Hamas attacking Israel

[Bob Long]

Just now, RomanPer said:

 

When Israel left Gaza in 2005, it left behind booming agricultural businesses, including one of the world's largest producers of flowers (they were exporting tulips to event to Holland). Guess what happened with all those greenhouses and other agricultural facilities after the withdrawal? You guessed it, they were immediately destroyed by the new regime. But now we have to believe half truth from some British university without clear understanding of funding sources for this "study"  

 

I'm just wondering how many "cides" Israel is going to get blamed for. I guess genocide has run its course, so now some in the media are trying to rile up the environmentalists against Israel? dunno. 

 

At least its less offensive. 

 

[Gurn]

1 minute vid at link

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/ap-explains-israel-s-decision-to-bar-al-jazeera/vi-BB1lRoDt?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=fa73b80e38ed44038602ca192b4ec1ad&ei=24

AP journalist Jon Gambrell explains the situation surrounding Israel's order to bar Al Jazeera from working in the country amid the Israel-Hamas war in the Gaza Strip

[RomanPer]

2 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

I'm just wondering how many "cides" Israel is going to get blamed for. I guess genocide has run its course, so now some in the media are trying to rile up the environmentalists against Israel? dunno. 

 

At least its less offensive. 

 

 

Like I said - "no Jews - no news"

[Ilunga]

9 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

I just learned about ecocide. Just wondering what other ones to expect.

 

As a farmer Jim, I can tell you the term ecocide has been around a while. 

 

The term was coined by Professor Arthur. W. Galston in 1970.

https://ecocidelaw.com/history/

 

I became aware of it when it was used to describe what is happening in regards to the Amazonian rainforest. 

 

This is nothing to joke about.

 

The loss of Arable land.

 

Earth has lost a third of arable land in last 40 years, scientists say "

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/dec/02/arable-land-soil-food-security-shortage

 

Soil erosion 

 

" Why soil is disappearing from farms.

 

https://www.bbc.com/future/bespoke/follow-the-food/why-soil-is-disappearing-from-farms/

 

Then there are farming techniques themselves. 

 

" The number of worlds farms to half by 2100 "

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/05/230516115544.htm

 

Now while many of those farms will consolidate, that article details how this is bad for bio diversity. 

 

And as a farmer this hits hard 

" But those future farm workers may need more support as suicide rates in the agriculture industry are among the highest rates by occupation in the US "

 

 

We can get by without flowers, and the work you do, however if we don't eat, we don't shit, we die. 

 

In regards to flowers, do you know what the first recorded speculative bubble or asset bubble in history was ?

 

The tulip bulb boom, 1634 - 37.

[Sabrefan1]

Outrage erupts as 'violent' leader of Columbia University's anti-Israel protest identified as son of millionaire ad executives

 

He's 40, not a student, lives in a multi-million dollar home, and is married to a model with whom he's raising 2 kids with.  Also, has been arrested for violently protesting other issue(s) in the past.

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/outrage-erupts-as-violent-leader-of-columbia-university-s-anti-israel-protest-identified-as-son-of-millionaire-ad-executives/ar-BB1lQuEk?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=b3fdaa114a954bdf9eed648b8da9ac76&ei=25

[Optimist Prime]

7 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

Outrage erupts as 'violent' leader of Columbia University's anti-Israel protest identified as son of millionaire ad executives

 

He's 40, not a student, lives in a multi-million dollar home, and is married to a model with whom he's raising 2 kids with.  Also, has been arrested for violently protesting other issue(s) in the past.

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/outrage-erupts-as-violent-leader-of-columbia-university-s-anti-israel-protest-identified-as-son-of-millionaire-ad-executives/ar-BB1lQuEk?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=b3fdaa114a954bdf9eed648b8da9ac76&ei=25

You wanna know what is weird? The guy who started out leading the protest against the Logging near Fairy Lake by a First Nation group and their partners ignited a huge protest with dozens arrested over the last couple years, and cost the Nation a lot of money in policing, protecting their loggers and in costly delays.... that asshole is an american middle aged son of a logging empire billionaire south of the BC border. Go figure eh?
Follow the money indeed. 

[Sabrefan1]

7 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

You wanna know what is weird? The guy who started out leading the protest against the Logging near Fairy Lake by a First Nation group and their partners ignited a huge protest with dozens arrested over the last couple years, and cost the Nation a lot of money in policing, protecting their loggers and in costly delays.... that asshole is an american middle aged son of a logging empire billionaire south of the BC border. Go figure eh?
Follow the money indeed. 

 

By the sounds of it, the Columbia dude is a bored middle aged as*hole who causes chaos for kicks who has just enough money to escape being held accountable.

 

He's a multi-millionaire trust fund "kid/middle ager" with a law degree so he can get away with quite a bit.  This could come back to bite him especially if Columbia sues him for damages.  He may end up losing his mansion and his model wife if Columbia gets vengeful on his arse.

Edited May 7 by Sabrefan1

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

By the sounds of it, the Columbia dude is a bored middle aged as*hole who causes chaos for kicks who has just enough money to escape being held accountable.

 

He's a multi-millionaire trust fund kid with a law degree so he can get away with quite a bit.  This could come back to bite him especially if Columbia sues him for damages.  He may end up losing his mansion and his model wife if Columbia gets vengeful on his arse.

and they should. I was involved in removing some foreign bad actors from prostests around the first ROTO going to afghanistan, at a prostest in Sherbrook Quebec, a hand full of them were similarly self sufficient financially, from unknown sources to us at the time, and not from here, or planning on staying here, just in town long enough to stir up a few hundred protestors and burn some things. Unfortunately this columbia middle aged rich dad isn't a new story to me. Seen it myself a handful of times and heard about it dozens of times. That is why I am skeptical of any large scale protest where generally newer adults and the naive are showing up in droves to support something that on the surface sounds worth supporting, till you dig deeper. ANyways..i am rambling now. Night all. Didn't mean to stumble back in here. 

[Bob Long]

45 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

As a farmer Jim, I can tell you the term ecocide has been around a while. 

 

The term was coined by Professor Arthur. W. Galston in 1970.

https://ecocidelaw.com/history/

 

I became aware of it when it was used to describe what is happening in regards to the Amazonian rainforest. 

 

This is nothing to joke about.

 

The loss of Arable land.

 

Earth has lost a third of arable land in last 40 years, scientists say "

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/dec/02/arable-land-soil-food-security-shortage

 

Soil erosion 

 

" Why soil is disappearing from farms.

 

https://www.bbc.com/future/bespoke/follow-the-food/why-soil-is-disappearing-from-farms/

 

Then there are farming techniques themselves. 

 

" The number of worlds farms to half by 2100 "

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/05/230516115544.htm

 

Now while many of those farms will consolidate, that article details how this is bad for bio diversity. 

 

And as a farmer this hits hard 

" But those future farm workers may need more support as suicide rates in the agriculture industry are among the highest rates by occupation in the US "

 

 

We can get by without flowers, and the work you do, however if we don't eat, we don't shit, we die. 

 

In regards to flowers, do you know what the first recorded speculative bubble or asset bubble in history was ?

 

The tulip bulb boom, 1634 - 37.

 

I'm not actually joking, just wondering how many ways we will see Israel blamed for things in the region, I'm curious how far it will go this time. 

 

[Ilunga]

4 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

When Israel left Gaza in 2005, it left behind booming agricultural businesses, including one of the world's largest producers of flowers (they were exporting tulips to event to Holland). Guess what happened with all those greenhouses and other agricultural facilities after the withdrawal? You guessed it, they were immediately destroyed by the new regime. But now we have to believe half truth from some British university without clear understanding of funding sources for this "study"  

 

This " greenhouse " myth you have been propagating. 

 

" Greenhouses in Gaza 

What happened"

 

https://matthewzgindin.medium.com/greenhouses-in-gaza-what-happened-ba22b1ac9fdd

 

" I was speaking to a couple of friends the other night when someone mentioned the oft-repeated narrative about how Palestinians in Gaza supposedly tore apart the beautiful green houses left behind for them in an act of enraged mob violence against their former overlords.

 

This story is told with clear intent, to show that even when Israel is kind and generous with the Palestinians, the Palestinians are so consumed with hatred they spoil it. 

Therefore we should not think about being kind and generous with them. To quote something at the gathering said, " I don't think 'making nice' with them is going to solve the conflict." 

 

Understanding that the greenhouse myth is not true is important because it helps us understand the contours of the conflict more accurately and because it will make us more sceptical of the way simplistic, false narratives are deployed for the purposes of propaganda. " 

 

Here are the actual events 

 

" Below is a link to an article by Peter Beinart, an orthodox Jewish Zionist who is probably my favourite reporter and writer on Israel and Palestine

Here is an excerpt

 

" American Jewish leaders usually tell the story this way, when the settlers left Israel handed over the greenhouses to the Palestinians, hoping they would use them to create jobs. Instead Palestinians tore them down in anti Jewish rage " 

 

" But one person who does not endorse that narrative is the prime mover behind the greenhouse deal, Australian Jewish businessman James Wolfensohn, who served as the quartet's special envoy for Gaza. In his memoir Wolfensohn notes that " some damage was done to the greenhouses ( as a result of post disengagement looting ) but they came through essentially intact " and were subsequently guarded by Palestinian authority police. What really doomed the greenhouse initiative, Wolfensohn argues, were Isreali restrictions on Gaza exports. " In early December (2005) he writes, " the much- awaited first harvest of quality cash crops - strawberries, cherry tomatoes, cucumbers, sweet peppers and flowers - began. These crops were intended for export vis Isreal for Europe. But their success relied upon the Karni crossing ( between Gaza and Israel ) which beginning in January 2006 was closed more than not. The Palestine economic development corporation which was managing the greenhouses taken over from the settlers, said that it was experiencing losses of $120,000 per day. It was excruciating. This list harvest was the most recognisable sign of Gaza's declining fortune and the biggest personal disappointment during my mandate. " 

 

" Some more detail from my own research:

Note the mention of " looting ". 

This doesn't refer to the destruction of greenhouses but to Gazans, ( who are desperately poor, unemployed and without adequate infrastructural resources) stealing equipment from the greenhouses ( like irrigation pipes from their farms. 

 

Beinart doesn't mention the fact that settlers, as they left, themselves vandalized as much as half of the greenhouses so Palestinians wouldn't be able to use them. According to the New York Times, two months prior to the withdrawal, Isreali settlers demolished about half of the greenhouses " creating significant doubts that the greenhouses could be handed over to the Palestinians as 'a living business " 

 

The gates foundation and James Wolfensohn, the US special envoy for disengagement, bought the remaining greenhouses from the Israeli settlers on behalf of the Palestinians in Gaza for $14 million. The Palestine economic development company (PED) was an organisation founded by the Palestinian authority to take charge of the greenhouse project after it was turned over to the Palestinians. The PED invested more than $20 million into the project. Jabir head of the PED had to invest an additional $5 million into the project to revive it. "

 

Cut to the chase

 

" So what sunk the greenhouses ? The early looting done by the Palestinians was effectively irrelevant since the PED and foreign philanthropists paid to replace the stolen equipment before the structurally intact greenhouses began functioning. What sunk the greenhouses was the Karni crossing between Israel and Gaza not being open reliably enough for the greenhouses to do business. 

 

One can blame the Palestinians anyway - if Israel wasn't afraid of Palestinian terrorism, the crossings would be open !

 

One can blame Israel - Israel has enough intelligence to tell the difference between vegetable trucks and terrorists, if they had been smart and had the will they could ! 

 

have found a way to support this Palestinian success story.

 

Or both - combine the previous two arguments.

The one thing one cannot do is blaming crowds of Palestinians tearing down in a rage with their bare hands, because they are purely a figment of imagination. "

 

 

 

So what a load of bullshit your greenhouse myth is.

 

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

I'm not actually joking, just wondering how many ways we will see Israel blamed for things in the region, I'm curious how far it will go this time. 

 

 

I dunno.

 

I see lots of blame placed on the Iranians,

 

and rightfully so.

 

Why people are pissed off/protesting, is in regards to the humanitarian conditions in Gaza.

 

I was just thinking yesterday, no matter who you want to blame, don't you believe that insuring that 1 million people have some food to eat is the most important issue.

That especially women and children shouldn't have to pay the price for the actions of the nutjobs ( Hamas').

[RomanPer]

2 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

This " greenhouse " myth you have been propagating. 

 

" Greenhouses in Gaza 

What happened"

 

https://matthewzgindin.medium.com/greenhouses-in-gaza-what-happened-ba22b1ac9fdd

 

" I was speaking to a couple of friends the other night when someone mentioned the oft-repeated narrative about how Palestinians in Gaza supposedly tore apart the beautiful green houses left behind for them in an act of enraged mob violence against their former overlords.

 

This story is told with clear intent, to show that even when Israel is kind and generous with the Palestinians, the Palestinians are so consumed with hatred they spoil it. 

Therefore we should not think about being kind and generous with them. To quote something at the gathering said, " I don't think 'making nice' with them is going to solve the conflict." 

 

Understanding that the greenhouse myth is not true is important because it helps us understand the contours of the conflict more accurately and because it will make us more sceptical of the way simplistic, false narratives are deployed for the purposes of propaganda. " 

 

Here are the actual events 

 

" Below is a link to an article by Peter Beinart, an orthodox Jewish Zionist who is probably my favourite reporter and writer on Israel and Palestine

Here is an excerpt

 

" American Jewish leaders usually tell the story this way, when the settlers left Israel handed over the greenhouses to the Palestinians, hoping they would use them to create jobs. Instead Palestinians tore them down in anti Jewish rage " 

 

" But one person who does not endorse that narrative is the prime mover behind the greenhouse deal, Australian Jewish businessman James Wolfensohn, who served as the quartet's special envoy for Gaza. In his memoir Wolfensohn notes that " some damage was done to the greenhouses ( as a result of post disengagement looting ) but they came through essentially intact " and were subsequently guarded by Palestinian authority police. What really doomed the greenhouse initiative, Wolfensohn argues, were Isreali restrictions on Gaza exports. " In early December (2005) he writes, " the much- awaited first harvest of quality cash crops - strawberries, cherry tomatoes, cucumbers, sweet peppers and flowers - began. These crops were intended for export vis Isreal for Europe. But their success relied upon the Karni crossing ( between Gaza and Israel ) which beginning in January 2006 was closed more than not. The Palestine economic development corporation which was managing the greenhouses taken over from the settlers, said that it was experiencing losses of $120,000 per day. It was excruciating. This list harvest was the most recognisable sign of Gaza's declining fortune and the biggest personal disappointment during my mandate. " 

 

" Some more detail from my own research:

Note the mention of " looting ". 

This doesn't refer to the destruction of greenhouses but to Gazans, ( who are desperately poor, unemployed and without adequate infrastructural resources) stealing equipment from the greenhouses ( like irrigation pipes from their farms. 

 

Beinart doesn't mention the fact that settlers, as they left, themselves vandalized as much as half of the greenhouses so Palestinians wouldn't be able to use them. According to the New York Times, two months prior to the withdrawal, Isreali settlers demolished about half of the greenhouses " creating significant doubts that the greenhouses could be handed over to the Palestinians as 'a living business " 

 

The gates foundation and James Wolfensohn, the US special envoy for disengagement, bought the remaining greenhouses from the Israeli settlers on behalf of the Palestinians in Gaza for $14 million. The Palestine economic development company (PED) was an organisation founded by the Palestinian authority to take charge of the greenhouse project after it was turned over to the Palestinians. The PED invested more than $20 million into the project. Jabir head of the PED had to invest an additional $5 million into the project to revive it. "

 

Cut to the chase

 

" So what sunk the greenhouses ? The early looting done by the Palestinians was effectively irrelevant since the PED and foreign philanthropists paid to replace the stolen equipment before the structurally intact greenhouses began functioning. What sunk the greenhouses was the Karni crossing between Israel and Gaza not being open reliably enough for the greenhouses to do business. 

 

One can blame the Palestinians anyway - if Israel wasn't afraid of Palestinian terrorism, the crossings would be open !

 

One can blame Israel - Israel has enough intelligence to tell the difference between vegetable trucks and terrorists, if they had been smart and had the will they could ! 

 

have found a way to support this Palestinian success story.

 

Or both - combine the previous two arguments.

The one thing one cannot do is blaming crowds of Palestinians tearing down in a rage with their bare hands, because they are purely a figment of imagination. "

 

 

 

So what a load of bullshit your greenhouse myth is.

 

 

Yet again, you find an opinion of a single person, make a very long and winded post out of it and suddenly make it into a fact. Please stop replying to my posts.

[Ilunga]

40 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Yet again, you find an opinion of a single person, make a very long and winded post out of it and suddenly make it into a fact. Please stop replying to my posts.

 

Roman it's not an opinion of a person.

 

It's the actual life experience of the Australian/Jewish businessman, who was responsible for, and ended up buying those greenhouses. 

 

And it's the New York Times that claimed it was Israeli settlers who demolished about half the green houses in Gaza.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/15/world/middleeast/israeli-settlers-demolish-greenhouses-and-gaza-jobs.html

 

You don't believe the New York Times wouldn't fact check a claim like that.

 

These aren't opinions Roman, these are facts. 

 

And I will continue to call out your BS.

[RomanPer]

14 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

Roman it's not an opinion of a person.

 

It's the actual life experience of the Australian/Jewish businessman, who was responsible for, and ended up buying those greenhouses. 

 

And it's the New York Times that claimed it was Israeli settlers who demolished about half the green houses in Gaza.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/15/world/middleeast/israeli-settlers-demolish-greenhouses-and-gaza-jobs.html

 

You don't believe the New York Times wouldn't fact check a claim like that.

 

These aren't opinions Roman, these are facts. 

 

And I will continue to call out your BS.

 

Farm off

Edited May 7 by Sharpshooter
Attack the post, not the poster.

[Ilunga]

14 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

Farm off

 

Classy stuff Roman.

 

" Insults are the arguments employed by those in the wrong "

 

JJR 

Edited May 7 by Sharpshooter
Unnecessary

[Boudrias]

5 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

Yet again, you find an opinion of a single person, make a very long and winded post out of it and suddenly make it into a fact. Please stop replying to my posts.

In generality conflicts like the one in Gaza draws many people who are on the edge of reality. The antisemitic demos in universities around the world show how easily people can be led by professional agents. Behind the political BS is a serious group of people who understand the full global scope of what is happening in Gaza and Ukraine. The unknown battles are those happening within our own countries.  

[Canuck Surfer]

For better or worse; this suggests the Rafah crossing in to Egypt is now closed.  Youtube link that would not imbed..., Israel attacked and closed the crossing from the Gaza, not Egyptian side.

 

https://youtu.be/zh68orhC5lQ

 

[Canuck Surfer]

Here is what is being reported, in my adopted 2knd West Coast home town, as to what can happen with social media.

 

Tragic, a 16 year old, I believe i read, radicalized online before he turned 14.  Killed by police in an incident now, two years after he set off a bomb in his high school. Just 3 or 4 km from where we used to live.  A respected school people bought homes in to bring their kids too.

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

9 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

That especially women and children shouldn't have to pay the price for the actions of the nutjobs ( Hamas').

 

How do you react to these nutjobs?  This is an important unanswered issue.

 

What would you do / advise Israel to do...   

[Bob Long]

9 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

I dunno.

 

I see lots of blame placed on the Iranians,

 

and rightfully so.

 

Why people are pissed off/protesting, is in regards to the humanitarian conditions in Gaza.

 

I was just thinking yesterday, no matter who you want to blame, don't you believe that insuring that 1 million people have some food to eat is the most important issue.

That especially women and children shouldn't have to pay the price for the actions of the nutjobs ( Hamas').

 

Of course, no children should pay the price for this ongoing crap.

 

I think if Iran was a democratic country we see none of this, but we probably don't see that in our lives.

[Canuck Surfer]

Hamas has 'accepted' a Qatari / Egyptian ceasefire proposal.  Not an Israeli one.

 

Not sure how much good that is?

 

 

 

[RomanPer]

The Day of Remembrance of the Catastrophe and Heroism has begun in Israel - the first since the mega-terrorist attack /. Therefore, many things will be “for the first time”:
- For the first time we will not repeat "Never Again". Because what kind of “Never Again” is there if at the Nova festival that morning young Jewish women were again hiding in garbage containers, where they were found and shot by armed Arab killers. Their grandmothers and great-grandmothers hid in the same way in garbage pits, latrines and in the sewers of Lvov and Warsaw, fleeing from total genocide.

- For the first time, we will not be able to speak a Hebrew poem about two days of remembrance - the Holocaust and the fallen soldiers of Israel, whose loss figures - six million and 23 thousand, show how much it “cost” us without the State and how much with it. Because before our eyes and with our fellow citizens, friends and neighbors, the greatest murder of Jews since the Holocaust occurred.

- For the first time, we understand that the State of Israel and its Army have not fulfilled their strategic mission, which has been spoken about with pride and pathos for decades from all platforms: to be a reliable and safe refuge for Jews.

The failure is too obvious, and its correction is very far from complete. We are terribly far from even realizing the need for a radical change in the entire system of values, the state, army, intelligence, legal system, relationships between sectors and groups of our society.

And not for the first time, but absolutely the same as in the 1930s-1940s, the world does not care about the Jewish people/Israel.

Whether we are being slaughtered from the Gaza Strip, or whether Tehran is preparing a total “erasure of Israel from the map of the world” - by and large, no one cares, everyone has their own life and their own concerns. What “lessons of the Holocaust” are there if Islamonazis sit along the entire perimeter of Israel’s borders and openly call for a new Holocaust. And “progressive humanity” after the 7/10 massacre condemns Israel for self-defense in the wild jungles of the Middle East.

Because the cynical world community is ready to mourn the dead Jews of the Holocaust, but is never ready to support the Jews of Israel - living and victorious. That is why all sorts of UN, Biden and Hague prevent Israel from winning.

Hence the simple, difficult conclusions: live your own life and be yourself. Accept as the norm the hatred of pro-Hamas demonstrations around the globe. Quietly contemplate the decline of the once best universities in America and drink tea while watching reports from campuses that are completely frostbitten.

Do what is necessary for the survival and preservation of the Jewish people and Israel - here and now, tomorrow and always. And yes - give birth to more Jewish children in the Jewish State, giving them a good Jewish education.

Remember the Holocaust - without thinking that we are so super-duper, modern and insured against black failures, Remember our many enemies and appreciate our few friends. But rely only on your own strength and on the Creator of the Universe. Am Israel hai! (c) Shimon Briman, Israeli journalist

[Guntrix]

Five seconds here and the most recent post is Zionist propaganda. I’m out.

[RomanPer]

42 minutes ago, Guntrix said:

Five seconds here and the most recent post is Zionist propaganda. I’m out.

 

Commemorating Jews who died in Holocaust is "Zionist propaganda"? Nope, you are not anti-Semite at all... I'm glad you are out. Promise to stay out.

[Sharpshooter]

3 hours ago, Guntrix said:

Five seconds here and the most recent post is Zionist propaganda. I’m out.

Please don’t incite/flame other Members for factual information/reporting they provide. 
 

That goes for everyone, not just yourself.