Ryan Strome Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 I'm willing to bet that the average Palestinian won't get any groceries, electricity or medicine, but I bet you Hamas members all have that stuff in stockpile hidden away underground. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Amazing speech by the son of one of the founders of Hamas. Worth a listen when you have some time and explains alot. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: I'm willing to bet that the average Palestinian won't get any groceries, electricity or medicine, but I bet you Hamas members all have that stuff in stockpile hidden away underground. Pretty sure targeting civilians with collective punishment is a War Crime by international standard ....... in response to war crimes committed by Hamas. Both sides in this conflict are horrific. So thankful i live in Canada where we are trying hard to reconcile the dark parts of our past history ( truth and reconcilation ) Edited October 10, 2023 by moosehead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, moosehead said: Pretty sure targeting civilians with collective punishment is a War Crime by international standard ....... in response to war crimes committed by Hamas. Both sides in this conflict are horrific. Hamas isn't part of any international standards group and countries like Canada Want to see the death and destruction of Hamas anyways. So I don't really think that they stand up for any sort of decency. Edited October 10, 2023 by Ryan Strome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 minute ago, moosehead said: Pretty sure targeting civilians with collective punishment is a War Crime by international standard ....... in response to war crimes committed by Hamas. Both sides in this conflict are horrific. Israel isn’t targeting Palestinians though. That’s the difference. Also, HAMAS, isn’t any kind of political party that can be detained and brought up for war crimes. They’re a terrorist group at this point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Just now, Sharpshooter said: Israel isn’t targeting Palestinians though. That’s the difference. Also, HAMAS, isn’t any kind of political party that can be detained and brought up for war crimes. They’re a terrorist group at this point. 1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said: Hamas isn't part of any international standards group and countries like Canada Want to see the death and destruction of Hamas anyways. So I don't really think that they stand up for any sort of decency. Exactly what I said! The issue though is the average Palestinian will pay the price think we agree on that. Hamas probably has stockpiles of groceries and medicine given to them from Iran. So they will be fine but kids and women and the elderly will suffer. Pretty pathetic as a human race. This has been going on for so long with all the countries in the world and we can't solve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duke Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 25 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: I'm willing to bet that the average Palestinian won't get any groceries, electricity or medicine, but I bet you Hamas members all have that stuff in stockpile hidden away underground. Hamas saying the attacks are because of attacks on civilians, then proceed to hide behind civilians… after attacking civilians. Just a bunch of cowards. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 I would support heavy heavy sanctions to Russian levels on iran ASAP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said: Israel isn’t targeting Palestinians though. Really. So i guess this isn't true... Israel is bombing the Hamas-run Gaza Strip, ordering a “complete siege” with no electricity, fuel or food allowed inside, as they hunt down the Palestinian militants responsible for the massive terror attack that left hundreds dead. Lester Holt anchors from Tel Aviv with the latest reporting. … 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, moosehead said: Really. So i guess this isn't true... Israel is bombing the Hamas-run Gaza Strip, ordering a “complete siege” with no electricity, fuel or food allowed inside, as they hunt down the Palestinian militants responsible for the massive terror attack that left hundreds dead. Lester Holt anchors from Tel Aviv with the latest reporting. … Israel isn’t targeting Palestinian civilians with their military apparatus. HAMAS is. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said: Israel isn’t targeting Palestinians though. That’s the difference. Also, HAMAS, isn’t any kind of political party that can be detained and brought up for war crimes. They’re a terrorist group at this point. Both sides in this conflict are horrible. No appreciation for human life. The United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) said late Monday its emergency shelters in Gaza are at 90% capacity with more than 137,000 people taking cover from Israeli strikes. The agency said 83 UNRWA schools have been turned into shelters. It said that one UN school housing displaced families was "directly hit," without giving further details. It's unknown how many people were in the shelter at the time of the attack. https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-gaza-attack-10-09-23/index.html Edited October 10, 2023 by moosehead 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 9 minutes ago, moosehead said: Really. So i guess this isn't true... Israel is bombing the Hamas-run Gaza Strip, ordering a “complete siege” with no electricity, fuel or food allowed inside, as they hunt down the Palestinian militants responsible for the massive terror attack that left hundreds dead. Lester Holt anchors from Tel Aviv with the latest reporting. … When HAMAS uses its own people as human shields, they know what they’re doing. They’re a terrorist group that is looking at their own survival first and foremost. Their own people are collateral damage, used to recruit new fighters. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlockerHigh Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 On 10/7/2023 at 11:01 PM, eeeeeeeeergh said: i get your point but a pragmatic solution means someone needs to compromise what do palestinians have left to compromise with? they have nothing left to give. theyve lost their land, and more of the west bank is being settled everyday. They have nothing that Israel wants, other than to "stop fighting". Its not like the palestinians are sitting on any bargaining chips they can trade with. So the pragmatic solution/compromise is probably something like: ceasefire in exchange for a week of peace talks, and ceasefire continues if theres a settlement freeze and complete non-military goods are allowed to be imported into gaza. the sad thing is - hamas knew exactly how israel was going to respond, and its going to be a massive disproportionate response. Israel is probably going to carpet bomb the living daylights out of Gaza and accelerate even more settlements. My guess is Hamas is banking on the response sparking some moral outrage from the rest of the world which might force Israel back to the table. Either way, a lot of people are going to die Both sides have to compromise to end wars that’s how it works. Both sides don’t get everything they want, that’s how compromise works the issue here is neither side is willing to compromise given the history because neither side is will to accept both sides have been wrong 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlockerHigh Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said: Israel isn’t targeting Palestinian civilians with their military apparatus. HAMAS is. Sure but that’s an oversimplification The blockades have hurt 2 mil people for decades land has been taken and at the same time Hamas has been a terrorist to suggest one side is to blame is silly both are 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) The more I think about this, I think that they're going to have the absolute conquering of the Gaza strip. It will turn into probably 50 years of stationed Israeli troops there that'll come under random attacks often. Peaceful two-state solution would be ideal, but the more I think about it it seems like it would be unlikely that Netanyahu can allow Hamas to ever exist again. I guess I see now why so many writers are saying it's going to get really bad before it gets better. Edited October 10, 2023 by Ryan Strome 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said: The more I think about this, I think that they're going to have the absolute conquering of the Gaza strip. It will turn into probably 50 years of stationed Israeli troops. There that'll come under random attacks often. Peaceful two-state solution would be ideal, but the more I think about it it seems like it would be unlikely that Netanyahu can allow Hamas to ever exist again. I guess I see now why so many writers are saying it's going to get really bad before it gets better. 4 minutes ago, BlockerHigh said: Sure but that’s an oversimplification The blockades have hurt 2 mil people for decades land has been taken and at the same time Hamas has been a terrorist to suggest one side is to blame is silly both are Canadians like to over simplify things and blame one side. Fact is both sides are to blame in this 70 - 100 year year conflict. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Just now, BlockerHigh said: Sure but that’s an oversimplification The blockades have hurt 2 mil people for decades land has been taken and at the same time Hamas has been a terrorist to suggest one side is to blame is silly both are Israel doesn’t have clean hands. I agree wholeheartedly. The international community is culpable as well. The average Palestinian is just fodder for their politics. I get it. I agree. A movie that has so many great quotes that are applicable to this situation is Kingdom of Heaven. Who is to blame? No one, everyone. What is it worth? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Yes he was shouting at them and telling them they were terrorists and supporting the killing of innocent women and children. They were laughing back at him. If the protests are legal then the protesting of the protesters should be legal too. What law did he break? Breach of peace? You can arrest anyone for a breach of peace if they are yelling on the street. Happens every day in Vancouver. Where those people celebrating Hamas or were they protesting Gaza getting bombed? If it's the latter then that guy is wrong to mess with them. Edited October 10, 2023 by Playoff Beered 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeeeeeergh Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 11 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said: Israel isn’t targeting Palestinians though. That’s the difference. Also, HAMAS, isn’t any kind of political party that can be detained and brought up for war crimes. They’re a terrorist group at this point. Tbh the reason the issue makes my blood boil so much is the IDF has targeted civilians. It was the original tactic used to steal homes from the locals (see Deir Yassin massacre as an example) and up until 2002, using human shields was a literal policy of the IDF (public knowledge, can Google to verify). The weapons used (air strikes, drones, etc) on residential buildings and civilians are chosen because, not in spite of, the collateral damage they cause. See the choice to use white phosphorous instead of less war-crimey smokescreen options. Israel then turns around and says they had to flatten a building because a hamas member lived in that building. This is the reality that friends of mine have lived under for the past 20 years. All either have a relative friends who have had a child gunned down by an IDF soldier, or died in an airstrike. Some even die in refugee camps, where they currently live because they were cleansed from their homes in 1948 to make way for the state of Israel. 2 million people who can never go home, because Europeans and North Americans came in and declared the land their own. Half live in an open air prison (Gaza) and half live in apartheid conditions (the West Bank, in cities like Hebron). To put this in context: my Jewish wife who was not born in Israel, can go get Israeli citizenship and make a home there. My best whose family lives in Hebron, has to take a separate road from Israeli settlers to go home, enforced by the IDF. 700k people who fled actual terrorism by Irgun (the organization that founded the state of Israel, did Deir Yassin, etc) cannot go back to where they came from because it’s now called Israel. My wife on the other hand, who has no connection to the Middle East at all other than Jewish heritage can go get a passport and settle in those lands. Murdering civilians is never ok. Hamas deserves to be wiped out for what they did. There will however be no end to violence until the original and continuing injustices are addressed. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeeeeeergh Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 15 minutes ago, BlockerHigh said: Both sides have to compromise to end wars that’s how it works. Both sides don’t get everything they want, that’s how compromise works the issue here is neither side is willing to compromise given the history because neither side is will to accept both sides have been wrong Normally I’d agree but what does Palestine have left to compromise with? Like what specifically do they have that they can give Israel in a compromise/negotiation? as far as I know it’s nothing. They have nothing Israel wants. Israel already got all the land it wanted, and freely takes more as desired (ongoing settlement building in the West Bank). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 7 minutes ago, moosehead said: Canadians like to over simplify things and blame one side. Fact is both sides are to blame in this 70 - 100 year year conflict. Fact is that one side just killed 900 people from the other side. So, you need to stay up to date on what's happening versus using the everyone is bad and is to blame card. This was the worst attack in Israel's history and now they have every right to defend themselves. By saying that the Israeli's are bombing Palestinians you are using a whataboutism and it's not really helping the situation. We all know what Hamas is capable of and the tv is all propaganda. For all we know Hamas is starving its own people and using them as human shields... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said: Where those people celebrating Hamas or were they protesting Gaza getting bombed? If it's the latter then that guy is wrong to mess with them. Couldn't tell, the guy was screaming too loud... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 21 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said: Israel isn’t targeting Palestinian civilians with their military apparatus. HAMAS is. Except they literally are… They are bombarding the entire area and flattening apartment buildings. It is one of the most densely populated regions on the planet. Dropping bombs is targeting civilians. Cutting off electricity, food, medicine, and making sure their hospitals can’t function while at the same time killing and injuring thousands of civilians is targeting civilians. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 32 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: I would support heavy heavy sanctions to Russian levels on iran ASAP Those should have been implemented as soon as Iran decided to supply the orcs with drones and missiles. I'd prefer precision strikes against their nuclear research facilities, the drone factories, and their government buildings to accompany the sanctions at this point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Fact is that one side just killed 900 people from the other side. So, you need to stay up to date on what's happening versus using the everyone is bad and is to blame card. This was the worst attack in Israel's history and now they have every right to defend themselves. By saying that the Israeli's are bombing Palestinians you are using a whataboutism and it's not really helping the situation. We all know what Hamas is capable of and the tv is all propaganda. For all we know Hamas is starving its own people and using them as human shields... Yes Hamas terrorists have killed over 900 innocent civilians. This is horrific. Now we will see Israel kill likely 5000 innocent palestinians civilians. This conflict is disgusting. A peaceful compromise needs to be negotiated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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