Hamas attacking Israel

[Odd.]

8 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

You actually think that the IDF is specifically targeting kids? 

Yes they have. Considerable amount of times. Hospitals “dubbed Hamas base” as justification.

[eeeeeeeeergh]

19 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I guess they should have gotten it in writing then.  Verbal promises don't really hold up in court...

Here you go, in writing

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMahon–Hussein_Correspondence#:~:text=The McMahon–Hussein Correspondence is,Revolt against the Ottoman Empire.

[eeeeeeeeergh]

8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

It's not that I would be okay with the offer, it's that 38% is better than zero which is where this is headed unfortunately.  People always try to negotiate more than they are offered, but if they end up getting less than the original offer they can't really complain.  

 

At the end of the day, there needs to be a two-state solution.  I am by no means advocating that the Palestinians should be put on the street homeless.  Serious negotiations need to take place.  However, that can only happen when the terrorists are eliminated.  That make take awhile.  Hamas isn't going to go down without a fight.  This is their Jihad.  They will take as many people as possible with them before they are eliminated from this earth...

okay so just so i understand - you wouldn’t have been ok with the offer, but they should have been, in 1948? 
 

hamas isn’t the first terrorist organization in Palestine, it won’t be the last. If you wipe them out by blowing up apartment buildings, and keep building settlements in the West Bank, guess what comes next?

 

the PLO renounced violence as demanded by the Palestinian people, to enter negotiations with Israel. In that time, Israel kept building settlements, kept the occupation, kept apartheid conditions, and refused to let anyone who was driven from their homes come back to their town.

 

 

The reason Hamas exists today is because the PLO choosing peace failed, and the intl community DGAF about the Palestinian people. 

[24K]

28 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

 

IDK that would probably be one of the most heinous things US would have ever done in it's foreign history if discovered. And that would be saying something. Playing two sides of a conflict for decades though that has resulted in death/hate. They would have blood on their hands and it would probably end up pushing Israel into Putin's arms.

 

They would gain more to lose. 

Well I didn't mean US gonvernment is doing it on purpose. More that the arms dealers are profiting from it by having a third neutral party like the Saudis buying arms legitimately and then those funneled towards others without explicit consent or knowledge of the US. 

 

It is well known some of these terrorist organizations have their hands on US made weapons and obtained them one way or another. Sometimes actually from the US gonvernment. Al Queda and Taliban says hi on that front. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by 24K

[Junkyard Dog]

Just now, 24K said:

Well I didn't mean US gonvernment is doing it on purpose. More that the arms dealers are profiting from it by having a third neutral party like the Saudis buying arms legitimately and then those funneled towards others without explicit consent or knowledge of the US. 

 

It is well known some of these terrorist organizations have their hands on US made weapons and obtained them one way or another. Sometimes actually from the US gonvernment. Al Queda, Talisman, and Cuba says hi on that front. 

 

Ahh I see what you mean.

[24K]

33 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I guess they should have gotten it in writing then.  Verbal promises don't really hold up in court...

Dude it is the British. The paper they written it on is not even worth a piece of toilet paper.

 

Just ask our aboriginals. 

[Playoff Beered]

19 minutes ago, Odd. said:

Yes they have. Considerable amount of times. Hospitals “dubbed Hamas base” as justification.

 

Got any links to that?

[Ilunga]

2 hours ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Except that Hamas has targeted children specifically, the IDF has never specifically targeted children. Saying they are both violating the rights of children and causing injury and death is true but surely you see there's a difference there?

 

Really ? 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/24/global-outcry-over-israels-targeting-of-palestinian-children

 

https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/12/1080402

 

Both sides have targeted women and children. 

 

And it's not just killing and wounding them, Palestinian women and children are forced to live in ghetto like conditions.

[24K]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

It's not that I would be okay with the offer, it's that 38% is better than zero which is where this is headed unfortunately.  People always try to negotiate more than they are offered, but if they end up getting less than the original offer they can't really complain.  

 

At the end of the day, there needs to be a two-state solution.  I am by no means advocating that the Palestinians should be put on the street homeless.  Serious negotiations need to take place.  However, that can only happen when the terrorists are eliminated.  That make take awhile.  Hamas isn't going to go down without a fight.  This is their Jihad.  They will take as many people as possible with them before they are eliminated from this earth...

Like eeeeeergh have said. Hamas ain't the only team in town that represents Palestinians. They have the PLO that they could negotiate with and so far Israel have not done so in any sort of good faith. There is also in no world where the current PLO is considered a terrorist organization. 

 

Israel have failed to conduct negotiation and saying they can't negotiate about plalestine because of Hamas being terrorist is a false crutch.The PLO arguably have more international legitimacy and standing than Hamas. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by 24K

[Playoff Beered]

2 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

Really ? 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/24/global-outcry-over-israels-targeting-of-palestinian-children

 

https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/12/1080402

 

Both sides have targeted women and children. 

 

And it's not just killing and wounding them, Palestinian women and children are forced to live in ghetto like conditions.

 

Targeting specifically and collateral are two different things.

[Odd.]

3 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Targeting specifically and collateral are two different things.

Collateral? 

 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/28/west-bank-spike-israeli-killings-palestinian-children

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/8/24/global-outcry-over-israels-targeting-of-palestinian-children
 

I could link 50 articles if I had the time.

[Ilunga]

1 minute ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Targeting specifically and collateral are two different things.

 

Didn't you read the articles ?

 

Those kids were targeted.

But hey the parents were talking sh!t, right ?

 

Are you a parent ?

I am and I know this would be my worst nightmare.

 

You are totally naive if you don't believe Isreali soldiers have not targeted children in the last few decades of this conflict.

 

 

[moosehead]

2 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

Catch up on the definition of "apartheid"

 

Catch up on the definition of a free and tolerant society.   Also, while you are at it catch up on oppression and ethnic cleansing...

[Odd.]

It’s not just Palestine. Israel is and has been involved and responsible for oppression throughout history all over the globe.

 

off the top my head: funding the Hutu militia to commit one the worst genocides in our history in Rwanda. Using Israel made weapons.

 

Strong allies to the South African apartheid regime. Funded again Israel made weapons and armoury to participate in the ethnic cleansing of the native black people. Supporting Zionist leaders who put Nelson Mandela to life in prison and actively engaged in propaganda to affectively keep apartheid alive.

 

The Sebrenica genocide. Israel trained and again provided weaponry to Serbian forces to exterminate my people in Bosnia. Participated in an ethnic cleansing of 500000 Bosnian-Croatians. They harboured war criminals who were involved in mass rapes and torture and gave them israeli citizenship.

 

I am anti Zionist. Throughout history Israel has continued to be on the wrong side of history. Fuck that

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Odd.

[Alflives]

57 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

There are no ‘clean hands’. 
 

That’s the part that ‘we’ sometimes have a hard time wrapping ‘our’ heads around. 

Reminds me of an old Star Trek episode. ‘Let That Be Your Last Battlefield’. 
 

 

I believe it’s prescient, especially today. 

Didn’t that episode end with the two last survivors of their peoples still trying to kill each other? 

[moosehead]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Land lost through war isn't seized, it is conquered...

 

I doubt Ukraine feels like you do......

[Odd.]

That said I am 100% against what Hamas did and they are equally terrible. Innocent children and women have been brutally murdered by both sides. It is truly shameful. I hate Hamas with passion and shame on anyone who are pro Hamas whether you hate Israel or not.

[Ilunga]

2 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Exactly.  There's a huge difference between collateral damage from a bomb and beheading babies.

 

PB's claims have already been refuted.

Isreali soldiers have targeted children in this conflict. 

 

From memory you are not a parent ?

 

F#ck your collateral damage.

If my son was killed by a bomb or beheaded by some lunatic I would not be questioning his form of death, I would be feeling the worst pain imaginable.

[The Lock]

The only thing I feel I can say about this is the whole thing sucks. I'm not going to even pretend I remotely know everything in this; nor do I even have a side.

 

I feel for the families who are forced to be caught up in this. They seem to be the ones who lose the most unfortunately.

[Odd.]

2 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

Catch up on the definition of "apartheid"

 You don’t really care about others, as long as they’re Zionist. 

[Ilunga]

3 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

I doubt Ukraine feels like you do......

 

F#ckin right on Brother.

The double standard is unbelievable.

[Alflives]

24 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Targeting specifically and collateral are two different things.

Yup. HAMAS goes out to kill innocents. They could have targeted only soldiers, but instead chose to murder innocents. Very cowardly. 

[The Lock]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Land lost through war isn't seized, it is conquered...

 

Land conquered happens after a war when the treaty is signed, and highly dependent of the circumstances.

 

During a war, it's seized.

 

The Israeli-Palestine conflict has been happening for how long now? Hard to call what's even be conquered in that.

[Elias Pettersson]

27 minutes ago, Odd. said:

Collateral? 

 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/28/west-bank-spike-israeli-killings-palestinian-children

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/8/24/global-outcry-over-israels-targeting-of-palestinian-children
 

I could link 50 articles if I had the time.

In the other cases investigated, the security forces killed boys after they had joined other youths confronting Israeli forces with stones, Molotov cocktails, or fireworks.

 

Sounds like self defence to me. Is this all you got?  How about the babies?  How many have they killed and beheaded?  

[Playoff Beered]

21 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

Didn't you read the articles ?

 

Those kids were targeted.

But hey the parents were talking sh!t, right ?

 

Are you a parent ?

I am and I know this would be my worst nightmare.

 

You are totally naive if you don't believe Isreali soldiers have not targeted children in the last few decades of this conflict.

 

Yes I read the articles.

 

Yes those kids where killed after being targeted in the moment.

Fuck off with the parents talking shit part.

 

Yes I have kids.

 

I am aware that IDF have done atrocious things to the Palestinians. However I am also confident that at no time senior Israeli commanders have sat around and made plans to specifically kill children and civilians. Hamas has done exactly that though. Fighting terrorists that use civilians as shields gets messy.