Hamas attacking Israel

[Junkyard Dog]

12 minutes ago, The Duke said:

I see where you’re going with that, but I’m not sure I buy the parallel.  Han and Chewie didn’t topple the empire by going to an imperial—aligned planet and shooting civilians at a bus stop. 
 

This is just going to get more Palestinians killed.  Super brave of the people living safely in Canada to cheer on Hamas - which will only result in more bloodshed.  Just absolutely moronic.

 

Star Wars would be like if the Nazi's took over the world and had control for a few decades, while a rebellion was slowly brewing. 

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

18 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 I suspect you are discussing freedom rallies?

 

Thats a pathetic comparison.  They honked their own horns for how many weeks before being disbursed so law abiding citizens could go about their day. Most believe they were given a voice & kicked out when overcooked.  I define most as, well, those right wing extremists did not stop re election after all was said & done. Did they?

 

If you 'believe' in Hamas, IMO, feel free to stand on the side of the road with a sign. Not block our road.  Those engaged in funding or participating, organizing illegal events, violence in particular start in to a scale of terrorists. Deserve to be arrested. Ideally, would have been weeded out by security checks before being offered refugee or immigrant status. In Gaza, I have no sympathy for those standing guard at a multi story tower. While a Syrian rebel sells Palestinian protestors missiles to haul up to the roof.

 

Even if I believe Gaza needs to be returned? I do believe there needs to be a Palestinian solution.  That many have been mis treated! 

As long as Hamas is around there will never be a peaceful solution. You don’t negotiate with terrorists. 
 

Hamas wants to eliminate all of the Jewish people from the earth. How do you negotiate a peace settlement starting from that scenario?  
 

Also, it’s not just the Israelis who are pushing against Hamas. The Egyptians don’t want any part of them either. The border wall against Egypt is much larger than the one on the Israeli side.  Egypt is also concerned about terrorist attacks from Hamas which is why they also have a blockade. 
 

There was no blockade when the PLO was in charge. That only happened when the Hamas terrorists killed all the PLO representatives and took over and then pledged to kill all of the Jewish people. 
 

If the Palestinians want peace and want to eliminate the blockade then all they need to do is accept Israel’s existence and get rid of Hamas as their leaders. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Ryan Strome]

14 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

As long as Hamas is around there will never be a peaceful solution. You don’t negotiate with terrorists. 
 

Hamas wants to eliminate all of the Jewish people from the earth. How do you negotiate a peace settlement starting from that scenario?  
 

Also, it’s not just the Israelis who are pushing against Hamas. The Egyptians don’t want any part of them either. The border wall against Egypt is much larger than the one on the Israeli side.  Egypt is also concerned about terrorist attacks from Hamas which is why they also have a blockade. 
 

There was no blockade when the PLO was in charge. That only happened when the Hamas terrorists killed all the PLO representatives and took over and then pledged to kill all of the Jewish people. 
 

If the Palestinians want peace and want to eliminate the blockade then all they need to do is accept Israel’s existence and get rid of Hamas as their leaders. 

I don't think there was peace before Hamas was there? 

[Ryan Strome]

2 hours ago, moosehead said:

 

Why ? Canada has freedom of speech unlike Israel...... 

 

 

The Israeli army detained Farid al-Atrash for five days. He wishes it hadn’t affected him so profoundly when authorities crammed him into a crowded cell or transported him to court in a cramped metal enclosure inside a military vehicle. Thousands of Palestinians, after all, have been detained for much longer and treated worse than he was, he says.

Farid was arrested in 2016 for participating in a protest. Now, more than three years later, he’s still awaiting judgment from an Israeli military court. The charges for protesting carry a prison sentence of up to 10 years. If the verdict goes against him, the 42-year-old human rights lawyer and father of three could be back behind bars.

 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/12/17/witness-how-israel-muzzles-free-expression-palestinians

Wow steep penalties in Israel. Not much freedom?

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

We don't have freedom of speech.  If you are a right-wing extremist protesting in Ottawa you are going to be arrested.  If you are supporting a terrorist organization and protesting you should also be arrested.  Canada has deemed Hamas a terrorist organization.  Anyone in Canada who supports Hamas should be arrested and thrown in jail...

So I was going to explain to you what others already have as far as the convoys in Ottawa until I seen your next post and it got me thinking if the podcast business doesn't work out for you, maybe you should think about law. I'm pretty versed in this stuff and I would have missed that, but I think you're absolutely right that would be punishable because Canada has them listed as a terrorist group. You're very smart.

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So basically, if you are Canadian and trapped in a war zone you will need to wait until after the long weekend to get ahold of the Canadian embassy...   

 

 

This is absolute bullshit. Shameful.

1 hour ago, CBH1926 said:

Colossal failure of IDF and Mossad, very similar to September 11th.

I have followed this conflict for 40 years, no way that they managed to pull this off without help from other countries.

 

I think we are in for a bumpy ride, I foresee might bigger regional and global conflict.

Hopefully I am wrong.

 

I've been wondering today if this has a possibility of dragging Iran into the war if Israel Does go full force into Palestine.

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Sure, I get that.  Obviously, there was more to what was going on in Ottawa than in Prince George.  

 

Bottom line is that if you are supporting a terrorist organization and you live in Canada you need to be very careful.  We have laws against that...

 

Yes, supporting a terrorist organization in Canada is against the law. Canadian charities are not allowed to support terrorism, regardless of their religious or secular affiliation. If a Canadian charity is found to be supporting terrorism, it can expect to be revoked and face other consequences 1. The intentional provision of support to terrorists is a crime in Canada 2. If you suspect links to terrorism, you can report them to the RCMP’s National Security Information Line at 1-800-420-5805 or visit the National Security Information Network on the Web 2.

Again well done.

1 hour ago, CBH1926 said:

Hopefully not but with this mess in Ukraine, China eyeballing Taiwan and now Israel going after Iran eventually.

Who the fuck knows!

As an American you would be on the hook for funding three militaries while potentially having a show down with Iran.

[Elias Pettersson]

17 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

I don't think there was peace before Hamas was there? 

Actual peace no.  However, the current blockade was only put in place after Hamas took over the Gaza Strip. This seems to be the main complaint right now. It’s not just Israel that has a blockade, it is also Egypt. Both countries do not trust Hamas. 
 

The way to get rid of the blockade is to get rid of Hamas. Plain and simple. Once the terrorists are gone then you can at least commence negotiations. 
 

As for the Palestinian people, they are caught in the crossfire. Remember, there are lots of Arabs that live in Israel. They are doctors, lawyers, run companies etc.  They are even in the Israeli military. 
 

The oppression is isolated to the Gaza Strip that is controlled by Hamas. Once you get rid of the terrorists then you can start negotiations on a peace deal and a two state solution. 

[BlockerHigh]

 

[CBH1926]

1 hour ago, Ryan Strome said:

 

I've been wondering today if this has a possibility of dragging Iran into the war if Israel Does go full force into Palestine.

 

As an American you would be on the hook for funding three militaries while potentially having a show down with Iran.

I don’t see how this ends without dragging Iran into the war. Especially since Hezbollah started to talk about getting involved.

 

War is big business unfortunately, even former president Eisenhower warned us about military industrial complex back in 1961.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by CBH1926

[Junkyard Dog]

58 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Actual peace no.  However, the current blockade was only put in place after Hamas took over the Gaza Strip. This seems to be the main complaint right now. It’s not just Israel that has a blockade, it is also Egypt. Both countries do not trust Hamas. 
 

The way to get rid of the blockade is to get rid of Hamas. Plain and simple. Once the terrorists are gone then you can at least commence negotiations. 
 

As for the Palestinian people, they are caught in the crossfire. Remember, there are lots of Arabs that live in Israel. They are doctors, lawyers, run companies etc.  They are even in the Israeli military. 
 

The oppression is isolated to the Gaza Strip that is controlled by Hamas. Once you get rid of the terrorists then you can start negotiations on a peace deal and a two state solution. 

 

Peace is impossible with Hamas and Israel is gonna have retribution on a massive scale.

 

Getting rid of Hamas will be hard. It is unfortunate but they have a mouth to one ear of the Palestinian people. The more this war will go on the more Palestinians may feel an urged to join Hamas, especially after Israel dishes out its wrath. Hate breeds hate, blood for blood. 

 

Things are gonna get much more bloody in this conflict of hate. The innocents will suffer. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Junkyard Dog

[CBH1926]

Spoiler

Saw this earlier, it was posted on Telegram, it looks like after they shot the soldiers they beheaded them.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

The last time Israel got caught with its pants down was the Yom Kippur War. Hamas attacked on the 50th anniversary of that war.

 

Back then Israel was very close to using Nuclear weapons just 3 days into the war. These advances and the fear of a nuclear war back then led the United States to supply its ally with material including airplanes, helicopters, tanks, missile systems, artillery and ammunition to replace its conventional losses. In response, Moscow began supplying the same to Egypt and Syria.

 

The US today is now sending their biggest aircraft carrier over in support of Israel with plans on supplying munitions and other military supplies...

 

Is it me or is it starting to feel cold. 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Junkyard Dog

[Ilunga]

2 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 I suspect you are discussing freedom rallies?

 

Thats a pathetic comparison.  They honked their own horns for how many weeks before being disbursed so law abiding citizens could go about their day. Most believe they were given a voice & kicked out when overcooked.  I define most as, well, those right wing extremists did not stop re election after all was said & done. Did they?

 

If you 'believe' in Hamas, IMO, feel free to stand on the side of the road with a sign. Not block our road.  Those engaged in funding or participating, organizing illegal events, violence in particular start in to a scale of terrorists. Deserve to be arrested. Ideally, would have been weeded out by security checks before being offered refugee or immigrant status. In Gaza, I have no sympathy for those standing guard at a multi story tower. While a Syrian rebel sells Palestinian protestors missiles to haul up to the roof.

 

Even if I believe Gaza needs to be returned? I do believe there needs to be a Palestinian solution.  That many have been mis treated! 

 

I never like hearing that term " solution " in relation to a group/ race of people.

 

It always reminds me of the final solution. 

 

Remember when Howard introduced the " Pacific solution " ? 

 

The shame still burns over 20 years later.

 

[Ilunga]

On 10/8/2023 at 2:13 PM, Canuck Surfer said:

And people thought Putin was ugly. 

 

Wanted to know why there was no peace in Yemen, the Middle East.

 

Putin is ugly.  In reality he is re-teaching the world to execute war starting with civilians.

 

Civilian panic.

 

Like C'mon brother, Putin didn't invent war or targeting/killing civilians.

 

My father lived through the firebombing of Coventry, a deliberate act to kill civilians. 

The British retaliated later in the war, fire bombing Frankfurt.

 

Between 1965 - 75 he America dropped over twice the amount  of  bombs on Vietnam- Operation Rolling Thunder.

Estimates of between 30,000 to over 180,000 civilians killed.

 

Civilians have always been the real casualties of war, however WW1 they became actual targets.

[Junkyard Dog]

3 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Like C'mon brother, Putin didn't invent war or targeting/killing civilians.

 

My father lived through the firebombing of Coventry, a deliberate act to kill civilians. 

The British retaliated later in the war, fire bombing Frankfurt.

 

Between 1965 - 75 he America dropped over twice the amount  of  bombs on Vietnam- Operation Rolling Thunder.

Estimates of between 30,000 to over 180,000 civilians killed.

 

Civilians have always been the real casualties of war, however WW1 they became actual targets.

 

Modern technology and advancements in weaponry have made it easier as well.

 

Even if you somehow/someway fuck up/make a mistake you do so catastrophically(Drone strikes in particular).

[Mac]

I hope Israel starts dropping nukes on Iran...anything short of that is useless.

[Ilunga]

14 hours ago, Gurn said:

2023

Humans

still 

shooting

humans

 

As a species, we seem to have learned fuck all.

Won't be any different in another 20 years.

 

Why do you think we will ever change ?

 

As I keep banging on, until we start viewing each other as fellow human beings instead of a group of disparate societies, nothing will ever change.

 

F#ck nationalism 

[Canuck Surfer]

This is gross

 

https://youtu.be/-81FeWzutDU

 

[Canuck Surfer]

[Canuck Surfer]

5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

As long as Hamas is around there will never be a peaceful solution. You don’t negotiate with terrorists. 

 

What has that got to do with your comment regarding freedom rally truckers in Ottawa? Free speech??? I was sim ply calling bullsh!t.  

 

Who suggested negotiating with terrorists...

 

 

I propose the rule of law.  Which clearly has to call to task Hamas attacks in Israel. My quotes also ask to arrest those who fund, organize & execute these events.   

[Canuck Surfer]

2 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

Like C'mon brother, Putin didn't invent war or targeting/killing civilians.

 

My father lived through the firebombing of Coventry, a deliberate act to kill civilians. 

The British retaliated later in the war, fire bombing Frankfurt.

 

Between 1965 - 75 he America dropped over twice the amount  of  bombs on Vietnam- Operation Rolling Thunder.

Estimates of between 30,000 to over 180,000 civilians killed.

 

Civilians have always been the real casualties of war, however WW1 they became actual targets.

 

I have previously made clear I vehemently opposed war in Vietnam, Cambodia, protested war in Iraq. I have no solution for fire bombing or nuking cities as occured? I wish Kissinger was in jail. No words, no support.  I did not make the decision to bomb Dresden, Coventry. Hitler was a dictator like Putin IMO. Worse, probably? Not that scale not accomplished in spite of best efforts, makes Putin's crimes acceptable.  

 

Putin is an autocratic leader slaughtering tens of thousands of people.  Reigning terror now.  Middle Eastern terrorists have been & are commanded by similar warlords. Many / most supported or in alliance by Putin.  Do we simply March to Moscow, Tehran, Damascas. Did they get provoked by George Bush? I do wish he was in jail also. Hamas by Bibi? There have been events, displays of power. I wish Shareen Abu Aqleh's murder was investigated, tried. That people did not March through holy sites desecrating and injuring locals. 16 year old boys throwing rocks shot dead. However, I am painfully aware to judge who is victim & who is stirring. At this moment Ukraine is under attack, Israel is under attack. 5000 missiles were launched by Hamas, militia riding powered gliders mowed down civilians, hundreds of them. Dragging victims through the streets by the hair, women, children.  Who are being found dead.

 

While they are throwing missiles, missiles will be fired back to defend. 

 

 

 

 

[Ilunga]

2 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

I have previously made clear I vehemently opposed war in Vietnam, Cambodia, protested war in Iraq. I have no solution for fire bombing or nuking cities as occured? I wish Kissinger was in jail. No words, no support.  I did not make the decision to bomb Dresden, Coventry. Hitler was a dictator like Putin IMO. Worse, probably? Not that scale not accomplished in spite of best efforts, makes Putin's crimes acceptable.  

 

Putin is an autocratic leader slaughtering tens of thousands of people.  Reigning terror now.  Middle Eastern terrorists have been & are commanded by similar warlords. Many / most supported or in alliance by Putin.  Do we simply March to Moscow, Tehran, Damascas. Did they get provoked by George Bush? I do wish he was in jail also. Hamas by Bibi? There have been events, displays of power. I wish Shareen Abu Aqleh's murder was investigated, tried. That people did not March through holy sites desecrating and injuring locals. 16 year old boys throwing rocks shot dead. However, I am painfully aware to judge who is victim & who is stirring. At this moment Ukraine is under attack, Israel is under attack. 5000 missiles were launched by Hamas, militia riding powered gliders mowed down civilians, hundreds of them. Dragging victims through the streets by the hair, women, children.  Who are being found dead.

 

While they are throwing missiles, missiles will be fired back to defend. 

 

 

 

 

 

I merely replied to your comment that is Putin re teaching the world to execute war starting with civilians.

Putin is not re teaching, the world has been doing that since WW1. 

 

As I stated, my father lived through the fire bombing of Coventry.

When he took me there over 30 years later I could still see damage that was done.

 

Of course missiles will be thrown back.

The circle of hatred will continue.

We are a stupid species that continues to make the same mistakes. 

There always seems to be a certain sort of stupid human being that can be convinced to kill his fellow human being for a stupid reason.

 

 

 

[NucksRuleYou]

22 hours ago, Jester13 said:

I don't buy this stance. Indigenous peoples in Canada have experienced the same: colonialists stole their lands, their children, their autonomy. But they never turned into terrorists and created carnage like Hamas. They instead chose the peace and politics path and incrementally have regained their cultures and power in society - granted, there is still so much further to go, but Hannah Arendt once said, "You can't fight violence with violence." 

 

Israelis have been the most persecuted people in human history, yet antisemitism still remains and they get blamed again when something like this happens. Are Israelis teaching Palestinian children to hate them? Are Israelis the ones giving arms to Hamas?

 

I'm centre-left politically, and blaming Israel for these attacks and all the violence is leftist bullshit.

 

What a stupid take! The comparison with the indigenous people doesn't work at all. Even if the indigenous people wanted to become terrorists, what the fuck would they be able to do? They had no access to military grade weapons, and they were spread out all across the country in small groups, so they couldn't really mobilize, either. They "chose" peace and integration with the rest of the country because they had no choice.

Edited October 9, 2023 by NucksRuleYou

[NucksRuleYou]

6 hours ago, BlockerHigh said:

 

 

Really? You're going to post something from some loser who thinks Palestine should be eliminated?

[Jester13]

2 hours ago, NucksRuleYou said:

 

What a stupid take! The comparison with the indigenous people doesn't work at all. Even if the indigenous people wanted to become terrorists, what the fuck would they be able to do? They had no access to military grade weapons, and they were spread out all across the country in small groups, so they couldn't really mobilize, either. They "chose" peace and integration with the rest of the country because they had no choice.

Were you alive during the Oka Crisis? You really think over decades and decades of conflict that Indigenous peoples in Canada couldn't have continued to accrue arms and cause havoc and killings? 

[Heretic]

Just sad...for just about everyone knows, Jews are the genetic brothers of Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese.  

 

 

[Boudrias]

5 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

IMHO this is why Hamas attacked Israel. A diplomatic rapprochement between Israel and Saudi Arabia is Tehran's worst nightmare. The Palestinians have been pawns in the ME for decades. Failure to reach a peaceful settlement rests largely with Israel's neighbors. The West encourages Israel to 'make peace' yet any error in their assessment results in death and destruction of the state of Israel. Israel has to have guarantees based on their military strength to defend themselves if needed. 

 

The threat to Iran if diplomatic peace is achieved between Israel and the Saudis is military but also economic. Israel offers Saudi Arabia a land bridge to the Mediterranean. More importantly is the military concern that Iran will have a bomb in the near future. Israel and SA will have to prevent that from ever happening. It likely means a military strike in the near future. Tehran has few friends and even their own people have fought in the streets to remove the mullahs. I expect Israel to remove Gaza as a threat and exact some revenge there. Right or wrong that is how the ME works. Once that is accomplished and Lebanon does not get involved the gloves will be off with Iran. 

 

I expect some pretty horrific stuff to go down in the near future in the ME. Israel has not absorbed the full impact yet as to what actually happened. Having any confidence that Israel's actions will be somewhat muted is not realistic. Life in the ME can be hard for many. To a large extent Israel will have a free reign on how it responds to this attack. I highly doubt there will be a groundswell of support for Hamas or the Palestinians as a whole. They have been useful proxies in the past but those days are ending.