Hat Trick Maker Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 7 minutes ago, Alflives said: cnn reporting: Israel claims it uncovered a Hamas tunnel beneath UN agency's Gaza headquarters From CNN’s Pierre Meilhan and Lauren Izso Israel claimed Saturday it uncovered a major Hamas tunnel hiding weapons underneath a United Nations aid agency headquarters in northern Gaza. The alleged finding took place as part of an Israeli military operation in the areas of Shati and Tel al-Hawa in northern Gaza, according to the Israel Defense Forces. The IDF claimed in a statement its troops reached a tunnel shaft located near a school operated by the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA). It did not say, however, when the discovery was made. CNN has not independently verified Israel’s claims. UNRWA head issued a quick response: The organization's commissioner-general, Philippe Lazzarini, said the agency did not know what is under its headquarters in Gaza and that “Israeli authorities have not informed UNRWA officially about the alleged tunnel,” so they are unable to address the claim further. The UN agency carries out inspections inside its premises every quarter, and the last one that took place in its Gaza premises was completed in September, according to Lazzarini. Israel's Foreign Minister Israel Katz called for Lazzarini to resign after the latest claims of a tunnel beneath UNRWA headquarters Saturday. Lazzarini did not immediately respond. Some background: Israel has longstanding issues with UNRWA, and the agency fired several employees after Israel alleged that some of its staff were involved in Hamas’ October 7 attacks of last year. The United States and at least 13 of its allies have pulled funding for the agency while investigators probe the claims. UN officials have raised alarm that defunding the organization imperils its ability to provide lifesaving aid in the enclave. Gaza is home to a sprawling underground network of tunnels used by Hamas. The group has claimed there are more than 300 miles worth of the subterranean passages. What were CNN and Israel expecting in the biggest prison in the world, skytrains and overpasses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 16 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: UNRWA Commissioner-General appears to be distancing the agency from what is about to be discovered at their main headquarters in GAZA? Isn't this like telling the cops who are about to search your house that you have no idea how the drugs n guns got in the bedroom, if any are found there soon? 2 hours ago - 31°30′N 34°27′E UNRWA Commissioner-General: The agency's employees have left the main headquarters in Gaza City since October 12, and we do not know what is underneath Next thing they will claim that this new tunnel was built after October 12th… 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 Just now, Hat Trick Maker said: What were CNN and Israel expecting in the biggest prison in the world, skytrains and overpasses? “Biggest prison in the world” my ass… 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 minute ago, Hat Trick Maker said: What were CNN and Israel expecting in the biggest prison in the world, skytrains and overpasses? 300 miles of tunnels bragged about by Hamas. They were using money intended to help the people of Gaza to dig tunnels and be terrorists. The IDF will eliminate Hamas, blow up the tunnels, and then the people of Gaza will actually het the money intended to help them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Trick Maker Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 Wouldn't have expected less from genocide/apartheid apologists. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 Just now, Hat Trick Maker said: Wouldn't have expected less from genocide/apartheid apologists. CNN? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Trick Maker Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 minute ago, Alflives said: CNN? No. Not saying their editors are all angels or have impeccable journalistic integrity, but I was referring to the "my ass" commenter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 10 minutes ago, Hat Trick Maker said: Wouldn't have expected less from genocide/apartheid apologists. Wouldn’t expect less from terrorist supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 4 minutes ago, Hat Trick Maker said: No. Not saying their editors are all angels or have impeccable journalistic integrity, but I was referring to the "my ass" commenter. Hamas has openly bragged about their tunnels. They clearly infiltrated aid relief and stole from them to support their terrorism. Canada sees Hamas as terrorists. Canada stopped aid because they know it’s used by Hamas. The trail of evil leads to Hamas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 6 minutes ago, Alflives said: Hamas has openly bragged about their tunnels. They clearly infiltrated aid relief and stole from them to support their terrorism. Canada sees Hamas as terrorists. Canada stopped aid because they know it’s used by Hamas. The trail of evil leads to Hamas. Imagine that energy spent on something peaceful and productive. I guess Hamas can grow mushrooms in the remaining tunnels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 7 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Imagine that energy spent on something peaceful and productive. I guess Hamas can grow mushrooms in the remaining tunnels. I think it was posted earlier in this thread that Hamas dug up water lines, installed by other counties to help the people of Gaza have fresh water, to build rockets to launch into Israel. The IDF needs to hunt down all the Hamas leaders and make them answer for their evil doings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Trick Maker Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Hamas has openly bragged about their tunnels. They clearly infiltrated aid relief and stole from them to support their terrorism. Canada sees Hamas as terrorists. Canada stopped aid because they know it’s used by Hamas. The trail of evil leads to Hamas. I have no problem calling them out as a terrorist group that had committed unspeakable atrocities back in last October. But I find it funny that some of us would be surprised when a cornered or caged animal decided to fight back and then put the blame on the animal. Not a perfect analogy I made, but you should get the idea. I'm no idealist. Wars are wars, people die. But if we are to have a meaningful discussion on the matter, say, about the cause of the conflict, simply identifying one side with an umbrella term like "terrorist" won't move the discussion any further or at least, in any meaningful direction. Again, most of us here seem to hold a very different perspective on this topic, so that means a lot of talking past each other, unfortunately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 minute ago, Hat Trick Maker said: I have no problem calling them out as a terrorist group that had committed unspeakable atrocities back in last October. But I find it funny that some of us would be surprised when a cornered or caged animal decided to fight back and then put the blame on the animal. Not a perfect analogy I made, but you should get the idea. I'm no idealist. Wars are wars, people die. But if we are to have a meaningful discussion on the matter, say, about the cause of the conflict, simply identifying one side with an umbrella term like "terrorist" won't move the discussion any further or at least, in any meaningful direction. Again, most of us here seem to hold a very different perspective on this topic, so that means a lot of talking past each other, unfortunately. But Hamas is a terrorist group. It’s not a label; it’s a fact. Our government says this. The war would be over if Hamas laid down their arms. Then we would see lots of countries invest in building up Gaza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hat Trick Maker Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 2 minutes ago, Alflives said: But Hamas is a terrorist group. It’s not a label; it’s a fact. Our government says this. The war would be over if Hamas laid down their arms. Then we would see lots of countries invest in building up Gaza. Again. As I have said. I do no deny their role as a terrorist group in the conflict. I just find using that notion of terrorism to explain everything in a discussion such as ours, while pertinent, is omitting a lot of geopolitical, historical and ethical contexts. Some of us are treating terrorism in our case as a cause, but not a symptom of a bigger issue at play. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 2 minutes ago, Hat Trick Maker said: I find it funny that some of us would be surprised when a cornered or caged animal decided to fight back and then put the blame on the animal. Not a perfect analogy I made, but you should get the idea. Some would tell u the Palestinians had offered peace, a treaty, at the Oslo accords. (93/94') Which was sorta true? Offered by one militant group, the PLO, who wanted to wind down. Israel was, obviously, there & part of both offers and agreements. That was immediately challenged for power violently by a newer, younger militant group Hamas. And they fought for power, Hamas opposed to a truce. Israel also immediately suffered, sorry for using the term, terrorist attacks. There was no peace. Hamas has unilaterally started wars with Israel, including Oct 7, 3 times. In 2006, Hamas was 'voted' in Gaza / West Bank as elected representatives in what remained of the administration to form a nation existed from the Oslo Accords. Free & fair elections always a concern; people 'had to vote' along the party lines of which militant group controlled your territory. At a time when Israel had unilaterally pulled out of Gaza, even forcing their citizens to leave. At the same time, another two state solution was offered for Gaza / West Bank with its capital East Jerusalem. The 5th time historically a two state solution was tendered, responded to with Palestinian initiated wars after each. The open air prison of caged animals is one of its own making. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 2 minutes ago, Hat Trick Maker said: Again. As I have said. I do no deny their role as a terrorist group in the conflict. I just find using that notion of terrorism to explain everything in a discussion such as ours, while pertinent, is omitting a lot of geopolitical, historical and ethical contexts. Some of us are treating terrorism in our case as a cause, but not a symptom of a bigger issue at play. We live (here in Canada) safe and very good lives. We don’t have neighbours wanting us dead and firing rockets into our country. We don’t have terrorists trying to kill us. And we are also free to move about and go to school and find good jobs or start a business. We don’t have another country holding us back. IMHAO we cannot truly understand what is happening in the Middle East because we haven’t lived it. But we can understand our government believes Hamas is a terrorist group. And we can understand why our government has stopped funding aid to that area because Hamas is stealing it and using it to make terror. Of course we, from our lens want peace there. But that’s from our perspective. We aren’t there. So we form opinions based on what we read. And IMHAO the region (especially the people of Gaza) will have greatly improved lives once Hamas is eliminated. It will take time to undue the brainwashing of the children, but it will happen in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 2 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said: Some would tell u the Palestinians had offered peace, a treaty, at the Oslo accords. (93/94') Which was sorta true? Offered by one militant group, the PLO, who wanted to wind down. Israel was, obviously, there & part of both offers and agreements. That was immediately challenged for power violently by a newer, younger militant group Hamas. And they fought for power, Hamas opposed to a truce. Israel also immediately suffered, sorry for using the term, terrorist attacks. There was no peace. Hamas has unilaterally started wars with Israel, including Oct 7, 3 times. In 2006, Hamas was 'voted' in Gaza / West Bank as elected representatives in what remained of the administration to form a nation existed from the Oslo Accords. Free & fair elections always a concern; people 'had to vote' along the party lines of which militant group controlled your territory. At a time when Israel had unilaterally pulled out of Gaza, even forcing their citizens to leave. At the same time, another two state solution was offered for Gaza / West Bank with its capital East Jerusalem. The 5th time historically a two state solution was tendered, responded to with Palestinian initiated wars after each. The open air prison of caged animals is one of its own making. Understood, but were these choices (to not accept a peace with a two state solution) the people of Gaza or those who represented them? Maybe, if given good government and good schools and opportunity for good lives (in time) the people of Gaza will accept a two state solution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 I find it interesting that some new characters suddenly show up in this particular thread with low number of posts and seem to spend most (if not all) of their time in the forum in this thread. Especially after some others with the same tendencies disappear. Curious… 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 6 minutes ago, Alflives said: Understood, but were these choices (to not accept a peace with a two state solution) the people of Gaza or those who represented them? Maybe, if given good government and good schools and opportunity for good lives (in time) the people of Gaza will accept a two state solution? As mentioned; free & fair elections were always a concern. Throughout the Middle East, Africa, Asia; Islamist extreme regime's, including Hamas, are led by groups that predominantly win power by the sword. Hamas was, quote / unquote elected in 2006. Political affiliations of rival parties had militant factions numbered in tens of thousands. Opponents of Hamas famously fell off buildings, as Putin's rivals seem to suffer? Leaders of each party suffered assassination attempts, at times by Mossad, more commonly by their rival parties gangs. Just 3 months ago, Hamas's rival the PA Palestinian Authority had their leader suffer an assassination attempt in West Bank. His bodyguard was killed. That was not Israel's action. Hamas happens to represent a majority population, by ethnic group. Minority groups, not just political parties are all targeted so complete control can be established. In some countries, Iran for example, the largest ethnic group controls. In Afghanistan, the Taliban is a minority but holds the most guns. Sudan, Yemen, CAR, Gaza, it's all similar. If your ethnic group controls? Chances are you are much safer! And the group gets support. It does not mean it is completely by choice. Nor is the group immune; the PLO for example was tossed from Jordan in 1972 at a cost of 25,000 Palestinian lives. Palestinians who fled Jordan, now makeup a minority but are an overwhelming factor in Hezbollah activity in Lebanon. Which has not really had peace since activists arrived fleeing? Many in Gaza were expelled from Sinai by Egypt. They had ambitions here as well historically. Not just against Israel. Ultimately these are territorial disputes in all surrounding countries, not philosophical. In the end, majority of guns rules! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, Hat Trick Maker said: I have no problem calling them out as a terrorist group that had committed unspeakable atrocities back in last October. But I find it funny that some of us would be surprised when a cornered or caged animal decided to fight back and then put the blame on the animal. Not a perfect analogy I made, but you should get the idea. I'm no idealist. Wars are wars, people die. But if we are to have a meaningful discussion on the matter, say, about the cause of the conflict, simply identifying one side with an umbrella term like "terrorist" won't move the discussion any further or at least, in any meaningful direction. Again, most of us here seem to hold a very different perspective on this topic, so that means a lot of talking past each other, unfortunately. Yes, many of the people who want justice and freedom for the Israeli people don't seem to want that for the Palestinians. I want freedom and justice for not just these two people's, but for all people we share this planet with. I haven't been able to get many of those posters to agree to the idea that the Palestinians are entitled to a nation/state of their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 2 hours ago, Alflives said: cnn reporting: Israel claims it uncovered a Hamas tunnel beneath UN agency's Gaza headquarters From CNN’s Pierre Meilhan and Lauren Izso Israel claimed Saturday it uncovered a major Hamas tunnel hiding weapons underneath a United Nations aid agency headquarters in northern Gaza. The alleged finding took place as part of an Israeli military operation in the areas of Shati and Tel al-Hawa in northern Gaza, according to the Israel Defense Forces. The IDF claimed in a statement its troops reached a tunnel shaft located near a school operated by the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA). It did not say, however, when the discovery was made. CNN has not independently verified Israel’s claims. UNRWA head issued a quick response: The organization's commissioner-general, Philippe Lazzarini, said the agency did not know what is under its headquarters in Gaza and that “Israeli authorities have not informed UNRWA officially about the alleged tunnel,” so they are unable to address the claim further. The UN agency carries out inspections inside its premises every quarter, and the last one that took place in its Gaza premises was completed in September, according to Lazzarini. Israel's Foreign Minister Israel Katz called for Lazzarini to resign after the latest claims of a tunnel beneath UNRWA headquarters Saturday. Lazzarini did not immediately respond. Some background: Israel has longstanding issues with UNRWA, and the agency fired several employees after Israel alleged that some of its staff were involved in Hamas’ October 7 attacks of last year. The United States and at least 13 of its allies have pulled funding for the agency while investigators probe the claims. UN officials have raised alarm that defunding the organization imperils its ability to provide lifesaving aid in the enclave. Gaza is home to a sprawling underground network of tunnels used by Hamas. The group has claimed there are more than 300 miles worth of the subterranean passages. well, that was nine minutes after I read UNRWA claiming it didn't know there might be a tunnel found there. huh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, Alflives said: But Hamas is a terrorist group. It’s not a label; it’s a fact. Our government says this. The war would be over if Hamas laid down their arms. Then we would see lots of countries invest in building up Gaza. Here is another fact Your government has also signed and ratified the Geneva convention. According to article 49 of the fourth Geneva convention the settlements in the west bank and are ilegal. Article 49 " The occupying power should not deport or transfer parts of its own population into the territory it occupies " So I ask you, do you agree with your government when they state " We strongly condemn the violent acts committed by extremist settlers, which are terrorising Palestinian communities. We reiterate our position that the Isreali settlements in the occupied West Bank are ilegal under international law and remind Israel of its obligations under international law, in particular article 49 of Geneva convention IV " https://www.international.gc.ca/news-nouvelles/2023/2023-12-15-statement-west-bank-declaration-cisjordanie.aspx?lang=eng Edited February 11 by Ilunga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 55 minutes ago, RomanPer said: I find it interesting that some new characters suddenly show up in this particular thread with low number of posts and seem to spend most (if not all) of their time in the forum in this thread. Especially after some others with the same tendencies disappear. Curious… I am asking you straight up Roman, do you believe the Palestinians are entitled to have a nation/state, of their own, the right to self determination, within the borders of the land that is currently known as Israel, Gaza and the occupied territories ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 2 hours ago, Hat Trick Maker said: I have no problem calling them out as a terrorist group that had committed unspeakable atrocities back in last October. But I find it funny that some of us would be surprised when a cornered or caged animal decided to fight back and then put the blame on the animal. Not a perfect analogy I made, but you should get the idea. I'm no idealist. Wars are wars, people die. But if we are to have a meaningful discussion on the matter, say, about the cause of the conflict, simply identifying one side with an umbrella term like "terrorist" won't move the discussion any further or at least, in any meaningful direction. Again, most of us here seem to hold a very different perspective on this topic, so that means a lot of talking past each other, unfortunately. But Hamas is a terrorist group. That's not in dispute. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 14 minutes ago, Ilunga said: I am asking you straight up Roman, do you believe the Palestinians are entitled to have a nation/state, of their own, the right to self determination, within the borders of the land that is currently known as Israel, Gaza and the occupied territories ? I already answered this question several times - yes, i do, if the purpose of that nation will not be to destroy Israel. I see very little evidence for it being the case, however. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.