Hamas attacking Israel

[RomanPer]

21 minutes ago, HarbularyBattery said:

Thats wild that you'd post an accurate map and then lie in the exact same sentence

 

The map shows the truth which is: Jewish owners legally owned 6.6% of the total land in 1947. 55% of the total land was allocated to Israel in the partition plan.

 

So yeah, back on ignore, not debating with someone who has no problem just making shit up for no reason. 

 

You can't have it both ways. Just because Jews owned 6.6% land doesn't mean that the remaining 93.4% was owned by Arabs. It simply isn't true. Majority of that land was uninhibited and not owned by individuals. I can also bring up that most of that 55% of land allocated to Israel was the swamp or the dessert.

Edited June 14 by RomanPer

[HarbularyBattery]

1 minute ago, RomanPer said:

 

You can't have it both ways. Just because Jews owned 6.6% land doesn't mean that the remaining 93.4% was owned by Arabs. It simply isn't true. Majority of that land was uninhibited and not owned by individuals.

Im not arguing that 93% was owned by Arabs, the vast majority was owned by the British Mandate. Land "ownership" by way of titles and deeds wasnt even a thing in that region until mid 1800s. 

 

The entire point i was trying to make is there was a ton of inhabited land, villages and towns from where people were expelled and fled from, and they wnated to go back but weren't allowed to

 

Taxis entire argument revolves around the UN partition plan - if the arabs didn't want to lose everything they should have said yes, but he ignores that Israel too ignored the UN when the UN told Israel to let people move back to thier towns and homes.

 

Again, I respect you and appreciate what you said about not going back to the well of history to re-adjudicate everything, but just like we cant deny that Jews were unjustly expelled from Arab countries, we cant deny that the same happened to Palestinians, and the only reason I say this is if someone is really interested in finding a solution its about being fair to everyone - the people that lost their homes and towns and land, as well as to the Israelis who live there today who played no part in those people being disposessed. I get frustrated by the way Taxi speaks because it purports this myth that the reason we have his conflict is because muslims hate jews. there are real reasons why we're where we are today and if someone really wants to solve things u have to try to address as many of the injustices as possible. what doesnt work is nonsense like taxi pushed which was to say arabs werent really expelled, jews owned all of the land in the partition plan anyway, which is just not true. 

 

 

[RomanPer]

1 hour ago, HarbularyBattery said:

 

i agree, and if the this offer with the conditions was made by Israel, its a whole lot easier for everyone to stand behind Israel (except for the antisemities and nazis of course, theyll always be themselves)

 

if that deal is offered and palestinians fuck it up/turn it down/fail to do their part, nobody can say that Israel hasn't done everything it can to actually address the root cause of palestinian anger. Israel not only reclaims the moral highground in the conflict, but they immediately win over the vast majority of palestinians who just want an opportunity to live safely and feed their kids

 

 

 

This is precisely the point of why we (Jews) are getting so defensive every time someone is trying to blame Israel in anything - because it's always being used to raise the overall level of antisemitism in the world. And we know how it usually ends. Holocaust was just the latest attempt to kill all of us and it was in relatively close past, so majority of people know about it. But it wasn't the first such attempt, and, unfortunately, won't be the last one either. Our memory keeps all of them. We even celebrate our victories in some such attempts from ancient history (Purim).

[RomanPer]

16 minutes ago, HarbularyBattery said:

Im not arguing that 93% was owned by Arabs, the vast majority was owned by the British Mandate. Land "ownership" by way of titles and deeds wasnt even a thing in that region until mid 1800s. 

 

The entire point i was trying to make is there was a ton of inhabited land, villages and towns from where people were expelled and fled from, and they wnated to go back but weren't allowed to

 

Taxis entire argument revolves around the UN partition plan - if the arabs didn't want to lose everything they should have said yes, but he ignores that Israel too ignored the UN when the UN told Israel to let people move back to thier towns and homes.

 

Again, I respect you and appreciate what you said about not going back to the well of history to re-adjudicate everything, but just like we cant deny that Jews were unjustly expelled from Arab countries, we cant deny that the same happened to Palestinians, and the only reason I say this is if someone is really interested in finding a solution its about being fair to everyone - the people that lost their homes and towns and land, as well as to the Israelis who live there today who played no part in those people being disposessed. I get frustrated by the way Taxi speaks because it purports this myth that the reason we have his conflict is because muslims hate jews. there are real reasons why we're where we are today and if someone really wants to solve things u have to try to address as many of the injustices as possible. what doesnt work is nonsense like taxi pushed which was to say arabs werent really expelled, jews owned all of the land in the partition plan anyway, which is just not true. 

 

 

 

I don't think it's realistic at this point to have all the Arabs that left (and their children/grandchildren) all return to where they lived before 1948, just like it's unrealistic for the same thing to happen with the Jews who left Arab countries. Some sort of compensation needs to be negotiated. But for that to happen - there must be a will on both sides. What bothers me is that the world's expectations from Israel are on a whole different level than the expectations from the other side. I think the fact that you brought yourself - that Arab Israelis have all the same rights as Jewish Israelis, is pretty solid argument that Israel isn't looking to eradicate Arabs. Are there racists within Israel? Unfortunately, yes, in that regard we are no different than any other nation in the world. Are there idiots in positions of power in Israel? The same, we are no different than majority of the countries in that regard. There's a famous phrase by Ben Gurion - "We will become a true nation when we have our own thieves, our own prostitutes". Well, I should also add "corrupt politicians". But again - we didn't invent the wheel in that area either. But I will defend my country against external enemies all the time and then will try to fix internal problems within our own house.

[HarbularyBattery]

8 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

This is precisely the point of why we (Jews) are getting so defensive every time someone is trying to blame Israel in anything - because it's always being used to raise the overall level of antisemitism in the world. And we know how it usually ends. Holocaust was just the latest attempt to kill all of us and it was in relatively close past, so majority of people know about it. But it wasn't the first such attempt, and, unfortunately, won't be the last one either. Our memory keeps all of them. We even celebrate our victories in some such attempts from ancient history (Purim).

i dont disagree with any of that

half the time criticizing israel is an excuse to criticize jews

if u challenge someone on what beef they have with israel, its either some antisemetic trope or they just dont know

fuck them 

but there are very legitimate criticisms which u and i have discussed in this thread, and real mistreatment and injustices that not only are morally unacceptable but also radicalize palestinians which threatens the survival of Israel. It is better for everyone to be fully honest about all of it and make an attempt to understand and advocate for a resolution to those things

none of this is intended to minimize the injustices and evils that palestinians have inflicted on israelis. its just an attempt to fix the underlying problem so everyone can have peace. 

[HarbularyBattery]

6 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

I don't think it's realistic at this point to have all the Arabs that left (and their children/grandchildren) all return to where they lived before 1948, just like it's unrealistic for the same thing to happen with the Jews who left Arab countries. Some sort of compensation needs to be negotiated. But for that to happen - there must be a will on both sides. What bothers me is that the world's expectations from Israel are on a whole different level than the expectations from the other side. I think the fact that you brought yourself - that Arab Israelis have all the same rights as Jewish Israelis, is pretty solid argument that Israel isn't looking to eradicate Arabs. Are there racists within Israel? Unfortunately, yes, in that regard we are no different than any other nation in the world. Are there idiots in positions of power in Israel? The same, we are no different than majority of the countries in that regard. There's a famous phrase by Ben Gurion - "We will become a true nation when we have our own thieves, our own prostitutes". Well, I should also add "corrupt politicians". But again - we didn't invent the wheel in that area either. But I will defend my country against external enemies all the time and then will try to fix internal problems within our own house.

i agree, its not realistic. it would have to be compensation of some kind, likely in the form of a land swap to make the palestinian territories more viable as a state. no serious person believes that palestine as it stands today, two entirely separated landmasses, could ever be a viable state. a land swap to join the territories into a parcel of land that would be a viable state and if this was offered with the conditions we discussed, i believe it would work. Unfortunately, since the early 2000s, Likud has made it clear that a Palestinian state of any kind is not acceptable, it will take a much more moderate negotiating party to not only accept a palesitnian state in principle, but acknowledge the responsibility to provide compensation and landswaps in exchange for forfeiting right of return. It will also take Palestinians willing to throw Hamas out on their own accord, and a new leader to stand up and say - Israel deserves to exist as a Jewish state, and we're willing to give up our past demands to return in exchange for a viable state.

 

the discrepancy in expectations of israel comes from two places i think

 

1. sometimes its antisemitism- some of these people just dont like jews, and theyre usually pretty clear thats their reason

2. i make no secret that even in my ideal plan, im expecting way more of israel. Im expecting Israel to give up territory, withdraw from settlements, etc. Thats a far bigger ask than just recognizing the right of israel to exist and putting down weapons. My lopsided expectations arent based on antisemitism, theyre just based on the fact that I think thats whats fair to resolve the existing injustices in the region, and what would create peace. Israel should not be occupying and settling the West Bank, Hamas should not be murdering civilians or sending rockets into Israeli towns. Israel has the  right to exist, Palestinians deserve self determination in a manner that does not threaten Israelis right to live in peace. 

 

 

[RomanPer]

4 minutes ago, HarbularyBattery said:

i agree, its not realistic. it would have to be compensation of some kind, likely in the form of a land swap to make the palestinian territories more viable as a state. no serious person believes that palestine as it stands today, two entirely separated landmasses, could ever be a viable state. a land swap to join the territories into a parcel of land that would be a viable state and if this was offered with the conditions we discussed, i believe it would work. Unfortunately, since the early 2000s, Likud has made it clear that a Palestinian state of any kind is not acceptable, it will take a much more moderate negotiating party to not only accept a palesitnian state in principle, but acknowledge the responsibility to provide compensation and landswaps in exchange for forfeiting right of return. It will also take Palestinians willing to throw Hamas out on their own accord, and a new leader to stand up and say - Israel deserves to exist as a Jewish state, and we're willing to give up our past demands to return in exchange for a viable state.

 

the discrepancy in expectations of israel comes from two places i think

 

1. sometimes its antisemitism- some of these people just dont like jews, and theyre usually pretty clear thats their reason

2. i make no secret that even in my ideal plan, im expecting way more of israel. Im expecting Israel to give up territory, withdraw from settlements, etc. Thats a far bigger ask than just recognizing the right of israel to exist and putting down weapons. My lopsided expectations arent based on antisemitism, theyre just based on the fact that I think thats whats fair to resolve the existing injustices in the region, and what would create peace. Israel should not be occupying and settling the West Bank, Hamas should not be murdering civilians or sending rockets into Israeli towns. Israel has the  right to exist, Palestinians deserve self determination in a manner that does not threaten Israelis right to live in peace. 

 

 

 

Well, with simple geography, if there's a corridor between West Bank and Gaza, then we are talking about Israel being divided into 2 parts. Are you suggesting moving the entire population of Gaza into an expanded area in the West Bank that currently belongs to Israel?

 

Let's just put it this way - if any of us had a real solution that would be accepted by everyone, we would be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. From my vintage point - there is too much evidence that Hamas and its actions are having wide spread support among the Palestinian population. There are also numerous quotes attributed to Arafat and other notable Palestinian leaders that state that any peace with Israel is just a temporary solution to roll the can down the road but it never removes the ultimate goal - not to have Jews in that part of the world. This is what makes so many Israelis very pessimistic with regards to the lasting peace. And with every rocket attack, every terrorist act - that pessimism only grows.

 

If you go to the start of the thread - I relayed my personal experience of missing being killed in a bus terrorist attack in Jerusalem in 1996 by mere minutes. Such experiences stay with you for the rest of your life.

[HarbularyBattery]

11 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Well, with simple geography, if there's a corridor between West Bank and Gaza, then we are talking about Israel being divided into 2 parts. Are you suggesting moving the entire population of Gaza into an expanded area in the West Bank that currently belongs to Israel?

 

Let's just put it this way - if any of us had a real solution that would be accepted by everyone, we would be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. From my vintage point - there is too much evidence that Hamas and its actions are having wide spread support among the Palestinian population. There are also numerous quotes attributed to Arafat and other notable Palestinian leaders that state that any peace with Israel is just a temporary solution to roll the can down the road but it never removes the ultimate goal - not to have Jews in that part of the world. This is what makes so many Israelis very pessimistic with regards to the lasting peace. And with every rocket attack, every terrorist act - that pessimism only grows.

 

If you go to the start of the thread - I relayed my personal experience of missing being killed in a bus terrorist attack in Jerusalem in 1996 by mere minutes. Such experiences stay with you for the rest of your life.

Maybe Gaza is part of the land swap idk, or some kind of internationally guaranteed/maintained corridor exists between both territories, but i just cant imagine a state without the ability for residents to move freely within its borders would work

 

i am sorry to hear about that experience, i didnt know. i can imagine that stays with you forever. 

 

i think that same phenomenon youve described israelis experiencing with growing pessimism is exactly the same on the other side too. one injustice by one side created retaliation, begetting another injustice, etc etc. but i still believe that deep down everyones main concern is just their survival, feeding their family, etc. and with the right leadership on both sides de escalation and a permanent resolution is possible. the trouble is right now i dont think its in either partys incentive for peace. Israel can handle the status quo. Israeli civilians suffer, but the smotriches and ben gvirs benefit from that because it helps create political will to settle more and more Palestinian territory. Hamas gets all kinds of support from Iran and others when it attacks Israel and puts Palestinians in harms way. The fact that Hamas kept hostages in an apartment building- it seems obvious Hamas wanted Israel to come in and for as many palestinian civilians as possible to die, because the more palestinians die, the more soldiers Hamas gets and the more support it receives. 

 

 

 

[Gnarcore]

2 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

This is precisely the point of why we (Jews) are getting so defensive every time someone is trying to blame Israel in anything - because it's always being used to raise the overall level of antisemitism in the world. And we know how it usually ends. Holocaust was just the latest attempt to kill all of us and it was in relatively close past, so majority of people know about it. But it wasn't the first such attempt, and, unfortunately, won't be the last one either. Our memory keeps all of them. We even celebrate our victories in some such attempts from ancient history (Purim).

While that is understandable the tossing around of the anti semite label to any criticism of Israel is a bit over the top from some organizations.  B'nai Brith has done that for years. 

[Taxi]

13 hours ago, HarbularyBattery said:

Maybe Gaza is part of the land swap idk, or some kind of internationally guaranteed/maintained corridor exists between both territories, but i just cant imagine a state without the ability for residents to move freely within its borders would work

 

i am sorry to hear about that experience, i didnt know. i can imagine that stays with you forever. 

 

i think that same phenomenon youve described israelis experiencing with growing pessimism is exactly the same on the other side too. one injustice by one side created retaliation, begetting another injustice, etc etc. but i still believe that deep down everyones main concern is just their survival, feeding their family, etc. and with the right leadership on both sides de escalation and a permanent resolution is possible. the trouble is right now i dont think its in either partys incentive for peace. Israel can handle the status quo. Israeli civilians suffer, but the smotriches and ben gvirs benefit from that because it helps create political will to settle more and more Palestinian territory. Hamas gets all kinds of support from Iran and others when it attacks Israel and puts Palestinians in harms way. The fact that Hamas kept hostages in an apartment building- it seems obvious Hamas wanted Israel to come in and for as many palestinian civilians as possible to die, because the more palestinians die, the more soldiers Hamas gets and the more support it receives. 

 

 

 

 

Israel has always proposed a highway in between Gaza and the West Bank. The two territories are less than 40 km apart. You could easily build a tunnel to cover large parts of that distance. 

 

Hamas has total control of the education system in Gaza. Their soldiers come from training young children to be martyrs. They train entire classrooms of kids to be militants.

[Taxi]

14 hours ago, HarbularyBattery said:

Im not arguing that 93% was owned by Arabs, the vast majority was owned by the British Mandate. Land "ownership" by way of titles and deeds wasnt even a thing in that region until mid 1800s. 

 

The entire point i was trying to make is there was a ton of inhabited land, villages and towns from where people were expelled and fled from, and they wnated to go back but weren't allowed to

 

Taxis entire argument revolves around the UN partition plan - if the arabs didn't want to lose everything they should have said yes, but he ignores that Israel too ignored the UN when the UN told Israel to let people move back to thier towns and homes.

 

Again, I respect you and appreciate what you said about not going back to the well of history to re-adjudicate everything, but just like we cant deny that Jews were unjustly expelled from Arab countries, we cant deny that the same happened to Palestinians, and the only reason I say this is if someone is really interested in finding a solution its about being fair to everyone - the people that lost their homes and towns and land, as well as to the Israelis who live there today who played no part in those people being disposessed. I get frustrated by the way Taxi speaks because it purports this myth that the reason we have his conflict is because muslims hate jews. there are real reasons why we're where we are today and if someone really wants to solve things u have to try to address as many of the injustices as possible. what doesnt work is nonsense like taxi pushed which was to say arabs werent really expelled, jews owned all of the land in the partition plan anyway, which is just not true. 

 

 

 

Jews were thrown out of all the Arab nations, including the West Bank and Gaza Strip in 1948. Post-war, why is it always a situation of Israel always having to give up all their gains and get nothing in return of their losses. Very odd for the winning nation to walk away with less than they started with, especially after a defensive war.

 

Israel has no obligation to surrender their nation to an Arab majority. The majority of Jewish citizens in Israel are descended from people who fled from Arab and Muslim lands. Over time, and especially post-war, borders change. Why is Israel the only one still expected to give up a border from a war that happened 80 years ago. Dispossession is horrible, but so are most aspects of war. The brutality of the Arab-initiated wars has been felt on both sides.

 

The Palestinians, unlike any other people in history, inherit the "refugee" title. Anyone, or their descendants,  who had been in what is now Israel for 2 years or more is a refugee. That's an absurd definition. You could literally have someone who is the 1/64th descendant of a migrant worker claiming they have more rights to a person who's been in Israel for many generations.

[RomanPer]

31 minutes ago, Taxi said:

 

Jews were thrown out of all the Arab nations, including the West Bank and Gaza Strip in 1948. Post-war, why is it always a situation of Israel always having to give up all their gains and get nothing in return of their losses. Very odd for the winning nation to walk away with less than they started with, especially after a defensive war.

 

Israel has no obligation to surrender their nation to an Arab majority. The majority of Jewish citizens in Israel are descended from people who fled from Arab and Muslim lands. Over time, and especially post-war, borders change. Why is Israel the only one still expected to give up a border from a war that happened 80 years ago. Dispossession is horrible, but so are most aspects of war. The brutality of the Arab-initiated wars has been felt on both sides.

 

The Palestinians, unlike any other people in history, inherit the "refugee" title. Anyone, or their descendants,  who had been in what is now Israel for 2 years or more is a refugee. That's an absurd definition. You could literally have someone who is the 1/64th descendant of a migrant worker claiming they have more rights to a person who's been in Israel for many generations.

 

Their spouses also inherit status, regardless of the birth place.

[Taxi]

51 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Their spouses also inherit status, regardless of the birth place.

 

The Palestinians want not only what they had, but what they could have had, in a best case scenario, plus they don't want to give anything up or compensate Israel/Jews for their losses. 

 

Arabs invade the West Bank and Jerusalem in 1948 and expel all the Jews....that's Arab land for eternity, even thought they lost the land less than 20 years later. Tough nuts to the Jewish population.

 

Arabs lose land in what is now Israel, anyone who'd been there for 2 years, their spouses, and their descendants have an eternal right to go back there. Not only can they go back to the homes, which were largely huts and old stone houses, on state owned land, that no longer exist and owned by a state that no longer exists, but also they would have built a large and flourishing home to millions, even though they didn't actually do that when they were in the land. So they get all the land that was around those old huts.

Edited June 14 by Taxi

[Canuck Surfer]

I am travelling at the moment.

 

I can suggest with certainty people in these lands under question? Understand what groups like Hamas are.  The poor, those with nowhere to turn? Take what they can must to survive. Yes sometimes from such organizations. Life is hard.  There is an absolute stranglehold & the noose can be pretty tight.

 

The middle class leave, protest, sometimes die. Are educated, travel, see what lives people can have in other parts of the world. A few succumb. Why? Try to take care of parents, family. Save their dreams, a family home? Most are still devout Muslim. Yet want to choose whether to wear a Hijab, a Burqa. To fast, dress as they wish, have autonomy. Believe in a spirit which isn't congruous with obligations. They want no part of extremism! Particularly not violence, corruption. None...  

 

The Arab Spring came (too) early to Gaza. 

 

The Arab Spring did not offer what most wanted when & wherever they took part.

[Taxi]

On 6/13/2024 at 6:01 PM, RomanPer said:

 

You can't have it both ways. Just because Jews owned 6.6% land doesn't mean that the remaining 93.4% was owned by Arabs. It simply isn't true. Majority of that land was uninhibited and not owned by individuals. I can also bring up that most of that 55% of land allocated to Israel was the swamp or the dessert.

 

To add to this, a lot of the land was owned by Turks and not Arabs. The British used the term "Arab", but in reality it meant all non-Jews. It included Turks, Armenians, Circassians, Kurds, etc..And yes, much of the land purchased by Jews was on the coast, which had been largely unused. These were the findings of the Peel Commission in 1936:

 

Quote

The shortage of land is due less to purchase by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population. The Arab claims that the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamps and uncultivated when it was bought.

 

As far as state land goes, it's a similar situation to what goes on in BC. Individuals don't own the roads connecting towns, the beaches, rivers, etc... And generally, only land that is cultivated will be private land. For example, in BC:

 

https://ltsa.ca/about-ltsa/ltsa-mandate/bc-real-estate-facts/#:~:text=Crown land comprises about 94,Federal Crown land comprises 1%.

 

Quote

Crown land comprises about 94% of the total geographic area of British Columbia, and about 5% of land in British Columbia is privately owned. Federal Crown land comprises 1%.

 

Does that mean if BC collapsed, the entire population currently living here should only be entitled to 5% of the land?

[Optimist Prime]

Quote

Israeli military claims to have killed 500 Hamas militants in Rafah military operations since early May

From CNN's Tamar Michaelis and Mohammed Tawfeeq

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) on Monday claimed its military operations in Rafah have killed more than 500 Hamas militants since early May.

The IDF also said that hundreds of buildings in the southern Gaza city were rigged with explosives but without giving further details. In addition to that, the Israeli military’s forces located and destroyed 230 tunnel shafts including 100 in the Philadelphi Corridor, it said.

“We have caused severe damage to Hamas’ Rafah Brigade. Of the 4 Rafah Battalions, 2 are currently at medium level of operational functioning and 2 are at a low level of operational functioning,” the IDF said in a statement. 

CNN is not able to independently confirm these claims made by the IDF.

“We will continue our operations until we have decisively destroyed the Rafah Brigade,” the IDF added.

 

[Optimist Prime]

2 hours ago, Taxi said:

Does that mean if BC collapsed, the entire population currently living here should only be entitled to 5% of the land?

Let us not ever find out the answer to this because it is a simple answer: if BC Collapsed we would be in a de facto state of war both within and from outside BC to determine the answer to your question. Don't start wars, no one wins and generally the folks who think they will benefit from war will perish in the tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands, depending on the breadth and width of said war.

[Optimist Prime]

orange: Full Control of Palestinian Authority, makes up 18% of the West Bank
blue: Joint Control between Israel and the PA, makes up 22% of the West Bank

light purple: Entirely under Israeli control, 60% of the West Bank.

red: east Jerusalem entirely controlled by Israel since being annexed in 1980, claimed by Palestinians. 

 

interesting map I have seen a lot but its back in the news this morning. 

[CBH1926]

Vandalizing public property in an attempt to get your point across is stupid.

Definitely doesn’t get you more support from those that are on the fence.

https://abc7chicago.com/post/chicagos-buckingham-fountain-vandalized-closed-notice-300-columbus/14988571/

[RWMc1]

I was watching an interview but forgot to take note of the person and the channel.

 

Apparently after Hamas is defeated and its tunnel networks removed in Rafah the IDF will move on to a second phase of eliminating Hamas and Islamic Jihad militants from the rest of the population. This person said it could take another year. I wonder how that plays out logistically?

[Bob Long]

8 hours ago, RWMc1 said:

I was watching an interview but forgot to take note of the person and the channel.

 

Apparently after Hamas is defeated and its tunnel networks removed in Rafah the IDF will move on to a second phase of eliminating Hamas and Islamic Jihad militants from the rest of the population. This person said it could take another year. I wonder how that plays out logistically?

 

I wonder how many have already fled and are sitting comfortably in places like Egypt and Iran? Maybe part of the strategy is controlling the borders and making it hard for them to return? 

[RWMc1]

3 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

I wonder how many have already fled and are sitting comfortably in places like Egypt and Iran? Maybe part of the strategy is controlling the borders and making it hard for them to return? 

 

Probably all the top guys fled long time ago and abandoned their underlings.

 

Eliminating all the tunnel networks will definitely help with that. Plus eliminating the underground munitions factories will help to deter future terror attacks similar to Oct.7.

[Elias Pettersson]

New head of Canadian Human Rights Commission investigated over allegations of anti-Israel activity (msn.com)

 

New head of Canadian Human Rights Commission investigated over allegations of anti-Israel activity

[Canuck Surfer]

While the UN, and many others (rightfully) accused Israelis of blocking humanitarian aid?

 

There is also the UN acknowledging, as I posted months ago, that a great deal of aid is stolen by militia's; primarily Hamas.

 

 

[SilentSam]

The protests are going too far ,

disrupting people’s lives where they rest, live,  and commute for work and services IS going to far.

Peaceful protesting does not seem to exist when protesters are agited and pushing their objectives .

Hiding their faces like bandits does not help.  

They become Terroristic.

 

A tipping point is coming.  
 

 

 

Edited June 27 by SilentSam