire rockets at Tel Aviv since just after South Africa made their case at the ICJ. Just before the ruling date, Hamas stated they would abide to a ceasefire if Israel agreed. Ruling came out, Israel continued their attack, Israeli officials attend an event promoting the the permanent "migration" Palestinians in Gaza and settlers taking over the strip, more prisoners taken, flow of aid being blocked, UNRWA funding cut. International Law failed Gaza, and Hamas now resumes firing their little rockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 3 minutes ago, Super19 said: Hamas didn't fire rockets at Tel Aviv since just after South Africa made their case at the ICJ. Just before the ruling date, Hamas stated they would abide to a ceasefire if Israel agreed. Ruling came out, Israel continued their attack, Israeli officials attend an event promoting the the permanent "migration" Palestinians in Gaza and settlers taking over the strip, more prisoners taken, flow of aid being blocked, UNRWA funding cut. International Law failed Gaza, and Hamas now resumes firing their little rockets. Excuses. It's all someone else's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: Excuses. It's all someone else's fault. Some accountability of Israel is required. Right now there is near zero. On top of that there is Israeli propaganda. I look to hold the oppressors accountable first and foremost above the oppressed. Hamas deserves to be held accountable for their crimes 100% but so does Israel/IDF/Netanyahu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Super19 said: Some accountability of Israel is required. Right now there is near zero. On top of that there is Israeli propaganda. And 1400 murdered people to light this particular fire. 5 minutes ago, Super19 said: I look to hold the oppressors accountable first and foremost above the oppressed So, what would you do for Iran's leadership on that front? Iran oppresses its people, far worse than anything Israel does outside of wartime to Gazans. 5 minutes ago, Super19 said: Hamas deserves to be held accountable for their crimes 100% but so does Israel/IDF/Netanyahu. By who? Terrorists? Edited January 30 by Bob Long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 US, France, Germany: 'Against Israeli settlements in Gaza' The US, France, and Germany came out in separate condemnations of possible Israeli settlements in Gaza on Monday. White House National Security spokesman John Kirby said the White House was deeply concerned at the resettling Gaza conference held on Sunday in Jerusalem and expected Israel to reject the statements, Israeli media reported. Spoiler Reuters cited the French Foreign Ministry Spokesperson as saying, "We expect from the Israeli authorities a clear denunciation of these positions," referring to the conference. In parallel, German Ambassador to Israel, Steffen Seibert said In a statement on X, formerly Twitter, on Monday, "The German Foreign Ministry rejects all considerations about a possible Israeli resettlement of Gaza and about any form of transfer of the Palestinian population. They aggravate the current conflict and violate international law." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 How much will Israel get away with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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