Optimist Prime Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 7 hours ago, Gnarcore said: And as it is a belief people have a right to call it bullshit. 6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: Sure. And I have a right to call your atheist belief bullshit too. I agree with both of you on this one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 4 hours ago, bishopshodan said: I dont know how more people dont call themselves agnostic. There is just no evidence to support if there is, or if there isn't. It must be a maybe. This is sliding into the God thread territory, but a simple retort from me: So there very well might be a teacup spinning at the center of the universe, as Richard Dawkins theorizes in one of his books. There is no evidence to support the spinning teacup theory but there isn't any evidence against it either. it must be a maybe. (tongue in cheek of course: the number of things that might exist using this methodology you mention is infinite if one can't slice out the highly improbable aspect of something's existence. Zeus and Zoroaster among them) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said: This is sliding into the God thread territory, but a simple retort from me: So there very well might be a teacup spinning at the center of the universe, as Richard Dawkins theorizes in one of his books. There is no evidence to support the spinning teacup theory but there isn't any evidence against it either. it must be a maybe. (tongue in cheek of course: the number of things that might exist using this methodology you mention is infinite if one can't slice out the highly improbable aspect of something's existence. Zeus and Zoroaster among them) Didnt they even corner Einstein this way? A relgious non-believer had to admit he was agnostic. Then you get into the debate about intellignet design vs/or 'G'od. And yes, I believe our consciousness is infinite ... Anyway, wrong thread. I'll leave it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarcore Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 11 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: I agree with both of you on this one. Absolutely. Both are beliefs and open to discussion and ridicule 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 2 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: Absolutely dead on. Bastardization of religion for power is as old as war. Yet peace comes when you get the masses to separate their beliefs from any control freaks. Do we have to convince them religion is not real? Or just respect their space. I don't want to convince them of anything, other than to leave others alone to live in peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 2 minutes ago, Gnarcore said: Absolutely. Both are beliefs and open to discussion and ridicule All i can say is that my life is pretty plain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 7 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said: All i can say is that my life is pretty plain... Some fans in Vancouver wished the original singer of this song liked to make it 'rain', a little less... https://www.straight.com/blogra/526086/20-years-ago-shannon-hoon-blind-melon-pees-stage-vancouver 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted May 14 Author Share Posted May 14 (edited) Oh Good grief. ---------------------------- For those sensitive souls on this board with virgin ears, there is a movie clip at the end that uses the word "b*tch". If you're offended easily, or are concerned that your ears will bleed, do not click on the video. NSFW Edited May 14 by Sabrefan1 More underlining 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 11 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said: Oh Good grief. ---------------------------- For those sensitive souls on this board with virgin ears, there is a movie clip at the end that uses the word "b*tch". If you're offended easily, or are concerned that your ears will bleed, do not click on the video. NSFW Funny for sure. But also sad that these two young women have no idea what Hamas people would do to them if given opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 31 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Some fans in Vancouver wished the original singer of this song liked to make it 'rain', a little less... https://www.straight.com/blogra/526086/20-years-ago-shannon-hoon-blind-melon-pees-stage-vancouver my wife and sister in law were at that show with their dad and a friend he employed in his fish and chips shop. THey claim they were not in the splash zone. hahaha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted May 14 Author Share Posted May 14 14 minutes ago, Alflives said: Funny for sure. But also sad that these two young women have no idea what Hamas people would do to them if given opportunity. Are you under the impression that they're gay? If they are, then yes, they'd be killed. If they aren't, they'd be made to wear a hijab immediately, convert, and most definitely not get anywhere near a school again unless they were walking to pick up their future son(s) in one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 (edited) 1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said: my wife and sister in law were at that show with their dad and a friend he employed in his fish and chips shop. THey claim they were not in the splash zone. hahaha I was working down the street. Heard about it that night. I would have gone but man, I would have considered homicide on a hippy singer if I was in said splash zone! Edited May 14 by bishopshodan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted May 14 Author Share Posted May 14 5 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: I was working down the street. Heard about it that night. I would have gone but man, I would have considered homicide on a hippy singer if I was in said splash zone! You beat me to it. I would have been hauled off to jail for assault and battery after they peeled me off of the dude. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 (edited) 3 hours ago, bishopshodan said: The bolded is the platinum rule. I learned about it from a high-end HR exec, we poached her from Disney when she was in Van setting up a tech division for them. I struggled with the Platinum rule as I thought that the Golden rule covered it. Respect. But it did make me think... IF in my house I dont mind that people wear their shoes then should I be able to wear my shoes in thiers, right? even if they dont like it? I mean, I am treating them the way that I expect to be treated... It's silly though, because my example is absent of 'respect' which is really what we mean when we say 'golden rule'. To respect each other. But, maybe it gives a thought to the idea that we can all have some ignorance. Even if we dont understand, and even if it would be ok for us, maybe its not ok for 'them'. Anyway, just popped into my head and not a comment on the discussion you were having. Hope you are well, man. Love readin your contributions. Yes I totally understand respect for someone else's traditions or way of life. Again, fucking with others covers the Platinum rule. In the example you gave, taking off your shoes in their house is showing you respect them. You are not hurting any one by doing this. I have sort of changed the wording of my golden rule over the years. It's simple. Don't fuck with others. Others will fuck with you, thats inevitable. However all we can truly take to the grave with us is being true to ourselves. My experience is the hardest things to do in life, are the most important and rewarding. Even if they don't feel like that at the time. Cheers brother. Wish there were more people like you in this world, and on this board. Hope you have settled into your new job. I saw you had an issue. @Gurn voiced my feelings on that. I hope it all turned OK. Edited May 15 by Ilunga 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 6 hours ago, HarbularyBattery said: ill always cheer when people remind that we're all human beings, basically wired the same way internally, and we all basically want the same things (food, water, smiles and laughter, safety for ourselves and loved ones) This is what I do both in life and on this board. And I have lost track of the amount of times I have stated this, in this thread. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 2 hours ago, Sabrefan1 said: Are you under the impression that they're gay? If they are, then yes, they'd be killed. If they aren't, they'd be made to wear a hijab immediately, convert, and most definitely not get anywhere near a school again unless they were walking to pick up their future son(s) in one. If you under the impression that you would be killed if you are gay in Gaza, then you be wrong. https://www.humandignitytrust.org./country-profile/palestine/ " Same sexual activity is prohibited in Gaza under the British mandate Criminal Code Ordinance 1936. The relevant provision carries a maximum penalty of ten years' imprisonment. Only men are criminalised under this law. The law was inherited from the British. It continues to be in operation in Gaza today though it is not in force elsewhere in Palestine. There is little evidence of the law being enforced, and it appears to be largely obsolete in practice. However an incident in 2017 saw an author being threatened with prosecution for writing a novel which included LGBT themes. There do not appear to be any other reports of enforcement of the criminalising law or other laws. Nevertheless, the mere existence of this provision is itself a violation of human rights and underpins further acts of discrimination. " Source for that article Human Dignity Trust https://www.fatbeehive.com/case-study/human-dignity-trust/ It's an British based NGO that works with LGBT activists globally, assisting them to use the law to defend their rights. Now for women being able to access a tertiary education. While this is still hard, both at a cultural and economic level, some still find a way. And there is even a scholarship program available. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/women-gaza-education-university-b2311778.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 28 minutes ago, Ilunga said: If you under the impression that you would be killed if you are gay in Gaza, then you be wrong. https://www.humandignitytrust.org./country-profile/palestine/ " Same sexual activity is prohibited in Gaza under the British mandate Criminal Code Ordinance 1936. The relevant provision carries a maximum penalty of ten years' imprisonment. Only men are criminalised under this law. The law was inherited from the British. It continues to be in operation in Gaza today though it is not in force elsewhere in Palestine. There is little evidence of the law being enforced, and it appears to be largely obsolete in practice. However an incident in 2017 saw an author being threatened with prosecution for writing a novel which included LGBT themes. There do not appear to be any other reports of enforcement of the criminalising law or other laws. Nevertheless, the mere existence of this provision is itself a violation of human rights and underpins further acts of discrimination. " Source for that article Human Dignity Trust https://www.fatbeehive.com/case-study/human-dignity-trust/ It's an British based NGO that works with LGBT activists globally, assisting them to use the law to defend their rights. Now for women being able to access a tertiary education. While this is still hard, both at a cultural and economic level, some still find a way. And there is even a scholarship program available. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/women-gaza-education-university-b2311778.html I'm calling bullshit on this, you know damn well the fundamentalists would eliminate all gay people given the chance. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: I'm calling bullshit on this, you know damn well the fundamentalists would eliminate all gay people given the chance. Why do people continually deny evidence that is provided to them. I will take the evidence provided by an organisation that works with, and supports LGBT people across the world, over someone's opinion. An organisation that has actually investigated what is happening in Gaza in relation to LGBT people. They, Hamas', has had the chance for the last 20 years to, as you put it, " eliminate them " Provide some facts/evidence Jim for your assertion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 The words of a Palestinian gay man from Gaza @Bob Long " LGBT life is arduous and dangerous. I would know. I grew up there. However only blaming Palestine's conversatism and Hamas white washing Isreal siege and military assaults, is dishonest and exploitative. " " The fact of the matter is that Jamil's clandestine gay life is a familiar experience nearly everywhere in the world, from rural American towns, to conservative Israeli cities and illegal settlements in the West Bank. Palestine is no exception. Speaking of those American towns " Texas pastor says gay people should be 'shot in the back of the head' in achieving sermon. " https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/texas-pastor-says-gay-people-shot-back-head-shocking-sermon-rcna32748 And then there is this Guy, a minister in Netanyahu's government. https://www.timesofisrael.com/coalition-mk-lgbtq-community-poses-greater-threat-to-israel-than-hezbollah-or-hamas/ " In my world view the most dangerous thing to the state of Israel - more than the Islamic state, more than Hezbollah, more than Hamas - is the permissiveness regarding arayot, because that's what the Torah says, Pindrus says, using a term used for sexual relationships and practice's that are forbidden by the bible and by Jewish law, including intercourse between men among many other examples not related to LGBTQ people. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 1 hour ago, Ilunga said: Why do people continually deny evidence that is provided to them. I will take the evidence provided by an organisation that works with, and supports LGBT people across the world, over someone's opinion. An organisation that has actually investigated what is happening in Gaza in relation to LGBT people. They, Hamas', has had the chance for the last 20 years to, as you put it, " eliminate them " Provide some facts/evidence Jim for your assertion. This is why I doubt your posts from time to time, you really believe islamic fundamentalists are pro gay. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 Just now, Bob Long said: This is why I doubt your posts from time to time, you really believe islamic fundamentalists are pro gay. Where the fuck did I say they are pro gay ? Did you read my post that detailed a gay Palestinian man from Gaza stated " LGBT life is arduous and dangerous ". As he then went on to say, as it is in many parts of the world. I then provided evidence of fundamentalists in America and Isreal that share the same views as, some Muslims fundamentalists. I present facts, with links to evidence to back up claims. You are welcome to doubt what you want, that's your privilege. You made an assertion. Can you provide facts/evidence to back up that assertion ? In some countries Muslim Imams themselves are coming out as gay Here in Aus https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-09/gay-imam-hopes-to-open-australias-first-lgbti-friendly-mosque/9310952 In France https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/06/gay-imam-islam-paris-france-mosque/ In the US https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/meet-daayiee-abdullah-america-s-gay-imam-1.3109051 In Toronto A mosque that welcomes gay people. https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/affirming-mosques-help-gay-muslims-reconcile-faith-sexuality-n988151 As I have already illustrated there are fundamentalists in Judaism, Islam and Christianity that condemn LGBT people. It isn't only limited to Islamist fundamentalists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted May 15 Author Share Posted May 15 3 hours ago, Ilunga said: If you under the impression that you would be killed if you are gay in Gaza, then you be wrong. https://www.humandignitytrust.org./country-profile/palestine/ " Same sexual activity is prohibited in Gaza under the British mandate Criminal Code Ordinance 1936. The relevant provision carries a maximum penalty of ten years' imprisonment. Only men are criminalised under this law. The law was inherited from the British. It continues to be in operation in Gaza today though it is not in force elsewhere in Palestine. There is little evidence of the law being enforced, and it appears to be largely obsolete in practice. However an incident in 2017 saw an author being threatened with prosecution for writing a novel which included LGBT themes. There do not appear to be any other reports of enforcement of the criminalising law or other laws. Nevertheless, the mere existence of this provision is itself a violation of human rights and underpins further acts of discrimination. " Source for that article Human Dignity Trust https://www.fatbeehive.com/case-study/human-dignity-trust/ It's an British based NGO that works with LGBT activists globally, assisting them to use the law to defend their rights. Now for women being able to access a tertiary education. While this is still hard, both at a cultural and economic level, some still find a way. And there is even a scholarship program available. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/women-gaza-education-university-b2311778.html Thanks for the head's up. I assumed there were a fair amount of fundamentalist Muslims in Gaza... I still have my doubts that an openly gay person wouldn't eventually be killed by a fundamentalist in the area, but it's good to learn that it isn't like other places where you'd only last about as long as it would take them to drag you up to the top of a building. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrefan1 Posted May 15 Author Share Posted May 15 Media Ignore Quietly-Revised UN Figures of Hamas-Reported Civilian Deaths https://honestreporting.com/media-ignore-quietly-revised-un-figures-of-hamas-reported-civilian-deaths/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 2 hours ago, Sabrefan1 said: Thanks for the head's up. I assumed there were a fair amount of fundamentalist Muslims in Gaza... I still have my doubts that an openly gay person wouldn't eventually be killed by a fundamentalist in the area, but it's good to learn that it isn't like other places where you'd only last about as long as it would take them to drag you up to the top of a building. I am certainly not stating life is easy for gay men in Gaza. I posted this article a week or two ago. It gives an insight into gay life in Gaza. https://time.com/6326254/queering-the-map-gaza-lgbt-palestinians/ . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 2 hours ago, Sabrefan1 said: Media Ignore Quietly-Revised UN Figures of Hamas-Reported Civilian Deaths https://honestreporting.com/media-ignore-quietly-revised-un-figures-of-hamas-reported-civilian-deaths/ Brother I have already addressed this claim a couple of pages ago. " UN denies death toll of women and children has been revised down " https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/13/gaza-ministry-revises-figures-for-women-and-children-killed https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-says-gaza-death-toll-still-over-35000-not-all-bodies-identified-2024-05-13/ Bottom line, there are still the same amount of dead bodies, 10,000 haven't been identified. As I detailed in a previous post, some of those bodies are unrecognisable. That's why reputable media aren't reporting this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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